Does Dorje Shugden really shorten HH the Dalai Lama's life?

[pgdharma]

It is such rejoicing news to hear that HHDL is not retiring until at least 90 years old. This proves that Dorje Shugden's practice does not shorten HHDL's life but in actuality increases his life. In fact, since the ban of DS practice, there are more DS monasteries flourishing everywhere and more DS practitioners around the world but there is no sign of HHDL's life shortened. Anyway, HHDL is an enlightened being and his life cannot be shortened by DS practice. It is the broken samaya and lack of guru devotion from students that can shorten HHDL's life.

All those who believe that HHDL's life can be shortened by DS practice are ignorant and stupid. They should learn up and understand who is Dorje Shugden instead of making a fool of themselves with silly accusations.

May HHDL live long and stay healthy always. May the ban be lifted soon!

[Barzin]

Does it really shorten HHDL's life?  I have always wondered.  From this video, I get a great sense that HHDL is manifesting contradiction of course with a purpose.  Is HHDL trying to make statement that goes against what he said previous about how Dorje Shugden would affect him?  It seems to me that it is time the His Holiness is reversing about things that he said about Dorje Shugden, I am just guessing perhaps he is manifesting this to prove that in fact Dorje Shugden's practice wouldn't shorten his life.  In fact he is in full control of his life.  I wonder how would CTA feel?  Even His Holiness seems to get in line with how the world thinks of Shugden, and I heard less of His Holiness talking about the ban.  So I am assuming His Holiness wil continue to drop hint here and there to show the world afterall Shugden practice is not the core reason for the ban it is actually for the growth of dharma.  I hope CTA is able to see it and remove all things about banning DS, it won't be too smart to accumulate much negative karma due to some face issues. 

[vajratruth]

This is really quite funny. Not much speaks louder than real results and the result right before our very eyes is the Dalai Lama at age 77 running on the thread mill and taking strides much more vigorously than men half his age, and showing no signs of slowing down.

Even if we do not understand much else, we must be logical. In 1976, HHDL started "isolating" himself away fro DS. Then in 1996, HHDL became more forceful in imposing the ban. All in all 36 have passed since Dorje Shugden supposedly wanted to harm HHDL.

So either DS is completely ineffectual as an 'evil spirit" in which case there is nothing to fear or the whole controversy is a clever ruse to get the enemies of HHDL to promote DS on his behalf. Which they did and continue to.

I am quite sure that when no one is watching Chenrezig and Dorje Shugden sit down together having tea and a good laugh.

[kris]

I am glad to hear that HH Dalai Lama has plan to live over 90 years old.

I like vajratruth's argument that if he has plan to live over 90 years old, then what is all this fuss about Dorje Shugden shorten His life? Actually, the whole thing about Dorje Shugden shortening HH Dalai Lama's life make no sense at all. This argument itself has so much loophole in it. If HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig, how can He be harm?

While I am glad to hear that Dalai Lama has plan to live over 90, I would hope to see that Dalai Lama would concentration on Buddhist activities (such as Dharma talks, initiations, etc) rather than political matters (to me, Dorje Shugden is more a political matter than Dharma related matter). He should let the prime minister to run the political matters. What do you think?

[Manjushri]

If Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL's life, HHDL would not have so confidently made such a statement knowing very well that there are many people still practising DS. A 'spirit' will listen to the Lama, so what makes one think that a Lama's life can be affected by just a 'spirit'. Even when oracles take trance, they will listen, pay homage and respect to the Lama, so how can a 'spirit' control and determine the life of a HIGHLY ATTAINED Lama such as HHDL?

It is said in HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's biography that Rinpoche pinpointed exactly the dates that he would enter clear light and his cremation. It is also said in Rinpoche's biography that there was a period that Rinpoche was extremely ill, but at the request of the monastic Dharma protector who requested Rinpoche to prolong his life until HH Trijang Rinpoche's reincarnation was recognized, Zong Rinpoche miraculously healed and did not manifest any illness. This clearly proves that highly attained lamas have control over their life and death.

Seeing that Zong Rinpoche is Heruka, and HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig, there is no difference in their attainments and their ability to control their lifespan.

[Carpenter]

Hey, I just thought of this, I’ve heard many times that people said practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten Dalai Lama’s life, but what’s my doubt are:

1.   How does Dorje Shugden relate to Dalai Lama that created a situation where whenever people practice Dorje Shugden, it will shorten Dalai Lama’s life?

2.   There are so many people practicing other spirits out there, why is it only Dorje Shugden and not other spirits?

3.   Those people out there are not related to Dalai Lama, some of them don’t even know who Dalai Lama is, so when they practice Dorje Shugden, how will it affect Dalai Lama’s life?

4.   If Dorje Shugden as a spirit is so powerful, if somehow rather that Dorje Shugden is relate to Dalai Lama and will harm his life, I’m pretty sure whether there are people practicing or not, Dorje Shugden will still harm Dalai Lama’s life, so by banning Dorje Shugden and stopping people from practicing to save Dalai Lama’s life, does it make sense?

[pgdharma]

HHDL is now in his 70's, if practicing Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL's life, HHDL will not be here with us until to this day and the many more years to come until he is in his 90's. HHDL is an enlightened being, definitely he can control his own life span.  When, where, how he wants to go into clear light is dependent of him.  If Dorje Shugden is a spirit, it is impossible for Dorje Shugden to harm HHDL, if Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, why would he want to harm HHDL? So all these fuss about Dorje Shugen shortening HHDL's life is just a joke, it really doesn't make sense at all.

May His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama live long and continue to turn the wheel of dharma to benefit all sentient beings.

[Aurore]

1. In the laws of karma, nothing can harm you unless you have the karma to be harmed. HHDL is an emanation of Chenrezig. As Boddhisattva Chenrezig is an Enlightened Being, he is free from karma.

2. High lamas have the power to heal themselves. They can also determine when and how they want to enter clear light. For this instance, HHDL has made the announcement that he plans to live up to 90 years old and I believe it is possible.

In fact, in an Indian talk show hosted on this 75th birthday in 2010, Dalai Lama has also made a claim that he could probably live up to 105. “If I don’t commit suicide, then otherwise my body is very healthy. Another ten to twenty years. no problem. Maybe thirty years!”
(source: http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=225&catid=6&subcatid=33)

On one hand, His Holiness says that Dorje Shugden shortens his life, on the other hand, he claims that he will not die anytime soon as long as he doesn't take his own life.

[brian]

The so called reason for banning the practice of Dorje Shugden because it will shorten His Holiness Dalai Lama comes in as a joke to me with all respect. Dalai Lama's health is still very good despite the practice of Dorje Shugden is growing all over the globe especially we are talking about the increasing numbers in China alone. We don't seem to see His Holiness' health degenerating and it will be great to have such compassionate being to live his precious existence in our planet to the fullest and live long to continue to spread the teachings of Buddha. 

[samayakeeper]

I really, really wonder how the practice of Dorje Shugden can affect the lifespan of HHDL since he declared he is going to live until 90. Hmmmm.....or is it that the other way around?

I am glad Chenrezig himself is going to continue working compassionately with wisdom to benefit more beings until it is time for him to decide when to take another rebirth. I do not think that any being aside from himself can determine this.

CTA: what explanation do you have?

[beggar]

This is a classic one from the anti-shugden camp. One for the books. We'll look back on this in many years and have a good laugh (we're doing that right now, actually).

Another one, a little related to this, is the claim that engaging in DS practice will shorten our lives and eventually lead us to hell. the CTA and their cronies have set up websites just to say this (antishugden.com), complete with nasty graphics and immature photoshopped pictures of DS Lamas. (This doesn't say much about them as leaders of a supposed community, but it doesn't seem they even realise this).

If this was the case, then why are so many of the world's most well known Dorje Shugden practitioners back in this world? Their unmistaken incarnations are very much among us. If they had promoted DS, engaged in his practice and spread the lineage to thousands of students - as teachers like HH Kyabje Pabongka and HH Kyabje Trijang did, then why are they back and not in hell? AND, many of these incarnations - like the current Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche - was recognised and identified by His Holiness the Dalai Lama himself!

Quite contradictory, isn't it, that he would say that this "spirit"'s practice is extremely dangerous and sends practitioners to hell; then recognise the incarnation of the very master who was most famed for his DS practice; THEN give him the special exception to practice too! (see that famous video of him granting exception here:

Dalai Lama says Trijang Rinpoche can practise Dorje Shugden	Small | Large

) There are so many contradictions in this - does no one else see this?

[VS]

With all due respect, those who believes that doing Dorje Shugden practice will cause harm and shorten HH Dalai Lama's life are really ignorant and are judging the book by its cover.

The controversy arose in the late 1970s when the HH Dalai Lama started to speak out against the propitiation of Dorje Shugden and intensified since 1996. Moreover, Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector of the Sakya and Gelug traditions, who has been worshipped for over three hundred years.

From then till now, it is already 40+ years. If this practice is really harmful and will shorten HH Dalai Lama's life, why is HH still alive till today and has HH declared that His going to live till at least 90 years old?! 

All these just don't make sense.

[brian]

Put it this way, how can we practising Dorje Shugden (a proven Buddha and not a spirit) can actually shorten Dalai Lama's life who is Bodhisattva Chenrizig? Buddha harm another Buddha? I will just have to ask this question to any of the doubters. We know very well how the high monks during 5th Dalai Lama's lifetime made numerous pujas to subdue the so called "spirit" Dorje Shugden but to no avail bcos Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.

[Ensapa]

So far, the Dalai Lama's health has been good and I dont see any threats to his health. Nothing is going on and he is still very well alive. And Dorje Shugden's practice is still strong in many ways, so it is safe to conclude that Dorje Shudgen does not harm  his health or shorten his life. He even said that he will live on all the way to 90 years old! I hope he unbans Dorje Shugden by then!

[vajratruth]

So, maybe this claim is to divert people's attention from his promise to obtain Tibet's independence in a stipulated time of which he failed to get.

Om Mani Padme Hung!

Yes, I agree Galen. I have always wondered about the timing of the Dalai Lama ban on Dorje Shugden. There were no spiritual unrest or quarrels amongst the Tibetan Buddhist community that might have prompted the two most aggressive attacks on Dorje Shugden in 1996 and 2008 and therefore the Shugden affair does not seem to have its roots in any spiritual matter at all.

There were however, 2 politically related incidents that could explain why a red herring was needed in 1996 and 2008. A few years prior, in 1988 the Dalai Lama had unilaterally given up the pursuit of Tibet's independence, opting instead for an autonomous Tibet under the sovereignty of China. This would have been a terrible blow to the Tibetans had it been made very public but it was not and soon, in 1989 the Dalai Lama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and with that all Tibetans basked in the glory of their spiritual and temporal leader, thinking that finally Tibetan independence was within grasp. But by 1995, when it became clear that Tibetans were not even close to returning to their homeland, rumblings of Tibetan independence started again and this time spearheaded by the Dalai Lama's own brother. The public split between the Dalai Lama and his own brother was not good press for the Dalai Lama and attention was being drawn towards Tibet's independence versus autonomy. The louder the call for Tibet's independence, the more it was becoming evident that Tibet's own leader had hawked off what all Tibetans treasured.

And so the Dalai Lama had to produce a false witness in Nechung (remember Nechung bows to the Dalai Lama) claiming that Dorje Shugden was the cause of the failure in Tibet regaining its independence. And in addition the Dalai Lama added to the stake another thing all Tibetans treasure - that is the Dalai Lama himself. The Dalai Lama claimed that the practice of Dorje Shugden shortens his life knowing full well how he is revered and loved by Tibetans as their god-king.

That worked and attention shifted to a deity that had been propitiated for hundreds of years and Tibetans turned on their own kind in retribution.

The call for Tibet's independence cooled off somewhat until the years leading into the Beijing Olympics and attention again focused on the China-Tibet issue. As Tibetan independence movements geared up for action (perhaps even under the instigation of the Dalai Lama's own office as China has claimed) the call for Tibet's independence became louder and all this nationalistic fervor can only serve to highlight that it was the Dalai Lama himself who gave away the nation's independence in Strasbourg years back. And so, there was a need to create a bigger distraction to divert attention away from the Dalai Lama's failure and this time the Dalai Lama went for the jugular with the Shugden practicing monks and lay people.

And why Dorje Shugden was made the culprit? It would not have been expedient to pick on the State Oracle as much of the political decisions were made in consultation with Nechung and if Nechung had been wrong all these time, it would also mean that the Dalai Lama has also been wrong. Neither could the Dalai Lama ban a practice outside his own Gelugpa sect. None of the other sects regard the Dalai Lama as their spiritual head and therefore it had to be Dorje Shugden.

Not that the Dalai Lama himself believes it and His Holiness let the cat out of the bag a few times stating confidently that he can look forward to a long time. The Dalai Lama may be in collusion with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma with the added play by Nechug. Or it could just be that the Dalai Lama picked on Dorje Shugden knowing fully well that Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Buddha and will always upkeep the Lojong rule and let the other party have the victory.