Dalai Lama Retirement Accepted, So Now What?

[michaela]

 It is exactly like how the English Queen Elizabeth I who prosecuted the protestants and killed them in various ways when she was catholic and disagreed with their viewpoint of god. And this happened 300-400 years ago and not now.

Dear Ensapa

It was Queen Mary Tudor, Elizabeth I's Catholic sister and the daughter of Queen Catherine of Aragon (A Spanish Catholic princess married to King Henry VII of England), who prosecuted protestants mostly by burning.  Elizabeth I was the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn (his second wife and a protestant). Elizabeth I was famous for being able to maintain balance between Protestants and Catholic.  I think this was one of her greatest achievements.

   

[Big Uncle]

I am sorry, I don't agree with you. How can he not have credibility when he was invested with the power to run CTA by the Dalai Lama himself! The Dorje Shugden ban is implemented and kept in check by the CTA. There is really no one else. So, they have all the credibility.

Now, the Dalai Lama has been talking and praising the virtues of democracy and so forth. How does the Dorje Shugden ban fit into the framework of a democratic society? It doesn't, right? So, there you go... It cannot be clearer than that. The CTA has really got to do its job. Open their eyes, look at the social situation of the community as a whole and start implementing changes. Be brave for the marginalized, for once. Time to heal the Tibetan community that is already torn apart by this religious ban. Since, its effects are so pervasive, it must be abolished right away.

Don't these people want to see their real homeland again?

Dear Big Uncle

As I have explained in my previous post, we should separate between lifting the ban and enforcing the ban.

Lifting the ban - The ban is spiritual in nature.  It is implemented under the premise that DS is a spirit and this is the issue of spirit worship.  Although Dr. Lobsang Sangye has impressive academic achievements, He is not really a spiritual leader.  He is a secular leader.  Most Tibetans who enforce the ban has their spiritual faith in HHDL not Dr. Lobsang Sangye.  Will these people believe if Dr. Lobsang Sangye said, DS is not a spirit while HHDL does not change his stance?  I do not think so.  Many High Lamas have also tried to refute the claim that DS is a spirit, but it still does not affect those who have faith in HHDL.

Just like us, who have faith in our Guru that DS is not a spirit, These people also have faith in what HHDL said that DS is a spirit.  Thus, only HHDL can say with credibility that DS is not a spirit and I am doing this for other reasons.  HHDL is a very skilled diplomats and speaker, I think he can do this skillfully in a way that does not cause further chaos.

Enforcing the ban - Dr. Lobsang Sangye is responsible for the secular welfare of Tibetan people.  He can choose not to enforce the ban in the way it is being enforced now.  He can issue a regulation to forbid discriminations and blackmail against Shugdenpas.  The secular welfare of Tibetans in exile is now his responsibilities.

I hope this clarify my point.

I understand your point but you are not understanding my point. It doesn't matter that the ban is religious because it is infringing upon the basic rights of Dorje shugden practitioners. There's no other democratic country on this planet that would allow a religious ban to be implemented on a large scale like that. The Dalai Lama can impose his restrictions on his own followers behind closed doors but not on the Tibetan public arena. Many suffering Dorje Shugden practitioners are not even followers of the Dalai Lama but why do they have to be ostracized and segregated in society?

Therefore, the Central Tibetan Administration have to protect the rights of Dorje Shugden practitioners. They have to! They have to abolish the ban. The very least they can do is to make requests and state the social reasons for doings so to the Dalai Lama. I believe a sincere request that is backed up by facts will move the Dalai Lama's heart. If he is truly a Bodhisattva, he will be moved when we have others as our primary concern and he will perhaps be secretly proud of the CTA.

Therefore, I don't agree that it is all up to the Dalai Lama and the CTA doesn't do anything. I believe they should do much more and when the ban is lifted, they really have to make amends for all they have inflicted upon the Dorje Shugden practitioners.

[Ensapa]

I understand your point but you are not understanding my point. It doesn't matter that the ban is religious because it is infringing upon the basic rights of Dorje shugden practitioners. There's no other democratic country on this planet that would allow a religious ban to be implemented on a large scale like that. The Dalai Lama can impose his restrictions on his own followers behind closed doors but not on the Tibetan public arena. Many suffering Dorje Shugden practitioners are not even followers of the Dalai Lama but why do they have to be ostracized and segregated in society?

Therefore, the Central Tibetan Administration have to protect the rights of Dorje Shugden practitioners. They have to! They have to abolish the ban. The very least they can do is to make requests and state the social reasons for doings so to the Dalai Lama. I believe a sincere request that is backed up by facts will move the Dalai Lama's heart. If he is truly a Bodhisattva, he will be moved when we have others as our primary concern and he will perhaps be secretly proud of the CTA.

Therefore, I don't agree that it is all up to the Dalai Lama and the CTA doesn't do anything. I believe they should do much more and when the ban is lifted, they really have to make amends for all they have inflicted upon the Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Actually, the ban not only affects Dharamsala but also Dharma practitioners around the world. For example, the ban has affected many Buddhist centers who desperately want to be on the "good" side and support the Dalai Lama all the way by making nasty statements against Dorje Shugden Lamas that stop by their country and also saying nasty things about Buddhist centers that practice Dorje Shugden by branding them a cult in the full view of the public via press statements and rumors. Of course, this creates a lot and a lot of negativity as people often tend to believe the "authoritative" group of the region although the real intention is really to get rid or reduce competition with the DS Dharma centers. It is just another tactic to boost their membership at the expense of other Dharma centers. It creates a lot of disharmony and promotes it within a country as well as paranoia. in some countries, some people just REFUSE to step into Vajrayana or read their materials because they are too afraid of studying the "wrong" lineage and they end up being in the bad path. Yes, there are many Buddhists who are too afraid to investigate and want to "play it safe".

If any, the ban affected the face of Buddhism and affected its practitioners more than we think or can imagine. It is not just the people in Dharamsala that are affected, but also Buddhists in general as some of them either do not know any better or are too fearful to actually investigate and find out for sure what is going on for fear of being "tainted". So, the ban is not only unwarranted for the Tibetans in Dharamsala but it is also unwarranted for the rest of the world as there were many schisms and problems in Buddhist communities due to the ban. It can all be resolved if only the ban would be lifted. Ganden and Shar Ganden will rejoin, Serpom and Sera will rejoin, and Dharamsala will progress and be a better place for everyone to stay in. But as long as the ban is in place, CTA will create the cause to be discriminated against by not only China but the rest of the world.

The Dalai Lama started the ban, but CTA can choose to enforce it in such a way that the people do not to suffer just because they do not comply with the ban. Why must they mix religion and politics in this way? And more importantly, why are they ignoring HHDL's request for them to do investigations and practice kindness for others? why are they using the ban as an excuse to be cruel to others? There is a contradiction here in following HHDL's instructions. Lets hope it ends soon and everyone learns to take instructions properly...

[michaela]

Actually, the ban not only affects Dharamsala but also Dharma practitioners around the world. For example, the ban has affected many Buddhist centers who desperately want to be on the "good" side and support the Dalai Lama all the way by making nasty statements against Dorje Shugden Lamas that stop by their country and also saying nasty things about Buddhist centers that practice Dorje Shugden by branding them a cult in the full view of the public via press statements and rumors. Of course, this creates a lot and a lot of negativity as people often tend to believe the "authoritative" group of the region although the real intention is really to get rid or reduce competition with the DS Dharma centers. It is just another tactic to boost their membership at the expense of other Dharma centers. It creates a lot of disharmony and promotes it within a country as well as paranoia. in some countries, some people just REFUSE to step into Vajrayana or read their materials because they are too afraid of studying the "wrong" lineage and they end up being in the bad path. Yes, there are many Buddhists who are too afraid to investigate and want to "play it safe".

If any, the ban affected the face of Buddhism and affected its practitioners more than we think or can imagine. It is not just the people in Dharamsala that are affected, but also Buddhists in general as some of them either do not know any better or are too fearful to actually investigate and find out for sure what is going on for fear of being "tainted". So, the ban is not only unwarranted for the Tibetans in Dharamsala but it is also unwarranted for the rest of the world as there were many schisms and problems in Buddhist communities due to the ban. It can all be resolved if only the ban would be lifted. Ganden and Shar Ganden will rejoin, Serpom and Sera will rejoin, and Dharamsala will progress and be a better place for everyone to stay in. But as long as the ban is in place, CTA will create the cause to be discriminated against by not only China but the rest of the world.

The Dalai Lama started the ban, but CTA can choose to enforce it in such a way that the people do not to suffer just because they do not comply with the ban. Why must they mix religion and politics in this way? And more importantly, why are they ignoring HHDL's request for them to do investigations and practice kindness for others? why are they using the ban as an excuse to be cruel to others? There is a contradiction here in following HHDL's instructions. Lets hope it ends soon and everyone learns to take instructions properly...

You got my point Ensapa 

[michaela]

Dear Ensapa

It was Queen Mary Tudor, Elizabeth I's Catholic sister and the daughter of Queen Catherine of Aragon (A Spanish Catholic princess married to King Henry VII of England), who prosecuted protestants mostly by burning.  Elizabeth I was the daughter of Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn (his second wife and a protestant). Elizabeth I was famous for being able to maintain balance between Protestants and Catholic.  I think this was one of her greatest achievements.

I am sorry - I noticed another typo in my post.  Mary Tudor was a daughter of King Henry VIII (not Henry VII) of England and Queen Catherine of Aragon. 

[dsiluvu]

OMG! Nobody has any opinion about the points in this article?

Don't you guys think that it is very significant that there was a formal handover of power from the Dalai Lama as the head of state (so to speak) to the Kalon Tripa/Prime Minister? For me, I think that the issue of lifting the ban now rests with the Prime Minister because of the power invested in him by the Dalai Lama in running the affairs of the community. On top of that, the Dalai Lama envisions CTA to be run as a democracy.

Naturally, a democracy requires the leadership to be elected into office via electoral votes. And for the party to win the elections, they need to have a campaign to win the hearts of the people. The winning campaign usually would be about their plans to uplift the social standards and address social issues of the community. I think the Tibetans sorely needs the abolishment of archaic religious bans so every Tibetan would be fairly treated regardless of their beliefs. There should be major plans to educate the Tibetans of what that mean for every Tibetan.

On top of that, I think that succession of the Dalai Lama is rather important because the Chinese is expected to meddle in this. They are having huge hopes to install a puppet Lama like what they think they did with the Panchen Lama. So, I think the world is keeping their eyes peeled to see how the succession is going to take place. The Dalai Lama has hinted at a number of possible course of action like appointing the Karmapa to stave of claims of Chinese-appointed successors.

You know what would be funny? Let's say a Chinese appointed Lama takes over the position and the first thing he does is to declare that the Dorje Shugden ban is lifted and that the Tibetans in exile can now return to Tibet. And that there would be self-autonomy in Tibet under Chinese rule. That would be so cool! Whatever the outcome, it is still too early to tell and the Dalai Lama is purposely keeping his true plans all wrapped up in secrecy. We can only wait and watch. What do you guys think will happen?

The Dalai Lama started the ban, but CTA can choose to enforce it in such a way that the people do not to suffer just because they do not comply with the ban. Why must they mix religion and politics in this way? And more importantly, why are they ignoring HHDL's request for them to do investigations and practice kindness for others? why are they using the ban as an excuse to be cruel to others? There is a contradiction here in following HHDL's instructions. Lets hope it ends soon and everyone learns to take instructions properly...

Well the CTA as a democratic government needs to re-look at their policy of being a fair and democratic in the first place which is giving their people religious FREEEDOM and stop the disharmony by ensuring that those that follow HHDL's Ban do not harm the Shugden practitioners. They can surely stop the discrimination that is happening in schools, shops and definitely all the "witch hunting" wanted list of Lamas. All this has nothing to do with politics, it is strictly religious differences. And Dorje Shugden practitioners safety, welfare and education should be equal to that of a none-shugden practitioner as they are both Tibetans in blood after all. Are the Shugden practitioners not going to be allowed to VOTE when there is an election??? Yes and why are they ignoring HHDL's request for them to do investigations and practice kindness for others? This they should do... why not... came from HHDL's mouth. This will also create the unity they need in supporting their much needed dialogue with China because the more people they got on their side, the bigger the voice, support, resources and network they will be getting. So it would be a best thing for them to start thinking along these lines.

It would be such a wonderful rejoicing news if we hear the Dalai Lama say that the Ban is lifted... if HHDL does this it would be really interesting to see what those who beat and condemned the Shugden practitioner do. Hopefully it will not cause more chaos. Perhaps it could be said after a teaching on "Compassion".

Many Shugden practitioners have suffered tremendous discrimination either via verbal or physical abuse. Those practicing outside of Dharamsala in different parts of the world have definite experience the effects of this BAN because other "politically correct" wanna bes centers decides to be HHDL police. This is totally unethical because we are not even in Dharamsala and our govt not CTA. But this shows how much influence HHDL's speech is and how it affects millions. So yes the only 1 person who could reverse this is HHDL. Let's HOPE this day will come sooooon.

[michaela]

Well the CTA as a democratic government needs to re-look at their policy of being a fair and democratic in the first place which is giving their people religious FREEEDOM and stop the disharmony by ensuring that those that follow HHDL's Ban do not harm the Shugden practitioners. They can surely stop the discrimination that is happening in schools, shops and definitely all the "witch hunting" wanted list of Lamas. All this has nothing to do with politics, it is strictly religious differences. And Dorje Shugden practitioners safety, welfare and education should be equal to that of a none-shugden practitioner as they are both Tibetans in blood after all. Are the Shugden practitioners not going to be allowed to VOTE when there is an election??? Yes and why are they ignoring HHDL's request for them to do investigations and practice kindness for others? This they should do... why not... came from HHDL's mouth. This will also create the unity they need in supporting their much needed dialogue with China because the more people they got on their side, the bigger the voice, support, resources and network they will be getting. So it would be a best thing for them to start thinking along these lines.

It would be such a wonderful rejoicing news if we hear the Dalai Lama say that the Ban is lifted... if HHDL does this it would be really interesting to see what those who beat and condemned the Shugden practitioner do. Hopefully it will not cause more chaos. Perhaps it could be said after a teaching on "Compassion".

Many Shugden practitioners have suffered tremendous discrimination either via verbal or physical abuse. Those practicing outside of Dharamsala in different parts of the world have definite experience the effects of this BAN because other "politically correct" wanna bes centers decides to be HHDL police. This is totally unethical because we are not even in Dharamsala and our govt not CTA. But this shows how much influence HHDL's speech is and how it affects millions. So yes the only 1 person who could reverse this is HHDL. Let's HOPE this day will come sooooon.

So agree with you Dsiluvu 

[Ensapa]

Since Big uncle did ask why did nobody comment on this article, I'll take up the challenge :p

I was surfing the net and found this old piece of news article. I thought it poses some really neat questions with regards to the role of the Dalai Lama post-retirement. The article was written pre-elections as we know now that Dr Lobsang Sangye did win elections and was formally elected as the Prime Minister or Kalon Tripa that is fully invested with power over Central Tibetan Administration. Please do read through as there are a few points that I highlighted that I think is relevant to the Dorje Shugden ban...



Dalai Lama Retirement Accepted, So Now What? ( http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/03/28/dalai-lama-retirement-accepted-so-now-what-for-china-tibet/ )

The Dalai Lama’s proposal to retire from his political role — formally ending a 370-year-old tradition — has finally been accepted by the Tibetan parliament-in-exile after 10 days of emotional debate in the north Indian town of Dharamsala.

The exiled parliament passed four unanimous resolutions Friday agreeing to constitutional changes that would allow the Dalai Lama to give up his role as head of the government-in-exile, which he established after fleeing his homeland in 1959. Under the changes, to be formalized in May, his political powers will be formally transferred to a new Prime Minister, known as the Kalon Tripa, who will take power after the final results of an election held last Sunday are announced in April.
Hmm...its been so long now and all I can as is what changes? i dont see any changes at all to the CTA in any way. Everyone is still operating the way they were before the change and everyone is still clamoring to get into the Dalai Lama's favor. Even the Katri is doing so and not doing his duties of planning the government policies or changing what needs to be changed, such as the ones regarding Dorje Shugden practitioners.
The parliament-in-exile initially opposed his retirement, but the 1989 Nobel Peace laureate insisted it was necessary to establish a more democratic, and sustainable, system for leading the 150,000 Tibetans who live in exile and for pushing the non-violent campaign aimed at gaining greater autonomy for Tibet.

“If we have to remain in exile for several more decades, a time will inevitably come when I will no longer be able to provide leadership,” the Dalai Lama said in a message to the parliament. “Therefore, it is necessary that we establish a sound system of governance while I remain able and healthy.”
It's been 2 years and the CTA is still depending on the Dalai Lama, more than ever. They are still unable to make their decisions independently of the Dalai Lama. they are still not taking responsibility. They are still doing based on whether or not it will make the Dalai Lama happy as opposed to making the people happy. So what are they talking about

China has dismissed the Dalai Lama’s retirement as a “trick” designed to impress the international community. On Monday, the Chinese government marked “Serfs’ Emancipation Day” — the date when it dismissed the Dalai Lama as head of the Tibetan government in 1959.
Padma Choling, the Beijing-appointed head of the current Tibetan regional government, made a televised speech on Sunday in which he insisted the Dalai Lama’s efforts to revive the “reactionary rule of theocratic feudal serfdom” were doomed to fail.

In reality, both sides have reason to worry about the future of a region that Beijing says has been part of its territory since the 13th Century, but which the Dalai Lama says was de facto independent before Chinese Communist troops took control in 1951.

The Dalai Lama’s chief concern, according to people close to him, is that the Chinese government –- which sees him as a dangerous separatist and says it has the right to approve all lamas’ reincarnations — will try to appoint his successor after his death. He says he will continue to act as a spiritual leader, much as previous Dalai Lamas did before 1642, when the Fifth Dalai Lama was enthroned both spritual and political leader following Tibet’s unification under the Mongol prince Gushri Khan.
Personally, I feel this is what the Dalai Lama wanted all along. He did not want any fancy titles or a country to rule, but to prevent civil wars he had no choice but to step up.

So far the 10-day parliament meeting has offered no further clues as to whether the current Dalai Lama’s own successor will be selected in the traditional manner, with senior lamas identifying a young boy as his re-incarnation after his death.
Of course they dont. They're not the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama has previously suggested a range of options, including having a referendum among his followers to decide whether he should be reincarnated at all. He has also suggested appointing his own successor while he is still alive.
In the end it is still a title that any emanation of Chenrezig could take over, as evident with Lhazang Khan's 6th Dalai Lama which the current HHDL say is still a valid candidate as he is an emanation of Chenrezig, although not the direct reincarnation

One option could be off the table, however.

The favorite to be the next Prime Minister, a senior fellow at Harvard Law School called Lobsang Sangay, had suggested that the Karmapa Lama, the third highest in the Tibetan Buddhist hierarchy, act as a “regent” to lead after the Dalai Lama’s death until his reincarnation is old enough to take over.

The constitutional changes agreed upon Friday entail the abolition of the regency, which traditionally handled Tibet’s government in the period between the death of one Dalai Lama and the completion of his successor’s education.

Bejing, meanwhile, is concerned that the Dalai Lama’s retirement undermines both its ability to appoint a credible successor and its criticism of his government-in-exile as an undemocratic relic of Tibet’s old theocracy.
Which is true. The CTA has to have a huge revamp in order to catch up with the times.

Ironically, as Columbia University Tibetologist Robert Barnett has noted, those concerns mean the Chinese government is now pushing openly for the Dalai Lama to stick to the traditional succession model, even as it continues to denounce the system it says he represents.
Well, they did recognize both the Karmapa and the Panchen Lama as well so what's the issue?
The contradiction was on full display last week as a press conference with three local experts from the China Tibetology Research Center organized by the state-backed All-China Journalists’ Association.

Tsering Yangdzom, the only ethnic Tibetan among the experts, said the next Dalai Lama should be selected according to a religious tradition that she said dated back to the Sixth Dalai Lama, who reigned 1682-1706. The Sixth Dalai Lama is a significant reference in the succession debate as he was appointed by the Qing dynasty Emperor Kangxi, which the Chinese government maintains as a precedent.

The government-in-exile argues Emperor Kangxi only sent representatives to the Sixth Dalai Lama’s inauguration and was not involved in his selection.

Zhou Wei, another of the experts, rejected the Dalai Lama’s suggestions that he could appoint his own successor. “If he wants to win the hearts of the Tibetan people, he must respect traditions,” he said.
lol. as if the Dalai Lama cares about that. He cares more about the Dharma.

The third expert, Du Yongbin, said the Dalai Lama’s retirement plan showed that exile government’s prime minister had no real power until now and that therefore religious leader and his followers adhered to “the old theocratic way despite claimed efforts to transform their group into a secular and democratic one.”
Zing! ouch! so what is the CTA gonna do about that? Because it is true!!!

Mr. Du went on to insist on three cardinal rules for the next Dalai Lama’s selection: observe historical precedent, respect religious requirements, and comply with the Chinese government’s “managing measures for the reincarnation of living Buddhas.”
Oh yeah, i forgot, you might be a powerful government but you cant control Buddhas! hahahhaa
– Jeremy Page

And thats my take on the article. I find it fairly balanced in many ways, and it also shows the ignorance of the Chinese government of Tibetan matters.