Dalai Lama: Osama bin Laden Deserves Compassion

[kris]

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/05/07/dalai-lama-osama-bin-laden-deserves-compassion/

Sometimes I find it rather difficult to accept: If Osama Bin Ladin, someone who had harmed and killed so many people, deserves compassion, then how about Dorje Shugden devotees?

From a spiritual point of view, HH Dalai Lama has the rights to deny a student, but as the secular leader, He should have compassion and let the Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy all secular benefits such as medical, traveling document, etc.

Now that He is not the secular leader anymore, He should advice the new Prime Minister, Dr Lobsang Sangay, to give all the citizens the equal rights to enjoy the benefits.

[yontenjamyang]

From a Buddhist point of view, all sentient beings deserve compassion.

Yes, even Osama bin Laden or Hitler.

I agree with you totally that the Dalai Lama should ask the new Prime Minister of the CTA Dr. Lobsang Sangay grant back the rights of Dorje Shugden practitioner.

If you ask Dorje Shugden practitioners if they are suffering, I think they would say yes. If you ask them if they hate the CTA, the answer is maybe. If you ask them if they hate the Dalai Lama, I think it would be NO. This is from their prospective.

From our prospective, we should have altruistic actions ie that the responsibility to relieve the sufferings of the Tibetan Shugdenites.

The Dalai Lama is compassionately challenging and provoking us. Trust and take action.

[biggyboy]

Sometimes I find it rather difficult to accept: If Osama Bin Ladin, someone who had harmed and killed so many people, deserves compassion, then how about Dorje Shugden devotees?

From a spiritual point of view, HH Dalai Lama has the rights to deny a student, but as the secular leader, He should have compassion and let the Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy all secular benefits such as medical, traveling document, etc.

It may seems hard to accept the fact that Osama bin Ladin do deserves compassion and so does the Dorje Shugden devotees.  Before we delve into it deeply, one must contemplate further as to why he was killed?  If one don't kill him for the sake of all's safety and well being, then doesn't this killing is an act of compassion by  foregoing one's life to benefit many people. 

Likewise, if one looks closer on the act of HH Dalai Lama  banning the practice of Dorje Shugden, isn't this also an act of compassion for all practitioners? ...if I may say so.  If it is not for the ban, do you think the DS practice and Buddhism would spread so fiery all over as now?  What would the situation be if HHDL has not ban it?...Would it spread that fast?  In my opinion, it would not as wide as compared to banning it.  That's how human mind works.  The furor of curiosity drives people wants to know more and hence interest may stir one's mind to read, learn and practice or at least imprints is created.

[jeremyg]

Everyone deserves compassion in buddhist philosophy. From the best people to have walked this planet, to the worst. We may not see it, but maybe the ban is the greatest act of compassion by the Dalai Lama, we do not know now. Only time will tell, if one day the ban gets lifted, and millions if not billions are connected with Dorje Shugden, or even have the seeds of Dorje Shugden planted in their mind, just even through hearing the name Dorje Shugden. Think

[hope rainbow]

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/05/07/dalai-lama-osama-bin-laden-deserves-compassion/

Sometimes I find it rather difficult to accept: If Osama Bin Ladin, someone who had harmed and killed so many people, deserves compassion, then how about Dorje Shugden devotees?

From a spiritual point of view, HH Dalai Lama has the rights to deny a student, but as the secular leader, He should have compassion and let the Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy all secular benefits such as medical, traveling document, etc.

Now that He is not the secular leader anymore, He should advice the new Prime Minister, Dr Lobsang Sangay, to give all the citizens the equal rights to enjoy the benefits.

Thank you for your post.

You are comparing HHDL preaching americans to have compassion towards Osama Ben Laden and Himself lacking compassion for a large portion of the Tibetans recognizing Dorje Shugden as a Buddha.

I wish to say this:

WHAT COMPASSION IS
Compassion is: I cannot possibly bear someone's suffering = I have compassion towards that someone.

THE LIMITATION OF COMPASSION
Compassion is limited to our understanding of suffering.
If we can't see the suffering, even if we love somebody, we can't develop compassion.

THE OBJECT OF OUR COMPASSION
We easily have compassion towards the beings we love or like (examples: my mother, my pet, my child...)
We do not have compassion towards the people we hate (examples: my enemies, my moody neighbor, Osama Bin Laden...). If we develop compassion towards the people we hate, we stop hating them.
When the people we hate do suffer, we do not have compassion, we actually rejoice, in the evil sense of rejoicing over someone that suffers (example: Osama Bin Laden).
If we can generate compassion towards Osama Bin Laden, he ceases to be our enemy! That is how we get rid of "Osama Bin Laden -my enemy", even if he remains "Osama Bin laden -a problem".
Then to all these people that we neither hate nor love, we have no compassion, we have indifference.
Thus the object of our compassion is limited to the beings we love or like, a rather small number of beings.

HOW TO INCREASE COMPASSION?
In the combination of 2 things:
1. THE SUFFERING: understand suffering more and more and at a spiritual level, beyond flesh and time.
2. THE OBJECT OF SUFFERING: develop equanimity so that our "love" can grow beyond our projections of "I like", "I don't like" and "I don't care", thus make the object of our compassion all sentient beings.

For HHDL, His compassion goes beyond the sufferings of this flesh, this life.
HHDL has equal compassion for Osama Bina laden, Donald Trump, you and me.
His compassion includes all beings, and thus all Tibetans. No doubt.
Why? because he has the qualities of equanimity and the full knowledge of all types of sufferings possible.
No doubt, HHDL has compassion for all, great compassion, compassion of a bodhisattva.

I can't tolerate the sufferings that a very large portion of the Tibetan population is experiencing because of the apartheid in place within the Tibetan community from a government level. I can't tolerate that.
At this point, I think we should direct our protests to the CTA who has now taken charge of the secular affairs and has the duty as an elected government to protect and serve all the members of the Tibetan community under its jurisdiction. From a secular point of view, all should be given access to schools, grocery stores, hospitals, etc... The CTA must stop the apartheid in the name of equality of rights, of religious freedom and of separation between the spiritual and the secular.

On a spiritual level, HHDL has the prerogative to not accept Dorje Shugden devotees to his talks, it is his right, for as long as they are able to practice religious freedom without discrimination.

[Positive Change]

I can't tolerate the sufferings that a very large portion of the Tibetan population is experiencing because of the apartheid in place within the Tibetan community from a government level. I can't tolerate that.
At this point, I think we should direct our protests to the CTA who has now taken charge of the secular affairs and has the duty as an elected government to protect and serve all the members of the Tibetan community under its jurisdiction. From a secular point of view, all should be given access to schools, grocery stores, hospitals, etc... The CTA must stop the apartheid in the name of equality of rights, of religious freedom and of separation between the spiritual and the secular.

On a spiritual level, HHDL has the prerogative to not accept Dorje Shugden devotees to his talks, it is his right, for as long as they are able to practice religious freedom without discrimination.

Well said HR... you hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what we need to do. HHDL "handing over the reigns" so to speak has "created" an opportunity for us to put the pressure on CTA through secular mean addressing secular affairs and we do not "go against" HHDL directly. HHDL still has the "right" to whomever comes to his talks/teachings but CTA does not have the right to discriminate against peoples who's beliefs are "different" from what is considered "accepted".

Most of CTA I here through the grapevine practices Dorje Shugden anyway... so why the hypocrisy and just give the vigilant and ballsy open practitioners of Dorje Shugden a break! I say we write in from all fronts and nag them to submission!

[jessicajameson]

This thread heavily links together with the "Four Very Important Questions" article. (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12232).

An extract of what I wrote:

"You have the Dalai Lama encouraging peaceful talks with China. Why not encourage peaceful talks with Shugden practitioners?

You have Tibetans fighting for a Free Tibet. What about Free Shugdenpas?"

As Kris has said, the Dalai Lama feels that Osama bin Laden deserves compassion. That's a fair statement. It's true, Osama bin Laden does deserve some compassion. The level of karmic repercussion's are two-fold. Those who suffered under the wrath of Osama bin Laden (did something terrible in their previous lives to receive such suffering), and what Osama bin Laden will suffer from creating suffering towards others (the future karmic effects).

In the same way, when HHDL implemented the DS ban - those who chose to follow suit and cause suffering towards other Shugdenpa's will suffer the karmic repercussions from creating CONFUSION, SUFFERING, PAIN and DEATH. Those who chose to bad-mouth HHDL will suffer the karmic repercussion from speaking against a holy being.

Those who choose to remain neutral, and instead spread to others the truth about Dorje Shugden - they will reap the benefits from NOT choosing sides but to spread an enlightened beings practice through peaceful and honest means.

Whatever HHDL chooses to say about compassion towards those who are seemingly undeserving of it, we have no right to judge. Who are we to judge who deserves to be treated well or not?

[DharmaSpace]

Jessica,
I like what you have written.

I recall there was this story told by this pure monk, he was in retreat with other minjs in North India. And Everytime he made some mistake during the retreat he will be reprimanded and given the stick so to say.

But then he saw there were certain monks who feel asleep during the retreat or were even eating during the retreat and so forth but these monks were not given the stick. He felt quite unfair then. But later the monk who told the story became a great teacher and the ones who did not get the stick faded into obscurity. Is that what the Dalai Lama is doing giving the stick to DS pracitioners so they can be much much better ? 

[Klein]

Dear jessicajameson and DharmaSpace,

I agree with both of you. Acts of compassion from Enlightened and highly attained beings are beyond our understanding. They work on so many levels that our tiny brains can't begin to understand the full benefits of their actions.

Everyone of us deserves compassion no matter how much sufferings we have created for others. All these sufferings are a result of our lack of wisdom. All of us create suffering for others in one way or another. And some of us continue create sufferings for others with lots of justifications even though we are told to stop and change numerous times. Do we listen and transform ourselves? NO!

Are we ALL not guilty of this? If so, do we not deserve compassion as well?

One may debate that Osama killed and did more damage so he shouldn't deserve compassion. Suffering is suffering. Pain is pain. Why even be selective and justify how much suffering and pain we give others is acceptable and how much is not acceptable. This sounds totally insane to me. Just STOP giving pain and suffering to others. One of the medicine for us to stop giving pain and sufferings to others is COMPASSION.

[michaela]

This is a very interesting topic.  If we refer to the story of Buddha Shakyamuni in his previous incarnation, killed one person to save the rest of the 499 passengers in the boat, he did it out of compassion, for both the person involved and the 499 passengers. 

I began to admire President Obama, when he said, we should withdraw the troops, concentrate US resources to kill Osama Bin Laden, the source of trouble.  He reminded me very much to the story of the Buddha Shakyamuni above.

Could it be that HHDL initiate the ban out of compassion to purify the Karma of DS practitioners that experienced discrimination and help the enforcer of the ban to gain merits by actually promoting DS although unintentionally and practicing Guru Devotion to HHDL?

Just a thought... 

[Aurore]

“If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures.”

The action of compassion towards someone who is destroying themselves and others (something serious) has to be stopped that so that this person does not continue to create more negative actions (counter-measures) are usually mistaken by many as "justified". This was clearly shown when the press got the wrong impression.

Someone like Osama deserves compassion which most of us would be unlikely to. For me personally, I do feel sorry for him but I cannot say my compassion towards him would be genuine.

However, HHDL is a real boddhisattva and practices true compassion. I would say that his compassion is beyond any normal human beings. It would be wrong to say that HHDL does not have compassion for Shugden practitioners either. IT ONLY APPEARS TO BE THAT HE DOESN'T. Just as this case of Osama Bin Laden's statement by HHDL which was also misinterpreted.

Anyone who supports HHDL's stand against DS practitioners is indirectly denying the fact that HHDL is the walking Chenrezig, the Buddha of Compassion. Maybe it's time to think deeper.

[Gabby Potter]

Actually I agree to His Holiness's statement, it was his ignorance that lead him into doing negative things. Can you imagine his life after life? Where'd he end up in? With people like this, we should put in more effort and patience to understand their situation. Yes, we all know that killing people is very wrong, but I can only say that he didn't have the wisdom or rather merits to realise what he did was wrong and it's too late now. To add on to that, I am just very confused that why is Osama who killed people for a living deserves compassion and not Dorje Shugden practitioners? Aren't we all humans? Not that Osama doesn't deserve that...

[Dondrup Shugden]

As an emanation of Chenrizig, it is natural that Dalai Lama practises equanimity and He will be compassionate to any one suffering whether he or she deserves it or not. 

In our unenlightened mind we will definitely not agree that Osama bin Laden deserves any compassion, for what he has masterminded and killed so many without any just cause of saving many from any disaster as Shakyamuni did.  Think of what Osama did and what his suffering will be on rebirth.  For that, in some weird way he deserves compassion on a very spiritual level.

In his kindness DL feels compassion for Osama.

There is not way to doubt that DL is sincere in his compassionate view in this instance.

Is there hypocrisy in his dispensing of compassion.  Maybe DL truly believes that Shugdenpas will go to three lower realms in their propitiation of Dorje Shugden, but many High Lamas whom DL has known in their previous incarnation have been incarnated.  What does that prove? 

To my simplistic mind, no lower realms for Shugdenpas. 

Let the Dalai Lama's compassion be encompassing and let us have religious freedom.