Mixing Gelug and Kagyu Tradition

[michaela]

I do not agree if it is stated that attending talks by other masters other than your teacher is called flirting with other traditions or not being satisfied by one's lama.  And attending talks of other masters for the purpose of not wanting to be called secterian is also not a good argument.

It is stated in the scriptures that when attending a Dharma talk, your mind need to be an appropriate vessel to accept the teachings (e.g., not being like a vessel that is turned upside down or not being a vessel that is leaking) so the teachings can stay in your mind.  So coming to a Dharma session just for the sake so other people will not think that I am a secterian, definitely is not the right motivation.  And definitely, if I happen to benefit from the teaching of lama from other tradition, it does not mean that I want change tradition or respect my Lama less, or because the other lama is more funny or powerful.  This should be only be interpreted as "I learned something today.  I see the value from this learning, and I will apply it." That's all.

Attending talk by masters from other traditions is not flirting with other traditions at all.  Even in the monasteries including Gelug monasteries such as Gaden, monks from other traditions are not forbidden to attend a teaching session.   It is just said that the leader of one tradition does not have any authority to decide for the other traditions.  That is called respect.

If you happen to come across a teaching that sticks in your mind and make you understand better, and as a result you don't have to bother your lama to give further explanations and to ask him to explain again and again just because the students cannot think creatively to get him/herself to understand or the students just too lazy to search elsewhere and find other means to understand the topic at hand. I think there is no harm in that as long as it does not contradict your lama's teaching.  And there is no way that it should be interpreted as wanting to defect to another tradition.  That thinking is narrow-minded in itself.

     

[Vajraprotector]

In discussing this topic, I think it depends on who we are discussing about and not so much the subject matter itself.

If we look at the various traditions in Tibetan Buddhism, each tradition doesn't exist as exclusive isolated lineage on its own as there are shared lines of transmission. Also, all of them shared the same monastic traditions and vows from the Mulasarvastivada line.

All the schools follow a path that combines sutra and tantra, complimented with rituals and meditation. The monastic sutra topics studied are the same, for example, prajnaparamita, the middle way, correct view of voidness, pramana, and abhidharma. Some may say the texts are not the same, but even in the monasteries in the same tradition, or different colleges in the same monastery use different texts.

The different traditions practice many similar yidams, such as Chenrezig, Tara, Manjushri, Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini. Meditation and retreats are similar, starting with preliminary practices, although there may be slight differences in structure and manner.

The lineages of teachings also mix and crossover. For example, Marpa’s transmission of The Guhyasamaja Tantra went to both Kagyus and Gelugs, and Mahamudra that is considered Kagyu are also transmitted in Sakya and Gelug schools.

Having said that, we have to reflect that what it boils down to is personal practice, hence unlike great masters, Tulkus, Geshes/Khenpos who need to transmits many teachings, initiations and practices, we should focus on one tradition as this helps to keep the component parts of the practice, the vocabulary, and the manner of expression consistent. Not many can be like Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche who can crossover the traditions, as it means that you have to master the different traditions, and yet never mixed them - when composing or teaching Gelug texts, it has to be Gelug style with its own set of concepts, vocabulary and based on the main practices and system of the tradition.

After all, our ultimate aim is to gain attainments and benefit many, I don’t think trying to climb different mountains all at the same time will bring us anywhere, and definitely we do not have time to climb so many mountains  .

[Ensapa]

I do not agree if it is stated that attending talks by other masters other than your teacher is called flirting with other traditions or not being satisfied by one's lama.  And attending talks of other masters for the purpose of not wanting to be called secterian is also not a good argument.

It is stated in the scriptures that when attending a Dharma talk, your mind need to be an appropriate vessel to accept the teachings (e.g., not being like a vessel that is turned upside down or not being a vessel that is leaking) so the teachings can stay in your mind.  So coming to a Dharma session just for the sake so other people will not think that I am a secterian, definitely is not the right motivation.  And definitely, if I happen to benefit from the teaching of lama from other tradition, it does not mean that I want change tradition or respect my Lama less, or because the other lama is more funny or powerful.  This should be only be interpreted as "I learned something today.  I see the value from this learning, and I will apply it." That's all.

Attending talk by masters from other traditions is not flirting with other traditions at all.  Even in the monasteries including Gelug monasteries such as Gaden, monks from other traditions are not forbidden to attend a teaching session.   It is just said that the leader of one tradition does not have any authority to decide for the other traditions.  That is called respect.

If you happen to come across a teaching that sticks in your mind and make you understand better, and as a result you don't have to bother your lama to give further explanations and to ask him to explain again and again just because the students cannot think creatively to get him/herself to understand or the students just too lazy to search elsewhere and find other means to understand the topic at hand. I think there is no harm in that as long as it does not contradict your lama's teaching.  And there is no way that it should be interpreted as wanting to defect to another tradition.  That thinking is narrow-minded in itself.

   

Actually, that part came from Pabongkha Rinpoche himself. In Liberation of the palm of your hand, he mentioned specifically about a Gelug Geshe who studied the Nyigma teachings, and the direct result of that was that the people in that area started saying that Gelug teachings are only good for knowledge and are not really practical. So from this incident, we can know that mixing traditions is a no-no.

However, it is also a well known fact that Tibetans are known to be very narrow minded as well, but does it not also send the message to others that you are not very stable in your own practice or that your own tradition is inadequate to other people? We have to think and be aware of what kind of message are we sending to other people at the same time.

There are many newbies out there who may not be as learned or stable as you, but they just follow what you do and in the end they get confused or lose interest in Buddhism because they cannot reconcile the different approaches to Dharma. Some of them may not be able to see the similarities but only the differences in the many traditions and start having wrong views...

But fundamentally, it depends on your Guru's instructions. If he says to not go to other centers, it is only for your own benefit and mental stability, or due to other reasons. It wouldnt be a good idea to skirt around that instruction as most Gelug lamas tend to have this approach to their students and for a very good reason: to prevent their own students from getting confused when they delve into the other teachings, especially if they are not stable enough.