Author Topic: Monks is modern western universities???  (Read 9020 times)

Q

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Monks is modern western universities???
« on: July 04, 2012, 06:24:32 AM »
Hi all,

Wanted to share with you some news I just read today.

26 monks and 2 nuns has just completed their 5 year study in Emory University. The effort was made through the Dalai Lama Institute to bring back modern science to the monasteries through integrating it with Buddhist practice and wisdom.

As everyone already know, HHDL strongly supports positive interactions between religion and science which has won HH the Templeton Prize early this year. So, it's not a very strange thing for HH to provide scholarships to promising monks and nuns to learn on social sciences and even neurosciences.

When I first read about this, I wondered, why? What is the purpose behind such a programme, does it even matter if monks and nuns in the monasteries know about modern science since a monk and nun's main purpose (and the only thing they'd wish to do anyway...) is to practice Dharma and give the Dharma. Then I think about Chogyam Trungpa and it starts to make sense.

Buddhism is going to the west. I know we've heard this many times already, but now preparations are being made to ensure the monks and nuns in the monasteries are well versed with western perspectives and mentality so that they can teach the Dharma effectively in the western world. Come to think of it... look at the all the asian countries... India is practically not Buddhist, Korea has turned Christian, Japan's Buddhism has become more of a tradition than religious practice, China... I don't even know what Buddhism they practice there. If there was even one Asian country that is Buddhist it would be Thailand (or at least half of it), but they're of Theravada tradition.. and perhaps Taiwan. As an Asian myself, I find it scary... scary because there is a potential that there will be no Dharma in my homeland. What do you think?

Okay... placing aside on my worries of the dwindling of Dharma in Asia for one second... I'd like to share with you a video that was taken 2 years ago about the monks in Emory University. Very short and nice video to see how the monks study in university.

Footsteps


One of the scholars said "Our study here is not for oneself, but we are studying here so that we can take more information back to monastery and start to materialize the vision that HH has to introduce science into monastery curriculum..." I think what he said is so beautiful... such a strong sense of selflessness and Guru devotion can be felt.

Below is the news article I read earlier about the completion of their studies.

Enjoy.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSTART OF NEWS REPORTxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tibetan monks tackle science in the Indian hills
Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Tibetan-monks-tackle-science-in-the-Indian-hills/articleshow/14652141.cms

SARAH: The shouts of more than a dozen Tibetan monks echo through the small classroom. Fingers are pointed. Voices collide. When an important point is made, the men smack their hands together and stomp the floor, their robes billowing around them.

It's the way Tibetan Buddhist scholars have traded ideas for centuries. Among them, the debate-as-shouting match is a discipline and a joy.

But this is something different.

Evolutionary theory is mentioned loudly. One monk invokes Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Another shouts about the subatomic nature of neutrinos.

In an educational complex perched on the edge of a small river valley, in a place where the Himalayan foothills descend into the Indian plains, a group of about 65 Tibetan monks and nuns are working with American scientists to tie their ancient culture to the modern world.

"I'd like to go back to my monastery ... to pass on my knowledge to other monks so that they might bring the (scientific) process to others,'' said Tenzin Choegyal, a 29-year-old monk born in exile in India.

If that seems a modest goal, it reflects an immense change in Tibetan culture, where change has traditionally come at a glacial pace.

Isolated for centuries atop the high Himalayan plateau, and refusing entry to nearly all outsiders, Tibet long saw little of value in modernity.

Education was almost completely limited to monastic schools. Magic and mysticism were, and are, important parts of life to many people. New technologies were something to be feared: Eyeglasses were largely forbidden until well into the twentieth centuries.

No longer. Pushed by the Dalai Lama, a fierce proponent of modern schooling, a series of programs were created in exile to teach scientific education to monks, the traditional core of Tibetan culture.

At the forefront is an intensive summer program, stretched over five years, that brings professors from Emory University in Atlanta. For six days a week, six hours a day, the professors teach everything from basic math to advanced neuroscience.

"The Buddhist religion has a deep concept of the mind that goes back thousands of years,'' said Larry Young, an Emory psychiatry professor and prominent neuroscientist. "Now they're learning something different about the mind: the mind-body interface, how the brain controls the body.''

But why are Tibetans now embracing modernity?

Many of the roots can be traced to 1959, when Chinese soldiers invaded Tibet amid an aborted uprising. The Dalai Lama and thousands of his followers fled across the Himalayas and into India, creating an exile community that now numbers an estimated 150,000 people around the world.

Beijing says Tibet is an integral part of China. And while the Dalai Lama insists he only wants autonomy for his homeland, Beijing disparages him as a quasi-terrorist intent on wresting control away from China.

The Tibetan culture, meanwhile, is increasingly imperiled. Ethnic Han Chinese, encouraged by generous government subsidies, now outnumber Tibetans in much of Tibet. The traditional Tibetan herding culture is dying out as people move to cities. Many young Tibetans now speak a tangle of Chinese and Tibetan.

The shifting cultural landscape has torn at Tibet, sparking violent uprisings every decade or so. In the most recent wave, some three dozen people have burned themselves alive over the past year in ethnic Tibetan areas of China, protesting Beijing's policies.

Amid such tumult, the Dalai Lama _ a man raised to live in regal isolation as a near-deity _ has instead spent much of his life seeking ways that Tibetans can hold onto their traditions even as they find their way in the modern world.

He has encouraged modern schooling for exile children, and a democratic system to choose the Tibetan political leader (he renounced his political powers in 2011). There are job programs for the armies of unemployed young people.

And, for a few dozen monks and nuns, there is science.

The first group from the Emory program _ 26 monks and two nuns _ have just finished their five years of summer classes. While they earned no degrees, they are expected to help introduce a science curriculum into the monastic academies, and will take with them Tibetan-language science textbooks the program has developed.

The Dalai Lama realizes that "preservation of the culture will occur through change,'' said Carol Worthman, a professor of anthropology in Emory's Laboratory for Comparative Human Biology. "You have to change to stay in place.''

But change is a complicated thing. Particularly with a culture like this one.

The monks and nuns in the Emory program are "the best and the brightest,'' Worthman said, brought to the Sarah complex from monasteries and convents across India and Nepal. While most are in their 20s or 30s, some are far older and long ago earned high-level degrees in Buddhist philosophy.

Still, few learned anything but basic math before the Emory program. Because of the way they study _ focusing on debates and the memorization of long written passages, but doing comparatively little writing _ few are able to take notes during classroom lectures. Many were raised to see magic as an integral part of the world around them.

To watch them in class, though, is astonishing.

No one yawns. No one dozes. Since almost no one takes notes, it's easy to think they're not paying attention.

But then a monk or a nun in a red robe calls out a question about brain chemistry, or cell biology, or logic, that can leave their teachers stunned.

Though most studied only religious subjects after eighth grade, they regularly traverse highly complex concepts: "They really understand how neurocircuits work at a level that's comparable to what we see at a senior (undergraduate) neuroscience classroom in the United States,'' said Young, the neuroscientist.

For most of the monastics, though, the challenges are not in the academic rigor. They see nothing astonishing about their ability to process vast amounts of information without taking notes, or to remain attentive for hours on end. It is how they have been trained.

For them, the challenges lie in weaving modern science with traditional beliefs.

The science program "was sort of like a culture shock for me,'' said Choegyal, who is based at a monastery in southern India. While Tibetan Buddhism puts a high value on skepticism, conclusions are reached through philosophical analysis _ not through clinical research and reams of scientific data.

So it was difficult, at first, for many of the students. And the questions ranged across science and philosophy: Are bacteria sentient beings? How does science know that brain chemistry affects emotions? Are Tibetan beliefs in mysticism provable through science?

At times, the program can seem incongruous, given the widespread belief in magic. Such beliefs go all the way to the top: The Dalai Lama still consults the official state oracle, a monk who divines the future from a temple complex not far from here.

But after five years, Choegyal says he has managed to hold onto his core beliefs while delving deeply into science.

"Buddhism basically talks about truth, or reality, and science really supports that,'' he said. Questions that science cannot address, like the belief in reincarnation, he brushes aside as "subtle issues.''

Instead, he mostly finds echoes across the two cultures.

He points to karma, the ancient Buddhist belief in a cycle of cause and effect, and how it plays into reincarnation. Then he points to the similarities with evolutionary theory.

"Everything evolves, or it changes,'' he said, whether in evolution or in reincarnation. "So it's pretty similar, except some sort of reasoning.''

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Dhiman

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »
Here's another interesting article to share. The author of the article quotes Arri Eisen, one of the professors who travelled to India to teach science to Buddhist monks.

Buddhism and Science: http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/science.htm

Besides introducing a more comprehensive education in the monastic curriculum, it would make sense to me that the Dalai Lama is planning to commercialize Buddhism by backing up theories with scientific explanations. Buddhism will be more appealing to the mass modern crowd if it is validated with science and this applies especially with secret tantric meditations, which is only passed down verbally in discreet. It would be up to these scholar monks to explain the sacred practices and its benefits in understandable lay terms. The Dalai Lama is again two steps ahead.

Dolce Vita

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2012, 01:19:25 PM »
People in degenerated time do not believe what they cannot see. Anything that cannot be proven by science is rejected immediately. In order to bring Dharma to people, it becomes necessary for the monks or nun to come to our mentality level to bring Dharma to us. Not only they have to attend the universities, some of them even become a pop song singer, for example Singa Rinpoche. Click on the link below, it is one of his music video.

????? - ????? Small | Large




Big Uncle

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 04:57:55 PM »
To watch them in class, though, is astonishing.

No one yawns. No one dozes. Since almost no one takes notes, it's easy to think they're not paying attention.

But then a monk or a nun in a red robe calls out a question about brain chemistry, or cell biology, or logic, that can leave their teachers stunned.

Though most studied only religious subjects after eighth grade, they regularly traverse highly complex concepts: "They really understand how neurocircuits work at a level that's comparable to what we see at a senior (undergraduate) neuroscience classroom in the United States,'' said Young, the neuroscientist.

For most of the monastics, though, the challenges are not in the academic rigor. They see nothing astonishing about their ability to process vast amounts of information without taking notes, or to remain attentive for hours on end. It is how they have been trained.

Cool, isn't it? I like this part of the article because it shows that the monks had absolutely no problem grasping the most complex teachings. It is amazing because the rigorous monastic training had trained them to have a maleable mind so the learning process comes much easier.

I am wondering what makes these monks learn so well. I am thinking that perhaps it is their humility and openness to learn or it could be the meditations that they do on a daily basis triggers memory and critical thinking so such complex subject matter becomes easier to pick up. On the other hand, it could be that the monastic curriculum is far more complicated than any science subject. I don't really have an answer and I think it could be a combination of all three reasons. What do you guys think?

dsiluvu

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 04:35:38 AM »
To watch them in class, though, is astonishing.

No one yawns. No one dozes. Since almost no one takes notes, it's easy to think they're not paying attention.

But then a monk or a nun in a red robe calls out a question about brain chemistry, or cell biology, or logic, that can leave their teachers stunned.

Though most studied only religious subjects after eighth grade, they regularly traverse highly complex concepts: "They really understand how neurocircuits work at a level that's comparable to what we see at a senior (undergraduate) neuroscience classroom in the United States,'' said Young, the neuroscientist.

For most of the monastics, though, the challenges are not in the academic rigor. They see nothing astonishing about their ability to process vast amounts of information without taking notes, or to remain attentive for hours on end. It is how they have been trained.

I am wondering what makes these monks learn so well. I am thinking that perhaps it is their humility and openness to learn or it could be the meditations that they do on a daily basis triggers memory and critical thinking so such complex subject matter becomes easier to pick up. On the other hand, it could be that the monastic curriculum is far more complicated than any science subject. I don't really have an answer and I think it could be a combination of all three reasons. What do you guys think?

I do actually think that the monastic curriculum is probably more complex then Science. I am not amazed or surprised at all that they could memorize, ask questions, without taking any notes so easily... because this is how the monks are trained since young to memorize hundreds of text. I think now it is very easy for them to connect the dots if of Buddhism and Science. Both are Science actually... one is of the mind, the other a more physical form I suppose.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama is definitely very very smart in encouraging this because it creates an opportunity for Buddhism to infiltrate in to Modern Science... which is to me nothing new from what the Buddha has taught... and I think this is probably what HHDL is doing... making those connections and through this, it makes Buddhism more accessible to professionals, atheist, and in general the public. Buddha has even told us there are other universe and other forms of beings on this planet... so I wonder where to next... perhaps HHDL will send monks with study in NASA and go outer space?

But all this for what purpose??? I think there can only be one... spreading the Dharma :)

But funny how they mentioned Nechung and the beliefs in magic....
How come His Holiness allows the practice of Nechung (unEnlightened Protector) but not Dorje Shugden? Sorry side tracked here a bit what's the difference? And how will this Science study assignment from the monks connect with the bigger picture???


Quote
At times, the program can seem incongruous, given the widespread belief in magic. Such beliefs go all the way to the top: The Dalai Lama still consults the official state oracle, a monk who divines the future from a temple complex not far from here.

But after five years, Choegyal says he has managed to hold onto his core beliefs while delving deeply into science.

"Buddhism basically talks about truth, or reality, and science really supports that,'' he said. Questions that science cannot address, like the belief in reincarnation, he brushes aside as "subtle issues.''

Instead, he mostly finds echoes across the two cultures.

He points to karma, the ancient Buddhist belief in a cycle of cause and effect, and how it plays into reincarnation. Then he points to the similarities with evolutionary theory.

"Everything evolves, or it changes,'' he said, whether in evolution or in reincarnation. "So it's pretty similar, except some sort of reasoning.''

kris

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2012, 10:20:09 PM »
I would like to think of this from another angle...

Many of the science research are funded by Christian since many years ago, and many of the technology we enjoy now is a result of that. I was just wondering why Buddhism has never spend that kind of money or energy into science research.. Is it because of the technological enhancements, we will get derailed from our spiritual practices?

At this point in time, I felt science and spiritualism should converge and compliment each other. As such, I felt that not only the monks or nuns or whoever related to the monastery, not only they should learn science, I would say we should spend even more time to contribute to research too.

hope rainbow

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 01:57:17 AM »
Have we forgotten that the great Nalanda university was a beacon of study and knowledge, both spiritual and scientific!

Students coming from as far as Persia and Greece did the journey to Nalanda which in those days may easily take months.

from Wikipedia:
"...virtually the entire range of world knowledge then available. Courses were drawn from every field of learning, Buddhist and Hindu, sacred and secular, foreign and native. Students studied science, astronomy, medicine, and logic as diligently as they applied themselves to metaphysics, philosophy, Samkhya, Yoga-shastra, the Veda, and the scriptures of Buddhism. They studied foreign philosophy likewise."

If they had it available then, of course that they would also have offered studies in neuro-science, in psycho-analysis, in nano-technology, etc...

So I do not see why some may get surprised that monks are sent to universities to learn about anything that has been discovered in our phenomenological world. They may have another dimension to add to this knowledge.

ilikeshugden

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 03:42:19 AM »
i think that it is very good for monks to be in modern wester universities as they would be more catered to the much more technologically advanced westerners who are usually more devoted than easterners and also adept in using social medias. The Dharma will spread better in Western countries. At least, that is what I believe. I rejoice at the fact that the monks are participating in these universities.

bambi

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 07:16:03 AM »
Its incredible to see the progress in Buddhism and the Sanghas are not only responsible for Dharma but also to pass the knowledge to other back in the monastery. I believe that it will be great to have this extra curriculum especially the younger ones. Just like what Stephen Hawkings concluded, God did not build this Universe and how he proved it with science as it is based on facts and not hearsay. I hope that more of the Sanghas can expand their knowledge through the scholarship in the universities.

dondrup

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 08:16:05 AM »
HH Dalai lama is very skillful to provide scholarships and to encourage Tibetan monks and nuns to study modern sciences in the Western universities.  The Western world will be more willing to accept Buddhism when they see that even monks and nuns are studying science in their universities. This creates greater integration between Buddhism and science.  It will lead to greater acceptance of Buddhism.  In the future, scientists will embrace Buddhism because what science knows, Lord Buddha had spoken about 2500 years ago and Buddhism offers more than what scientists can understand now. 

Tibetan monks and nuns who had studied in the above programme will be better equipped to deal with the Western way of thinking especially how the scientists think.  This is beneficial for the monks and nuns if in the future, they were to teach Dharma in the West.

Tenzin K

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 08:59:17 AM »
Totally agree with Dhiman, at this time/era, people always look for answers that make sense to them. In fact if we really study the scientific view a lot of time it’s very similar to Buddhism. With this more people able to convince and it’s another breakthrough for the people to learn and understand Buddhism as part of the nature law.

Having the first batch of monk and nuns graduated from the university and bring back the knowledge to monastery is important and this is the beginning of scientific knowledge being taught and examine with Buddhism principal.   

For HH Dalai Lama to have supported the program is really a great idea and action. Buddhism follows the change of time and the teaching is always there just the method changes according to the need of time, people and situation. This program definitely for a greater purposes in spreading dharma as scientific and logical is what current time of people are looking and seeking for.

Klein

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 04:12:53 PM »
I found this video clip on HHDL being interviewed at Emory University regarding Science curriculum for Buddhist monks. A representative of Emory University asked HHDL the following 2 questions:

1. Do you have any concerns that Science education could have a negative impact on the tradition of monastic education?
2. What impact would such a program have on humanity?

Watch the video and you'll see how skillful HHDL is. HH wants Universities to have Buddhist Science as part of their curriculum. HH said that Buddhist Science is not about Buddhism but about the science of the human mind. HH noticed that even a learned person like the Chancellor of a University was very unhappy. So HH feels that there is an urgent need for Buddhist Science to be taught in all Universities as it addresses human emotions.

HHDL is so skillful in relieving people's suffering using Buddhist methods. Many a time, "labels" can be an obstacle for some wanting to help and others, receiving help.
 
Science Curriculum for Tibetan Monks 4: Q&A with the Dalai Lama Small | Large


buddhalovely

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Re: Monks is modern western universities???
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 04:01:54 AM »
 The interpretation of religion, as here advanced, implies a dependence of science on the religious attitude, a relation which, in our predominantly materialistic age, is only too easily overlooked. While it is true that scientific results are entirely independent from religious or moral considerations, those individuals to whom we owe the great creative achievements of science were all of them imbued with the truly religious conviction that this universe of ours is something perfect and susceptible to the rational striving for knowledge. If this conviction had not been a strongly emotional one and if those searching for knowledge had not been inspired by Spinoza's Amor Dei Intellectualis, they wouid hardly have been capable of that untiring devotion which alone enables man to attain his greatest achievements.