Criticisms against DS practitioners

[DharmaDefender]

Ive been on the Dulzin Facebook page today and seen some comments that just really pissed me off. Tibetans piss me off for:


1. criticising Dorje Shugden protestors for being Western.

First, you dont help India because you create trouble and protests all of the time. Come on - the Indian govt risked their relationship with China to open their doors to you, and thats how you repay them?

Second, YOU move to OUR countries seeking refuge. In fact, once the Dalai Lama passes into clear light, how many of the richer Tibetans do you think will hang around to languish in the hills of Dharmasala? Trust me, most will grab at any chance for a green card. So you come to our countries because you couldnt keep yours...then criticise us?

Third, you USE our welfare systems. Nuff said. My taxes go into your pockets. And on top of that you work cash in hand, tax free. Oh come on, dont deny it, you know you do.

Fourth, you make use of the freedom of speech we give to everyone. Then you take that right and throw a strop and say we dont understand your culture, we cant comment on your culture etc etc. Newsflash mate - we CAN comment on your culture because its what we call FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

One word to describe the Tibetans: parasites. You travel the world leeching off anyone you can, thinking its okay and all you do is fight for yourself. You fight for YOUR culture, YOUR language, YOUR homeland, YOUR right to this that and the other. You dont fight for anyone else. When was the last time you saw Tibetans coming together to protest for a free Burma? When was the last time you saw Tibetans up in arms about the human rights abuses in Africa?

Westerners donate, Westerners write, Westerners protest and Westerners speak up for everyone who needs a voice. Radio Free Asia? Run by Westerners. Voice of America? Run by Westerners. So dont give us this bollocks where you use us when were good for you, then dismiss our opinions when were not good enough.

Im not saying Westerners are all wonderful but cut us some slack - I didnt CHOOSE to become white. Just like how you didnt choose to become Tibetan. Its friggin karma.

And by the way who the hell do you think taught us Dorje Shugden practice? Jesus Christ? No it was Lama Yeshe, Geshela, Gangchen Rinpoche, Lama Zopa, Zawa Tulku, Geshe Tsultim Gyeltsen...all these lamas who took to the West. If they thought the West was good enough to receive Dorje Shugden practice, then why the hell dont you??? Who are you compared to these great masters?


2. criticising the Dorje Shugden protestors for accepting Communist money.

First, the Dalai Lama is now making friends with China by saying their alright, Mao Zedong was like a father to him, etc etc. Since your all sheep and blindly follow as the CTAs mouthpieces, since the CTA are now is hinting Chinas alright, get with the programme and stop using Communist as an insult.

Second, our govts fund yours. If taxes and money from Dorje Shugden practitioners is so unclean, give it back. Give back to us our buildings, our monasteries, our roads, our houses, our schools, our hospitals. Why are they ours? OUR donors donated them to you. Plus I heard these disturbing stories recently about how non-DS practitioners have been backstabbing high lamas and stealing their donors. Wow. Ace job guys, bringing down the Dharma that way by playing whispers with donors.

Third, if I had a penny for every time that Communist criticism was levelled against me and it were true, Id be off somewhere in the Bahamas getting a nice tan, telling you lot to sod off.

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Okay, rant over.

What other criticisms do you lot have to face as Dorje Shugden practitioners? Come on, lets have a good rant about it. After all, were white arent we? Our opinions dont matter

[Ensapa]

Well for one, most Tibetans think they can say whatever they want online and they will have no consequences. So their posts can be incredibly childish and filled with expletives  which is amusing as most of them are in their 20s and 30s but still type like 5 year olds. Also consider the fact that most of their accusations are unfounded, shaky and basically ridiculous by all means, and usually they will keep quiet after you give them facts. In any case, the Duldzin facebook page also attracts Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners and they have left a huge amount of positive comments there at the same time.

[Big Uncle]

Well, the thing is that these Tibetan people are largely uneducated and/or unexposed and hence, their view is limited and for many of them, they hardly think things through before coming to a conclusion. Hence, many abuse power and position that they are given and although they proclaim to be Buddhist but they hardly know anything about the deities except who they worship at home. I guess in some ways, that also explains why Tibet was lost to the Chinese and they are unable to recover it till this day.

However, every Tibetan definitely know Dorje Shugden but they would not want to loo any deeper into the reasons for the Dalai Lama to ban this protector deity. They just follow blindly like a herd of buffalos. So, when they come across Dorje Shugden practitioners, that's what they will say (as described earlier int he thread) because they are not capable of thinking bigger and wider. And worse of all, when you present them with a logical explanation that supports Dorje Shugden practice, they react in fear, anger and vulgarities. I guess it is overwhelming for a simple Tibetan to think any deeper and so they just go into a reaction as they refuse to accept anything outside of their set belief system. That's my summary of how Tibetans react to comments and postings by Dorje Shugden practitioners.

[dsiluvu]

Oh no need to bother DD... they do not have a country and they are obviously in much pain and suffering... they need love and light hahaha okay okay... I know this sounds super holy goody goody cheesy but it is kinda true.

Just think how much suffering they are emotionally and mentally are and what they are going through and having to face. They are in huge denial, and they do not have any security net especially having no proper Govt to even guide them or motivate them...

The only one person holding them together still, giving them hope is HH the Dalai Lama and even HHDL is slowly losing grip of it all because people get tired and start to disbelief after awhile...as in the case of TYC not agreeing in HHDL's autonomy vision http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lama-loses-control/  This is all karma returning back in full circle to them!

And soon which is a sad unfortunate truth, the Dalai Lama will no longer be around. A hard fact most will have to face and find hard to accept. The "smarter" richer ones have migrated, got themselves a citizenship of another country, living the life, being free... and nothing wrong with that... in fact I think those are the smart ones. If I had money and I had a givt like CTA... I would migrate as well. It's survival of the fetus with them now cos you can forget about challenging China. Only way is to become friends and stop killing themselves.

All I can say about these silly Tibetans is precisely in this quote...

[Ensapa]

Oh no need to bother DD... they do not have a country and they are obviously in much pain and suffering... they need love and light hahaha okay okay... I know this sounds super holy goody goody cheesy but it is kinda true.

Just think how much suffering they are emotionally and mentally are and what they are going through and having to face. They are in huge denial, and they do not have any security net especially having no proper Govt to even guide them or motivate them...

The only one person holding them together still, giving them hope is HH the Dalai Lama and even HHDL is slowly losing grip of it all because people get tired and start to disbelief after awhile...as in the case of TYC not agreeing in HHDL's autonomy vision http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lama-loses-control/  This is all karma returning back in full circle to them!

And soon which is a sad unfortunate truth, the Dalai Lama will no longer be around. A hard fact most will have to face and find hard to accept. The "smarter" richer ones have migrated, got themselves a citizenship of another country, living the life, being free... and nothing wrong with that... in fact I think those are the smart ones. If I had money and I had a givt like CTA... I would migrate as well. It's survival of the fetus with them now cos you can forget about challenging China. Only way is to become friends and stop killing themselves.

All I can say about these silly Tibetans is precisely in this quote...

Its true: what the CTA and the westerners who endorse Tibetans would not like you to realize is that Tibetans are far from being okay with their homeland being taken over by the Chinese, and perhaps it is just the Lamas who are not bitter over the takeover, but the people definitely are. So to hide over that fact they do all sorts of things and lay down all sorts of lies to cover for all those. It is sad to see that although the Tibetans pride themselves on being a Buddhist nation, their people fail utterly to apply its principles and cut loose the bitterness.

[Rinchen]

It is true that now those the criticize are the slower Tibetans, but we can't say much too. It is just their karma to be born there and be educated in this way.

Many of those who have migrated, I feel that they have made the right decision. As for those that have not migrated, they could either suffer and criticize/blaming everyone else, or they can just make use of this opportunity making the place that they are currently staying in a place they will call their home.

[Q]

Bravo! Excellent piece of writing I must say.

I have not received that much negative feedback from pro-DL followers except comments that goes along the line of "DS practitioners go die"... Never really gave too much notice of that one, wasn't worth it and if I initiated an argument with them it's like arguing with a goat that ate all the grass.

[dsiluvu]

Bravo! Excellent piece of writing I must say.

I have not received that much negative feedback from pro-DL followers except comments that goes along the line of "DS practitioners go die"... Never really gave too much notice of that one, wasn't worth it and if I initiated an argument with them it's like arguing with a goat that ate all the grass.

Hahaha ate all the grass??? Then again what grass do they have I! But yes it is very sad to see how their minds work and how narrow they think. However, we must admit it, they sure have very strong loyalty and faith in His Holiness, though wrong method, and wrong view, but you see their loyalty it is very firm and stable. So this part is quite positive about them.

However, I really wished they would stop condemning what others say with just silly remarks like "Dorje Shugden go die" because like it or not we're still alive and living it! They should really listen to other people's feedback, look if America can help you, they would have a long long time ago. Seems like they are just using Tibet to control their relations with China. Somehow, it's not gonna work this time. China bows to no one and this is their moment to shine. The dragon has awaken. So why fight fire with a Dragon, better to just become friends and spread Dharma with them

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Why be worried about being labeled negatively when you choose to propitiate a negative being? If you choose a path, accept the consequences as the saying goes.
 

[Rinchen]

Why be worried about being labeled negatively when you choose to propitiate a negative being? If you choose a path, accept the consequences as the saying goes.
 

It is not that DS practitioners are afraid to be labelled negatively. Is just that they do not see the reason to why they are being labelled negatively as in fact they do help the Tibetan economy in some ways.

And when the DS practitioners practice DS, it is not because they want and just follow blindly what others is doing. It is because it is what their guru have given to them, and their have guru devotion to follow what is given to them by their lamas.

Adding on to that, I do not believe that anyone would choose to believe something that is negative for them. Yes they may for the first few years, but after a decade or two, they will definitely know their guru or even DS's true colors if it really is negative.

Does it mean that they do not respect HH DL? Nope, they respect him as well, but they would choose their guru over anything else. And if DS is really bad, why would DL's root guru HH Trijang Rinpoche would still practice DS?

[brian]

Tibetans are largely shortsighted and live in their own world i believe. Why? I feel their views are often one sided and do not think thoroughly before jumping into a conclusion. Take CTA for example, a lot have been said but not many were done. And for them to abuse their position and harm Dorje Shugden practitioners who are their own people, is a big no no. They claim they are Buddhists but why would Buddhists harms another fellow Buddhist?

Why don't they just sit down and analyse the situation properly before embarking on any actions especially the ones that harm others. They can check on articles that gives logic to why Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but a Buddha himself. Please live like a modern man and start analysing logics instead of just follow blindly on a plot which brings bigger benefit to others.

[Blueupali]

Why be worried about being labeled negatively when you choose to propitiate a negative being? If you choose a path, accept the consequences as the saying goes.
 

  So, is Tenzin here trying to exemplify the idea that a lot of Tibetans are uneducated?  Okay, that is not their fault, but it is sad that they follow so blindly.

[Ensapa]

Why be worried about being labeled negatively when you choose to propitiate a negative being? If you choose a path, accept the consequences as the saying goes.
 

I dont think any Dorje Shugden practitioner is afraid to be labelled negatively, maybe perhaps a few, but maybe for the own reasons that are not Dharma related, but in general, no Dorje Shugden Lamas are afraid of being negatively labelled for their Dharma practices and that includes Trijang Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Kundeling Rinpoche and so on. If they did they would have made their practice a secret or would have given up their practice. Also, their actions show that they are detached from the 8 worldly concerns and are not obsessed with deflecting blame.

[Rinchen]

Tibetans are largely shortsighted and live in their own world i believe. Why? I feel their views are often one sided and do not think thoroughly before jumping into a conclusion. Take CTA for example, a lot have been said but not many were done. And for them to abuse their position and harm Dorje Shugden practitioners who are their own people, is a big no no. They claim they are Buddhists but why would Buddhists harms another fellow Buddhist?

Why don't they just sit down and analyse the situation properly before embarking on any actions especially the ones that harm others. They can check on articles that gives logic to why Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but a Buddha himself. Please live like a modern man and start analysing logics instead of just follow blindly on a plot which brings bigger benefit to others.

I agree with what you said brian. I believe that they are lazy and irresponsible as well. They do not think about the effects that would follow through from their actions and words. And they would push their responsibilities to someone else to handle it for them.

One example would be the CTA, they are pushing all their work that they need to do together with their responsibilities to others like the two resigned officials, the Westerners, Dalai Lama, Nechung, etc. When the problem arises, they would start pointing fingers, never to accept their own mistakes. 

[Ensapa]

Tibetans are largely shortsighted and live in their own world i believe. Why? I feel their views are often one sided and do not think thoroughly before jumping into a conclusion. Take CTA for example, a lot have been said but not many were done. And for them to abuse their position and harm Dorje Shugden practitioners who are their own people, is a big no no. They claim they are Buddhists but why would Buddhists harms another fellow Buddhist?

Why don't they just sit down and analyse the situation properly before embarking on any actions especially the ones that harm others. They can check on articles that gives logic to why Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but a Buddha himself. Please live like a modern man and start analysing logics instead of just follow blindly on a plot which brings bigger benefit to others.

I agree with what you said brian. I believe that they are lazy and irresponsible as well. They do not think about the effects that would follow through from their actions and words. And they would push their responsibilities to someone else to handle it for them.

One example would be the CTA, they are pushing all their work that they need to do together with their responsibilities to others like the two resigned officials, the Westerners, Dalai Lama, Nechung, etc. When the problem arises, they would start pointing fingers, never to accept their own mistakes.

And we all know what happens to people who do not accept their own mistakes: they go down and they become worse over time. The best thing for anyone to do is to just accept that they are wrong and then do something to rectify the mistakes. Not even acknowledging them means that you dont even know you're wrong, and thus, not do anything to rectify the mistakes. CTA thinks it can cover its own mistakes by whitewashing history etc, but these are only temporary measures.