POLL : If your Lama ask you not to practice Dorje Shugden

[Tammy]

I will follow exactly what my lama/guru tell me, without asking why.

This is because I have full faith to my guru, who will definitely advise for my benefit.
Even though I know Dorje Shugden is an enlightened dharma protector and I have been practicing it, I will still stop if my lama wants me to stop. Because I know my lama has the reason to do so.

[Carpenter]

Yes, I agree with what you say Tammy, if we don’t believe in our lama, then why do we take refuge to our lama? Ignoring his instruction and go on our own? If we are so great that can ignore his instruction, then we would be enlightened by now, if not, that means we need guidance, and when guidance is given, follow is the key.

Protector practice is given by our lama, if he finds out that we are heading wrong way, disallowing us to continue the practice or maybe for a bigger picture, he definitely has the right to do so. As human, we are already very attach, so, why do we need protector to make us more attach to the materials? Surrendering ourselves and commit 100% to our lama is the only way out from Samsara, it’s the One Way Street.

[Lineageholder]

Yes, I agree with what you say Tammy, if we don’t believe in our lama, then why do we take refuge to our lama? Ignoring his instruction and go on our own? If we are so great that can ignore his instruction, then we would be enlightened by now, if not, that means we need guidance, and when guidance is given, follow is the key.

Protector practice is given by our lama, if he finds out that we are heading wrong way, disallowing us to continue the practice or maybe for a bigger picture, he definitely has the right to do so. As human, we are already very attach, so, why do we need protector to make us more attach to the materials? Surrendering ourselves and commit 100% to our lama is the only way out from Samsara, it’s the One Way Street.

But even Buddha said that we should not simply believe what he says without examining it as we would gold.  I find it slightly disturbing that a lot of people on this thread would simply give up their Dorje Shugden practice if their Lama asked them to, without even asking 'why'?

Everything needs a valid reason. 'Because my Lama told me to'  - is that a valid reason?  Aren't
many people blindly believing the Dalai Lama when he says that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit?  They are obviously being led down a wrong path by wrong reasoning but because of who the Dalai Lama is - his big name, basically -  they just accept it and abandon the practice.  This blind following of someone who is charismatic seems wrong to me.

I would be surprised if our Guru didn't at least want us to ask why - surely he's training us to be analytical and work things out for ourselves instead of blindly following someone?

[samayakeeper]

I would take heed of, listen to and follow my lama's instruction but if I had received the practice of Dorje Shugden from another lama prior to my present lama, I would respectfully request my present lama for me to seek advice from that lama whom I received the practice.

If I had not received the practice before and my present lama said not to practice, I would follow. Whether my lama was right or wrong in my perception depended on my checking the lama out before I decided to request the lama to be my spiritual teacher. It depended on if I had the merit to meet a 'real' lama or not. A 'real' lama would know if Dorje Shugden is enlightened or not, and whether I was ready to receive the practice that would bring benefit to me and others. It would be the same with other practices, not just Dorje Shugden.

On the reverse side, if my lama asked me to do the practice, I will follow.

[Ensapa]

But even Buddha said that we should not simply believe what he says without examining it as we would gold.  I find it slightly disturbing that a lot of people on this thread would simply give up their Dorje Shugden practice if their Lama asked them to, without even asking 'why'?

Everything needs a valid reason. 'Because my Lama told me to'  - is that a valid reason?  Aren't
many people blindly believing the Dalai Lama when he says that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit?  They are obviously being led down a wrong path by wrong reasoning but because of who the Dalai Lama is - his big name, basically -  they just accept it and abandon the practice.  This blind following of someone who is charismatic seems wrong to me.

I would be surprised if our Guru didn't at least want us to ask why - surely he's training us to be analytical and work things out for ourselves instead of blindly following someone?

The Buddha also taught that one should have confidence (some translators use the word faith, but it is more of confidence) (sradha, saddha) in the teachings. There are some teachings that you dont need to question and some that you do. Of course you should find out why your Guru ask you to do this or that, but the best way is to just do it first and then try to analyze later because if you analyze first until you get a satisfactory answer before you do it, it could be too late by then. The Buddha also gave a parable in this context, of a person who is shot with an arrow. Instead of asking who shot the arrow, and how the arrow is made etc, should the person not focus on pulling out the arrow and treating the wound? Questioning the Guru's instructions is like asking who shot the arrow instead of focusing on how to heal it.

One should always question and find out and discover the Dharma, but one should also have faith/confidence in the teachings or your own Guru. Without that, nothing can be achieved.

[WisdomBeing]

As i do not have a lama yet, this topic is very interesting for me. i am curious. Hypothetically speaking - in this situation where let's say i have a root guru but he has passed away, and then i have another teacher who gives me the Dorje Shugden practice and then he has also passed away, and i happen to take a teaching from HH Dalai Lama, who then becomes my teacher. Then the Dalai Lama tells me to stop Dorje Shugden practice, should i listen to the Dalai Lama as he is my teacher? Or do i remain steadfast to the teacher who gave me the practice? I would not have any other teacher to ask.

In my limited view i would still keep my practice because of my trust in the teacher who gave me the practice. Would this be the right thing to do?

[Ensapa]

As i do not have a lama yet, this topic is very interesting for me. i am curious. Hypothetically speaking - in this situation where let's say i have a root guru but he has passed away, and then i have another teacher who gives me the Dorje Shugden practice and then he has also passed away, and i happen to take a teaching from HH Dalai Lama, who then becomes my teacher. Then the Dalai Lama tells me to stop Dorje Shugden practice, should i listen to the Dalai Lama as he is my teacher? Or do i remain steadfast to the teacher who gave me the practice? I would not have any other teacher to ask.

In my limited view i would still keep my practice because of my trust in the teacher who gave me the practice. Would this be the right thing to do?

If your previous teachers have told you to do Dorje Shugden and he has passed away, it is best to follow that teacher because getting a new teacher or switching lineages doesnt  give you an excuse to 'start over'. You still have samaya with your Guru even after he has passed away and other Gurus cannot overwrite that. If that is possible, a lot of lineages would have lost as practitioners can just discard what they have and take on the new one. Sadly, in this time and age people do believe that they can switch lineages cleanly and that having a more 'powerful' Lama can overwrite their last one. It is something people these days are inclined to believe because they're just looking for a quick fix, but they would end up with nothing in the end.

[Gabby Potter]

If I were to be put into that situation, I'd choose to perpetuate Dorje Shugden. What was given is given, there's no way we can take it back. It's like sending people hate messages and say that you want to take them back, sadly it doesn't work this way.

[Jason Statham]

I really do not know what answer to choose. This question might be short but it's extremely hard to answer when you think about it. In our Dharma text, Buddha said that we have to do whatever our guru asks us to, but what about in this case, I don't think a guru who practices Dorje Shugden would ask you stop practicing it because He obviously should know that Dorje Shugden is Buddha since he practices Dorje Shugden. But if I must choose one, I think it would be this "Immediately stop practice Dorje Shugden without asking any question !" Because a guru will always have His own reason of doing things so we do not have the rights to question Him and we must always respect our guru's decision.

[prodorjeshugden]

The choice "i promise my Lama not to practice but will continue to practice secretly" choice isn't a nice choice as you are lying to your own guru (since you already promised that you would stop practicing)
The choice "i will stop practicing DS if my lama explains why to me and i accept it" is the best option to me, that way we don't create any negative karma for ourselves.  This choice is the best in the whole list.

[grandmapele]

What am i to be today? a coconut tree, a willow tree, swaying whichever way the wind blows thus following the way of least resistance? or do i learn up, at least intellectually if not by realization, all there is to know whether what was given to me earlier is the real McCoy? There is always the middle way as taught by the Buddha and Nagarjuna.