What would cause the Dorje Shugden ban to go down?

[Big Uncle]

According to Tk on another thread... http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1905.0

Within five years some high lamas have mentioned, the Shugden issue will resolve positively in favor of the Shugden practitioners which number into the millions around the world.

This is fantastic news! I wonder what would eventually bring the ban down? Does Dr Lobsang Sangye pursue Tibetan and gives up the ban? That's what I think will happen but what about you? 

[Lineageholder]

There's only one thing that will do it - the Dalai Lama says he was wrong and recants every negative thing he's said about Dorje Shugden.

I can't see it happening any other way, otherwise, even if people are 'allowed' to practise again, Dorje Shugden will always have the stigma of being a worldly spirit and those who practise will be seen as non-Buddhists.

[Ensapa]

the ban cannot last forever as more and more people investigate and realize the benefits of Dorje Shugden. It will come to a point where the ban would look illogical and people can no longer accept the ban as well as other nasty things that are said about the ban. the needs of the many will overshadow the needs of a mere few and it is at this point that HHDL will lift the ban.

HHDL has expressed in a happy way, as if he was rejoicing, when he mentioned that there was an increase of DS practitioners during the recent Kalachakra initiation. This is a very clear sign that he will lift the ban when he receives news that there are more and more people practicing Dorje Shugden, he will lift the ban so that more people can benefit and practice it openly.

Lobsang Sangay has proven to us again and again that he is a weak and incapable leader. This is not a good or encouraging sign for a prime minister to act or to appear. He is still always trying to hide behind the Dalai Lama's shadow and not trying to be true to himself or to speak up whenever necessary. Although it is possible that he is just too afraid of doing something too radical that the Tibetan society cannot accept...

I'm still placing my bets on the rest of the Dorje Shugden practitioners who keep their samaya and who goes in accord with the protector's wishes. At the end of the day, no matter what people say about Dorje Shugden but if the practitioners show results of their Dharma practice, it would overshadow the ban and all the nasty but untrue things that are said about Dorje Shugden.

[WisdomBeing]

Of course it is IDEAL if HH the Dalai Lama says that oops I was wrong and Dorje Shugden IS a Buddha. That could happen but honestly, I’m not holding my breath. What I think is more likely to happen is that when HH passes on, the ban will slowly fade away.

I believe that there are many great lamas who do not agree with HH’s stance on Dorje Shugden but have kept quiet from respect for HH and their own reasons which I have no way of guessing or judging since I do not know them. Some have decided to become lay persons and stay low profile, like HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche though i do believe he is living like a great lama that he is and simply biding his time. Also, since these lamas have attainments, I trust that they know what they are doing, and what they are doing is for the benefit of others. When HH is no longer around, I think these lamas will be able to continue their practice more publicly without fear or favour.

Buddha said “Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.” I strongly believe in this – that we should examine what is spoken, no matter who said it, and not just believe it because it has been rumoured by many people. We should examine the issue on its own merits and the many reasons for us to believe that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha have been well presented on this website. For those who are confused by the issue, please do read and contemplate on its merits, rather than rely on hearsay.

Here are a few links:
Contemplate this:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=46

Is Dorje Shugden a demon or a Buddha?
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=11790

Arguments for and against
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5525

Why Dorje Shugden has to be the bad guy
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.msg4504;topicseen#msg4504

[Carpenter]

A ban will not be lasting forever, no matter how strong a ban is or how serious a ban is, due to the law of impermanent, it will still be lifted, and it’s only the matter of time.

To cause the ban to go down, there can be many reasons.
1)   Dalai Lama step out and declare the real reason why he ban at the first place, and not officially announce the ban is lifted.
2)   Lobsang Sangye step out for his people and announce that CTA will not enforce the ban, all Tibetan will be allowed to practice what they want and still can get fare treat from the country.
3)   When there are too many people practicing Dorje Shugden, the number of people practicing is so great that until the ban is already does not matter anymore and hence, the ban will be lifted automatically.

[samayakeeper]

I agree with mostly what are commented here.

The good work being done by those groups of dedicating people in promoting the practice via websites and social medias, free distribution of Dorje Shugden images and written materials, setting up shrines with Dorje Shugden images for the public to make offerings to, promoting and talking to friends, colleagues, etc help tremendously for more people to understand the positive benefits of practicing Dorje Shugden. I do not know who you are but I salute you!

As for me, I will make my voice heard via this beautifully well done website and related social medias.

[kris]

In human history, there are many things which are banned previously but it is now OK. For example, people are not allowed to talk back to the kings; women are not allowed to vote; etc. Look at these bans now, where are they?

And what contribute to the removal of the bans? It is the knowledge. When more and more people has knowledge of the subject, they will find out something are illogical, and they will start saying, "hmm.. I think there is something not quite right here."

For example, the "logic" put out by HH Dalai Lama about the banning of Dorje Shugden, to me, they are very illogical, but the thing is, not many people know about it.

Therefore, it is important that we practitioners work hard and spread the knowledge, and when enough people making a point, the ban will be lifted.

So, in short, work hard to spread the knowledge will cause the ban to go down

[vajrastorm]

I believe that the ban on Shugden practice will be lifted if the practice spreads so rapidly everywhere and in an unstoppable manner. So much so that the ban will be seen as most ineffective in curbing the practice, so why have the ban?

So how can this wildfire-like way of spreading the practice of Dorje Shugden come about? For one thing, we need vehicles for global reach like the social media. This website is the best example. It promotes Dorje Shugden as a compassionate Buddha, the Enlightened Protector for this degenerate age, and gives all the reasons and evidence.It shows us how practicing Shugden is a Dharma practice, especially for this degenerate age, that will help us swiftly attain Enlightenment (our ultimate goal)for the benefit of all beings. It gives a channel for people who have received the benefits of Shugden practice to tell their stories to the world. it tells us of the peace-loving great Lamas and Masters  who were/are Shugden practitioners and who are spreading Dorje Shugden every where they go by their compassionate works of teaching the Dharma and building Shugden Chapels and Monasteries, and creating great Shugden statues.It explains and shows very clearly the nature and history  of the Shugden ban and controversy without fear or favor. In fact, it tells us everything about Dorje Shugden that anyone and everyone would want to know.

We all can do our bit to spread Shugden by actively participating in this forum, and be informed and knowledgeable people who will help the spread of Shugden practice, armed with the truth and the correct information from this website. Let's not dawdle, let's get going!

[pgdharma]

I dont think His Holiness The Dalai Lama will publicly announced  that he had made a mistake and  the ban  will be lifted. I feel that as more people understand and have more  knowledge of Dorje  Shugden and find the ban  illogical, the practice will spread like wildfire until  the ban die off eventually.

We should  support the dedicated people behind this website, those who distributed brochures, pendants, images  by  promoting  Dorje Shugden through social media to help create awareness.

[Rihanna]

In human history, there are many things which are banned previously but it is now OK. For example, people are not allowed to talk back to the kings; women are not allowed to vote; etc. Look at these bans now, where are they?

And what contribute to the removal of the bans? It is the knowledge. When more and more people has knowledge of the subject, they will find out something are illogical, and they will start saying, "hmm.. I think there is something not quite right here."

For example, the "logic" put out by HH Dalai Lama about the banning of Dorje Shugden, to me, they are very illogical, but the thing is, not many people know about it.

Therefore, it is important that we practitioners work hard and spread the knowledge, and when enough people making a point, the ban will be lifted.

So, in short, work hard to spread the knowledge will cause the ban to go down


Yes I agree with you Kris and also pgdharma. Knowledge is the key to dispel misunderstanding. When more and more people know the truth and the reasons why Dorje Shugden practice is banned, the more silly the Tibetan govt will feel to the point of embarassment. Also through the perserverance of Dorje Shugden practitioners in promoting the truth about him, alot of merits is generated for the ban to be lifted.

[tsangpakarpo]

The ban will go down if practitioners of Dorje Shugden do not give up hope and work hard towards the spread of Dorje Shugden's practice. Whether or not the ban will be lifted 5 years from now, if the number of practitioners increase tremendously and spreads to the entire world, do you think the ban will still have any effect?

With so many people on Dorje Shugden's side, no one else can say anything negative. The majority will prove that Dorje Shugden's practice is sacred and He is a Buddha. Hence many people practices Dorje Shugden.

All these will come true if and only if, the present practitioners work extremely hard to break the barriers in a peaceful manner. Do whatever we can to spread the practice. Tell your friends, use the power of social media, read more about Dorje Shugden to increase our knowledge so when we speak to others, we can speak confidently and that will attract them to the practice.

We can also support this forum and website which provides us with so much accurate information. Support by buying Dorje Shugden related items in the eshop. Statues, pendants, comic books, etc..suited as gifts as well! How amazing it is for us to offer a Dorje Shugden pendant to family and friends for any occasions be it birthdays, weddings, anniversaries, etc.

[dsiluvu]

In human history, there are many things which are banned previously but it is now OK. For example, people are not allowed to talk back to the kings; women are not allowed to vote; etc. Look at these bans now, where are they?

And what contribute to the removal of the bans? It is the knowledge. When more and more people has knowledge of the subject, they will find out something are illogical, and they will start saying, "hmm.. I think there is something not quite right here."

Yes this is definitely something I think so too! Most often we hear of bans being forgotten over time when there is no strong leadership and stability. This is apparent in the Tibetan community in exile now because what they have been creating is more disunity then anything else. Also think about they a government that is self proclaimed and in exile. They don't really have a country any more, sorry to say. So even if the Ban continues, there is no strong ground to it and definitely has nothing to with the world so to speak. So the only place that you cannot practice would be in Dharamsala,  but the whole world can and has that FREEDOM.

And if China promotes it, who dares say it is not OK? China is the strongest and NO 1 super power nation of the world right now. If it is their heritage, they can and will certainly make it big and we know no one can shut them down. So whether of not HHDL says He has made a mistake becomes pointless really. And when he passes, sorry to say, it really does not matter and the CTA says will hardly matter to anyone any more. HHDL has and is still their spokesperson and many listen now is only because of HHDL. But when He is no longer around CTA will no longer have anyone who really can be influential to the world.

So it is an opportunity now to educate the world as much as possible about Dorje Shugden and what better way to do this then through the technology we have today that reaches out to billions for FREE i.e. this website and Dorje Shugden facebook http://www.facebook.com/GyelchenDorjeShugden.

[dondrup]

Let’s look at the chronology of the events below:
1)   HH Dalai Lama had been practising Dorje Shugden (DS) all this while
2)   HH Dalai Lama suddenly said he is wrong about DS
3)   HH Dalai Lama enforced the ban on the DS
4)   In the future assuming HH Dalai Lama will lift the ban personally.  HH Dalai Lama might say that he was wrong about the ban and DS
 
It would be the most ideal if HH Dalai Lama were to personally lift the ban.  I can’t image how HH Dalai Lama is going to lift the ban.  HH Dalai Lama is an ambassador for Buddhism and is synonymous with World Peace and Compassion.   His Holiness’ decision to lift the ban will jeopardise his reputation and integrity.  Will HH Dalai Lama do it?  Perhaps CTA will have to do it themselves to protect HH Dalai Lama?

As the efforts overtly or covertly to educate the public and the World increased through dorjeshugden.com and other DS websites, supporters of DS practice, individuals, lamas, DS centres, etc., it is likely the ban on DS will wear out and loses its effect eventually.  Hence the statements by the high lamas that the ban will be lifted in five years’ time are timely as this will create the momentum for the ban to lift quickly.

When more and more are benefitted from Dorje Shugden practice, Dorje Shugden will become the mainstream practice.  All DS lovers had created and should continue to create the causes for DS to flourish and remain in this World for a very long time.  By then who will be bothered about the ban which has no basis from the very beginning?

[shugdenprotect]

Thanks for all the passionate sharing of points of view!

There may be many possibilities for “how” the ban will be lifted. However one thing for sure is the ban will be lifted because of the faith, commitment and pro-active dedication of practitioners like those who have vigorously kept this website and forum alive and vibrant with reliable information and sincere discussions.

I have witnessed several cases where friends got to know about Dorje Shugden, the website and this forum. Without any prompting, they come to their own conclusion that it is impossible that HH would impose such a ban on Dorje Shugden practice without a bigger purpose that will eventually bring great benefit to all sentient beings. Therefore, any logical individuals who look at the whole picture can rationally deduce that the ban is created for a superior purpose and that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit. In fact, after learning from the website and forum discussions, these friends develop deep faith in Dorje Shugden.

Thus, like suggested by many who have already posted, we must continue to share knowledge on dorjeshugden.net and this forum. We must also continue to prompt more traffic into these spaces to spread the knowledge and understanding to enable educated practice and spiritual progress. This is aligned to the basic formula of Buddhadharma: Virtuous intention –> virtuous action –> merits –> attainments and eventually enlightenment

[Aurore]

I personally think that the ban can be lifted if everyone plays a part. The spread of Dorje Shugden is what's dear to HHDL's heart regardless what it appears to be. I truly believe that because I have faith in the Dalai Lama and my protector. Therefore, the more people benefit from this practice, the more reasons for the ban to be lifted simply because the cause for the ban is for DS to spread. This makes perfect sense to me.

I also think that China will be the main country to be practicing Dorje Shugden in future. This is from analyzing a few facts. 1. It was prophesized by Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. 2. China's hatred in HHDL is indirectly encouraging more Chinese to practice DS. 3. China being the world's most-populous country with over 1.3 billion people with Buddhism being the dominant faith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#Religion). 4. Kangxi Emperor was one of the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. The Chinese will have faith in DS because Kangxi Emperor is considered one of China's greatest emperor.

If the practice of Dorje Shugden in China start to spread far and wide, the ban will naturally be lifted.
Logically, if spreading DS is the main key to lift the ban, everyone plays a part and are able to contribute towards the lift of the ban. How? I can't quite figure out. However, I think that we can distribute brochures, share our knowledge, articles and DS websites on social media and other forms of media (movies even), we can create a buzz. We should not underestimate the power of social media. If it's not effective, why would big brand names and advertisers use them? Let's do our part for this wonderful protector by helping lift this ban through social media.