NKT Protest dates

[GreatWheel]

A letter

I did have it up,but due to pleasing the general public and not accidentaly disclosing information,I will refrain this time..But I will say there will be actions towards to suppression and it will be held...just ask around..soon it will obvious and world-wide news so then people will know this is legit.
Just support wherever the action is happening. please.
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i LEFT THE dates intentionally blank so no one who isnt apart of this can find out and sabotage it.

[Ute]

I am highly recommending that any and all who spend time writing post to the media about the vilification of Dorje Shugden & the Devoted.
Please consider writing to ABC World News_Charles Gibson to post and entice of the upcoming protest{s}.
I cannot share why in particular, but I can say the more Mr. Gibson is informed, the more likely we will have an excellent opportunity to get a fair shot on the American National News Program.
He is a potentially powerful ally for the challenging days ahead for rectifying the wrong which has been applied to the innocents.

Careful and polite wording is hoped for in the post.

In Peace
Thom

[Helen]

Thanks Thom.

[a friend]

This is a great idea, to write to journalists right now, in order to have them alerted when the demonstrations are going to start (and it is soon, according to the info given here).
To do this (to send letters to Mr. Gibson and also to other journalists) we need some things.

1- Since all of us are considered the now famous Western DSh Society, could you please give us a common letterhead.
2- For the same reasons, could you please give us a common person or persons to whom the recipients of the letters can call, with their name, telephone numbers and addresses. This is mandatory if anything is going to be taken seriously.
3- Could someone broach a general outline for the letter? This, in order to be united in our claims.

Thank you friends.

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Recently, there has appeared a lot of these so called "letters from NKT teachers" here in public. I must say that I'm a bit sceptic about them being real and true. The small cynic living inside of me screams "enemy propaganda, enemy propaganda!" But supposing that these are real, I'd like to ask a few questions from those who post them:

- Why do you exhibit and discuss publicly these things, which are meant to be private, between the teacher and the students?

- Do you think it is wise or beneficial to your cause to openly tell to "the other side" about your activities beforehand?

- Why do you use expressions like "demonstration against HHDL"? Shouldn't you be demostrating pro religious freedom and pro Shugden, not anti DL?

Because of these things, or strategic shortcomings, I have to conclude that either you who openly post these letters in a non NKT site are either agents of "the other side" spreading disharmony, or that you are just simple and naive, bordering on the stupid. (In case of the latter, I'm sorry for this strong language, but somebody really has to point this out clearly.) So what say ya?

[a friend]

I frankly don't know why you are calling the NKT people "stupid".

These people are requesting us to join and offering to disclose the place and date of every demonstration to those who will ask privately. How are they going to request to join by remaining silent?

Your suggestion to call for demonstrations without saying that they are against the Dalai Lama might be a little bit out of focus time wise. May be the time of extreme caution and even hypocrisy is over. It is true, after all, that the demonstrations are going to be directed against the Dalai Lama's actions, and seek broad attention from the world. So may be it is time to call a spade a spade. We count on the NKT people just not to be gross or offensive. You can be truthful without being offensive.

The NKT committed 12 years ago some mistakes in communication and they have payed dearly for them. Today they might be considered innocent and not used to the world's malice but they have on their side the authority of the voice who alone confronted the Dalai Lama publicly, and the press, and the world. Fearlessly. Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. I hope this time we are not going to leave him/them alone.

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Firstly, I'm personally one of those NKT people.

And secondly, what we are now witnessing is bordering on stupidity. Really. It is one thing to disagree with the decisions and actions of a political leader, and totally another to be against him. Tibetans of course cannot distinguish these two things (hence the big mess), but we westerners sure can. And since this demonstration is mainly targeted towards the western audiences and the western opinion, it should be clear to everyone that these things must be held separate.

I have no qualm about being against a bad policy of HHDL, but I do have a qualm about being against HHDL, either his person or the institution.

It is one thing to say that EU regulations concerning the allowed curvature of all bananas sold in EU is a bad policy (there is such a directive), and totally another to be agaist the EU itself.

With that kind of language which the letter exhibited, the whole point of the demonstration becomes skewed. It is now NKT against the HHDL, instead of NKT pro religious freedom. It seems that the NKT is making just the same mistake as the last time. I have personally nothing against being or becoming a pariah, but maybe some people in the NKT have. And sadly for them, they are now getting what they didn't ask for. Soon the whole Buddhist world knows that the NKT is against HHDL. Well done, boys! Great PR work. I'm sure this helps the NKT and the recognition of DS as a valid Protector. Oh yes, I'm so sure.
____________

EDIT: Ah, now it's better. Good. Thank you.

Just to remind everyone: There are well known anti-DS (and ant-NKT) forces out there, who have a massive PR machine to back their story up and discredit everyone they deem worthy of deserving that. Everything that is said and done in the protests will, repeat will, be used to discredit the protesting party. Therefore it is of utmost importance that we give not a single tag which they can then capitulize against us. So every word and expression counts. A single slip is all that it takes for this to backfire massively. The protests must say "we are with you, but we disagree on these points on these grounds". There must be nothing that says "we are not with you, but are against you". So please, take care. Be careful.

[GreatWheel]

http://www.buddhachat.org/forum/showthread.php?p=62426

Please everyone go here...

[GreatWheel]

This link is about our forum..apparently someone uses it to get information "out" to the other side.

I very disappointed in my involvement on here(again),though I care for the tradition and the people who truly are wonderful pure practitioners..I should have listened to Geshe-la's advice and stayed away from forums..now my teacher will have to be disappointed with me and lose the trust I was so adamant on gaining.
This is my doing and though I do support the rallies and this website's cause
..I will try to stop my involvement on this website.

Everyone,
please continue to stand up for religious freedom,but be careful what you say on here..there is NO WAY to hide anything on this website..no matter how secure and moderated it is..because "Buddhists" can be hackers too..and this site is probably cake for them.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL.
I will reap what I sowed,and I don't want anyone else doing the same.

[Helen]

There may have been some mistakes in communication in protesting the Dalai Lama in 1996 (partly as the NKT was out on a limb back then and the pro-Dalai Lama spin machine is huge, David versus Goliath) but there was nothing mistaken in standing up to the Dalai Lama. He is the architect of this problem and should be held personally accountable for it, whatever other good qualities he may have.

No one is asking him to step down, no one desires or is seeking his political power; many people respect him; he is simply being asked to lift the ban. He has not responded to any private or public requests or petitions for dialogue. There is no other mechanism to communicate with him, much less hold him accountable, in the theocratic Tibetan system. What else is there to do other than stand up and be counted?

If, even if we try to avoid it, our reputation suffers as a result of speaking out against the Dalai Lama, as it has done in the past, I for one would accept that as a short-term problem compared to the destruction of our well-loved tradition. There is nothing wrong with speaking out, whereas the ban is morally indefensible.

[Helen]

dear friend,

First of all, thank you for your support In response to what you say below, I think the point about the Western Shugden Society is that it is not official. It is a loose-knit confederacy. (I've repeated how they describe themselves below). Anyone Dorje Shugden practitioner can feel a part of it.

Those members who are organizing the demonstrations are using a letterhead for those particular demonstrations so the press can get back to them. It might be wise not to put their actual press release here because everything can be and is used against us so it would be premature. (I haven't seen it but I'm sure it is well thought out).

I think for these particular demonstrations they have been carefully organized already in the case of press releases. (It would be great if people posted the names of any other journalists they think would be worth approaching so that press releases can be sent to them.)

Especially, it would be wonderful to have other Dorje Shugden supporters there on the day

Who is the Western Shugden Society?

The Western Shugden Society is only the community or confederation of Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden practitioners -- it has no leader nor registered office. We, the individual members of this Society, are organizing the demonstrations against the Dalai Lama as representatives of our Shugden society. The contact details that appear on the letter head are only for demonstration purposes.


You wrote: This is a great idea, to write to journalists right now, in order to have them alerted when the demonstrations are going to start (and it is soon, according to the info given here).
To do this (to send letters to Mr. Gibson and also to other journalists) we need some things.

1- Since all of us are considered the now famous Western DSh Society, could you please give us a common letterhead.
2- For the same reasons, could you please give us a common person or persons to whom the recipients of the letters can call, with their name, telephone numbers and addresses. This is mandatory if anything is going to be taken seriously.
3- Could someone broach a general outline for the letter? This, in order to be united in our claims.

Thank you friends.

[a friend]

Dear Mahachakra: So, you are new in this battle. You were full of enthusiasm and all the sudden you see the malice of the world and are filled with fear.
Don't fear, friend. Read Helen's post, it should serve you as a tonic.

Listen, since the Dalai Lama started his obsession against the purity of the lineage and against our Protector it's been David vs Goliath, and you are on the side of David. But things never remain the same. You have the right to speak against the Dalai Lama because his actions in the field of religion are non virtuous. And you have the right to do it in the face of the world because his actions in the field of religion are performed as a political leader, and as such he is contravening many laws of our XXI century world.

Don't worry. Even though you are not going to go into the political arena, nowadays even as a political leader the Dalai Lama is being questioned around the world. Look here in the article "He might be God, but he's not politician". Read the talks of Senator Jean Luc Melanchon, translated in this website. Read the press in Asia, in Australia, even in Seattle US. All of these voices should help to put in perspective the attacks you are going to receive no matter what.

This is something that is worth remembering. YOU ARE GOING TO BE ATTACKED NO MATTER WHAT. That is why this time you should be very clear and very specific. Give the human rights angle, that is what the world understands. Otherwise, why call to the world as a witness? It's very important for the freedom of practitioners that the world realizes what's going on and that the Dalai Lama looses some of his fabricated prestige. We are not wishing some kind of extraordinary fall and disgrace of the Dalai Lama. No matter his actions, well, I for one still consider him as a relative that has some problems with his own mind, and hate the idea of a big public disgrace. And a big public disgrace is not going to happen, forget it. But he has to loose the superstitious varnish of omniscience he is enjoying, people need to start questioning his actions, for the sake of practitioners and for the good reputation of our lineage. This is important for all sentient beings.

And, Mahachakra, of course what is said in this website is used somewhere else. This website is public. And it's becoming famous by the hour, which is very good. So go ahead, accept your fear and then just go on backing the actions of your Lama. If he is calling you to go to the streets, then go, and read this website, become very aware of what you are doing, why you are doing it, and go. Good luck to you all, NKT valiants!

[Ute]

I am thinking that the lawsuit in India that was recently filed. Would make an excellent template to forward to Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center. He has defeated the Klu Klux Klan and has targeted all Hate Group geographical location in the US. I feel certain that we could include the Tibetan Cultural Center of Tagster Norbu, the Dalia Brother in Bloomington on the map.
The arrival of four bus loads of Shugden Devoted arriving on the grounds to practice their precepts would probably cause Norbu to come raging out of his den to confront the threat and throw everybody out. An actual demonstration at a real point of departure for the schism issues would gain great news coverage and accomplish causing the center to lose it's Charter and therefore the land that was gifted with specific bylaws to fulfill and penalties for non compliance. Such as loosing  the land to another group of Universal precepts.

Maybe the Chinese can arrange such a demonstration to cut to the chaise.

I do like the Southern Poverty Center approach. Check out the site, You'll see my point.

[Ute]

I like the site of the Western Shugden Society. Although I think Confederate or Confederacy is more inclusive of everyone.
It was the American Indian Tribe of the Iroquois Nations that were the original creators of the confederation and the original 13 American Colonies founded the US Constitution upon it's precepts. Which is the foundation of the government today.

It probably too late to change , but I like the definition. I want all to feel included.
Important thing is the doing not the name.

[jeff Ryan]

Please everyone be mindful of what you say and HOW you say it. I for one am sooooo grateful Geshe Kelsang has decided to once again take up the mantle to fight the attempt by HHDL to destroy our Lineage. May I remind everyone that we have an Infallible Protector! HHDL can not win. Yes the NKT suffered some PR set backs in 1996 but look at what has been accomplished since 1996 by the NKT. NKT is the largest Gelugpa organization in the world and growing by leaps and bounds daily! Why? Because of the Blessings of the Guru, Yidam and Protector! Did PR setbacks do even the smallest harm? I don't see it! I went to their center in upstate New York at the direction of my Master to get ideas for how to decorate our new temple. I was completely blown away at the beauty of the place and the harmony of the Sangha. To those of you who fear PR setbacks please consider the consequences of us doing nothing. Now is the time to stand for what is right. Don't follow your ego. Follow your Master!