Dolgyal (Shugden) topics removed from CTA website???!!!!

[Namdrol]

Out of curiosity I did a search on CTA's website www.tibet.net for "shugden", and a list came out, but when I tried to click on the links with Shugden as the main topic, for example "His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)", it only says "page not found", same for a few other links with Shugden as the main topic (see pic attached).

Other articles which had been removed from CTA website include:

"The Central Tibetan Administration’s position on the Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet"

"Statement by the CTA on Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet"

"Limitations on Shugden Should Sustain: His Holiness"


If the topic came out in search, but when you click on it it says "page not found", it should mean that the article was originally there but was removed right?

Can someone else please verify this also? If this is true, good for you Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay! You have done the right thing for your government and people!

This means that CTA is now has been quietly separating state and church (religion). State is secular, government, people; church is religious issues, what you can and cannot practice...

There are still Shugden mentioned here and there in some articles, but those with Shugden as the main topic, had been removed. Those articles with Shugden mentioned are articles in which the majority of the content is not Shugden related, but Shugden is just being mentioned as a one-liner for example by Dalai Lama, Samdhong Rinpoche etc.

On those articles with Shugden as the main topic, it is also purely secular, like "Delhi High Court Dismisses Dorjee Shugden Devotees’ Charges".

The trend is clear now, those news with Shugden QUOTED by other personnel like Dalai Lama is still there, those are QUOTED and it does not represent CTA's stand on Shugden issue; those news which mentioned Shugden devotees pressing charges against Dalai Lama, those news about other people making allegations against Dalai Lama regarding Suhgden is still there; BUT, those articles that represent the STAND of CTA regarding Shugden, IS GONE.

Also, few years ago until sometime last year, there used to be an anti-shugden website with every materials against Shugden called www.antishugden.com, and the registrar record clearly showed that the website was made by Gangchen Kyishong (CTA) (see pic attached), the CTA blatantly didn't bother to hide their identity in creating the anti-shugden website back then, but the website has since been shutdown and Gangchen Kyishong has abandoned the website altogether (see pic), this is another clear sign that the CTA has been changing their stand against Shugden!

Also, the CTA some years ago had made an anti-shugden documentary video called "Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy" with clips accusing and embarrassing Shugden high lamas like Gangchen Rinpoche, and the latest check shows that it has also been removed from CTA's official TV Station online (http://www.tibetonline.tv), it used to be there for the longest time. But now there are only three Shugden related videos on the TV station, two are Dalai Lama's speech about Shugden, and another one made by Swiss TV. Again we can see that THE CTA HAS ABANDONED ALL MATERIALS ABOUT THEIR STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN. You still can see the original video "Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy" on Youtube here: 

Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy	Small | Large

IN OTHER WORDS, THE CTA HAS ABANDONED THEIR PREVIOUS STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN, WHICH IS TO PERSECUTE, TO BAN, TO OSTRACIZE, TO SIDELINE, TO OUTCAST SHUGDEN PRACTITIONERS!!!

Can we say that the ban against Shugden is half-lifted now?!?!

p/s "His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)" still exists on Dalai Lama's website (http://dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/his-holiness-advice) but it means now it is only a spiritual issue, and a Dalai Lama's "personal issue", a good development for Shugden practitioners!

[triesa]

Hi Namdrol,

Thank you for the heads up in this. I checked and you are right, those topics stated showed "page not found".

This is really good news to rejoice. And I believe this is the collective works of all the DS practitioners around the world who have made this happen. We should all keep it up!!!!

Thank you Dr Lobsang Sangay, the kalon Tripa of CTA. This is the way to go, all Tibetans should be united and freedom of religious issues should be encompassing to include DS practitioners as well.

This is such great news and I am so happy that my day is filled with bright sunshine now!!!

[DharmaSpace]

This is very interesting news indeed. I suspect perhaps the Kalon Tripa is moving to reconcile the differences between Tibetans that have been plaguing the entire Tibetan exile diaspora for so long. So if you were a new leader for a country in exile, without a home what would you do?

I would certainly find a way to rally and unite the people and what has been consistently a thorn in the image of Tibetans in exile, it is that they are divided over the Dorje Shugden issue! Dear Lobsang Sangye I applaud and congratulate your courage in doing the right thing. If Bon who are not buddhists can be accepted as part of the Tibetan nation I see why not Dorje Shugden practitioners to be part of the Tibetan Community. Happy news, thank you Namdrol for you ever alertness and vigilance.  You made my day! 

[samayakeeper]

Yes, it is interesting to read Namdrol's post but more interesting to search on CTA's website. I typed in Dorje Shugden and the message after the search showed "Unable to connect". I tried 30 minutes later and the same message appeared. If it is true that as what Namdrol suggested that the pages have all been removed, then I take back my word to Dr. Lobsang Sangay that he is not a puppet after all. I hope he will do more than that, working towards lifting the ban and allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners of Tibetan origin to freely continue with their practice openly, and reinstating their basic human rights and ending their suffering. I hope also that this may be soon before some of the older Tibetan people pass away so they may have joy and peace when their time comes.

Om Mani Padme Hung, Om Mani Padme Hung, Om Mani Padme Hung.

[harrynephew]

a wild thought just came to mind from no where but did we all at dorjeshugden.com just shut CTA down???!!! In the online sense of course. Because we have been refuting, explaining and writing our thoughts and wishes in order to lift the ban from our heads it has now come to our knowledge that CTA's link to Dorje Shugden issues are wiped off  from their website.

I can't find any substantial explanations for this really but to think that our postings made something happen.

Lift the ban! Lift the Ban!

[vajrastorm]

Wow! Thank you! This is incredibly great news indeed. Shugden topics being removed from CTA website! A wish come true! If indeed this is true,I must take back my criticism of the new Kalon Tripa as being inert and ineffective in redressing the anguishing issue of Shugden. Yes, it takes excessive courage to steer a new direction re this issue. I applaud this brave and bold move.

[yontenjamyang]

Great New! I strongly believe the ban will be lifted from the secular side first and follow later by the spiritual side. The CTA is also losing the PR war regarding the ban and the treatment of the TIbetan in exile. If we keep up the pressure up there is no way they can withstand the pressure as they risk being regarded as the new apartheid regime of the world.

This is a good sign. Lets hope they truly mean to permanently remove these links/content. The CTA should be a government for ALL Tibetans.

Lets keep the pressure.

[tsangpakarpo]

There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!

CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.

They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.

CTA, WAKE UP!!!

[Klein]

There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!

CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.

They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.

CTA, WAKE UP!!!

I totally agree with you. It's great news and I rejoice!!! This is a clear indication that the truth will always prevail. CTA withdrawing the articles is the first step. I believe if we all continue to spread the info around the world in more creative and harmonious methods regarding dorje shugden, more and more people will back down.

The key is educate the world with facts. Anyone of you who has the funds should make a movie and or documentary in National Geographic or Discovery Channel. Ride on the worldwide publicity that dorje shugden is having and disseminate the truth so that people's mind turn around and realise the benefits of the practice.

[LosangKhyentse]

There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!

CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.

They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.

CTA, WAKE UP!!!

I wanted to gently say the website IS NOT DOWN, but the articles removed. There's a difference. If it is removed, this means the CTA realizes it is bad for their PR to ban a sector of their own people due to religious beliefs.

This is an excellent post by Namdrol. I thank Namdrol for his vigilance. It has really made my week. I feel extremely happy to see this 'trend' I dare hope.

CTA is the secular 'leaders' of the Tibetans in exile at least. And if they still require the millions ($) in donations they are recieving to survive and operate their activities, they need to have good PR. Good PR means no ban, no suppression of their own people, no bias and religious injustices. Otherwise they sound like medieval England, Spain or witch hunts 200 years ago in the Americas.

The chronic problem with majority of CTA people is that they are highly backwards, uneducated, unexposed, very sedentary, always looking for handouts, have never travelled the world, have zero background in democratic modern governance. Their only source of information is BBC and Dalai Lama. With Phd Harvard graduate Lobsang Sangye coming in, there might be a difference. But we must do our part. We must write in, do E-protests (forum writings, Facebook, social medias) to continuously create an embarrassing situation for CTA. We are embarrassing them with their own silly and outdated ban, policies against a sector of people who's only crime is practicing Shugden. How can Dalai Lama say "choose him or Shugden?" It's not as simple as that, to choose Shugden means you can't vote, get medical assistance from Tibetan doctors, attend Tibetan schools, take part in decisions of the exile Tibetans, expelled from Monasteries. It's not freedom of choice but blackmail and pure dictatorial imposition.

We must continue to create more awareness and keep up the pressure. All Shugden practitioners must continue to group together and not stay apart or argue on idealogical/philosophical differences. That can be continued (if necessary) when the ban is released or forgotten.  The ban is just like apartheid. We must group together to remove this unfair, undemocratic and outdated apartheid. Religious freedom should be enjoyed by all citizens of Tibet and the world.

Down with Tibetan apartheid.

TK

[dsiluvu]

INCREDIBLE NEWS!!! I AM SURE ALL OUR VOICES PUT TOGETHER WAS SOMEHOW SPIED & HEARD ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I GUESS DR. LOBSANG SANGYE did not graduate from HAVARD for nothing lol. This is by far a wise move by the CTA. I am sure they do not wish to be seen by the world how inhuman and unethical they are towards their own Tibetans in exile. I hope they are thinking BIGGER.

The last thing they need is a dysfunctional, disharmony, dissemination of their very own people. And how many are there in India? Not much so if they are split within their own exile community... how many people they lose out which they could use to add voice towards their goals of "Freedom".

Look even China is acknowledging spirituality by meeting the Panchen Lama... so if they don't cut out the silly ban parade... they will create a world spotlight on them cos they would be the only country in this century to have such a law/rule for their own people. If Tibetan Shugden practitioners cannot even talk to their own PM, then I guess less votes for him.

Yes there are many great high lamas, masters & scholars who are doing wonders around the word for Tibetan Buddhism and who are Shugden practitioners, they are well connected & influential like H.E. Gangchen Rinpoche who is part of the UN... instead of being their enemy, witch hunting them... CTA shld be their best friend. They can help more then CTA can at the moment.

[Midakpa]

This is good news and may indicate that the CTA wishes to dissociate itself from the Dorje Shugden issue. Removing articles connected to Dorje Shugden is the first step in the right direction. Now I hope they will address the problems directly and remove the ban. Not only this! They must help the affected people who have suffered so much from the discrimination by giving them back their dignity. May all Dorje Shugden practitioners receive the protection of the CTA and be given the rights and respect they deserve!

[WisdomBeing]

Thank you Namdrol. This is truly splendid news. And what's most splendid about it is that the articles were removed! How exciting to contemplate that the CTA is quietly becoming secular as it should be. If this direction is the brainchild of the Kalon Tripa, Dr Lobsang Sangye, then i take my hat off to him for having the guts to stand up for human rights and non-discrimination because the ban, as TK has said, is really an insidious form of apartheid.

This news, combined with the demise of antishugden.com certainly bodes well for Dorje Shugden practitioners. I wonder what is the sentiment of the Tibetan community though - are they even aware that the CTA is softening its stance, at least on the official level. It is vital then that we write to Tibetan news/media to highlight this issue and praise the CTA for its progressiveness. When appropriate credit is given, especially in the international arena, perhaps this will be an incentive for the CTA to be more vocal about its stance to Dorje Shugden.

[Ensapa]

It appears as if the pages have been deleted from their backend -- that their own administrators removed the pages although there were remnants of it everywhere, but this is good news indeed!!

This is a sign of progress for the Tibetans and I am very happy for them as they have did something that the Dalai Lama has wanted them to do: the prime minister performing the duties of a prime minister that is to focus purely on secular affairs and not prosecute others based on religion. The Dalai Lama's little baby government is finally standing up to perform and not dump everything on his shoulders!! That is not a proper way to treat a Lama even though he has vowed to guide Tibet...not taking responsibility but putting all the burden on his shoulders. But with this clean line, the CTA has truly grown on to be a government.

The next step that should be taken is that the CTA provide support for the ostracized Shugden practitioners now to assist them back into society. Just because they practice Dorje Shugden dosent mean they're any less of a human and does not deserve equal rights. There has been a caste system in Tibet before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_classes_of_Tibet and I am sure CTA dosent want to go that direction again because if they do, the world will turn their back on them. The removal of the webpages is a good sign that they are fighting against that.

[bambi]

These are great news! If this continue on with what Dr Lobsang Sangay and CTA are doing then we can REJOICE at the separation of religious and political issues. This also means that people are no longer being ostracised for what they believe in and practice for the purposes of CTA are different now . Wouldn't it be wonderful? People of Tibet can live in peace and harmony as now CTA will concentrate on helping them and not abandoning them like previously. It is true that this website is being noticed for it's peaceful approaches to the ban and whatever mentioned are sensible and logical. I am pretty sure the CTA people come to this website and look at the comments here (hehe) as well. May the ban be lifted due to the joyous effort around the world. May the ostracized unhappiness becomes hapiness. May the admin and this forum continue to benefit all DS practioners! Thank you very much for all your hard work.