Tibetan Buddhism banned in certain parts of China

[Ensapa]

The problem is this: many people who self immolate do not even realize that what happened for vietnam in the 1960s will not work for present day them now. If self immolations worked it would have worked long ago, when the first self immolations first started. The whole concept behind the recent Tibetan self immolations is that.."Since it worked for vietnam, it should work for me too!" wrong.

All it took was just one person to start off the chain of people burning themselves for a more "free" Tibet but in reality it just makes China tighten their grip more on Tibet and cause a lot of problems and issues for the friends and family of the people who immolate themselves, and cause even more problems with Tibetan Buddhism and their own community as a whole as the Chinese cracks down on them.

What shocks me is that instead of telling the people that they should stop in consideration for the growing of Dharma in China, and also that the self immolations do not actually work, the CTA actually issued a statement to encourage more immolations by saying that it is a very huge sacrifice and that CTA would never forget people who immolated themselves for the sake of a free Tibet.

That is a very selfish statement indeed because it encourages young people who are just hungry to be recognized and who have nothing better to do to immolate themselves and that it is a wonderful way to die. Honestly, does the CTA actually care for the Tibetan people? No. If they dont even before independence, what are they chances that they will after? So why free Tibet?

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Buddhist monks self immolating unfortunately is not something new. Several Buddhist monks set themselves on fire in protest during the 1960's in Vietnam.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has spoken out against this and also hunger strikes. He has personally stepped in to plead with hunger strikers to immediately stop the fast unto death.

To think HHDL is behind this in any way is without proof. Some may be unhappy about the advice HHDL gave regarding the Shugden spirit, but do not jump to conclusions HHDL is behind this or happy regarding the self immolation of Tibetan monks. This is jumping too far.

Even if HHDL was not around, the Tibetans will continue their protest against China. They are unhappy with the occupation-full stop.

China's has controlled Tibetan Buddhism since the 50's even choosing their own Panchen Lama. How can a atheistic govt who does not accept the doctrine of reincarnation choose the Panchen Lama.


********************************************

June 11, 1963, Thich Quang Duc, a Buddhist monk from Vietnam, burned himself to death at a busy intersection in downtown Saigon to bring attention to the repressive policies of the Catholic Diem regime that controlled the South Vietnamese government at the time. Buddhist monks asked the regime to lift its ban on flying the traditional Buddhist flag, to grant Buddhism the same rights as Catholicism, to stop detaining Buddhists and to give Buddhist monks and nuns the right to practice and spread their religion.

While burning Thich Quang Duc never moved a muscle.


Source:http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/2007/04/27/burning-monk-the-self-immolation-1963/


Below Vietnamese Buddhist Monk self immolates on 10/5/1963 (1st photo)
Another Vietnames monk self immolates on 11/6/1963 (2nd photo)

[lotus1]

Fully agreed with Positive Change. It is indeed very sad to hear this news.

Tibetan people needs to be more mature and should not self-immolation. They are not high lama like Vietnam monks that really knows what they are doing. From my point of view, the current series of self-immolation in Tibet are just impulsive, irrational and in-mature act that caused a lot of instabilities in the society.

It is understandable that due to this, the China Government is afraid that it will stir up the instability of the country just like the earlier Falun Gong practice in China. China wants peace, harmony and prosperity.

Since Dr Lobsang Sangay is the secular leader of Tibet, would strongly urge Dr Lobsang to step in and stop his people from self-immolation. Killing would not bring any results to free Tibet and would just let the situation to become worse! Wake up CTA!!

Would be best if HHDL, who is highly respected by Tibetan, can advise Tibetan to behave in a calm and Dharmic way and this will let China know that Buddhism does not support the act of self-immolation. Tibetan Buddhism is a peaceful and harmonious religion. Let’s pray for the teaching of Buddha and Lama Tsongkhapa spread far. 

[rossoneri]

This is why religion should not be politicalized, it is happening to other religion and it's happening to us now. Act of self immolation causing a lot of instabilities towards the society and giving a very bad impression for the Tibetan people and its religion. No doubt it'll create some kind of attention but i believed it is for a short moment, so why don't we stays alive and do more in long terms if we could sacrifice ourself to the extend of lighting up ourselves, am sure we can do much more generating more attentions in the long run basis by staying alive(The Dharmic Way). Buddha never taught us to kill!!!

The Chinese Government who wants peace and harmony will not tolerate this. I just hope that the act of self immolation will stopped immediately, instead we should divert the focus towards on how we should promote Buddhism in a Dharmic way. So that the situation will not be worsened.

[Barzin]

Why is it only certain parts of China?   That can only mean that Tibetan Buddhism is spreading rapidly and the Chinese government is worried?  How ironic! Half of their life time like to take over Tibetan and now they did and they are afraid of Buddhism?  Sad to hear that the Chinese had much negative karma and not being able to receive such fortune to be near dharma.  It is the very reason that Buddhism should be in China and benefit the people there. 

Talking about facts,  CTA themselves had set themselves as a bad example, their silly action had reflected badly in Buddhism.  Mixing politics and spiritual never works, a known fact that Buddhism is all about harmony and peace.  Now i am thinking the so called "ban" in China, is it another way of protector manifesting in action for dharma to spread even greater?  After all, what can go wrong in Buddhism right?

[Ensapa]

Buddhist monks self immolating unfortunately is not something new. Several Buddhist monks set themselves on fire in protest during the 1960's in Vietnam.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has spoken out against this and also hunger strikes. He has personally stepped in to plead with hunger strikers to immediately stop the fast unto death.

To think HHDL is behind this in any way is without proof. Some may be unhappy about the advice HHDL gave regarding the Shugden spirit, but do not jump to conclusions HHDL is behind this or happy regarding the self immolation of Tibetan monks. This is jumping too far.

Even if HHDL was not around, the Tibetans will continue their protest against China. They are unhappy with the occupation-full stop.

China's has controlled Tibetan Buddhism since the 50's even choosing their own Panchen Lama. How can a atheistic govt who does not accept the doctrine of reincarnation choose the Panchen Lama.


********************************************

June 11, 1963, Thich Quang Duc, a Buddhist monk from Vietnam, burned himself to death at a busy intersection in downtown Saigon to bring attention to the repressive policies of the Catholic Diem regime that controlled the South Vietnamese government at the time. Buddhist monks asked the regime to lift its ban on flying the traditional Buddhist flag, to grant Buddhism the same rights as Catholicism, to stop detaining Buddhists and to give Buddhist monks and nuns the right to practice and spread their religion.

While burning Thich Quang Duc never moved a muscle.


Source:http://www.worldsfamousphotos.com/2007/04/27/burning-monk-the-self-immolation-1963/


Below Vietnamese Buddhist Monk self immolates on 10/5/1963 (1st photo)
Another Vietnames monk self immolates on 11/6/1963 (2nd photo)

Again, what worked back in 1960s will not work anymore at this generation and time. Simply because China actually learns from their history, while the Tibetans are too busy trying to gloss over their own historical records and make themselves look good for the future generations while justifying their current decisions even though they are clearly wrong.

If you have read my previous post, I did not say that it was HHDL who encouraged such things but the CTA. They have been making press statements that seem to make matyrs out of the people who immolated themselves. Surely with such an arrangement, anyone who really wants fame and recognition would want to die as a matyr for Tibet's cause! How noble...not because it only infuriates China further.

HHDL as a real monk would of course stop these things from happening, but the CTA people are not monks. They're just laypoeple who think they are very devoted to their Guru but when in fact they are just digging their own graves by enacting extremist views and carrying them out, and it is even done in the name of their own lama!!

How can that be love when it is a clear sign that these people lack leadership qualities and also severely lack real love and compassion for their Lama. They should have come up with statements that say that such deeds do not bring benefit and request the people there to stop although I have yet to see any public statements by HHDL urging the people to stop.

[Klein]

Thirdly, the Chinese government wants to maintain harmony in their country. Any kind of behaviour which threatens it will of course be subject to a severe clampdown. By the self-immolations, the monks are creating a negative stigma and embarrassment to the Chinese government. Do they really think the Chinese government will say – oh there goes another burning monk, I think I will give independence to them?? Remember Tienanmen Square indeed. What happened there? How many died so that the Chinese can maintain control over their huge country? Did the international community make a difference? I don’t think so. Will the international community make a difference because monks are setting themselves on fire? I don’t think so.

So what is the result? Anything positive? No. The only result is the clamp down on Tibetan Buddhism in China. Great. This strategy is not working, guys. Can we find something else that works? Perhaps ask for Dorje Shugden’s advice? He hasn’t failed Tibet yet.

I totally agree with WisdomBeing. Self-immolation will not work with China. China has more than 1 billion citizens. It won't make a difference to China if a handful or a few hundred people kill themselves. Tiananmen Square was a great example. So many people died there, and nobody could do anything to stop the Chinese Government.

Tibetans have to change their ways with the Chinese Government. China is only interested in prosperity and harmony. They want to look good. So any thing that makes the Chinese Government look bad is a no go.

For Tibetan Buddhism to flourish in China, it was to complement the ideology of the Chinese Government. It's called skillful means.

[DharmaSpace]

The CTA has clearly failed to get independence for tibet and not done much bring up the standard of living for the Tibetans still in India. I liken it to desperation by the youths in certain parts of the Middle East, who face a bleak and hopeless future who are easily manipulated and carries out suicide bombing. Though the Tibetan in this case does not harm a chinese but merely his body.

I do think Chinese is under a lot of pressure due to such immolations, it makes them lose face in the international arena but it is not going to make them leave tibet. A solution that can reach some kind of middle ground is necessary to engage the Chinese. 

I now the CHinese government and people are very smart and they can observe that there are many Buddhists especially in Kham and Chatring area are very law abiding and benefit the community and society and that a lot of them worship dorje shugden also. I know the Chinese will not judge something just based on the facts of a minority, I mean Buddhism is spreading all over the world again and the spread of Buddhism is not synonymous to violence and chaos, it is bringing a lot of happiness to many people all over the world. Buddhism stabilises government and bring peace.

[Big Uncle]

One thing for sure about the Tibetans - most of them don't really know what's going in the world today. The Tibetans don't realize the rise of the Chinese economy and the fact that the Chinese are getting extremely wealthy. Money rules the world today.

If they knew and understand that, they wouldn't burn themselves up, hoping the world will take notice of their suffering. Actually, the world has taken notice but nobody is doing anything substantial because no single individual or country dares to defy the might of the Chinese Renmenbi. Instead of fighting, the Tibetans should learn to promote the peaceful image of Tibetan Buddhism and spread Dharma so it will infiltrate Chinese society.

The Tibetan monks and people living within China proper should promote their Lamas, temples and practices so the Chinese will learn Dharma from them. In that way, they can gain autonomy and respect. Otherwise, the Chinese will continue to view the Tibetan separatists as a menace. I wish someone would convey this message to the Tibetans living within China.

[Ensapa]

The CTA has clearly failed to get independence for tibet and not done much bring up the standard of living for the Tibetans still in India. I liken it to desperation by the youths in certain parts of the Middle East, who face a bleak and hopeless future who are easily manipulated and carries out suicide bombing. Though the Tibetan in this case does not harm a chinese but merely his body.

I do think Chinese is under a lot of pressure due to such immolations, it makes them lose face in the international arena but it is not going to make them leave tibet. A solution that can reach some kind of middle ground is necessary to engage the Chinese. 

I now the CHinese government and people are very smart and they can observe that there are many Buddhists especially in Kham and Chatring area are very law abiding and benefit the community and society and that a lot of them worship dorje shugden also. I know the Chinese will not judge something just based on the facts of a minority, I mean Buddhism is spreading all over the world again and the spread of Buddhism is not synonymous to violence and chaos, it is bringing a lot of happiness to many people all over the world. Buddhism stabilises government and bring peace.

I dont believe that China is under pressure over these things as they are more well prepared and powerful to deal with such things. China probably disregards it as a minor nuisance. China is way too powerful and matured to be disturbed by such insurgence. Actually, they have been very kind to the Tibetans as a similar uprising by the ughyurs a while ago was dealt with in a daft and swift manner.

It seems that the monasteries that are affected are being clamped down and not every single monastery in tibet is, while what happened to the ughyurs were brutal and mass arrests and so forth for attempting to create discord. I still dont see mass arrests of monks or tibetan people, maybe those that were secretly arrested and/or reformed but nothing too brutal, yet.

Tibetans in general are very stubborn and are very rough people and it wont be easy to reason with them once their mind is fixed on something. If they believe that something is true, it is very hard to convince them otherwise and likewise if they dont believe in something, it is very hard to convince them to believe that it is true, and it will take them a lot of time to learn that it is true.

In this case, the hatred for the chinese instilled by CTA propaganda has caused the Tibetans to self immolate and believe that they are in a bad situation when in reality it is not as bad as the CTA wants them to think it is. Again, this is CTA's way of trying to pressure China into giving up Tibet but it wont work because they do not even understand China in the first place.

To the CTA, this is the right way to go as they honestly believe that China will actually give in, as Tibetans tend to believe in what they want to believe irregardless of the reality of the situation. But what they do not know is that they are making it worse for those staying within tibet, in the name of their own agendas.

[VS]

It is really sad that the number of self immolating cases are on the rise. The question is whether or not these 'self immolators' realise if their so called self sacrificing benefits and contributes to creating the causes for the lifting of the ban soon or is it working against it!

With China implementing the ban of Tibetan  Buddhism in certain parts of China, how does it help towards the spreading dharma and Lama Tsongkhapa teaching in China? How can the Chinese that are so deprived of the dharma get to listen and benefit from the dharma? Are they not creating more negative karma for 'stopping' the spread of the dharma?

I really hope that these incidences will become lesser if not stopped totally.

[Benny]

"What shocks me is that instead of telling the people that they should stop in consideration for the growing of  :)Dharma in China, and also that the self immolations do not actually work, the CTA actually issued a statement to encourage more immolations by saying that it is a very huge sacrifice and that CTA would never forget people who immolated themselves for the sake of a free Tibet":qoute by ensapa.

I am just as shocked as Ensapa by the CTA's encouragement of Tibetans self immolations. I look at it as a sign of desperation by a defeated and destructive leadership. To think that most if not all of them in the CTA are buddhists and have been privileged to have been blessed in having access to pure dharma through immaculate high lamas and even enlighten ones for hundreds of years and yet they can act in such ways is just shocking.

It is indeed worrying for "new" Buddhist like myself who has only been trying to practice buddhism for the past two years to hear this . Would we forget what we learn and realise through our "limited" knowledge act the way the leaders in the CTA act , when we are desperate ? Would we forget about our refuge vows when we are faced with threats to out own well being . Would we encourage our family, friends and countrymen to kill them selfs when someone takes over our country ?

We will only see our true nature when we have been through the worst of the worst situations where ones mere survival is at stake. What is most disappointing is that the Tibetans are acting the way they are when the situation is NOT even a life a death situation. There is no famine , no destruction of their home , no genocide and etc.

[Positive Change]

It's sad but not surprising.  The Dalai Lama has refused to speak out about the self-immolations and some people suspect that he's behind them and encouraging them.  What then happens is that the Chinese fear that Buddhism is an extreme religion because it's showing such an extreme example, and it gets banned.

Buddhism doesn't teach you to set yourself on fire to challenge a political ideology. With the display of such fanaticism, similar to suicide bombing, it was really only a matter of time before a ban would be instituted.

I agree... Buddhism does not teach us to set ourselves on fire to challenge a political ideology. Certainly NOT! At least not how I view it. Self-immolations do border on fanaticism... surely there is a better way to prove a point! No disrespect to the monks but if a monk can justify burning themselves alive (whatever the motivation may be), it is no wonder through lack of education and exposure, some people blow themselves up and others to prove a point.

Don't we have enough complexities and worries in samsara already to throw a further spanner in the works by having the image of a monk setting themselves on fire. I find it very disturbing and perhaps that is my limited perception of things!

[Zach]

It's sad but not surprising.  The Dalai Lama has refused to speak out about the self-immolations and some people suspect that he's behind them and encouraging them.  What then happens is that the Chinese fear that Buddhism is an extreme religion because it's showing such an extreme example, and it gets banned.

Buddhism doesn't teach you to set yourself on fire to challenge a political ideology. With the display of such fanaticism, similar to suicide bombing, it was really only a matter of time before a ban would be instituted.

I agree... Buddhism does not teach us to set ourselves on fire to challenge a political ideology. Certainly NOT! At least not how I view it. Self-immolations do border on fanaticism... surely there is a better way to prove a point! No disrespect to the monks but if a monk can justify burning themselves alive (whatever the motivation may be), it is no wonder through lack of education and exposure, some people blow themselves up and others to prove a point.

Don't we have enough complexities and worries in samsara already to throw a further spanner in the works by having the image of a monk setting themselves on fire. I find it very disturbing and perhaps that is my limited perception of things!

There is a saying " I Respect the robe but not the person wearing it" Those whom wear robes do not always live up to the high standards that the robes represent. The Robes represent Renunciation from Samsara do not violate the robes by burning yourself alive for political activity I would say this is a gross misconduct. Buddhist change the world through their compassion it does not set a good example to throw away this precious human life.

[shugdenpromoter]

Tibetan Buddhism banned in certain part of China is nothing new. The CHINESE government has banned Tibetan Buddhism....FULL STOP. What I find it interesting is how NOW you see the CHINESE government supporting quite a few monastery especially the ones which practices Shugden in China. They are subsidising road works, making some monasteries into tourist attractions, subsidising construction of their temples, allowing certain high lamas to visit China ie Gangchen Rinpoche, Gaden Trisur, Yongyal Rinpoche and so on. These high lamas have visited China in the last 2 years. Now even the China Premier -  Wen Jiabao even gave an audience to the 11th Panchen Lama. Please see this post http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1707.0)

I am not worried at all. There will be more good news. The Gelugpa Monasteries are practicing Shugden in China is getting bigger and stronger.