Nuns behaving badly and disrespectful

[Galen]

Take a look at this! Nuns from Ganden Choeling Nunnery destroyed the statue of Dorje Shugden upon clarification from the Dalai Lama. How could nuns behave so badly to Buddha images especially since it is their Dharma Protector? It is utter disrespect when they drag the their Dorje Shugden statue on a rope tied to his neck, down the streets! It saddens me to watch this piece of news.

Even if they do not want to practice this protector practice anymore, they could have respectfully take down the statue and donate it to some other monastery who is still practicing. I am sure the other monasteries are willing to accept it. They do not need to destroy it!

This may be done only to be in the good books of the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama's Actions Part 2: Destroying the Gelugpa, Kagyu and Nyingma Traditions	Small | Large

After watching this news, do you think the Nuns should act in such a manner?

[Dhiman]

Statues of Buddha represents the quality and supreme teachings of the Buddha and must be respected at all times. Being naked in front of the Buddha and pointing your feet to Buddha statues are all acts of disrespect, not to mention desecrating the statue by breaking, stepping and spitting on it. Also, it is understood that desecrating a Buddha statue is considered as the same as stealing under the great Five Percepts.

Yes I believe the act of desecrating the holy statue by the nuns is very wrong. Even when the Dalai Lama approved of their suggestion, he actually gave correct instructions to dispose the statue which the nuns clearly did not follow. As mentioned in the interview part, the ritual did not go well because it was their first time doing it and the statue was destroyed in haste.

Additionally, disposing the statue does not require extreme acts such as spitting and sitting on it. The sangha should not be performing such actions which are extremely rude even on a general level since it is an act derived from scorn. They did not just disparage Dorje Shugden, but also all the great masters that consecrated the statue.

[shugdenprotect]

When I saw the title of this thread and watched the images, the first thought that came to mind is: we are really in degenerate times! Yes, it was normal for us to expect more from the sangha community who has committed to the honor of holding vows. In fact, nuns uphold more vows than monks (356 vows compared to 253 vows for monks)…making their moral discipline (at the very least), theoretically of a higher level. The poor behavior by these nuns of our time is a glaring reflection of the degeneration: Proving the accuracy of Lord Buddha’s prophesy.

Please do not get me wrong. I am not saying that it is OK for the nuns to behave in this manner. What I am trying to convey that the teachings of Lord Buddha’s omniscient mind is always right, thus the Dharma stating that Dorje Shugden being the perfect Protector of our time due to our Karmic link to Him must also be nothing but right.

So conclusion: seeing these nuns engage in such non-virtuous actions due to their three poisons should propel us to look deeper at the causes and move forward with solution oriented actions such as promote Dorje Shugden to the world even more fervently.

[vajrastorm]

A statue of a Buddha is the symbol of the Enlightened Body of the Buddha. Hence nuns who are schooled and steeped in a tradition of respect for symbols of the Enlightened Body, Speech and Mind of the Buddha, should never ever have treated a Buddha statue in any disrespectful way.

This desecration of a statue of a Buddha, spitting on it  and smashing it and throwing remains in a garbage bin bespeaks insanity, a mind that's completely shrouded in benighted ignorance! More so when this Statue of a beloved Buddha had been so reverently consecrated by great Masters, like Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche(  respectively the junior and senior tutors of HH Dalai Lama himself), Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Kyabje Rato Rinpoche.

 

[DSFriend]

This may be done only to be in the good books of the Dalai Lama.

After watching this news, do you think the Nuns should act in such a manner?

I do not think any religious objects should be treated in a disrespectful way. Even if we do not believe it in, the right behavior is to still give it the respect as many others believes in the faith.

With that said, do you think the karma will be heavy for such actions IF it is the instructions of their Guru? Would the karma be heavier to disrespect the guru or the statue?

[Dorje Pakmo]

While the Karmic repercussion of destroying a Buddha statue is serious enough, to further add on to their already unforgivable act, these nuns who are suppose to have taken vows spits and sits on it before breaking the holy statue into pieces before throwing it into a garbage dump?! Not very nun like, if you ask me. This is a Buddha Statue consecrated by His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche, Kyabje Song Rinpoche and Kyabje Rato Rinpoche we are talking about! Two out of the four are HHDL’s Guru who was also the founder of that very nunnery. Unbelievable! 

Even if HHDL asked to show support to the ban, there is no need to destroy the statue. The act of destroying this statue show direct disrespect to the founders of the very nunnery they are taking shelter in. As explained in the video, even if the statue was to be destroyed, there should be a proper ritual ceremony. This act of utter disrespect and mindlessness is obviously attempt to show HHDL that they are a 110% supportive of the ban and a ugly try to get in the good books of HHDL.

The statue consecrated by great Lamas who founded and named the nunnery. How blinded by ignorance and anger can one be? To have done such act. Never mind if you cannot repay the kindness of the great Lamas, what happened to respect for their items? It is a great shame that this is happening among fellow Buddhist. These people will be the most disturbed ones as soon as the ban is lifted.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

The incident of the nuns dragging the Dorje Shugden statue by a string tied to the neck happened in Dhramsala on a public place. Those who done the same actions to a stray animal would be scorn, what more a holy statue of a Buddha consecrated by the tutor of the Dalai Lama, who is also a high lama. Dhramsala is such a holy place, hosting HHDL official residence and offices, and so many other monasteries and temples in exile from Tibet. One can only imagine what kind of image those nuns were potraying to the laymen on the streets, witnessing such acts by the holy sangha members. Are we not taught to regard any image of a Buddha as an actual Buddha? It is also very disturbing to watch monks in the video stoning another monastery. All this is done in the name of wanting to get in the good books of HHDL?

[Manjushri]

I do not think any religious objects should be treated in a disrespectful way. Even if we do not believe it in, the right behavior is to still give it the respect as many others believes in the faith.

With that said, do you think the karma will be heavy for such actions IF it is the instructions of their Guru? Would the karma be heavier to disrespect the guru or the statue?

In the video, HHDL did say that a proper ritual has to be done before destroying the statue. What is the proper ritual and was it even done? Maybe the ritual would have been to reduce the karmic consequences of destroying a Buddha Statue?

Yes indeed, it is said in the 50 verses that if one doesn't follow the instructions of their guru, the consequences are much heavier than destroying a Buddha statue. But in this case, did the nuns carry out the instructions of their guru to the T? I doubt HHDL would have asked the nuns to step on, spit, sit and burn the statue?

If that is the case, the implications of such actions are much much heavier. I feel that the nuns took it a step too far. Not only did they destroy the blessings of a holy statue, they destroyed the blessings of their lineage lamas!

[pgdharma]

I don't think it's right to treat a holy/religious object in such disrespectful manner.  I feel the nuns have broken their nun vows and have gone a step too far by behaving and acting this way. Why are they so spiteful? If they do not believe in Dorje Shugden and wanted the statue to be destroyed, why can't they do the proper ritual and disposed in a proper manner. It so disgusting that they behaved this way, dragging, stepping, sitting, spitting, destroying and dumping the statue onto a dumping site. Due to their ignorance and anger, they not only destroyed the statue but also the blessings of the lineage Masters. Their karmic repercussions for such actions will be so heavy.

[DharmaDefender]

I saw this and I was shocked. People playing into politics just to look good, and abandoning their practices for this. Sad.

Did you lot see this first part?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/snqMBPGZzQA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I found it interesting how they accused Dudjom Rinpoche of being a Chinese spy, but said nothing about the Dalai Lama siding with the Chinese govts pick of the Karmapa. Odd.

Manjushri, dont think proper rituals are all that important or effective anymore when you have the intent to destroy Dorje Shugdens statue. Just think about it- could the Mindroling Lamas rituals destroy Dorje Shugden during the 5th Dalai Lamas time? No because he didnt have the karma to be destroyed, since hes not a spirit. Since he has no karma to be destroyed, he has to be enlightened... which means no matter what rituals are done, if the intent to destroy the statue is malicious, the destroyers will still reap heavy negative karma. When ones intent is malicious, no amount of proper rituals can pacify the amount of negative karma you will get from attempting to destroy a statue of an enlightened deity.

Saddest thing is, if anything shite happens to them, the nuns will probably be daft enough to blame Dorje Shugden for taking revenge on them, as though theyve never learn the concept of karma.

[Positive Change]

Nuns or monks are the Sangha, they are one of the Three Jewels, and I would certainly mean no disrespect to whomever wears the robe of an ordained person. That would be going against my refuge vows!

Yet, seeing how some ordained people behave challenges my perception.

So I wonder, what "makes" someone an ordained person? Is it the robe or is it the vows? I would say surely the vows, and not just appearances like a piece of clothing...

So what is there to say about ordained Buddhist nuns or monks when they destroy a Buddha image, are they still Sangha? By logic, they cannot be, can they? I am asking and searching for something that would make sense. Surely Sangha should not behave in such a manner but is that merely my preconceived notion of something which is after all is within the confines of samsara. They are Sangha and should know better but not all Sangha are perfect or they would be called Buddhas!

[Vajraprotector]

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso who is a strong proponent of Dorje Shugden said that Dorje Shugden is Buddha in:
An Interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso - http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1319
Youtube video -

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's Talk on Dorje Shugden	Small | Large

Lama Zopa said:
"My root guru, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche; Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru’s root guru; His Holiness Song Rinpoche, from whom many of the older students received the initiation of Shugden; and the previous incarnation of Gomo Rinpoche, who has a strong connection with Istituto Lama Tsongkhapa, here in Italy, all promoted the practice of Shugden. They were all aspects of the Dharmakaya."

If so many great masters were wrong, then why still believe in anything these masters teach at all? Why become nuns and study the commentaries, prayers and teachings that have been passed down through these Lamas who are now wrong?

Even His Holiness the Dalai Lama wrote praise to Dorje Shugden, in fact His Holiness wrote two! He cannot possibly make mistake twice?
Prayer by the 5th Dalai Lama to Gyelchen Dorje Shugden - http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=341
Melody of the Unceasing Vajra by the 14th Dalai Lama - http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=346

[LosangKhyentse]

These nuns are quite misguided. I feel sorry for them.

They will regret and one day soon apologize to King Dorje Shugden.

TK

[Carpenter]

There are many people who will be craving for attention, when there are situation happen, they will kind of over acting to show that they are more superior than the others, so when Dalai Lama announce the ban of Dorje Shugden, those nuns who assume this will make Dalai Lama happy or to show their capability of carrying out his likes or don’t likes.

It is very sad to see this situation, these nun’s action shows how much Dharma has degenerated, even 2,500 years ago, Buddha Shakyamuni has already prophesized that the real meaning of Dharma will be twisted and the nuns action clearly shows that.

There is no disappearing of the true Dhamma until a counterfeit Dhamma arises in the world. Once a counterfeit Dhamma arises then there is a disappearing of the true Dhamma. It is when, here in the order itself, hollow and foolish persons arise that they make this true Dhamma disappear. Baha'u'llah has confirmed that this false, counterfeit Dhamma is present in the world and is replacing the true Dhamma. In the Baha'i writings it is stated that the true Dhamma has been replaced by a desire for material things:

Today, all the peoples of the world are indulging in self-interest and exert the utmost effort and endeavor to promote their own material interests. They are worshiping themselves and not the divine reality. They seek diligently their own benefit and not the common weal. This is because they are captives of the world of nature and unaware of the divine teachings, of the bounty, of the kingdom and of the Sun of Truth.

These prophecies appear to describe accurately the present condition of the world with materialism, consumerism, promiscuity, drug problems and increasing violence and conflict. These problems are ravaging every society and undermining the pillars of all social structures.
Source from:
http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/buddhasa.htm

[Carpenter]

Nuns or monks are the Sangha, they are one of the Three Jewels, and I would certainly mean no disrespect to whomever wears the robe of an ordained person. That would be going against my refuge vows!

Yet, seeing how some ordained people behave challenges my perception.

So I wonder, what "makes" someone an ordained person? Is it the robe or is it the vows? I would say surely the vows, and not just appearances like a piece of clothing...

So what is there to say about ordained Buddhist nuns or monks when they destroy a Buddha image, are they still Sangha? By logic, they cannot be, can they? I am asking and searching for something that would make sense. Surely Sangha should not behave in such a manner but is that merely my preconceived notion of something which is after all is within the confines of samsara. They are Sangha and should know better but not all Sangha are perfect or they would be called Buddhas!

Wearing robes does not make someone a sangha, because a real sangha do practice Dharma from within their heart, their sincerity. Many monks and nuns nowadays are here to gain materialism, I saw how someone wear monk’s robe to ask for money, and after that they use those money for themselves,

To be monks or nuns is to act like one even before wearing the robes, it should be the main quality that one’s should be carrying since the beginning, and then wearing the robe is to firm up their holding of the vows.