Guan Gong is allowed, why not Shugden?

[Namdrol]

Changkya Khutukhtu was the spiritual head of the Gelug lineage of Tibetan Buddhism in Inner Mongolia during the Qing dynasty, his current incarnation was reborn in 1980 in Tsongkha region, was ordained at an early age and came to India as a refugee in 1998. He was formally recognized by Dalai Lama on 11 August 1998 and now is residing in Drepung Monastery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changkya_Khutukhtu
).

Changkya Khutukhtu and the monks in his ladrang recently consecrated pictures of Chinese Deity Guan Gong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yu) for free distribution.

Guan Gong is obviously a worldly spirit, he was a warrior which killed many during the battle in the actual history which was later fictionalized into "Romance of the Three Kingdom" in China.

Now, this is obviously a worldly spirit, and his pictures were consecrated by a high lama for free distribution to the public, why is this allowed but not the other "worldly spirit" called Dorje Shugden?

[DS Star]

Dear Namdrol,

Thank you for this post.

Before I was told by my friend, who is painter and a Tibetan Buddhist from another lineage, that his guru who is a Rinpoche asked him to draw the Guang Gong image and consecrated it for all to worshipped at their center. I was puzzled at that time as I only know Guang Gong as a protector for Chinese Mahayana Buddhists.

Your question is valid; yes Guang Gong is definitely a wordly spirit and why is he being 'promoted' by this Gelug lineage master to be worshipped?

Well, isn't Nechung also a worldly spirit?

Now the question is why another 'Chinese' related Dharma Protector?

I really wonder why all these drama about Dorje Shugden started only with HH 14th Dalai Lama, not his earlier incarnations?

Perhaps someone have all the answers...

[DharmaSpace]

this is very interesting. Well Dorje Shugden is no mere spirit as the line of incarnations are elite monks and realised practitioners like Panchen Sonam Dragpa, Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, Birwapa and the list goes on and on.... etc, Dorje Shugden equals Manjushri.

If the spirit of Guan Yu is put into the panthoen of a deity and put into service for the Buddha Dharma, thats wonderful he will be able to collect huge amounts of merits to be enlightened.   

[Ensapa]

Hi there,

Guan Yu is regarded by many chinese as a bodhisattva as he only killed those who were cruel during the war and he spared the innocent. During the Qing dynasty, he was enthroned as the principal Dharma protector for the emperors instead of a Tibetan Dharmapala. You can see his picture in many Qing dynasty thangkas as well.

in wiki:

In Chinese Buddhism, Guan Yu is revered by most practicing Buddhists as Sangharama Bodhisattva (simplified Chinese: ?; traditional Chinese: ?,; pinyin: Qíelán Púsà) a protector of the Buddhist dharma. Sangharama in Sanskrit means 'community garden' (sangha, community + arama, garden) and thus 'monastery'. Sangharama actually refers to a group of devas and spirits who guard Buddhist monasteries, the dharma, and the faith itself. However, over time and as an act of syncreticism, Guan Yu was seen as a representative sangharama guardian of the temple and the garden in which it stands. His statue is usually located on the far left of the main shrine, opposite his counterpart, Skanda.

According to Buddhist legends, in 592, Guan Yu manifested himself one night before Ch'an Master Zhiyi, the founder of the Tiantai school of Buddhism, along with a retinue of spiritual beings. Zhiyi was then in deep meditation on Yuquan Hill () when he was distracted by Guan Yu's presence. Guan Yu then requested the master to teach him about the dharma. After receiving Buddhist teachings from the master, Guan Yu took refuge in the triple gems and also requested the Five Precepts. Henceforth, it is said that Guan Yu made a vow to become a guardian of temples and the dharma. Legends also claim that Guan Yu assisted Zhiyi in the construction of the Yuquan Temple (), which still stands today.

However, he is still unenlightened although many chinese people would like to believe otherwise.

Regarding worshipping unenlightened Dharma protectors, there are also many other unenlightened protectors that are being propitiated, such as Nechung, Dorje Yudrönma, Rahula, etc, whose origins clearly explain that they are not enlightened. It seems that CTA does prefer to take advice from unenlightened protectors as I have never heard them seek advice from Mahakala, Kalarupa or Setrap. Maybe in that way they are trying to send a message to people that Dorje Shugden is enlightened? haha

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks for sharing this. I had not heard of Guan Gong til now. You never know what new things you learn on this forum! i am curious why Tibetan Buddhists like Changkya Khutukhtu and DS Star's friend would promote this Guan Gong, especially as he is not enlightened, even though the wikipedia article says that he was a Bodhisattva. From my cursory reading about Guan Gong/Guan Yu, it seems like he was a warrior, which is so contrary to being a Buddhist. So I don’t quite get why Guan Gong is said to be a Dharma Protector.

Why doesn’t Changkya Khutukhtu promote Dorje Shugden instead? After all, Mongolia is open to Dorje Shugden practice. See this article about Guru Deva Rinpoche’s Monastery Amarbayasgalant in Mongolia http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=104

[Galen]

All this while, I always thought that Guan Gong is practiced by the Taoist. And not part of Buddhism. But with the mixture of chinese culture with chinese beliefs and buddhism, it has now being accepted as part of Buddhism as thought by many.

However, I still don't get why a Mongolian Rinpoche from a Tibetan school of Buddhism would promote Guan Gong. Is there a significance or a connection?

Like what Namdrol said, if Guan GOng, who is a worldly spirit, can be promoted and consecrated by a Rinpoche, why not Dorje Shugden by DS practitioners?

[triesa]

I think one of the reasons why Changkya Khutukhtu consecrated pictures of Guan Gong for free distribution even though Guan Gong is not an enlightened protector could be that some people would have more affinity with Guan Gong from their level of mind of perceiving protectors. That is the only reason I could think of.

On the other hand, could Changkya Khutukhtu an anti-shugden lama?

[DharmaSpace]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changkya_Khutukhtu#List_of_claimed_incarnations

This is what I gleaned from the net. I like what you said Triesa some beings can be benefitted by Guan Gong, yes i think there is a 'market' for everyone sorry lack of a better word.

[michaela]

This is indeed an interesting post.  The knowledge I have on Guan Yu is from the story of Three Kingdom literature.  I don't see any reference of him manifesting as Dharma Protector of any sorts:  mundane or let alone supra mundane.  He has killed a lot of people.  From the story of the Three Kingdom, I don't see any of the actors showed any enlightened qualities.  But some of them did show a great level of intelligence in war strategy and Guan Yu can be commented as a soldier with integrity and self control in the standard set at the time.  He did kill a lot of people, and I do not see any indication that it is out of the spirit of Bodhicitta other than defending his country.

In my current level, I don't know what have become of Guan Yu after he died.  Whether he become a worldly god, or a spirit.  But this is what I do know.  Many Chinese people worship him.  I saw his images everywhere from the traditional chinese temples, restaurants, peoples' home, etc.  People have been asking him for wealth and protection for a long time.  But when asked why are they doing that, the reasoning that I have been getting area far from a logical explanation such as:  he has been worshipped for a long time.  Look at that restaurant, they have Guan Yu image and has good businessness, etc.

So I guess the act of Changkya Khutukhtu to concecrate the picture of Guan Yu is more for the benefit of other people who worship him.  So that these people received blessings and plant the seed for them to practice Dharma.

Back to the original question, why Guan Yu is allowed and DS is not allowed.  DS is clearly an enlightened protector - the more his practice is surpressed, the more his devotees speak up against the ban and try to promote DS.  It also forced people to think deeply as to why we are invoking DS in the first place.

While for Guan Yu, I don't see why we should put effort to make all this commotion because it is not him that we would like to promote as Dharma Protectors.  The arguments would have been very weak.

[DharmaDefender]

All this while, I always thought that Guan Gong is practiced by the Taoist. And not part of Buddhism. But with the mixture of chinese culture with chinese beliefs and buddhism, it has now being accepted as part of Buddhism as thought by many.

However, I still don't get why a Mongolian Rinpoche from a Tibetan school of Buddhism would promote Guan Gong. Is there a significance or a connection?

Like what Namdrol said, if Guan GOng, who is a worldly spirit, can be promoted and consecrated by a Rinpoche, why not Dorje Shugden by DS practitioners?

Only reason I can think of is familiarity. Perhaps Changkya Khutukhtu wants to break in to China, and promoting a deity with a Chinese background is one way of doing that. The Lama is Mongolian and as far as Im aware, the Chinese have awareness of Mongolian culture. That already helps. However, the Chinese are sceptical of Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps theyll be less sceptical of so-called Lamaism if they see a Chinese deity has gained acceptance.

[DharmaDefender]

Gah cant edit my previous post...

I just wanted to add that if that turns out to be case (and anyway Im just hypothesising), then its another instance of a lamas skilful means to bring Dharma to the masses. Who woulda thunk to promote a Taoist/Chinese Mahayana/literature-based deity, to bring the Vajrayana path into China?

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Dharma Defender

That is a good hypothesis regarding the promotion of this Chinese deity. As Changkya Khutukhtu was previously the spiritual head of the Gelug lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, I would imagine that he would be a Shugden practitioner. However, as Namdrol says, this incarnation is in Drepung and I would presume that he is therefore not permitted to practice Dorje Shugden, at least not publicly. So while he cannot directly promote Dorje Shugden, one way would be to promote a Chinese deity so that it would be easier to introduce Dharma Protectors like Dorje Shugden later when the ban is lifted or fades away.

[Barzin]

This is rather interesting... Now i am getting confused.  Why Guan Gong?  I am sure Guan Gong will have his market and I know many chinese who knows about this deity.  And we all know that he is not enlightened but is a well known, well respected warrior.  Even though he is not enlightened he is well received by many chinese and he is being prayed to. 

Now in the language we know, he is a dharma protector just like some protectors that we know of eg.Nechung etc.  Since they are serving the Buddha dharma, they sure gain an enormous amount of merits, and by the growing amount of people propitiate him; will he gain enlightenment in the future? or they are like the lamas, take emanation in another image/form as an enlightened being but if you trace back, you'll find his previous reincarnation is Guan Gong.  Do unlightened dharma protector get sort of promote or they stay the same?   just like Ne chung, almost the whole of Tibet, high lamas have been rely on him for long.. will he have a chance to be enlightened? 

[whitelion]

Guan Gong is one of the most popular taoism deity in Asia, that's a saying that whoever pray to him will get his blessing and protection from evil spirit disturbances, some of the Mahayana school actually propitiate him as a dharma protector. This is the first time I heard about Guan Gong have some link with Vajrayana school.

We have learn we shouldn't take refuge with unenlightened beings such as local deity or spirit or make shrine for them. But Nechung actually have his own chapel in Daramsara, this is not the only time CTA slapping their own face.

DS have proven by hundred of thousand peoples, Lamas, Geshes or living Buddhas, that he is fully enlighten and for who pray to him will only bring benefits, but he is ban. Guan Gong is known to be famous unenlightent deity but he is allow or ok to promote to the public ??!! Will Guan Gong bring us to enlighten ? DS previous reincarnation -- Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was a monk, a Buddhism scholar yet Guan Gong was a warrior that kills thousand, and he is fine to propiciate ? This is so funny, we can pray to a killer for good future but we should abandon Manjushri. Think about it CTA...

[Vajraprotector]

Not only in China among the Taoist/Han culture, there were also old monasteries in Mongolia, built in the early 18th century dedicated to Guan Gong, in areas such as Khovd, Zavkhan and Ulaanbaatar. 

I personally think that which deity a lama promote is a matter of personal choice, most of the time due to affinity and there should never be a restriction or ban towards a certain deity for reasons that are not understood even by scholars and masters who could debate the nature of emptiness or phenomena!

There are sources that indicate Sangharama as a Bodhisattva, but again, there are also many sources that indicate Dorje Shugden as an emanation of Manjushri Bodhisattva as written and spoken by High Lama, including His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama himself. But why are they neglected now and the focus became the few issues (again, the reasons are not convincing nor logical) that might arise due to the "worship" of this protector?

If worship of unenlightened/mundane protectors bring about disaster, threat to His Holiness' life, and the causes of Tibet, then we should dethrone all Jigten Chokyong (worldly protectors) in Tibet and all of them in Tibetan Buddhism.  Remove all protector houses for Gyel, Se, and Tsen in Tibet and India, starting of course with the most famous mundane dharmapala Nechung.