Australian Buddhists supports same-sex marriage

[dsiluvu]

BTW i would definitely not rejoice for same sex marriage or union, as this is resultant of negative karma that befall upon these folks. The teachings of Buddha taught us to follow and respect the nature of how things are supposed to be. Not to go against the nature.

Is there any where in any "scriptures" that says it is wrong to love or fall inlove with the same sex???

In the Vinaya (regulations for Buddhist monks), the Buddha states that those who openly expressed cross-gender features or strong homosexual desires and actions may not become a monk. Note that just having homosexual desires eliminates the person from the possibility of being a Buddhist monk.

The rest seems like just opinions... translations of what it exactly means. And well look if His Holiness can be open about it and says; "Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people."

I take this to mean that Karma supersedes your sexual preferences lol.

In my opinion I think it is okay as long as these are two people who respected and love each other and does not harm anyone. If it is an indication of the degenerate times then we really cannot help it can we as these are natural causes and conditions. So instead of being disgusted by these acts, should we not apply the compassionate Dharma we have learnt and accept these beings as they are beings too and they just have a different preference as do you? And isn't all just a matter of different perceptions of what you have been brought up to think and imputed in to your preconceptions which Dharma says is not TRUE also???

So in the end there is really no BLACK or WHITE - YES DESIRE IS DESIRE. So just be and as long as no one is causing any harm, i do not see any harm. And how beautiful that they can also have Dharma in their lives better then no Dharma at all!

[Positive Change]

Well Kurava, I appreciate your honesty and opinion... however, personally I feel your statements are flawed on many levels. Why I say so, please allow me to share MY opinion:

Hi Folks,
Sorry i am speaking honestly about how i feel about this issue, please do not flame me. My guts feeling is that something is very amiss when you agreed to the same sex marriage or union.
This is something that is out of "natural". If you guys agreed upon it, next moment we may hear something bizarre somewhere such as they are people who agree upon incest etc. some people agree upon mouth, anal etc.

What is natural? What is bizarre? What is the gauge one has but one's own perceptions right? So are you saying your perception is better than another? Sure there are also the perceptions of society in general too, in that it sets certain precedence but that in itself is based on a larger consensus which is a lot fairer than say one persons opinion for all! I am not condoning nor am I against this but merely trying to appeal to your being absolute on your views.

Are we out of Dharma context??? Is there someone with appropriate Dharma knowledge , such as some Rinpoche care to explain such topic? All along Buddha taught us the nature of the universal laws and emptiness, I do not recall hearing Buddha preaching on same sex union?

Buddha taught us about emptiness, Buddha taught us non attachment... desire being one of our attachments. So regardless of whether two people are in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship, there is no distinction, it is a form of attachment! So let us not focus on OMB, it is about same sex union but focus on hey, they are people too and they have rights like everyone else!

It is due to the ripening of karma that certain people have such behavior, hence there is no reason to discriminate them and neither to encourage such behavior, if some of  those people who could be converted back to straight.

I have heard of these so called "converts" you speak of and I have only one word for that... CONVOLUTED!

Or maybe we should consult our Spiritual Guide for advice, before inputting self opinionated views here?

No disrespect meant, but this is after all a forum... an open forum at that. It is here to discourse, to debate and share... This is how we learn and not from the comfort of our shells!

[lightning]

Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.

[lightning]

In the West, human rights are heavily and over-emphasized, but we must rely on what is right from the wisdom of the Buddha's teachings and seek appropriate assistance and advice from a reliable Spiritual Guide who can give appropriate advice.

[Big Uncle]

Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.

You have an interesting viewpoint here. Buddha has never talked about homosexuality as an unnatural act. In fact, he was silent about it. The 5 primary vows you talked about is to refrain from all heterosexual and homosexual activities. Buddha devised these vows to curb ALL sexuality and I believe these vows are specifically for the monastics who are training to transcend ordinary desire.

I think your issue is not that homosexual acts are unnatural. It is about your prejudices and your preconceived notion that homosexuality is unnatural. This is not a good mindset to operate from because it is the basis for homophobia and its not really about human rights.   

[lightning]

Finally I have an answer today that confirm my guts feeling. Yeah, sometimes guts feeling not not be always right, but serve as an indicator to make us find out what is right or wrong. Homosexual activities is not to be encouraged or something to rejoice about.  The engagement of sexual activities of homosexual is not normal, as anal and mouth sex is involved and considered as a sexual misconduct. It is considered as a violation to one of the 5 primary vows.

You have an interesting viewpoint here. Buddha has never talked about homosexuality as an unnatural act. In fact, he was silent about it. The 5 primary vows you talked about is to refrain from all heterosexual and homosexual activities. Buddha devised these vows to curb ALL sexuality and I believe these vows are specifically for the monastics who are training to transcend ordinary desire.

I think your issue is not that homosexual acts are unnatural. It is about your prejudices and your preconceived notion that homosexuality is unnatural. This is not a good mindset to operate from because it is the basis for homophobia and its not really about human rights.   

If you are thinking logically, how does homosexual activities are conducted, the sexual organs are connecting at unsuitable places. What is defintition of sexual misconduct? We are not having prejudices at homosexual, but the it is a fact that the sexual activity between homosexual is sexual misconduct itself. I have consulted from reliable sources.

[lightning]

From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism??? Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before??? Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view? By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect. I also feel that we should shared what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.

[Ensapa]

According to the vinaya, there was once a gay man who was ordained during the Buddha's time and somehow, he lost his inhibitions while in his robes and the story goes:

The Story of the Prohibition of the Ordination of Pandaka

At that time a Pandaka had been ordained in a residence of monks. He went to the young monks and encouraged them thus, 'Come all of you and assault  me." The monks spoke aggressively, "Pandaka, you will surely be ruined. pandaka, you will surely be [spiritually] destroyed. Of what benefit will it be?" Having been spoken to aggressively by the monks, he went to some large, stout novices and encouraged them thus, "Come all of you and assault me." The novices spoke aggressively. "Pandaka, you will surely be ruined. Pandaka, you will surely be destroyed. Of what benefit will it be?" Having been spoken to aggressively by the novices, the pandaka went to men who tend elephants and horses and spoke to them thus. "Come all of you and assault me." The men who tend elephants and horses assaulted him and then publicly blamed, rebuked and criticised [the sangha], saying, "A samana of the lineage of the son of the Sakyas is a pandaka and these samanas, even those who are not pandakas themselves, assault the ordained pandakas. When such is the case these samanas are not practising brahmacariya (celibacy)." The monks heard the men who tend elephants and who tend horses blaming, rebuking and criticising thus and informed the Blessed One of the matter.

The Blessed One then ordered the monks, "Behold monks. a pandaka is one who is not to be ordained. Monks should not give them ordination and those who have been ordained must be made to disrobe" (Vinaya, Vol. 4, pp. 141-142).

In case you have not figured it out yet, "destroy me" is a very polite way of saying penetrate me.

a Pandaka in the vinaya context (theravardan) has 5 categories. Anyone who fits into these categories are not allowed ordination in the orthodox buddhist context:

asittakapandaka—A man who gains sexual satisfaction from performing oral sex on another man and from ingesting his semen, or who only becomes sexually aroused after having ingested another man's semen (ibid. :235-236).
ussuyapandaka—A voyeur, a man or woman who gains sexual satisfaction merely from watching a man and a woman having sex (ibid. :236).
opakkamikapandaka—Eunuchs, that is, castrated men lacking complete sexual organs. Unlike the other four types of pandaka Bunmi describes, these men attain their condition after birth and are not born as pandaka (ibid.:236). 15
pakkhapandaka—PeopIe who by the force of past misdeeds become sexually aroused in parallel with the phases of the moon, either becoming sexually aroused during the two week period of the waning moon (Pali: kalapakkha) and ceasing to be sexually aroused during the fortnight of the waxing moon (Pali: junhapakkha) or, conversely, becoming sexually aroused during the period of the waxing moon and ceasing to be sexually aroused during the period of the waning moon (ibid.:236). 16
napumsakapandaka (also sometimes called simply napumsaka)—A person with no clearly defined genitals, whether male or female, having only a urinary tract (ibid. :237). Another definition of a napumsaka given by Bunmi is, "a [male] person who is not able to engage in activities like a man" (ibid. :239). Elsewhere Bunmi adds that napumsakapandaka are born without any genital organs as punishment for having castrated animals in a past life (ibid. :267). 17

Homosexuality is tolerated in Buddhism, but they are not allowed ordination due to the incident described above.

[Positive Change]

Dear Lightning… I mean no disrespect here, but seeing as we are in a public forum and hence healthy debates are good for us to learn and open our minds I would like to once again clarify your contradictory statements. Firstly, if one has no prejudices, one would not make such one sided and absolute sweeping statements. Why I say this? Please allow me to explain below in RED:

From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.
We are indeed all sentient beings viewed not only with equality but also with tolerance and compassion… the true Buddhist practice!

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism???
What is so bizarre about accepting people for who they are? Perhaps it is strange coming from a closed and biased mind. Perhaps it is strange coming from preconceived judgments or one sided opinion? All these point to a prejudiced mind!

Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before???
To view or gaze upon the image of a Buddha is in itself a great blessing. What is more to have an image of a Buddha on our bodies?  To have a Dorje Shugden pendant touching our skin is an incredible blessing and rarity! What does having empowerments of not have to do with wanting to keep a sacred image of a Buddha on our bodies… to remind us of the true potential we can become… to rid ourselves of our attachments, our selfishness and even our prejudices that keep us in samsara.

Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view?
Maybe? Perhaps you are deluded into thinking there are many who share your views in this day and age and that your views are perhaps pure in comparison to others. A conclusion like that seems very much prejudice to me!

By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect.
If this is not a prejudiced statement I do not know what is!!! I rest my case!

I also feel that we should share what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.
If we regurgitate merely the words of our so called Spiritual Guides without contemplating, taking it to heart, understanding it and actually believing it to be true, we have once again practiced a prejudiced thought.

Seems like your entire post is prejudiced, I am sorry to say… once again I do not mean this with malice but merely wanting you to look beyond the absoluteness of your thinking and come back down to earth so to speak. We are Buddhist after all and healthy debate is always a breath of fresh air. I do hope you can put aside your prejudices aside and at least agree with me on this point… if not, perhaps best you create a blog site where you can air your own beliefs but if you want to participate in a forum, you need to be open to constructive criticism.

[thor]

Lightning - would you prefer it if Buddhism is something like this instead? Doesnt it cause more damage?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/23/gay-mormons-marry-women_n_1620142.html

Should Gay Mormons Marry Women? Some Say It's An Option

SALT LAKE CITY (RNS) In the summer of 2008, Sarah Irish Nicholson's well-ordered Mormon life was unraveling, and she needed someone to talk to.

Nicholson's husband of 13 years, whom she had loved since they were madrigal partners in high school, told her he was gay. Latter-day Saints in her suburban neighborhood west of Salt Lake City kept saying gay-rights advocacy was Satan's work, she said.

Though the couple remained together at first, several local Mormon leaders were not only unsympathetic, they also were openly hostile to the news.

Nicholson, who still was clinging to her LDS faith, wanted a place to share stories, cry, laugh and encourage. She turned to straightspouse.org, an umbrella organization for some 55 similar groups.

But she felt many of those posting there were bitter and just wanted to vent. So she launched straightspouses.org, which invites people to join a private Facebook support group.

Last fall, there were 14 members. Today there are 45, mostly Utah Mormons, but some in other states and other faiths.

Now the rest of the world is taking note of Mormon "mixed-orientation marriages," as they have become known, thanks to a recent blog post in which Josh Weed and his wife, Lolly, told the story of their relationship.

Weed, a marriage and family therapist in the Northwest, has known he was gay since his teens, and Lolly was the first person he told. They've been married 10 years and have three daughters.

Weed's post went viral, generating more than 3,000 comments, and he was inundated with media requests.

Yet if Josh and Lolly Weed have become the LDS' best-known "mixed-orientation marriage," the stories of other couples in similar circumstances show there is no single answer for every situation.

Just a few weeks before Weed's revelation, a similar story was making the rounds in LDS circles when Ty Mansfield, a gay Mormon married to a woman, was featured on the May/June cover of LDS Living magazine.

In 2004, Mansfield wrote a section of the book "In Quiet Desperation: Understanding the Challenge of Same-Gender Attraction." As a single man with same-sex attractions, he didn't believe he would ever marry. Six years later, he met the woman who would become his wife.

"Sexuality is more fluid than we think," Mansfield, a therapist in Texas, said in an interview. "Everything fell into place, and we took that step. It continues to feel like it's the right move for me."

Some Mormons are also becoming more open about their decisions.

When The Salt Lake Tribune profiled three mixed-orientation marriages in 2006, for example, the article included the Weeds. At the time, Josh Weed insisted on using a pseudonym.

"For 10 years, I felt strongly we needed to keep things quiet," Weed said in an interview from his home in Auburn, Wash. "Then that changed. My wife voiced it first. We needed to be more authentic. It was time to tell our story."

On the other hand, another gay man in The Tribune piece, who lives in the Midwest and used the pseudonym "Landon," still guards his privacy.

"Our relationship continues to be like any marriage," he said in a recent interview. "Our commitment is not influenced by that [orientation] issue."

The most open couple in the article was Ben and Jessie Christensen, of Orem, Utah.

Jessie knew Ben was gay before they married but believed they could make it work. They had two kids in 2006 and were upbeat about the future. Now they have one more child and divorced last year.

"I still think that getting married to Ben was a good decision and that it was the right one at the time," Jessie writes in an email.

Ultimately, it may have been Ben's loss of faith that doomed the marriage.

"Neither of us realized at the time how much his homosexuality affected his membership in the church and his feelings about the gospel," she writes.

Jessie is a "wonderful, wonderful person. I love her as much as I ever did," Ben said. But he said he felt dead inside, conflicted and without peace. Now Ben hopes to find a man to marry as he continues to love and support his children.

Jessica Rodgers Trueman and her husband, who came out to her right before their 10th wedding anniversary, also eventually divorced. The pair met in the theater department at college. She had known LDS gays her whole life and saw no reason why anyone would be closeted.

So it "rocked her world" when, her husband, an active Mormon, told Trueman he was gay. He also wanted to keep his orientation a secret. "I didn't know who to talk to, didn't know who I could trust," she said. "I felt ashamed."

Friends in her Idaho ward have been "incredibly loving and kind," Trueman said. But she saw her husband slip into depression, disengagement and unemployment.

Finally, her husband got a spiritual confirmation that God loved him as he was. She knew then that they should get divorced, and both would get through it.

Trueman has recently found solace in Nicholson's support group. After all, the organization's founder shares her story.

When Nicholson's husband came out, the couple, who had four kids, stayed together. Then they had a fifth child -- a pregnancy that was tough on her body and on her mind.

She had lost her Mormon community and worried that her marriage was over. One night, she recalls, she cried out to God, "Just let me die in childbirth. I don't want to do this anymore."

Now, she is divorced and finds purpose in reaching out to other Mormon women facing a similar challenge.

She feels she has an important role to play -- sort of like a church calling.

(Peggy Fletcher Stack writes for The Salt Lake Tribune.)

[negra orquida]

Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/):

In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.

Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

[lightning]

Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/):

In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.

Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.

[lightning]

Dear Lightning… I mean no disrespect here, but seeing as we are in a public forum and hence healthy debates are good for us to learn and open our minds I would like to once again clarify your contradictory statements. Firstly, if one has no prejudices, one would not make such one sided and absolute sweeping statements. Why I say this? Please allow me to explain below in RED:

From the beginning, when I have started replying, I stressed that I do not have prejudices, in fact we are all human beings and viewed with equality.
We are indeed all sentient beings viewed not only with equality but also with tolerance and compassion… the true Buddhist practice!

What I cannot stand to see is the many bizarre congratulation and encouragement over homosexuality is accepted under Buddhism???
What is so bizarre about accepting people for who they are? Perhaps it is strange coming from a closed and biased mind. Perhaps it is strange coming from preconceived judgments or one sided opinion? All these point to a prejudiced mind!

Like previously, I have commented on what is wrong by having Buddha pictures and DS on human bodies, especially not on those who had empowerment before???
To view or gaze upon the image of a Buddha is in itself a great blessing. What is more to have an image of a Buddha on our bodies?  To have a Dorje Shugden pendant touching our skin is an incredible blessing and rarity! What does having empowerments of not have to do with wanting to keep a sacred image of a Buddha on our bodies… to remind us of the true potential we can become… to rid ourselves of our attachments, our selfishness and even our prejudices that keep us in samsara.

Maybe there are some folk may not like what I am saying, but I am pointing whether are the Buddha's teaching that we are upholding as Gelugpa is thinking correctly and having correct view?
Maybe? Perhaps you are deluded into thinking there are many who share your views in this day and age and that your views are perhaps pure in comparison to others. A conclusion like that seems very much prejudice to me!

By now many have known that Gelugpa is the best of four Vajrayana sect and also known as Manjushri sect.
If this is not a prejudiced statement I do not know what is!!! I rest my case!

I also feel that we should share what we learnt from our Spiritual Guides and not to share what we feel.
If we regurgitate merely the words of our so called Spiritual Guides without contemplating, taking it to heart, understanding it and actually believing it to be true, we have once again practiced a prejudiced thought.

Seems like your entire post is prejudiced, I am sorry to say… once again I do not mean this with malice but merely wanting you to look beyond the absoluteness of your thinking and come back down to earth so to speak. We are Buddhist after all and healthy debate is always a breath of fresh air. I do hope you can put aside your prejudices aside and at least agree with me on this point… if not, perhaps best you create a blog site where you can air your own beliefs but if you want to participate in a forum, you need to be open to constructive criticism.

First of all maybe I could not appropriately smooth-en my sentences during my reply, let me apologize for that and I meant well and wished that we are heading towards the correct direction during discussion as many would be learning and taken our words as truth. There are many things i have seen on the forum which seems to be a bit odd and at times unacceptable, why I choose to speak my mind because I care for the viewers who may come to learn. If we give the public the wrong info, we could implicate a lot people who would be learning from us and can be dangerous for their Buddhist practice. Wisdom of Gelug teachings must be maintained at high standard to ensure the purity.

For example I have commented on the shortcoming of having Buddha pictures Tattooed on bodies as it will be disrespectful if we have sexual intercourse. For those who had empowerment before should not have tattoo, as they have become the Samaya sattva for their Buddhist deity and will violate the Vairocano vows on having damaging own body. If I do do not highlight, next moment you could see a lot of people on this forum flashing their Dorje Shugden tattoos proudly, which will create a lot of damage to the Buddhist practise and Gelug teachings we are upholding.

When we rejoice on others who have good whole some deeds, we gain good merits and will reap the same good karma. but if we rejoice on deeds which consist of bad element, sufferings eventually follows. For example, John open up a fishing shop and enjoyed prosperous business, it may seem harmless to rejoice for him, but those who do not know that He had create the cause of killing by selling fishing rods and rejoicing that will which consist of bad elements will create suffering in future.

This is a degenerate age whereby there are practices that have gone deviate teachings and off course, such as there are association who do not recognized Shakyamuni Buddha as the head of the Buddhism for the current age.  As a Buddhist association, to my view, it is not encouraged to hold homosexual marriage, due to the element of sexual misconduct. Instead homosexual marriage should be left on their own and let's be tolerant and silent about it.

[lightning]

Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/):

In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.

Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.

Maybe you could try to ask Kalu Rinpoche if the sexual activities between homosexual is a sexual misconduct? Observe how he reply you?

[Positive Change]

Here is Kalu Rinpoche's stand on this topic (http://kalurinpochela.org/gays-lesbians-are-welcome-in-my-world/):

In a lot of religions in this world, gays and lesbians are not accepted… from my point of view, and I would say from a Buddhist point of view, gay and lesbian are welcome in my world. I’m happy to see how they love and take responsibility for each other and for their family.

Buddha never said to be gay is not good; to be lesbian is not good.

Buddha only cares about your happiness. God only cares for your happiness. If they do not care about your happiness, what are they talking about?  What is their point?

So don’t be sad, don’t be unhappy if you are gay or lesbian.

In a relationship, it is appreciation of the other that is most important. This is the quality that will bring you happiness… whether you are heterosexual, gay or lesbian.

In some relationships love comes first, deep appreciation comes later; in others appreciation comes first and love comes later. It doesn’t matter as long as you are happy in yourself and happy in your relationship.

Straight, gay, bi, lesbian... ultimately a homosexual and a heterosexual marriage is the same thing.. a relationship between two people who want to be happy and want to give happiness to each other.  That being said, i wonder why homosexuality wasn't as acceptable in the olden days, and why other religions reject it? as more and more people "come out of the closet", i wonder if the other "intolerant" religions will change their stance.

Kalu Rinpoche is a Karma Kagyu Spiritual Guide, we are basing on Gelug teachings to debate and the understanding of karma can be very detailed and refined that certain stand points may be omitted if one is not observant enough.

Maybe you could try to ask Kalu Rinpoche if the sexual activities between homosexual is a sexual misconduct? Observe how he reply you?

Well the thing is Lightning, you are losing the point. It is not the people (homosexuals) but the act in itself. You cannot equate homosexuals to be deviant beings that exude sexual misconduct. That is wrong view! Sometimes heterosexuals's sexual activities can also result in sexual misconduct. You cannot say homosexual = sexual misconduct. That is prejudice pure and simple.

I am merely pointing out that sexual misconduct is sexual misconduct regardless of whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual or whatever sexual! We rejoice that homosexual men are given the same rights as heterosexual men and women... that is all. We do not necessarily rejoice that people are having sex! After all sex is an attachment and if we can all stop having sex, a lot of our human problems can be solved!

Once again, if you are truly concerned at how people reading the threads on this forum would perceive things, look closely at how you word things... be accurate and do not make sweeping statements and absolutes when you yourself I am sure are not perfect.

A great Christian proverb "let the one that has not sin cast the first stone" in reference to the crowd wanting to stone Mary Magdelene when they found out she was an adulterer!