Nechung caused the death of 13th Dalai Lama?

[harrynephew]

Hi all,

I browsed through youtube and found this link:

Dalai Lama and Nechung Oracle	Small | Large

When the video reached 00:28 it claims that Nechung through the oracle had given the 13th Dalai Lama the wrong medicine which caused the Dalai Lama's death the next day. I searched online and found no evidence to support this. Does anyone know if this claim is true?

[Galen]

I would not be surprised that Nechung gave the 13th Dalai Lama the wrong medicine. Over time, Nechung has net been accurate in his predictions and consultation results. But yet the Dalai Lama still uses him, even though everyone know that Nechung is an unenlightened being.

Nechung also nearly killed the 14th Dalai Lama because he asked the Dalai Lama to stay on in Tibet instead of fleeing as advised by Dorje Shugden. THe Dalai Lama may have been killed by the Chinese should he had listened to Nechung.

It is scary to know that decisions of the state is being made by consulting Nechung.

I'm sorry Harry Nephew cos I couldn't find hard evidence of who killed the 13th Dalai Lama.

[vajralight]

http://books.google.fr/books?id=3BPsOQe654IC&pg=PA514&lpg=PA514&dq=nechung+wrong+medecine&source=bl&ots=zY2BBYwH5e&sig=y4pm0XLvce5EUW6pG4m-AAezhDk&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=DFolT436MYSs0QXara3OCg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=nechung%20wrong%20medecine&f=false


Also:

http://bodhisharanam.org/index.php?id=The%20Thirteenth%20Dalai%20Lama-The%20Grande%20Finale.

On 17th November, the 13th Dalai Lama, already tired and distressed by the weak and inefficient conduct of his officials whom he had severely reprimanded in his Last Political Testament, was taken with a slight cold. But he did not show it. He knew he was the link of unity on which Tibet survived. He attended the Monlam Chernno and the people were relieved. But his health went from bad to worse. And he failed to attend Ganden Ngacho  the birth and death anniversary of Tsongkhapa  always attended by a Dalai Lama. This made the people suspected he was sick. But there was no way of knowing it.

Kunphel La, the last favourite of the Dalai Lama, took every precaution to conceal the truth. On 3rd December, the Dalai Lama's condition became critical. Kunphel La at once summoned the attendants and at 11 p.m. called the medium of Nechung Oracle who came at once, in a great hurry, without even putting on his ceremonial robes. That same night, the Nechung Oracle gave the Dalai Lama a powder medicine. As the medium came out, Jampa-la, the Dalai Lama's regular doctor, pointed out to the Nechung medium that the wrong medicine was being administered. Soon afterwards, the Nechung medium gave a second medicine according to the regular doctor's prescription. Both these medicines however, failed to improve the worsening condition of the Dalai Lama.

That morning, the government officials were informed. The Ganden Tripa, the Prime Minister, the Cabinet members and the other important officials immediately rushed to Kunphel La and requested for an audience with the Dalai Lama. Kunphel La refused them an audience. In the afternoon, the government officials were admitted to his audience. They unanimously pleaded for his life. But by then the Dalai Lama had lost his power of speech. That night at about 7.30 p.m. The Dalai Lama passed away."



Here you go,

vajra

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks Vajralight. There is so much controversy about Nechung that I really don’t know what to believe anymore. Nechung is an unenlightened Dharma Protector bound by Padmasambhava and has been the special advisor to the Dalai Lama via the State Oracle.

As has been previously mentioned, Nechung’s advice has been increasingly suspect over the years and this documented case of Nechung administering the wrong medication to the 13th Dalai Lama should ring alarm bells for the Dalai Lama, so why is the 14th Dalai Lama still listening to Nechung?

Yet, Nechung was the one who requested Lord Duldzin to become an uncommon Dharma Protector in future – specially to protect Nagarjuna’s middle view as taught by Tsongkhapa. And Nechung again reminded Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, the incarnation of Duldzin, of this sworn promise to manifest as a Dharma Protector. So why is Nechung telling the Dalai Lama that Dorje Shugden is evil? This is so contradictory.

[vajralight]

There is no controversy if you can consider that the Nechung who requested Dorje Shugden to manifest IS NOT THE NECHUNG that is consulted by the Dalai Lama. It might be that the DL consults a spirit now that IS NOT Nechung.


vajra

[Poonlarp]

Actually until today I still couldn't find my answer why DL consult for decisions from a spirit instead of an enlighten beings. Although Nechung is the one who contributed to the manifestation of Dorje Shugden, his attainment is yet to enlighten.

What vajra said is making sense, but how do we check it's not the same Nechung?

[DharmaSpace]

This is an excellent article on the changing
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=143

Mind you Nechung has been around since the time of Guru Rinpoche, and in serving the Buddha Dharma he has served close to 1000 years since he was bound by Guru RInpoche. I remember I was told that Nechung collected tremendous store of merits when he is serves the Buddha Dharma. So him giving up the mantle of the chief dharmapala to Dorje Shugden is because he is getting closer to enlightenment.

So Is Nechung incorrect in his predictions or pretending to be incorrect?

[Positive Change]

This is an excellent article on the changing
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=143

Mind you Nechung has been around since the time of Guru Rinpoche, and in serving the Buddha Dharma he has served close to 1000 years since he was bound by Guru RInpoche. I remember I was told that Nechung collected tremendous store of merits when he is serves the Buddha Dharma. So him giving up the mantle of the chief dharmapala to Dorje Shugden is because he is getting closer to enlightenment.

So Is Nechung incorrect in his predictions or pretending to be incorrect?

With what has been going on, talked about, accused of, speculated on, etc... I am more inclined to think of the latter as being the truth. Why? Well... the obvious inconsistencies for me personally points to either:

1. Nechung being unenlightened is truly unpredictable and is causing more harm then good but then again is Nechung not bound by oath to servitude and to protect the Buddha Dharma? Unless of course we believe Guru Rinpoche is not who he is...

OR

2. That in actual fact there is a combination and culmination of forces that are working in union, even though perceived as against or contradicts each other.

Hence, if we really delve into it and really ponder, there really is only ONE way to look at it! THINK about it!

[hope rainbow]

There is a peculiar relationship between Nechung, Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama.
Facts / questions:

1.

Nechung was the one who requested Lord Duldzin to become an uncommon Dharma Protector in future – specially to protect Nagarjuna’s middle view as taught by Tsongkhapa.

2.

And Nechung again reminded Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, the incarnation of Duldzin, of this sworn promise to manifest as a Dharma Protector.

3.

So why is Nechung telling the Dalai Lama that Dorje Shugden is evil? This is so contradictory.

It is contradictory indeed.
we could also add this information:

4.
When Nechung will get enlightened, which is predicted to happen soon, he will "pass on the relay" to Dorje Shugden. Why would this new Buddha give his seat to a "demon" or "worldly god"? Illogical again.

5.
The 13th Dalai Lama possibly took the decision to dissolve his winds and take rebirth so that he would be as young as possibly (as the 14th DL) for when Tibet would loose its sovereignty over the Chinese occupation. Well... the timing was just perfect on this aspect. (hint... )
Thus, did the Dalai Lama plan his passing away with the assistance of Nechung? Who knows?

6.
If Nechung was so clumsy as we often project, wouldn'he create so much demerit in the service of such high beings as His Holiness? Then how could he be at the verge of enlightenment?

[shugdenprotect]

Thank you all for the various angles of looking at the situation related to Nechung. I was especially tickled by the sharing of Hope Rainbow.

I would like to humbly share that the fact the Nechung is not an enlightened being, manipulation and mistakes can occur. Examples have already been listed: 1) the wrong administration of medication to the 13th Dalai Lama where some say that the oracle was possessed by a spirit and 2) the misguidance for the 14th Dalai Lama’s escape plan as unenlightened beings tend to have a “short-term” view.

As degeneration intensifies today, perhaps the room for mistakes of unenlightened beings will become bigger and that is why the time for an enlightened Protector has arrived.

Everything seem to all fit in for the Dharma. so, like it has been said before: as we do not have the wisdom to understand, we can develop the patience and humility to look out for the final result, which i trust will benefit many people.

[Zach]

There is no controversy if you can consider that the Nechung who requested Dorje Shugden to manifest IS NOT THE NECHUNG that is consulted by the Dalai Lama. It might be that the DL consults a spirit now that IS NOT Nechung.


vajra

A very interesting point 

[harrynephew]

Interesting points brought up by Rainbow indeed.

I would like to post another video clip of someone offering Tenshug to HHDL in Tsulakhang in Dharamsala. In the video the oracles took trance of Tseringma, Nechung(but of course with his dramatic entrance to the prayer hall) and another Deity (Gadong probably because the video didnt show much of him) offering Tenshug to the Dalai Lama as well.

Question is, why give wrong medicine to the 13th Dalai Lama and cause his demise and now this spirit king is requesting for HHDL to live long?

I'm confused!


Watch this folks!

http://youtu.be/NukDbESP-CE
	Small | Large

[DharmaSpace]

HN,
I do think Nechung prescribing the wrong medicine is on purpose. why? Well Nechung caused and created the conditions for Dorje Shugden to arise by 'using' - "for lack of a better word"  an enlightened being like Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen to rise up as Dorje Shugden.

So if Nechung can be wrong during the 13th Dalai Lama what makes us think he could not be wrong when he created the conditions for Dorje Shugden to arise? Just like if we doubt one LAMA, his lama is also implicated, what lama can escape from our criticism . Do share with me if you think my line of reasoning is incorrect. 

[WisdomBeing]

With regard to the hypothesis by vajralight that the deity taking trance in the Nechung Oracle is NOT Nechung, I am rather skeptical of this possibility because I do believe that HH the Dalai Lama is an emanation of Chenrezig, or at the very least, he is a high lama with clairvoyance. Therefore, he would surely know if the deity speaking through the oracle is Nechung or not. Isn’t that why oracles are only supposed to take trance when a High lama is around so that people can be sure what deity is entering the oracle. Otherwise false deities can enter the oracle and speak without us knowing any better.

[vajralight]

If the DL doesn't know the difference between a Buddha and a worldly spirit, as demonstrated in the case of Dorje Shugden, why should he be able to know the difference between a true worldly spirit Nechung and a fake one ??

PS Ofcourse I don't believe the DL is Avalokiteshvara, I'm with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso on this one...... sorry....