Forced to abdicate the practice or expulsion

[Ensapa]

Why is there a need to separate the monks in this way? so much disharmony in such a small community...and yet the Tibetans want to be united? The Dalai Lama wants unity? I dont see how it is gonna happen with cases like these. The ban has caused a bigger rift in the Tibetan colony than anyone could have foreseen, and it is only a matter of time before CTA gets demoted again because all of these actions contradict the Tibetan cause.

[dsiluvu]

Why is there a need to separate the monks in this way? so much disharmony in such a small community...and yet the Tibetans want to be united? The Dalai Lama wants unity? I dont see how it is gonna happen with cases like these. The ban has caused a bigger rift in the Tibetan colony than anyone could have foreseen, and it is only a matter of time before CTA gets demoted again because all of these actions contradict the Tibetan cause.

I think it is only a matter of time before the whole world notices the discrimination CTA is causing and how hypocritical they are... there is no unity... it is all a huge facade. The amount of money spent on the Free Tibet campaign can feed so many hungry children in Africa. When will Tibetans actually start creating value and benefit others? All this Buddhist talks and teachings about benefiting others sure ain't happening. It is no wonder why more and more leaders of the world are starting to turn down HHDL visit with them such as Taiwan, Uk and US.

What can Tibetans give back to the world really? AT first it was about Peace/Harmony/Loving kindness. But now not even peace come to think about it... I am sure the burning of Tibetans is not something the world leaders need to deal with right now when their own country's people are suffering a very bad economy crash and retrenchments. The last thing they need is to deal with those people who decided to set themselves in flames to demand something the world has no power over really. If there is gonna be a change... you will see it by now!

[Ensapa]

What can Tibetans give back to the world really? AT first it was about Peace/Harmony/Loving kindness. But now not even peace come to think about it... I am sure the burning of Tibetans is not something the world leaders need to deal with right now when their own country's people are suffering a very bad economy crash and retrenchments. The last thing they need is to deal with those people who decided to set themselves in flames to demand something the world has no power over really. If there is gonna be a change... you will see it by now!

Aside from chubas, momos and probably a fanatical-like devotion to the Dalai Lama, I dont see what they can give back to the world. most Tibetans I have met have no idea how the modern world works, and many of them are unwilling to build a career or work their way into being someone in their lives. I am guessing that perhaps they are hoping that with the Tibetan independence, they will be able to have their rightful 'place' in their lives again, where they do not need to work for it. That is what I am suspecting on why do they want their independence so much. I have spoken to a few before and it does seem a lot like they dont believe in having a stable job and building a career. Perhaps they are nomads by nature? I have no idea, but one thing for sure, such mentalities will not work now.

[dsiluvu]

Actually if CTA/Tibetans were smart... they would make their enemies friends.... because after His Holiness passes who else can be their voice and spokes person? Who else in their community will their life as Tibetans improve?  They should make friendships instead of burning their bridges with all the high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden like His Eminenece Gangchen Rinpoche who has huge connections, supporters and friends because of His Eminenece's work towards "world peace" with leaders all around the world.

Lama Gangchen is particularly dedicating his energy to inter-religious dialogue in the conviction that only by uniting all the positive energies of the planet, both on the inner and outer level, can world peace be achieved. In order to concretize this vision, in 1995 he wrote and presented a proposal for the creation of a permanent forum inside the UN – “United Nations Spiritual Forum for World Peace” – in which all religious denominations, their leaders and representatives can meet in order to concert actions for inner and world peace.

A spiritual forum to “identify non-material solutions” which should become the “principal deliberating body of the most effective inner solutions to outer and inner problems”: a human solidarity for the 21st century.

Since 1995, the Lama Gangchen World Peace Foundation has been promoting this concept worldwide, presenting it to Religious and Spiritual leaders, Heads of States, Political leaders, Secretary General of the United Nations, Boutros Ghali and Kofi Annan, Ambassadors, Economists, Industrialists, Religious, Spiritual and Ecumenical organizations and Institutions, NGOs, prominent world figures, and many more, in a dedicated effort to offer each individual and the collective, an open invitation to make the “best investment for future generations”, based on inner peace as the common language, reinforcing the need for all of us to look more closely at its deeper meaning.

Several National and International groups have been formed to support its ushering into existence by mutual interest and consent, among which, the Spiritual Forum at the United Nations Group in New York who are working on a collective proposal to present the Spiritual Forum idea and to justify the need for spirituality and the development of peace culture within the UN.

The work is centered upon promoting, lobbying and raising awareness worldwide so as to bring the message of spirituality into focus and relevance in the 21st century, as the defining of spirituality and its relevance in this millennium is fast becoming a topic of much discussion in all areas of society, and there is a definite call for global interdependence to be brought beyond the physical/material level into a ‘higher’ spiritual level which connects all in a spirit of human solidarity towards finding new approaches to human understanding.

http://www.helpinaction.org/lama-gangchen-world-peace-foundation/

[Big Uncle]

Dear Dsiluvu,
The CTA is indeed very stupid. The Dalai Lama has already stepped down and are no longer in power so that CTA has every right to forge closer ties with the Dorje Shugden Lamas again for diplomatic and secular reasons. The ban shouldn't apply to the CTA because they should already be evolving into a secular government and not a medieval institution bound by fear and superstition.

Like I said before in another thread that the CTA should be morphing itself into a secular state by abolishing all decrees and rulings associated with the ban on Dorje Shugden. They also shouldn't be meddling with monastic affairs to enforce that silly ban. On top of that, CTA should be attempt to re-establish fresh talks with Chinese government and use the self-immolations as an reason for closer co-operation. That would be a more feasible plan of action I think.

[Ensapa]

Dear Dsiluvu,
The CTA is indeed very stupid. The Dalai Lama has already stepped down and are no longer in power so that CTA has every right to forge closer ties with the Dorje Shugden Lamas again for diplomatic and secular reasons. The ban shouldn't apply to the CTA because they should already be evolving into a secular government and not a medieval institution bound by fear and superstition.

Like I said before in another thread that the CTA should be morphing itself into a secular state by abolishing all decrees and rulings associated with the ban on Dorje Shugden. They also shouldn't be meddling with monastic affairs to enforce that silly ban. On top of that, CTA should be attempt to re-establish fresh talks with Chinese government and use the self-immolations as an reason for closer co-operation. That would be a more feasible plan of action I think.

When a government still holds on to illogical religious edicts and choose to reinforce them without much logic or reason, you know that the government really has no capable people left inside, or that no one in the government is thinking properly. Thus, until now, nobody respects CTA or takes them seriously. Other countries may or may not know about the ban, but karma works in the background  and the results will still end up to be what it is.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Actually if CTA/Tibetans were smart... they would make their enemies friends.... because after His Holiness passes who else can be their voice and spokes person? Who else in their community will their life as Tibetans improve?  They should make friendships instead of burning their bridges with all the high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden like His Eminenece Gangchen Rinpoche who has huge connections, supporters and friends because of His Eminenece's work towards "world peace" with leaders all around the world.

Lama Gangchen is particularly dedicating his energy to inter-religious dialogue in the conviction that only by uniting all the positive energies of the planet, both on the inner and outer level, can world peace be achieved. In order to concretize this vision, in 1995 he wrote and presented a proposal for the creation of a permanent forum inside the UN – “United Nations Spiritual Forum for World Peace” – in which all religious denominations, their leaders and representatives can meet in order to concert actions for inner and world peace.

A spiritual forum to “identify non-material solutions” which should become the “principal deliberating body of the most effective inner solutions to outer and inner problems”: a human solidarity for the 21st century.

Since 1995, the Lama Gangchen World Peace Foundation has been promoting this concept worldwide, presenting it to Religious and Spiritual leaders, Heads of States, Political leaders, Secretary General of the United Nations, Boutros Ghali and Kofi Annan, Ambassadors, Economists, Industrialists, Religious, Spiritual and Ecumenical organizations and Institutions, NGOs, prominent world figures, and many more, in a dedicated effort to offer each individual and the collective, an open invitation to make the “best investment for future generations”, based on inner peace as the common language, reinforcing the need for all of us to look more closely at its deeper meaning.

Several National and International groups have been formed to support its ushering into existence by mutual interest and consent, among which, the Spiritual Forum at the United Nations Group in New York who are working on a collective proposal to present the Spiritual Forum idea and to justify the need for spirituality and the development of peace culture within the UN.

The work is centered upon promoting, lobbying and raising awareness worldwide so as to bring the message of spirituality into focus and relevance in the 21st century, as the defining of spirituality and its relevance in this millennium is fast becoming a topic of much discussion in all areas of society, and there is a definite call for global interdependence to be brought beyond the physical/material level into a ‘higher’ spiritual level which connects all in a spirit of human solidarity towards finding new approaches to human understanding.

http://www.helpinaction.org/lama-gangchen-world-peace-foundation/

Sounds like good advice.  If the above actions are adhered to by the CTA maybe today Tibetans will be in Tibet and there will be no discrimination against Shugdenpas.

May all obstacles be removed for an amicable solution to end the sufferings of the monastic order.  May the monks and nuns be given the sanctuary to study and preserve the Dharma.