HHDL's Compassion towards Shugdenpas

[michaela]

I wonder whether HHDL’s decision in banning DS practitioners from his teachings and empowerments is actually based on compassion?  He knows that we will not abide by his advice or believe him that DS is a spirit and is harming his life.  Thus, we will end up breaking our samaya with him.

But, what about other Shugdenpas that have taken refuge vows and tantric initiations from him?  Will they be breaking their Samaya if they keep propitiating DS?  Is it by this motivations the abbots and administrators in some monasteries are expelling their colleagues for propitiating DS?

[Big Uncle]

I wonder whether HHDL’s decision in banning DS practitioners from his teachings and empowerments is actually based on compassion?  He knows that we will not abide by his advice or believe him that DS is a spirit and is harming his life.  Thus, we will end up breaking our samaya with him.

But, what about other Shugdenpas that have taken refuge vows and tantric initiations from him?  Will they be breaking their Samaya if they keep propitiating DS?  Is it by this motivations the abbots and administrators in some monasteries are expelling their colleagues for propitiating DS?

That's what the Dalai Lama camp would like you to believe. How can practicing Dorje Shugden means that you are breaking one's samaya? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can one Guru's instruction to abandon Dorje Shugden override another Guru's instruction to practice? Incorrect. Hence, I think followers of the Dalai Lama who are still practicing Dorje Shugden can go on practicing secretly and it is unnecessary to reveal at this time.

In fact, the Dalai Lama has no right to tell people not to practice but he has every right to bar practitioners from coming to his teachings and initiations. However, this will not look good on him because people of various faiths are allowed in and every time they perform Lama Chopa, they would invite spirits to come and partake of the offerings. If spirits are allowed in, why not Dorje Shugden practitioners?

[DharmaSpace]

I would think many of the older monks in Shar Gaden and Serpom have taking initiations and vows from His Holiness the Dalai Lama and if they have broken their vows why would those very monasteries be flourishing and growing now. The time that I went there, for a Rinpoche's enthronement there were many international people attending it supporting through all manners of help, and the names of Shar Gaden and Serpom is getting more reknown as time goes by.

Good results or dharma results can it come about through broken samaya? I feel in this instance the Dalai Lama is using subterfuge to promote Dorje Shugden. So I feel these are special circumstances and the people who carry on practicing Dorje Shugden have not broken their samaya.

Does it mean if one is expelled then one does not have samaya anymore with their teachers in the monastery they have been expelled from?

[michaela]

In fact, the Dalai Lama has no right to tell people not to practice but he has every right to bar practitioners from coming to his teachings and initiations. However, this will not look good on him because people of various faiths are allowed in and every time they perform Lama Chopa, they would invite spirits to come and partake of the offerings. If spirits are allowed in, why not Dorje Shugden practitioners?

Dear Big Uncle that is exactly the same question that I raised in my other post:

During the course of the empowerment he gave the lay persons’ upasaka vows, as well the ceremonies for generating the aspiring and engaging awakening minds of bodhichitta. In addition, he took care to explain how values and practices found in Buddhism are also to be found in other religious traditions. An Italian Imam, and several Catholic monks and nuns had come to attend the empowerment and he suggested ways in which what he was teaching could be relevant within the context of a different faith.

I found it amazing that HHDL allows Catholic monks and nuns to attend the empowerment and he explain that what he was teaching could be relevant to the context of different faith.  This is contradictory to his previous statements that Shugden practitioners are not allowed to attend any of his empowerments and initiations.

Sometimes, High Lama really act in a way that is very difficult to understand.

If anyone from CTA or non Shugdenpas are in this forum, can you respond to our question above?  At least you should speak up, unless you're too afraid to reason with us hehe...

[harrynephew]

I wonder whether HHDL’s decision in banning DS practitioners from his teachings and empowerments is actually based on compassion?  He knows that we will not abide by his advice or believe him that DS is a spirit and is harming his life.  Thus, we will end up breaking our samaya with him.

But, what about other Shugdenpas that have taken refuge vows and tantric initiations from him?  Will they be breaking their Samaya if they keep propitiating DS?  Is it by this motivations the abbots and administrators in some monasteries are expelling their colleagues for propitiating DS?

That's what the Dalai Lama camp would like you to believe. How can practicing Dorje Shugden means that you are breaking one's samaya? It just doesn't make sense to me. How can one Guru's instruction to abandon Dorje Shugden override another Guru's instruction to practice? Incorrect. Hence, I think followers of the Dalai Lama who are still practicing Dorje Shugden can go on practicing secretly and it is unnecessary to reveal at this time.

In fact, the Dalai Lama has no right to tell people not to practice but he has every right to bar practitioners from coming to his teachings and initiations. However, this will not look good on him because people of various faiths are allowed in and every time they perform Lama Chopa, they would invite spirits to come and partake of the offerings. If spirits are allowed in, why not Dorje Shugden practitioners?

In Buddhism the basis of excorcism is on compassion. Actually, in whatever actions, thoughts or speech, it should be motivated by the power of compassion. What my Lama taught me regarding the process of excorcism in Buddhism is that when a malign spirit/being cannot be pacified using peaceful means such as making offerings to them, controlling them by means of mantra and the necessary meditative rituals, the last resort is to use subjugation powers of the Enlightened Beings.

What happens here is that this malign spirit is summoned by power of mantra and then brought to the presence of the ritual master who is one with the meditational deity. At this point, the lineage lamas, yidams and protective deities of the Doctrine are invited to bear witness of the ritual as well. What happens next is that the ritual master takes form of the wrathful aspect of the Yidam which then crushes the mental consciousness of the malign spirit.

Due to the powers and aspirational prayer of the deity, this spirit is then transferred by means of power of meditation to the Pure Realm of the Buddhas and is to remain there to purify until their negative karmas are exhausted/ sent into the wheel of existence to continue the next rebirth as what karma deems it fit.

Having understand thus, we see even in the story of Dorje Shugden, his 'consciousness' is that of Yamantaka. I mean, who can destroy Yamantaka, he's already a Buddha dubbed the Vajra Terrifier!!! If we practice compassion, we should actually view such undertakings as being false and we all do not have authority not to give charity in whatever means or form to spirits. Some enlightened Beings take on the form of spirits to help sentient beings in the spirit realm. Who are we to judge.

I say we take on the stance of an objective person as my Lama tells me. It is not going against my Lama's wish if I do not practice Dorje Shugden but it is only logical to follow his instructions to both respect the Dalai Lama and also Dorje Shugden for they both are Buddhas in their own right.

[DSFriend]

We have read the many things HHDL says to Dorje Shugden practitioners such as how it will cut short his life, to not go to his teachings, that everyone else who practice are wrong, except HH. Trijang Rinpoche etc., 

I have not come across HHDL saying specifically to his students who are Dorje Shugden practitioners that there will be no more blessings for them when they engage in other practices whom they have received from HHDL because of broken samaya. We know the consequences of broken samaya yet, incarnate tulkus are returning perfect.
So are people breaking their samaya with HHDL?

[Manjushri]

I personally do not think that it is because of the motivation of stopping monks from breaking their samaya that abbots and administrators are expelling monks who propitiate DS. I think it is more about face, and ‘doing the right thing’. Like forcing the monks to swear in against the practise of DS, it is purely to look good, because how can you make someone not practise a practise they have received? If they don’t practise it, they would be breaking their commitments as well.

Why would His Holiness set something up to make you break samaya, and FROM a practise that he has received and given before? The dilemma so many face is that if you have one guru who gave you this practise and asks you to practise it like Trijang Rinpoche and HHDL is also your guru who bans the practise, how do you choose? Considering this, how is it compassionate?

[Barzin]

How could one guru's instruction overwrite another?  Who do we choose?  This probably is the biggest dilemma that most monks are facing, one is their very own guru who passed the practice to them and the other one is the supreme His Holiness The Dalai Lama.  But who are we to question His Holiness or even our guru who passed the practice to us?  If His Holiness's decision is not based on compassion then why is he setting us up to fail?  Knowing that by keeping the practice will break our samaya?   What if the very fundamental of keeping the practice is based on pure guru devotion?  Does it consider breaking samaya too?  If it's breaking samaya, i don't think the practice will grow so rapidly considering we don't have the blessing of the lama anymore.



 

[Tenzin Gyatso]

I wonder whether HHDL’s decision in banning DS practitioners from his teachings and empowerments is actually based on compassion?  He knows that we will not abide by his advice or believe him that DS is a spirit and is harming his life.  Thus, we will end up breaking our samaya with him.

But, what about other Shugdenpas that have taken refuge vows and tantric initiations from him?  Will they be breaking their Samaya if they keep propitiating DS?  Is it by this motivations the abbots and administrators in some monasteries are expelling their colleagues for propitiating DS?

His Holiness the 14th Perfect incarnated Dalai Lama, the spiritual and temporal leader of Tibet definitely asked everyone to stop worshipping harmful beings from pure motivation.

His Holiness gets absolutely nothing for this advice. In his infinite wisdom, skill and love he has advised us to go back to practicing real Buddhism. We receive all the benefits.


His compassion is equal for shugdenpas and non-shugden followers.

[kris]

The act of HH Dalai Lama banning the practice of Dorje Shugden has created a lot of confusions and has indeed thrown a lot of lineage practices or "rules" out of the window.

Just as an example, we treat our Guru as Buddha (after checking hime out). How can HH Dalai Lama said Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about the practice? If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong, then how about other teachings that are taught by Trijang Rinpoche to HH Dalai Lama?

That's why I said, it created a lot of confusions, in many aspects.

On the other hand, I believe that HH Dalai Lama is Chenrenzig, and He has reasons to do this. I can only think that the BIG reason is to spread the Buddhism teachings through some unconventional way. May be it is still out of compassionate, but I would think that ppl in CTA should not add to the fuel as Shugdenpas are already suffering..

[Ensapa]

I have thought about this before, long and hard. Why does the Dalai Lama treat Dorje Shugden practitioners with such wrath and have brought upon so much difficulty for the practitioners when they have done nothing wrong but hold on to the Dharma practice that has been given to them by their Gurus? And for adhering to their Gurus, they get ostracized, ridiculed, being kicked out of monasteries and things are being made difficult for them. Mind you, this does not just affect the Tibetans already, but it also affects many Dharma practitioners around the world who think that Buddhism is all about adhering to the Dalai Lama's advice even if it means that they dont know the real story or what is going on.

I am thinking, maybe, perhaps, HHDL is doing all this to make the practitioners stronger so that they can spread Dorje Shugden far and wide. The mental strength that can be accrued by going through the ban will definitely help to accelerate spiritual practice. If the Dorje Shugden practitioners can do their Dharma practice under such harsh conditions, where everyone else is against them but yet they still hold on steadfast to their Guru's instructions, even if it means that they have to suffer a lot of accusations and discriminations, it will greatly strengthen their resolve for the Dharma and it will cause these practitioners to attain results faster than those who dont. Proof? Look at how many illustrious Dorje Shugden lamas there are, including those who have "given up" publicly, compared to those Gelug lamas who were against Dorje Shugden from the start....

Another reason I can think of is that the Dalai Lama has noticed that there are too many insincere practitioners around and he would want to filter them off. From the ban, it is very easy to see that the sincere ones are the ones who adhere to their Gurus, while the insincere ones who just want to look good and have an easy life adhere to the Dalai Lama's command and even going to the point of denouncing their own teachers and Dharma brothers and sisters just to be in the correct side of the political intrigue because the latter are the ones that are not famous. FPMT's growth has stagnated ever since the ban. It was spreading and growing like wild mushrooms during Lama Yeshe's time (where Dorje Shugden was one of the core practices) but as soon as the students took over and decided to be rid of Dorje Shugden, growth of the centers stopped completely. The same can be observed in Ganden, Sera and Drepung, while Shar Ganden and Serpom is growing exponentially.

these are the conclusion of my thoughts about why the Dalai Lama implemented the ban.

[michaela]

His Holiness the 14th Perfect incarnated Dalai Lama, the spiritual and temporal leader of Tibet definitely asked everyone to stop worshipping harmful beings from pure motivation.

His Holiness gets absolutely nothing for this advice. In his infinite wisdom, skill and love he has advised us to go back to practicing real Buddhism. We receive all the benefits.


His compassion is equal for shugdenpas and non-shugden followers.

Dear Tenzin Gyatso

You brought up an interesting point here.  But, what is the reason that HHDL implemented the ban?  We have often interact in this forum and I have stated my reasons why DS is not a spirit.  If so, why the ban should be there in the first place?

[michaela]

I have thought about this before, long and hard. Why does the Dalai Lama treat Dorje Shugden practitioners with such wrath and have brought upon so much difficulty for the practitioners when they have done nothing wrong but hold on to the Dharma practice that has been given to them by their Gurus? And for adhering to their Gurus, they get ostracized, ridiculed, being kicked out of monasteries and things are being made difficult for them. Mind you, this does not just affect the Tibetans already, but it also affects many Dharma practitioners around the world who think that Buddhism is all about adhering to the Dalai Lama's advice even if it means that they dont know the real story or what is going on.

I am thinking, maybe, perhaps, HHDL is doing all this to make the practitioners stronger so that they can spread Dorje Shugden far and wide. The mental strength that can be accrued by going through the ban will definitely help to accelerate spiritual practice. If the Dorje Shugden practitioners can do their Dharma practice under such harsh conditions, where everyone else is against them but yet they still hold on steadfast to their Guru's instructions, even if it means that they have to suffer a lot of accusations and discriminations, it will greatly strengthen their resolve for the Dharma and it will cause these practitioners to attain results faster than those who dont. Proof? Look at how many illustrious Dorje Shugden lamas there are, including those who have "given up" publicly, compared to those Gelug lamas who were against Dorje Shugden from the start....

Another reason I can think of is that the Dalai Lama has noticed that there are too many insincere practitioners around and he would want to filter them off. From the ban, it is very easy to see that the sincere ones are the ones who adhere to their Gurus, while the insincere ones who just want to look good and have an easy life adhere to the Dalai Lama's command and even going to the point of denouncing their own teachers and Dharma brothers and sisters just to be in the correct side of the political intrigue because the latter are the ones that are not famous. FPMT's growth has stagnated ever since the ban. It was spreading and growing like wild mushrooms during Lama Yeshe's time (where Dorje Shugden was one of the core practices) but as soon as the students took over and decided to be rid of Dorje Shugden, growth of the centers stopped completely. The same can be observed in Ganden, Sera and Drepung, while Shar Ganden and Serpom is growing exponentially.

these are the conclusion of my thoughts about why the Dalai Lama implemented the ban.

Dear Ensapa

Although what you have some truth in it.  Such as some practitioners do their DS practice more fiercely than before the ban is implemented.  Because of the ban, many people investigated the issue of DS and understand the matter better.

However, is it right to subject DS practitioners to faith based discrimination, encouraging DS practitioners to be expelled from the monasteries, and subjecting so many DS practitioners to dillemma and heartache.
Justifying the ban by the reasons you stated above may, in fact, justifying why the ban should be put in place and why they should continue to be in place. 

[Ensapa]

Dear Ensapa

Although what you have some truth in it.  Such as some practitioners do their DS practice more fiercely than before the ban is implemented.  Because of the ban, many people investigated the issue of DS and understand the matter better.

However, is it right to subject DS practitioners to faith based discrimination, encouraging DS practitioners to be expelled from the monasteries, and subjecting so many DS practitioners to dillemma and heartache.
Justifying the ban by the reasons you stated above may, in fact, justifying why the ban should be put in place and why they should continue to be in place.

Dear Micheala,

Even though i came out with this reasoning, I dont think it justifies the prolonging of the ban at all. It only justifies the Dalai Lama's implementation of the ban because in the long run, the ban will not help anyone at all, and eventually even if the ban stays in place, it is only a matter of time before Dorje Shugden practitioners overturn it somehow because a ban based on lies can only hold back the truth for so long, and people who are oppressed will only be oppressed for so long until they gain the momentum to turn the tables. Either way, the ban will be destroyed. There are already a lot of questions, doubts and loopholes that is currently surrounding the ban and it will be only a matter of time before it crumbles and the ban dissolves, more or less because it is based on unsound reasonings that is made to look like it is sound, but people found out about the truth on the situation.

In some way, I feel that HHDL wants to reduce his political and spiritual power over the people as he is planning for retirement and also to stop the Dalai Lama institution. I believe that his actions are meant to thin down the personality cult that revolves around him. Deep down, I feel that the Dalai Lama just wants to be a normal monk deep down inside and he is very tired of having to play all of these political games. Perhaps the ban was meant for that but at this point we can only make educated speculation based on the clues left behind and around the Dalai Lama in his recent speeches and reactions, including his statements about what is he going to do with his next reincarnation. But if Trijang Rinpoche has somewhat implicated that he knows about the ban and has given us very clear instructions to support the Dalai Lama but not dismiss Dorje Shugden this period, we should all follow that as that is not a speculation but something that was written down and it is as clear as daylight on what we should actually do with regards to the ban.

In any case, it does seem like the ban will end soon as it has already served its purpose, or rather, close to reaching its purpose.