Hindu Goddess predicts for Dalai Lama

[Mana]

This is an interesting video. His Holiness the Dalia Lama is given advice by a young girl who is considered an incarnation of a Hindu Goddess. See for yourself and formulate your own thoughts on the prediction.
Nechung takes trance according to a very zealous Geshe Dorje, that Dalai Lama will visit China, then everything will be ok. Geshe Dorje states when Dalai Lama visits China people will be so happy that they die. Geshe Dorje perhaps due to language barriers or over-enthusiasm states emphatically people will die from happiness. The video overall is interesting. But you can see to understand for yourself what is the message.

Admin

A Hindu goddess incarnate makes predictions for Dalai Lama. Take a careful look:

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=11831

or

Tib will be Free in 2012	Small | Large

[dsiluvu]

It's really funny to see HHDL also known as Chenrezig would need to see a "Hindu Goddess" to receive blessings and predictions. Perhaps it is to a peace the spirit goddess. And isn't she an unenlightened saint. Why would Buddhist believe an unenlightened saint's predictions? So it is ok that HHDL honour this unenlightened saint/spirit but it is not OK to practice Dorje Shugden? This is a huge contradiction from the reason given for banning Dorje Shugden practice which make no sense. I find this video quite disturbing and makes me wonder what has Buddhism degenerated in to?

HHDL's reliance on the state oracle Nechung before making any political decision...who is also a spirit makes you wonder what's up with that yet they ban their own people from practicing Dorje Shugden?

Well it is 2012... I wonder when will HHDL go to China this year? Something to keep an eye out eh.

[DharmaDefender]

It's really funny to see HHDL also known as Chenrezig would need to see a "Hindu Goddess" to receive blessings and predictions. Perhaps it is to a peace the spirit goddess. And isn't she an unenlightened saint. Why would Buddhist believe an unenlightened saint's predictions? So it is ok that HHDL honour this unenlightened saint/spirit but it is not OK to practice Dorje Shugden? This is a huge contradiction from the reason given for banning Dorje Shugden practice which make no sense. I find this video quite disturbing and makes me wonder what has Buddhism degenerated in to?

HHDL's reliance on the state oracle Nechung before making any political decision...who is also a spirit makes you wonder what's up with that yet they ban their own people from practicing Dorje Shugden?

Well it is 2012... I wonder when will HHDL go to China this year? Something to keep an eye out eh.

Amen to that!

Apparently every Tom, Dick and Harry can now take trance and the Dalai Lama will listen to them, even "holding [their] hands in a sign of respect". But Dorje Shugden, nope, he's banned because he's an unenlightened spirit. Chenrezig needs a goddess to tell him he will have bad health?

Ironic, hypocritical, contradictory...IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. What the video does show is the Dalai Lamas followers operate on blind faith, and rely on superstition...and the Tibetan tendency to only ever listening to what they want to hear.

On the upshot, the little girls brilliant at PR and saying all the right things in a Tibetan gathering!

[kris]

How interesting.... How interesting that it is OK to practice Hindu but not Dorje Shugden. Don't get me wrong, I am nothing against Hindu. In fact, Dalai Lama has been promoting non-violence between religions, but why practice "violence" with Dorje Shugden practitioners?

[triesa]

Respecting different religions is great, I personally know and have seen a few Hindus high officials in Indian receiving blessing from Tibetan lamas, to them, a blessing is a blessing. It is great to witness that, to be honest. So I guess, same applied here for Dalai Lama to receive blessing from a "Claimed Hindu saint", even though she is a little girl only. It is always a practice of humility for scenerio like this, which buddhism focuses much on humility, particularly in the Gelug traditions.

But I want to correct on the video which said that the date and itinerary of the Dalai Lama's escape route was given by the oracle "Nechung". We all know from reliable sources that the escape route, date and time from Tibet to India was prophesized by Dorje Shugden. Lobsang Yeshe was the monk who went to consult the oracle of DS and was advised to tell the Dalai Lama to leave the summer palace immediately through the southern route, as the Chinese had prepared everything for invasion. Dalai Lama was even carrying the scared thangka of DS loaned to him from his Guru Trijang Rinpoche during the whole escape. See the article and video below.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1515.0

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048

Definitely, it was not Nechung who determinded the exact date and itinerary of the escape route of Dalai Lama.

The predictions by this little girl that Dalai Lama will be going to China and people including the Chinese will be very happy to see Dalai Lama in 2012, is far from happening, as what I can see.

[icy]

I personally think that HHDL is playing a political game with the Hindus when he went to see her and hear her prediction.  It clearly shows how humble HHDL is by lowering his status and intelligence just to do that. After all isn't He Chenrizig.  Similarly with the state oracle Nechung, logically HHDL should steer clear of unenlightened oracles and protectors but He consults them.  Isn't this all a political game?

[Ensapa]

It seems to me that HHDL will propitiate unenlightened beings to pacify situations. Nechung is from the Nyigmas and he continuously consults him even tho he has given so many wrong predictions over time and so many times at that, and now he even visits and also receives and accepts the blessings of a little girl who claims to be a goddess and on the other hand condemms Dorje Shugden and bans his practice...

I am guessing that he still consults Nechung because he wants to appease the Nyigmas who has been sidelined since Gelugpa became big and widespread. It is HHDL's way of saying that they are not forgotten and not sidelined, and that he still cares for them and their development. If he did not do that I could guess that they have one more excuse to use and say that they have been excluded from the government as well as by the Dalai Lama. HHDL probably forsees that and consults Nechung on a regular basis just to stop and prevent that excuse from being used.

Similarly, CTA has run in some sensitive issues with the Indian government of late, most notably the Karmapa money issue. Obviously again, these things make the Indian government uncomfortable with CTA and the Tibetans in general and something has to be done to make the Indian govt less vary and suspicious of CTA and the Tibetans. From how I see it, this is the best way to show them that CTA is part of them now as HHDL cannot directly visit Hindu temples for obvious reasons but he can grant an audience to a little girl who is the reincarnation of a goddess to show that he is one and the same with the indian people to diffuse the tension.

To me the political reasons/move is quite obvious for both instances, HHDL has to do what he has to do to appease certain parties because of his position and also of his duty to the Tibetan people. I am not sure anyone else can do the same and manage so many things at once.

[beggar]

There is nothing new in this contradiction. Look at the very basis of the ban on Dorje Shugden - the advice, apparently, comes from Nechung, an unenlightened dharma protector, who is universally known to have been a very powerful, damaging spirit, Pehar, which was subdued by Guru Rinpoche. This is turned entirely on its head - an unenlightened protector (spirit) giving advice about not praying to an ENLIGHTENED protector, Dorje Shugden. Is the Dalai Lama really so stupid as to not see this logic? It cannot be. The whole situation is very contradictory.

There's more information here about the absurdness of how the Dalai Lama and his followers are choosing to propitiate the advice and blessings of a spirit over praying to Dorje Shugden…. http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=3934
It doesn't take much to see the glaring contradictions.

[yontenjamyang]

I agree with Ensapa that this is a political appeasement to the Indian Government. Whether the Dalai Lama takes the advise seriously is not important. It is important to note that high lamas do not need to take all the advises from the protectors as the protectors are below the lamas. The trance and the advise are more for the lamas' followers as it is our karma that we believe the protectors more than the lamas.
The protectors assist the lamas as the lamas are in human bodies and the protectors perhaps do the deeds of the lamas.
In this case hence whether the protector is enlightened or not is also not important as HHDL just want the followers to be convinced. The message here is multiple. For some, it seem the Dalai Lama listen to the goddess and unenlightened protector and the message is as what is conveyed.

To others, it seem ridiculous that the Dalai Lama listens to goddesses and unenlightened protectors like Nechung and ban an enlightened protector ie Dorje Shugden. To me it is always the case that the Dalai Lama and DS is working together for some bigger cause.
It is important for us to have faith in both the HHDL and DS. Just practice Dharma and do not criticise what we do not understand.

[pgdharma]

Nothing makes sense now. How can HHDL (an enlightened being and also Chenrezig) banned Dorje Shugden(an enlightened being) practice yet received blessings and predictions from a Hindu Saint and consults Nechung (both are unenlightened beings). All these may look absurd but do we think that HHDL is so stupid as not to see the logic?

I personally think that HHDL is teaching us compassion and tolerance. By receiving blessings and predictions from this Hindu goddess he is lowering his status and practicing humility. As for consulting Nechung, I do agree with Ensapa that HHDL wants to appease the Nyingma who has been sideline. If not, who in the right sense would listen to an oracle who has given wrong predictions over time? I  believe that  HHDL and DS have bigger plans for the future.

[hope rainbow]

The Dalai Lama says himself that the little girl is a saint, why shall I doubt that?
There has only ever been one object of speech that needs decoded reading when listening to the Dalai Lama, it is when his Holiness speaks of Dorje Shugden.
In no way do I feel that I may doubt the Dalai Lama's intentions or words for any other matter than the matter of Dorje Shugden for which HH's words need to be analyzed and understood the best we can, and with respect and humility anyway.
This little girl may be the emanation of a goddess or not, I don't know, but the Dalai Lama says she is a saint, so I'll go with that.

On what she predicted, on on what the oracles predicted:
(my thoughts only)

Why do China needs to pacify Tibet?
They have many reasons for that, and besides the obvious spiritual reasons (that may not appear to some Chinese), I can see two main reasons: (1) China does not want to deal with in-land terrorism, and also (2) Tibet has extraordinary reserves of precious metal in its mountains and one of the world's biggest natural reserve of uranium too.

There is always the possibility for the Dalai Lama to go back to China-Tibet, and in fact on a purely political level, this could be a smart move from the Chinese authorities to do that at a time when the Chinese authorities believe that his Holiness does not have much longer to live, so they can control HH's return for a short period of time only, and "use" the Dalai Lama to pacify the Tibet region before his passing. In doing so, they would expect that the independence forces within and outside Tibet do not turn violent after the Dalai Lama's passing.

See here:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1407.msg18110#msg18110

Also, It is totally understandable that many are holding on to their human existence in the hope of seeing Chenrezig return to Tibet so that they can leave their bodies with a mind a little bit more at peace. I totally understand that.

[Ensapa]

Nothing makes sense now. How can HHDL (an enlightened being and also Chenrezig) banned Dorje Shugden(an enlightened being) practice yet received blessings and predictions from a Hindu Saint and consults Nechung (both are unenlightened beings). All these may look absurd but do we think that HHDL is so stupid as not to see the logic?

I personally think that HHDL is teaching us compassion and tolerance. By receiving blessings and predictions from this Hindu goddess he is lowering his status and practicing humility. As for consulting Nechung, I do agree with Ensapa that HHDL wants to appease the Nyingma who has been sideline. If not, who in the right sense would listen to an oracle who has given wrong predictions over time? I  believe that  HHDL and DS have bigger plans for the future.

Well, if you havent realize yet he has never consulted the enlightened protectors so far because he does not need to as he is already enlightened. There are several other enlightened protectors that can take trance but why not them? surely they are so much better compared to the unenlightened ones. Imagine if he banned an unenlightened protector and the protector is unable to take it and start destroying the Dharma instead. The Ban, in this political context, is also another way of HHDL appeasing the other traditions who know of Dorje Shugden's power and is intimidated by him. So from this angle, we can see the ban as a pacifying move for the other traditions, while sacrificing Gelug for the sake of the other lineages. When this no longer becomes an issue, I am sure that HHDL will unban the practice and reinstall Dorje Shugden as an enlightened protector in Ganden, Sera and Drepung and take up his practice again.

[DharmaSpace]

It could be true that the Dalai Lama is appeasing the Indian Government and people.

I think it is also highly possible for the Dalai Lama to show his reliance on so many oracles of unenlightened beings like Nechung and the Hindu goddess to pave the way for the Dalai Lama institution to be discontinued. Perhaps the Dalai Lama institution is not so necessary for the future, otherwise why would the Dalai Lama seen to be making so many big mistakes like allowing Trijang Rinpoche to carry on with the Dorje Shugden practise for instance, starting the ban that split Tibetan, saying that his gurus are wrong (if the gurus are wrong, then buddhism can also be wrong etc)

[Ensapa]

It could be true that the Dalai Lama is appeasing the Indian Government and people.

I think it is also highly possible for the Dalai Lama to show his reliance on so many oracles of unenlightened beings like Nechung and the Hindu goddess to pave the way for the Dalai Lama institution to be discontinued. Perhaps the Dalai Lama institution is not so necessary for the future, otherwise why would the Dalai Lama seen to be making so many big mistakes like allowing Trijang Rinpoche to carry on with the Dorje Shugden practise for instance, starting the ban that split Tibetan, saying that his gurus are wrong (if the gurus are wrong, then buddhism can also be wrong etc)

Yeah but on one hand this dosent really make sense as no matter what the Dalai Lama says, the Tibetans will always believe he is correct and that all of his actions can be justified. So personally it dosent really what the Dalai Lama does, because he will always have his reasons and that he will always be right. So even if the actions that he manifests like the ban for instance, all of his supporters will just take his word for it. If he really wanted to end the Dalai Lama institution, he would have disrobed immediately or went for a long term retreat to show his disintrest in the position.

It may appear that HHDL is making a lot of mistakes to us, but perhaps to higher beings he is not making mistakes and is doing all of these to prepare the groundwork for something huge to come in time. It might not be solely political in nature and could affect the world as we know it, but at our level all we can do is speculate based on what evidence we can gather and via logical thinking.

[Midakpa]

I agree with Icy and some of the forum posters that this is a political move on the part of His Holiness.  After all, the Tibetans are refugees in India and if a Hindu "Goddess" wishes to convey her predictions to him, it is only polite and diplomatic to receive her and thank her for her concern and kindness. Whether H.H. believes her or not is a different matter. I think the Dalai Lama is not only a great master, he is also a great politician.