harmed by Dorje Shugden?

[ratanasutra]

Is this the new way to put down Dorje Shugden and his practice? How the sacred Dharma protector can harm your wife? Because of her bleeding in that time so it was Shugden fault? Oh my, i do not know how you can put all this thing together, her bleeding, her dream and your dream all caused by Dorje shugden?

I only came across with the stories and experience of people received benefit from Dorje Shugden. If Dorje shugden harm people, all non-dorje shugen practitional should be dead by now and we can lift the ban esily. 

There is karma and it exist what was happened with you and your wife, it created by you if you believe in Buddhism, this was taught by Buddha NOT Dorje Shugden so it apply to everyone either Dorje Shugden practitioner or other.

I so sorry for you about your wrong perception which lead you for extremely suffering for now and future, you will never find the peaceful and happy again in your life if you do not change your mind set and attitude.

 

[Jessie Fong]

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2114.0

Yes this video would definitely be a great help for him.  He should see for himself how the respected Sangha took it upon themselves to behave so "un-holy".  Did they suffer from being harmed by DS for their actions?  Would they not have suffered much more than Mrs Gary since their behavior is atrocious?

Who in the right frame of mind would say that he has been harmed by a Buddha?
Buddha does not ask you to take revenge, cause harm onto others, threaten you.
Rather, no.  It is the reverse.

[Dorje Pakmo]

I do not have any knowledge of the content of the book so I have no material to justify what Gary said about NKT and the impending lawsuit should he proceed with the book publishing.

 
But I feel somewhat funny after reading Gary’s letter and the reason why he decided to withdraw his book from being published.  He said he could not match the legal costs of a libel case, because NKT have past history of engaging Schillings, one of UK’s most expensive libel law firms with a reputation of unremitting ruthlessness as their lawyer.  And further stressed,

 

As you know, England itself has a notorious reputation in international legal circles because of the huge imbalances in its archaic libel laws. These imbalances facilitate the issue of Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation,(SLAPPs) lawsuits served to intimidate and silence opponents by burdening them with the excessive costs of legal defence so that they withdraw any criticism or opposition. This was the background to the famous McLibel case in 1994 where two individuals, who could not match the legal might of McDonalds, were found guilty of libeling the huge multi-national in a leaflet they published.

These two individuals are environmental activists Helen Steel and David Morris whom McDonald’s Corporation filed a lawsuit against for distributing pamphlet bearing critical remarks to the company. The McLibel case is famed for being the longest running case in English History which started 11 June 1997 and ended 15th February 2005; McDonald’ used a huge sum of money and won two hearings of the case in English courts. However, Steel and Morris persevered with their appeal and on 15th February 2005, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that the original case breached Article 6 and Article 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights (EHCR) which is the right to a fair trial and right to freedom of expression respectively and ordered that the UK government pay Steel and Morris £57,000 in compensation. Although the ruling did not reflect the merits of their case against McDonald’s, the EHCR in their ruling exposed the notoriously oppressive and unfair UK libel laws which failed to protect public right to criticize corporations who business practices affect people and the environment, and a biased trial due to the defendants comparative lack of resources.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_Case

The story of McLibel case shows the determinations of two individuals who are set on revealing the truth behind McDonald’s unethical business conduct. Steel and Morris had hard concrete FACTs and are ready to go all out to battle against the giant corporation McDonald’s and not give up no matter what simply because they want people to be aware that the food they bought from McDonald’s are not as healthy as claimed and that it will harmful for health if consumed in large quantities amongst several other issues such as torture and murder of animals, destroying rainforests with poisons and colonial invasions. Steel and Morris went to great length to prove their claims and didn’t back down even after being intimidated many times. It would have been much easier if like Gary. They give up. And they could have given up easy when McDonald’s offered to settle the case in June 1995 but they didn't due the power of truth and factual discovery which Gary do not.

To Gary:

Gary, if you have so much FACT and do believe that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit that is SO FREE and will go around harming people who are against his practice, you should really persevere on to REVEAL the TRUE NATURE OF DORJE SHUGDEN! DO NOT ALLOW IT TO HARM anyone anymore especially fellow Buddhist! And if you as a Buddhist feel that it is not befitting your faith to be engaged in such embittered wars of words, then you should not have gotten yourself involved in this controversial and having write this book to begin with! You wrote a book claiming that Dorje Shugden is an evil deity in disguise of a Buddha and hope the world will share your sentiments. If you do have the FACTs and genuine studies to back it up, I am sure that there will be abundance of anti Dorje Shugden people out there ready to fund you to battle against this so called evil deity and those who are against the publishing of the book. The way I see it, it’s because your claims are mainly based on your own fictional imagination, lack of truth and you do not have the confident to fight on hence you withdrew.

You claimed that those who have offended Dorje Shugden experience the dream of strangling and the claw. As many in this forum have said, if Dorje Shugden is a vengeful spirit, then all of those who have offended it previously would have all been long gone wouldn’t they? Or were they like you, they got afraid and everything became allright all of a sudden? So you surrender to this evil deity? Because this evil deity so strong that even Chenrezig cannot subdue? Then is this evil deity more powerful than Buddha? The dream you and your wife experienced, sound very much like a scene from Buffy the Vampire Hunter to me. How funny that you can instantly link the bleeding from a growth in your wife’s uterus to Dorje Shugden. A GROWTH IS A GROWTH! It is a bodily thing that needs medical attention. Dorje Shugden seem to be responsible for all your bad experiences. Do you think the PROTECTOR IS REALLY THAT FREE? To give so much attention to you? There are many other more important people than you the protector would have chose to work on, if it was really an evil spirit.
Oh yes, you should FOCUS on the Dharma Gary. I agree with you on this one.

[sonamdhargey]

Dear Gary,

There are many people including the Sangha has so called offended Dorje Shugden such as destroying statues of him, create violence and attacked Dorje Shugden practitioners and so far there are no news that they were harmed by Dorje Shugden.

The dreams mentioned does not mean it is Dorje Shugden, more like wild allegations. How can anyone linked their bad dream to Dorje Shugden? How do someone by just dreaming can claim the evil spirit in his dream is Dorje Shugden?

What your wife experienced needs medical attention and having a growth is common and after your wife has gone for medial treatment, her condition became better. You claimed that your wife was harmed by Dorje Shugden, If Dorje Shugden is really an evil spirit as you claimed, then how come the attacks has stopped after your wife has received medical treatment?

[Benny]

Yes Gary i totally agree with Sonamdhargey and the rest on this forum. Honestly, if such hocus pocus allegations that you made were to be true then how do you explain hundreds of anti Dorje Shugden followers who has committed countless desecrations of this deity's shrine and images of him ever since the imposition of the ban goes on "UNPUNISHED" as you had alleged ?

Gary what you did or was about to do , PALES in comparison to what they did to enforce the ban. This does not even include the atrocities committed towards the thousands of Dorje Shugden practitioners who suffered unspeakable abuse and discrimination. If what you claimed is true then this deity must really "HATE" you or your wife only to say the least and all the victims of this ban must be really curious why their prayers for help to alleviate their suffering goes unanswered , that their tormentors are still at it. Sorry for the pun , they (the anti DS people) should have all bled to death by now, uh oh their "innocent" family should be cursed too or clawed to death if DS is so vengeful LOL.   

Gary, i suspect you are actually so filled with guilt for the unjust work you did that you are subconsciously tormenting yourself and your wife with these thoughts and nightmares. Why, for goodness sake you could at least have the decency to blame the nightmares as the manifestation of your wife"s tumour ! Maybe your wife is so "sensitive" or in tuned with her body that her mind is actually giving her warnings about the growth ! That the bearded demon in her dream was non other than the harmful tumour LOL. Luckily, it is NOT in her karma to have a malignant one, OM MANI PADME HUNG !

That my buddhist friend could have been the most logical explanation why she had the nightmares, please take care of your wife and try to collect some merits by BENEFITING other sentients , so that you may dedicate them to her for her speedy recovery.

[Ensapa]

The story of McLibel case shows the determinations of two individuals who are set on revealing the truth behind McDonald’s unethical business conduct. Steel and Morris had hard concrete FACTs and are ready to go all out to battle against the giant corporation McDonald’s and not give up no matter what simply because they want people to be aware that the food they bought from McDonald’s are not as healthy as claimed and that it will harmful for health if consumed in large quantities amongst several other issues such as torture and murder of animals, destroying rainforests with poisons and colonial invasions. Steel and Morris went to great length to prove their claims and didn’t back down even after being intimidated many times. It would have been much easier if like Gary. They give up. And they could have given up easy when McDonald’s offered to settle the case in June 1995 but they didn't due the power of truth and factual discovery which Gary do not.

To Gary:

Gary, if you have so much FACT and do believe that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit that is SO FREE and will go around harming people who are against his practice, you should really persevere on to REVEAL the TRUE NATURE OF DORJE SHUGDEN! DO NOT ALLOW IT TO HARM anyone anymore especially fellow Buddhist! And if you as a Buddhist feel that it is not befitting your faith to be engaged in such embittered wars of words, then you should not have gotten yourself involved in this controversial and having write this book to begin with! You wrote a book claiming that Dorje Shugden is an evil deity in disguise of a Buddha and hope the world will share your sentiments. If you do have the FACTs and genuine studies to back it up, I am sure that there will be abundance of anti Dorje Shugden people out there ready to fund you to battle against this so called evil deity and those who are against the publishing of the book. The way I see it, it’s because your claims are mainly based on your own fictional imagination, lack of truth and you do not have the confident to fight on hence you withdrew.

You claimed that those who have offended Dorje Shugden experience the dream of strangling and the claw. As many in this forum have said, if Dorje Shugden is a vengeful spirit, then all of those who have offended it previously would have all been long gone wouldn’t they? Or were they like you, they got afraid and everything became allright all of a sudden? So you surrender to this evil deity? Because this evil deity so strong that even Chenrezig cannot subdue? Then is this evil deity more powerful than Buddha? The dream you and your wife experienced, sound very much like a scene from Buffy the Vampire Hunter to me. How funny that you can instantly link the bleeding from a growth in your wife’s uterus to Dorje Shugden. A GROWTH IS A GROWTH! It is a bodily thing that needs medical attention. Dorje Shugden seem to be responsible for all your bad experiences. Do you think the PROTECTOR IS REALLY THAT FREE? To give so much attention to you? There are many other more important people than you the protector would have chose to work on, if it was really an evil spirit.
Oh yes, you should FOCUS on the Dharma Gary. I agree with you on this one.

It is obvious that Gary is suffering from the crusader syndrome as he thinks he is doing the world a big favor by publishing that book. Sadly, to Buddhists it just goes to show that his lack of understandings of the situation and his selective research just goes to show that he has no Buddhist values at all and that he is just doing this as a cover for his insecurities. It shows his blatant lack of understanding and faith in the Dharma and his lack of investigation towards things as well as his ignorance. Like I have mentioned in my previous post, he did the whole thing with the wrong motivations and sees it as the easy way out for his spiritual solutions. I say he needs a psychiatric evaluation to see if he suffers from borderline personality disorder as i feel that he is struggling with problems such as paranoia.

I still do not understand why people fail to see two sides of the coin and insist on seeing only one side of the story and they sell their story as the full story when it is only a one sided affair that is quite heavily biased and brings little or no benefit to people and cause them only more misunderstandings in the long run. Their books and works may only be believed by the gullible individuals and not by people who know better. This is the age of information and the internet, and many people can easily find out for themselves the truth. What Gary wrote against Dorje Shugden is of a seditious nature that is inaccurate and poorly researched and having a defamatory case against him would kind of fit the bill. It would be different if he had cold hard facts about Dorje Shugden rather than one sided material.

The whole blame it on Dorje Shugden thing tells everyone very clearly how little he understand about Buddhism and how easy and quick he is to blame something or someone else for his own problems. The wife's growth could have been there even before he started with the book. Also, notice that he does not provide much detail on the wife's condition and perhaps it developed over time and nobody noticed and now it suddenly became full blown, but he prefers to go with a more superstitious answer compared to going with a more concrete answer.

We can only hope that he does wake up from his dream and take a more neutral stance towards Dorje Shugden, and forgive NKT for whatever that NKT has done to him as doing that is part of Buddhist practice in the first place

[Tammy]

We are responsible to our own karma - hence how can the husband's negative karma due to his own wrong doings befall onto the wife? Similarly it is very wrong to say that someone's sin will lead to the downfall of his/her offsprings.

For those born in the same family (or becomes partners to each other) our cosmic link is very strong.

If we have a child who is very problematic, so much heartache and sleepless nights that we suffer because of this child, its because we must have done something negative onto them in our previous lives. Hence its 'payback time'; the other scenario / possibility is this being is creating negative karma by harming us this lifetime, hence he/she will have to take the responsibility when the negative karma rippen.

[Ensapa]

We are responsible to our own karma - hence how can the husband's negative karma due to his own wrong doings befall onto the wife? Similarly it is very wrong to say that someone's sin will lead to the downfall of his/her offsprings.

For those born in the same family (or becomes partners to each other) our cosmic link is very strong.

If we have a child who is very problematic, so much heartache and sleepless nights that we suffer because of this child, its because we must have done something negative onto them in our previous lives. Hence its 'payback time'; the other scenario / possibility is this being is creating negative karma by harming us this lifetime, hence he/she will have to take the responsibility when the negative karma rippen.

We are responsible for our own karma, but karma also forms attitudes and it is those attitudes that will drag the people around us down. Negative karma can also manifest as negative energy that can pull people around us down, including our loved ones. Some people might also end up to be delusional and that also affects people around them. So in this case, it could be that the husband's irrational fear of Dorje Shugden has generated negative energy that was so bad that it caused the wife to hallucinate.

[harrynephew]

“......those who know anything about the experiences of those who have offended Shugden will recognize both of these, the strangling and the claw..”

Offended Shugden??? Oh my, either he has misunderstanding or being misguided that Dorje Shugden can be easily offended and “take revenge”?! Very unlikely and he won’t, for Dorje Shugden is an enlightened dharma protector having the same nature of a Buddha Manjushri, Je Tsongkhapa, Mahakala and Kalarupa. 
http://www.dorjeshugden.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=734&catid=1&Itemid=30

Gyara Tulku Rinpoche from Drepung Loseling Monastery wrote a prayer of gratitude, whose sentiments are shared by Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide:

"First you gave me a highly qualified Spiritual Guide ?
Under whom I studied and practised Dharma. ?
When through following misleading advice I came close to entering wrong paths,
You immediately hooked me back into the correct path.

O Duldzin, King of the Dharma, I thank you for your kindness. ?
Your body is the synthesis of all Sangha Jewels, ?
Your speech is the synthesis of all Dharma Jewels, ?
And your mind is the synthesis of all Buddha Jewels."

Well, Karma is the name of the game here and not Dorje Shugden.

Beautiful prayer and praise which makes us think and reflect on the qualities of the mighty being called Dorje Shugden. I have read the story and claims but the problem with the story is, it is not convincing. You might refute saying that my faith is very adamant on Dorje Shugden. But also bear in mind that my entire being is also fixated on the understanding of things and situations through logic and reasoning.

What empowers me from this saga is that people are people at the end of the day. When they challenge the divine, they're looking for trouble for themselves when they have not made enough effort and reasoning behind everything they've said. What more there's karma who's keeping watch of everything in movement and at rest.

[Ensapa]

“......those who know anything about the experiences of those who have offended Shugden will recognize both of these, the strangling and the claw..”

Offended Shugden??? Oh my, either he has misunderstanding or being misguided that Dorje Shugden can be easily offended and “take revenge”?! Very unlikely and he won’t, for Dorje Shugden is an enlightened dharma protector having the same nature of a Buddha Manjushri, Je Tsongkhapa, Mahakala and Kalarupa. 
http://www.dorjeshugden.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=734&catid=1&Itemid=30

Gyara Tulku Rinpoche from Drepung Loseling Monastery wrote a prayer of gratitude, whose sentiments are shared by Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide:

"First you gave me a highly qualified Spiritual Guide ?
Under whom I studied and practised Dharma. ?
When through following misleading advice I came close to entering wrong paths,
You immediately hooked me back into the correct path.

O Duldzin, King of the Dharma, I thank you for your kindness. ?
Your body is the synthesis of all Sangha Jewels, ?
Your speech is the synthesis of all Dharma Jewels, ?
And your mind is the synthesis of all Buddha Jewels."

Well, Karma is the name of the game here and not Dorje Shugden.

Beautiful prayer and praise which makes us think and reflect on the qualities of the mighty being called Dorje Shugden. I have read the story and claims but the problem with the story is, it is not convincing. You might refute saying that my faith is very adamant on Dorje Shugden. But also bear in mind that my entire being is also fixated on the understanding of things and situations through logic and reasoning.

What empowers me from this saga is that people are people at the end of the day. When they challenge the divine, they're looking for trouble for themselves when they have not made enough effort and reasoning behind everything they've said. What more there's karma who's keeping watch of everything in movement and at rest.

Thank you HarryNephew for the interesting prayers and for your insight on this matter. To me, one of the most disturbing, if i could use that word, aspect of this is the fact that an educated man being reduced to a superstitious person due to irrational fear and the complete lack of logic when talking about matters like these. This person actually represents the lot of the Dalai Lama's followers who follow the Dalai Lama out of blind faith and superstition as opposed to sound logic and reasoning. There are many more garys out there, irregardless of whether or not they blame Dorje Shugden, they still think that Dorje Shugden is negative due to blind faith in the Dalai Lama.

[fruven]

Dreams doesn't form the basis of medical diagnose . You don't tell your dream to your doctor when you are physically ill. It has been proven that dreams can be unreliable and can be misinterpreted. Even very young children who have flashback of previous life are subjected to close scrutiny to determine whether they are making up pictures on their own or they heard it from someone else. What is more to say an adult who can manipulate what he or she says. There is no evidence to it. It is pure blaming your misfortune on someone else shoulders. Dharma is about taking responsibility and giving knowledge, care, and help, not to create disharmony and separate people from their faiths.

[Ensapa]

Dreams doesn't form the basis of medical diagnose . You don't tell your dream to your doctor when you are physically ill. It has been proven that dreams can be unreliable and can be misinterpreted. Even very young children who have flashback of previous life are subjected to close scrutiny to determine whether they are making up pictures on their own or they heard it from someone else. What is more to say an adult who can manipulate what he or she says. There is no evidence to it. It is pure blaming your misfortune on someone else shoulders. Dharma is about taking responsibility and giving knowledge, care, and help, not to create disharmony and separate people from their faiths.

I like what you have wrote there, fruven, because to believe in dreams as adults is something that is rather superstitious. Dreams can be a result of one's intense emotions. Perhaps the author was too afraid and he focused too much on the descriptions found in the yellow book that he imagined the whole thing out. But then again, he probably thought that he was doing the world a huge favor if he wrote something against Dorje Shugden and against NKT even if it means harming many people who would be misled by his material. The other side of the whole thing is that he managed to turn back to real Dharma practice and not be affected by all the unnecessary dramas that does not aid him in his personal Dharma practice at all.

[Zach]

If you are worried about Evil spirits here are a few Buddhist tips for you !

1. Take Refuge in the 3 jewels its a guaranteed method of protection.
2. Rely upon your Guru.
3. Rely upon Arya Tara.
4. Rely upon Vajrapani

Now if you are stilled worried I would mention that high Lamas have no trouble dealing with any spirit through various accomplishments and rituals spirits can be subdued or killed. Now if great masters cannot subdue or kill a spirit it shows that they are not great masters or that the being they seek to deal with is not a spirit.

So why worry about Dorje Shugden ? As a Dharma protector all those that offend the doctrine of Je Tsongkhapa, His disciples, Centre's and so forth, engage in actions that are harmful toward the growth of this lineage will experience various signs of his displeasure.

So if these points I have suggested about protection from spirits does not work if you seek to deliberately harm those who practice Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine and proper-gate his Dharma protector or obstruct their growth even if you practice Guru Dragphur you will not be protected because this being Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued he is unrelenting, he is no mere spirit but the great emanated Manjushri as told by our lineage Guru's.

Dharma protectors can indeed be fearsome as such their capacity to protect the Dharma and guide practitioners is un-contended.

The very fact that Dorje Shugden is here today despite all the attempts to wipe him out, from the mistaken view of the 5th Dalai lama who later recanted and recognised him as enlightened, From up until the modern day when Hayagriva rituals where performed against him with no success, later the sangha community whom followed Dorje Shugden where excluded from their monasteries, their situation looked desperate but Dorje Shugden acts as a supreme protector for those who face such difficulty and as such they now occupy their own monastery's with international support.

It is even within the Nyingmapa's own terma's that Dhogyal is none other then the great compassionate one Avalokiteshvara himself.

If one seeks to harm the Guru's the Sangha's or the centre's of such Dharma practitioners be warned you will have no protection against Dorje Shugden save his compassion.

[Ensapa]

If you are worried about Evil spirits here are a few Buddhist tips for you !

1. Take Refuge in the 3 jewels its a guaranteed method of protection.
2. Rely upon your Guru.
3. Rely upon Arya Tara.
4. Rely upon Vajrapani

Now if you are stilled worried I would mention that high Lamas have no trouble dealing with any spirit through various accomplishments and rituals spirits can be subdued or killed. Now if great masters cannot subdue or kill a spirit it shows that they are not great masters or that the being they seek to deal with is not a spirit.

So why worry about Dorje Shugden ? As a Dharma protector all those that offend the doctrine of Je Tsongkhapa, His disciples, Centre's and so forth, engage in actions that are harmful toward the growth of this lineage will experience various signs of his displeasure.

So if these points I have suggested about protection from spirits does not work if you seek to deliberately harm those who practice Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine and proper-gate his Dharma protector or obstruct their growth even if you practice Guru Dragphur you will not be protected because this being Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued he is unrelenting, he is no mere spirit but the great emanated Manjushri as told by our lineage Guru's.

Dharma protectors can indeed be fearsome as such their capacity to protect the Dharma and guide practitioners is un-contended.

The very fact that Dorje Shugden is here today despite all the attempts to wipe him out, from the mistaken view of the 5th Dalai lama who later recanted and recognised him as enlightened, From up until the modern day when Hayagriva rituals where performed against him with no success, later the sangha community whom followed Dorje Shugden where excluded from their monasteries, their situation looked desperate but Dorje Shugden acts as a supreme protector for those who face such difficulty and as such they now occupy their own monastery's with international support.

It is even within the Nyingmapa's own terma's that Dhogyal is none other then the great compassionate one Avalokiteshvara himself.

If one seeks to harm the Guru's the Sangha's or the centre's of such Dharma practitioners be warned you will have no protection against Dorje Shugden save his compassion.

I think there are many people around who does not have a firm foundation in Dharma who are investigating the "deeper" practices where they are not supposed to and in the end they get misunderstandings and they give up Buddhism altogether. There are many resources around that do point them to the right direction but then nobody these days want to work with the basics and they want to aim for the more advanced teachings and expect to understand them. This is the risk where advanced practices are made available for reading widely and people chose to skip the "boring" basics for material that they perceive is higher.

[Big Uncle]

I am re-visiting this thread again and I am really tickled to think that some people would still believe that Dorje Shugden is capable of harming anybody. This is unless people who know nothing of Tibetan Buddhism, comes across a wrathful image of Dorje Shugden. However, I do hear that people find Dorje Shugden's wrath, a point of attraction rather than something to be feared of. Even Dorje Shugden in his most ferocious form as Yamantaka, is still attractive to certain people. Besides allegations from the Dalai Lama's camp, I cannot imagine how anybody would imagine Dorje Shugden is capable of harming anybody. On top of that, I don't see anybody have posted anything negative.