Buddhism for Vampires??

[DharmaDefender]

I was looking at this website earlier and came across this paragraph (http://buddhism-for-vampires.com/the-tibetan-book-of-the-undead):

Vetalas and vetalis are often malevolent—like humans—but can be transformed by Tantric practice—just as we can. All sentient beings have Buddha-nature; the undead are no exception. Mainly due to karmamudra, it seems that there were many highly-realized vetalis in India at the time of the Mahasiddhas. No doubt some were famed as teachers as well as consorts.

In fact, at the dawn of Tantra, at least one vetali became fully enlightened in this way. She is Vajra Vetali, Queen of the Vampires, who attained Buddhahood as the consort of Yamantaka. Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote a hair-raising invocation of her that is regularly practiced in his Shambhala centers: “You enjoy drinking the blood of ego . . . As night falls, you cut the aortas of the perverters of the teachings.”

...

Ngak’chang Rinpoche once took a different approach. In 1992, he led a pilgrimage in Kashmir. It included a week-long high-mountain trek to a gompa located on the site of one of the Eight Great Charnel Grounds. His group encountered a party of Kashmiris, bearing a member who had died of altitude sickness on the trail. Because the two groups were walking in the same direction, they saw a lot of each other. At one point, the Kashmiris became increasingly agitated. They reported that the corpse was becoming restless—it was groaning and trying to sit up. Funeral rites had not yet been performed; possession by a rolang was imminent; and they began to panic. Ngak’chang Rinpoche’s students explained that he was a ngakpa, fully qualified to handle such a problem. The Kashmiris were dubious about a white Tantrika. They feared that the rolang would kill him, make him into another one, and then both would come after them. Nevertheless, Rinpoche sat with the body and performed phowa on behalf of the deceased. Watching him unafraid and unharmed, the Kashmiris eventually calmed down and concluded that the rolang had indeed been dispelled.

I realise the source is slightly... dubious (Buddhism for Vampires?). But aside from the fact it makes a pretty brilliant fireside tale, I point it out because in its way it is similar to the story of Namkar Barzin, but involves a different group and nationality of peoples.

Being that it is similar to the story of Namkar Barzin, it provides evidence that the story of Namkar Barzin can be true, that Dromo Geshe Rinpoche subdued the Mongolian geshe to become a member of Dorje Shugdens entourage.

[Ensapa]

I've come across that website before and the authors can be traced back to this lineage: http://www.aroter.org/ and it seems to be filled with lots of nice and wonderful stories about their founder, a tibetan mahasiddha that appeared in the early 20th century but oddly the founder of this chapter is a western terton and his wife with no recognition from any other nyigma lamas whose tradition they claim to be part of.

This lineage is suspicious as it lacks actual physical proof that the founders exist or that their teachings are authentic and that can be traced back to Guru Rinpoche or Shakyamuni. It is a very odd lineage as they claim that all attempts to photograph their founders ended up with the camera taking the picture of the clothes but with no one in them, as if the flesh was semi transparent.

This is the ngakpa in question: http://arobuddhism.org/lamas/ngakchang-rinpoche-and-khandro-dechen.html dont they look like authentic tulkus? Well, im not the one to judge but the lack of a proper lineage and the lack of transparency of the source of the teachings and fake lineage founders justified with "there is no safety in Buddhism to shake the ego" is just a bit too much for me to handle.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2791&start for more evidence..

I don't think anyone ever saw any tibetan version of this "Sutra of the Owl-Headed Dakini", precisely because it does not exist. The guys in Aro even give a "sanskrit" title to it but it's nowhere attested.

At best, it's been written directly in English, but like everything Aro related, it's a fake. The text is said to belong to the terma of khyungchen aro lingma, but since this personage never existed, you can deduce that her termas (and existence) are simply the invention of the british founder of the Aro "lineage".

This is exactly why checking out a lineage from multiple sources is important.

[DharmaDefender]

Fair point you make there, Ive no idea about that Aro lineage, never heard of them in fact. I just thought it was a pretty niche market they had going there, Buddhism for Vampires. Spose vampires are sentient beings too, and need the Buddhadharma...

Speaking of Western tertons, is there something wrong with the fact the Lamas Western? Not sure theres really a need to point out his race, as though it makes him less valid because of it. But I spose Im just nitpicking here...maybe this discussions better suited to a Nyingma thread!

[hope rainbow]

Besides the conversation on the authenticity of this school, vampires are all the rage at this time, movies and all... Maybe, that can bring a few people to learn a bit more about Buddhism...

One think always attracted my attention about vampires, and already as a child, when I was watching vampire movies, this is what I could not understand:

Stage 1 of the movie:
There are humans who are terrified at the idea of becoming vampires, TERRIFIED!

Stage 2 of the movie:
They have become vampires and they are now terrified at the idea of not being a vampire anymore (you know, with sun-light and all), TERRIFIED!

With more knowledge from the teachings of the Buddha, now I understand a bit better.
Be humans, vampires, dogs or even worms, we are TERRIFIED at the prospect of not being "that" anymore.

[Ensapa]

Fair point you make there, Ive no idea about that Aro lineage, never heard of them in fact. I just thought it was a pretty niche market they had going there, Buddhism for Vampires. Spose vampires are sentient beings too, and need the Buddhadharma...

Speaking of Western tertons, is there something wrong with the fact the Lamas Western? Not sure theres really a need to point out his race, as though it makes him less valid because of it. But I spose Im just nitpicking here...maybe this discussions better suited to a Nyingma thread!

There isnt anything wrong with western tertons, just tertons and tulkus who are unable to name their Lamas or whose Lamas say they never had such a student, or even imaginary lineage masters that does not exist anywhere, or imaginary sutras that cannot be found anywhere else although the Aro one is one of the most intricate ones that i have seen with a nice elaborate backstory that goes with it.

Its not just with nyigma lamas, it applies to lamas of any tradition, if they lack credibility or if their teachings or lineage masters are made up or have no source, its a very clear sign that something fishy is going on as legitimate teachers would state from whom they learnt it from and/or when. Most of the time the teachings can be traced back to a legitimate source and are recognized by several different masters

vampires are sentient beings and they want happiness, just that they have a different appearance and that they are too aggressive and deluded due to their aggregates in achieving what they perceive as happiness. we have deluded people around here too who think that they can achieve happiness by trying to get someone else's spouse or if they bring down another person's business for example.

If I am not mistaken there are Buddhas in the realm of the vetalis that would help them although there are many theories on vetalis which i am not sure which is the right or wrong one but in general it is probably a spirit that is trapped inside a corpse and kills others in the hopes of liberating themselves or gaining happiness. There are many ways to benefit these beings as well.

[Zach]

Leave the Nyingma Tertons out. The only one's we know about are Gelugpa Tertons

[Ensapa]

Leave the Nyingma Tertons out. The only one's we know about are Gelugpa Tertons

LOL. In Gelugpa, tertons will be smacked left and right by their Gurus and told to have perhaps, anti psychotic medicine haha, unless they can prove the source of their knowledge and get it checked out by several different masters or if it can be traced back to a lost lineage (such a the Cittamani Tara practice as well as our protector's practice by Tapu Dorjechang). So there are no Gelug tertons.

As my Guru always says again and again, if Buddhas are visiting you or talking to you, go see a psychiatrist because if highly attained Lamas like HHDL or Trijang Rinpoche does not claim to be able to do that, what about us? There is no way. Gelugpa is a rather strict and practical lineage where every single thing needs to have proof. Nothing is done without proof.

I once heard a lama mentioned that when he told the abbot of ganden that he was a tulku, the abbot laughed at his face until he felt extremely embarrassed and let go of that concept. The second that he did so, the abbot stopped laughing and told him "If you are really a tulku, prove it by deed and do a lot more than others. Study up the texts faster and be of greater benefit to others. Then you're a real tulku."

Gelug leaves not much room for just blind belief without evidence or without anything to back it up. In the Gelug system, a tulku must prove his worth before he or she is respected. this is one of the key features of Gelug that makes it "pure" as everything needs to be investigated and proven before it is accepted. And therefore, there is really no room for self declared tertons around.

[Zach]

Leave the Nyingma Tertons out. The only one's we know about are Gelugpa Tertons

LOL. In Gelugpa, tertons will be smacked left and right by their Gurus and told to have perhaps, anti psychotic medicine haha, unless they can prove the source of their knowledge and get it checked out by several different masters or if it can be traced back to a lost lineage (such a the Cittamani Tara practice as well as our protector's practice by Tapu Dorjechang). So there are no Gelug tertons.

As my Guru always says again and again, if Buddhas are visiting you or talking to you, go see a psychiatrist because if highly attained Lamas like HHDL or Trijang Rinpoche does not claim to be able to do that, what about us? There is no way. Gelugpa is a rather strict and practical lineage where every single thing needs to have proof. Nothing is done without proof.

I once heard a lama mentioned that when he told the abbot of ganden that he was a tulku, the abbot laughed at his face until he felt extremely embarrassed and let go of that concept. The second that he did so, the abbot stopped laughing and told him "If you are really a tulku, prove it by deed and do a lot more than others. Study up the texts faster and be of greater benefit to others. Then you're a real tulku."

Gelug leaves not much room for just blind belief without evidence or without anything to back it up. In the Gelug system, a tulku must prove his worth before he or she is respected. this is one of the key features of Gelug that makes it "pure" as everything needs to be investigated and proven before it is accepted. And therefore, there is really no room for self declared tertons around.

Tagpu Was a Terton of sorts a revealer of a hidden teaching from Lama Tsongkhapa.

[Ensapa]

Leave the Nyingma Tertons out. The only one's we know about are Gelugpa Tertons

LOL. In Gelugpa, tertons will be smacked left and right by their Gurus and told to have perhaps, anti psychotic medicine haha, unless they can prove the source of their knowledge and get it checked out by several different masters or if it can be traced back to a lost lineage (such a the Cittamani Tara practice as well as our protector's practice by Tapu Dorjechang). So there are no Gelug tertons.

As my Guru always says again and again, if Buddhas are visiting you or talking to you, go see a psychiatrist because if highly attained Lamas like HHDL or Trijang Rinpoche does not claim to be able to do that, what about us? There is no way. Gelugpa is a rather strict and practical lineage where every single thing needs to have proof. Nothing is done without proof.

I once heard a lama mentioned that when he told the abbot of ganden that he was a tulku, the abbot laughed at his face until he felt extremely embarrassed and let go of that concept. The second that he did so, the abbot stopped laughing and told him "If you are really a tulku, prove it by deed and do a lot more than others. Study up the texts faster and be of greater benefit to others. Then you're a real tulku."

Gelug leaves not much room for just blind belief without evidence or without anything to back it up. In the Gelug system, a tulku must prove his worth before he or she is respected. this is one of the key features of Gelug that makes it "pure" as everything needs to be investigated and proven before it is accepted. And therefore, there is really no room for self declared tertons around.

Tagpu Was a Terton of sorts a revealer of a hidden teaching from Lama Tsongkhapa.

from what i understood or read, he didint brought in new teachings but teachings whose lineages died off or whose texts went missing over the years. the teachings werent new teachings but teachings that used to be around but got lost over time. There were no other gelug incidents of these after that.

[WisdomBeing]

This is a fascinating topic.. vampires! Whether true or not, it was fun reading! Good points, Ensapa, about always checking the lineage to ensure authenticity.

I was curious about tertons though i had thought of tertons as only existing in the Nyingma tradition. I had not thought of Tagpu Dorjechang as a Gelugpa terton. I tried searching for more information about Gelugpa tertons but all i found was that the Fifth Dalai Lama, Lobsang Gyatso, of the new Kadampa lineage (Gelugpa) was a terton revealer. (http://www.khyenkong-tharjay.org/jamyangkw.htm)

Any other information about Gelugpa tertons would be appreciated!

[Zach]

Leave the Nyingma Tertons out. The only one's we know about are Gelugpa Tertons

LOL. In Gelugpa, tertons will be smacked left and right by their Gurus and told to have perhaps, anti psychotic medicine haha, unless they can prove the source of their knowledge and get it checked out by several different masters or if it can be traced back to a lost lineage (such a the Cittamani Tara practice as well as our protector's practice by Tapu Dorjechang). So there are no Gelug tertons.

As my Guru always says again and again, if Buddhas are visiting you or talking to you, go see a psychiatrist because if highly attained Lamas like HHDL or Trijang Rinpoche does not claim to be able to do that, what about us? There is no way. Gelugpa is a rather strict and practical lineage where every single thing needs to have proof. Nothing is done without proof.

I once heard a lama mentioned that when he told the abbot of ganden that he was a tulku, the abbot laughed at his face until he felt extremely embarrassed and let go of that concept. The second that he did so, the abbot stopped laughing and told him "If you are really a tulku, prove it by deed and do a lot more than others. Study up the texts faster and be of greater benefit to others. Then you're a real tulku."

Gelug leaves not much room for just blind belief without evidence or without anything to back it up. In the Gelug system, a tulku must prove his worth before he or she is respected. this is one of the key features of Gelug that makes it "pure" as everything needs to be investigated and proven before it is accepted. And therefore, there is really no room for self declared tertons around.

Tagpu Was a Terton of sorts a revealer of a hidden teaching from Lama Tsongkhapa.

from what i understood or read, he didint brought in new teachings but teachings whose lineages died off or whose texts went missing over the years. the teachings werent new teachings but teachings that used to be around but got lost over time. There were no other gelug incidents of these after that.

Terma's are not necessarily new teachings, Think Perfection of wisdom Sutra's taught by Buddha and revealed by great accomplished masters at a later date when the time was suitable. There have been alot of Gelug Tertons so to speak differing from Nyingma Tertons Gelug masters receive the advise directly from Lama Tsongkhapa...Remember the 5 visions of Losang Dragpa that Khedrup je saw ? directly from Je Rinpoche him self. Same thing apart from that the Gelug tradition places great reliance upon direct lineage rather then revealations like the Nyingma's masters who receive hidden teachings from Guru Rinpoche. The thing is with Mahayana teachings though most of them have been revealed by non Human sources as well.

[lightning]

It is said that the Black Manjushri mantra and the protection mantra wheel is effective against vampires. So far i have heard of anyone having direct experience of application against vampires and how effective it is? 

[Big Uncle]

I was looking at this website earlier and came across this paragraph (http://buddhism-for-vampires.com/the-tibetan-book-of-the-undead):

Vetalas and vetalis are often malevolent—like humans—but can be transformed by Tantric practice—just as we can. All sentient beings have Buddha-nature; the undead are no exception. Mainly due to karmamudra, it seems that there were many highly-realized vetalis in India at the time of the Mahasiddhas. No doubt some were famed as teachers as well as consorts.

In fact, at the dawn of Tantra, at least one vetali became fully enlightened in this way. She is Vajra Vetali, Queen of the Vampires, who attained Buddhahood as the consort of Yamantaka. Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote a hair-raising invocation of her that is regularly practiced in his Shambhala centers: “You enjoy drinking the blood of ego . . . As night falls, you cut the aortas of the perverters of the teachings.”

...

Ngak’chang Rinpoche once took a different approach. In 1992, he led a pilgrimage in Kashmir. It included a week-long high-mountain trek to a gompa located on the site of one of the Eight Great Charnel Grounds. His group encountered a party of Kashmiris, bearing a member who had died of altitude sickness on the trail. Because the two groups were walking in the same direction, they saw a lot of each other. At one point, the Kashmiris became increasingly agitated. They reported that the corpse was becoming restless—it was groaning and trying to sit up. Funeral rites had not yet been performed; possession by a rolang was imminent; and they began to panic. Ngak’chang Rinpoche’s students explained that he was a ngakpa, fully qualified to handle such a problem. The Kashmiris were dubious about a white Tantrika. They feared that the rolang would kill him, make him into another one, and then both would come after them. Nevertheless, Rinpoche sat with the body and performed phowa on behalf of the deceased. Watching him unafraid and unharmed, the Kashmiris eventually calmed down and concluded that the rolang had indeed been dispelled.

I realise the source is slightly... dubious (Buddhism for Vampires?). But aside from the fact it makes a pretty brilliant fireside tale, I point it out because in its way it is similar to the story of Namkar Barzin, but involves a different group and nationality of peoples.

Being that it is similar to the story of Namkar Barzin, it provides evidence that the story of Namkar Barzin can be true, that Dromo Geshe Rinpoche subdued the Mongolian geshe to become a member of Dorje Shugdens entourage.

I was told by my Lama that Vetali or in Tibetan, Rolang is a self-arisen corpse or more accurately translated as a zombie. But I guess a vampire could go under that category as well. I have also heard that Black Manjushri practice is particularly powerful to dispel a threat from a zombie/vampire. But I have not heard of anyone who has had that experience.

Apparently, in certain parts of Tibet where Bon practice was still strong, the threat of zombies and vampires are a very real threat. Anyway, tales of zombies and vampires are not restricted to just Tibetan culture but it is prevalent in almost every single culture. So, there must be an element of truth in these mythology.

[Ensapa]

Terma's are not necessarily new teachings, Think Perfection of wisdom Sutra's taught by Buddha and revealed by great accomplished masters at a later date when the time was suitable. There have been alot of Gelug Tertons so to speak differing from Nyingma Tertons Gelug masters receive the advise directly from Lama Tsongkhapa...Remember the 5 visions of Losang Dragpa that Khedrup je saw ? directly from Je Rinpoche him self. Same thing apart from that the Gelug tradition places great reliance upon direct lineage rather then revealations like the Nyingma's masters who receive hidden teachings from Guru Rinpoche. The thing is with Mahayana teachings though most of them have been revealed by non Human sources as well.

Hmm, this is interesting if you classify them as tertons, i think i learned something new today. One difference however between Gelug tertons  and the Nyigma ones are that the Nyigma ones often reveal something completely new such as an entire sadhana, a new mantra or sometimes even a new dakini or yidam while the Gelug ones tend to stay on the 'safe' side.

I guess the definition of terton can be quite wide in this context and if it is within the context of masters who reveal the hidden side of the teachings, that can be applied to Khedrup Je as well but for Mahayana teachings, they were only with the Nagas or in the god realms for safekeeping and Nagajurna went to those realms to retrive them because he had the capabilities to do so, i wouldn't really call that termas tho.

Fun fact: there is even a Dorje Shugden Terma that was revealed quite sometime ago containing the full prayers, except that instead of being Manjushri's emanation he is Avalokitesvara's and is not different than Guru Rinpoche himself. What does Dudjom Rinpoche has to say about this? hehehe. Now we can tell the Nyigmas that they are in fact blasphemous for making Guru Rinpoche stepping on himself.

In the book In Praise of Tara by Martin Wilson, there is actually a ritual that can be done to subjugate and place the rolangs under one's control, or to raise one by invoking the power of a certain Tara and by completing a certain ritual. I am not sure if it is a tantra or if i was supposed to read that, but i did and this was when i was around 8 and i found this book in my dad's cabinet and my heart welled with faith to Tara....

[Zach]

Terma's are not necessarily new teachings, Think Perfection of wisdom Sutra's taught by Buddha and revealed by great accomplished masters at a later date when the time was suitable. There have been alot of Gelug Tertons so to speak differing from Nyingma Tertons Gelug masters receive the advise directly from Lama Tsongkhapa...Remember the 5 visions of Losang Dragpa that Khedrup je saw ? directly from Je Rinpoche him self. Same thing apart from that the Gelug tradition places great reliance upon direct lineage rather then revealations like the Nyingma's masters who receive hidden teachings from Guru Rinpoche. The thing is with Mahayana teachings though most of them have been revealed by non Human sources as well.

Hmm, this is interesting if you classify them as tertons, i think i learned something new today. One difference however between Gelug tertons  and the Nyigma ones are that the Nyigma ones often reveal something completely new such as an entire sadhana, a new mantra or sometimes even a new dakini or yidam while the Gelug ones tend to stay on the 'safe' side.

I guess the definition of terton can be quite wide in this context and if it is within the context of masters who reveal the hidden side of the teachings, that can be applied to Khedrup Je as well but for Mahayana teachings, they were only with the Nagas or in the god realms for safekeeping and Nagajurna went to those realms to retrive them because he had the capabilities to do so, i wouldn't really call that termas tho.

Fun fact: there is even a Dorje Shugden Terma that was revealed quite sometime ago containing the full prayers, except that instead of being Manjushri's emanation he is Avalokitesvara's and is not different than Guru Rinpoche himself. What does Dudjom Rinpoche has to say about this? hehehe. Now we can tell the Nyigmas that they are in fact blasphemous for making Guru Rinpoche stepping on himself.

In the book In Praise of Tara by Martin Wilson, there is actually a ritual that can be done to subjugate and place the rolangs under one's control, or to raise one by invoking the power of a certain Tara and by completing a certain ritual. I am not sure if it is a tantra or if i was supposed to read that, but i did and this was when i was around 8 and i found this book in my dad's cabinet and my heart welled with faith to Tara....

a Dorje Shugden Terma ? Do you have any information for it and where it came from ?