Organ Donation

[Tammy]

Organ donation is one of the greatest ways to benefit others, I think each and everyone should be registered as a organ donor, after all it's a waste of human 'parts' if we just bury or cremate dead bodies.

However, many people are hesitant to be a donor and they are reluctant to sign off their loved ones' as donor when death hits them. Reasons for his negative view are
1. Tradition believe that people must be buried whole, else they can't go to heaven with all organs intact
2. The process of removing organs will inflict great pain onto the donor, even if he/she is brain-dead

May I have everyone's view on this?

[Big Uncle]

Dear Tammy,
I totally agree with what you are saying. This is especially powerful for us, lay people who do very little Dharma that our last act is to leave our bodies so it can benefit or save someone's life. However, I don't really think people these days are still holding on to tradition the way you explained or that they are even concerned about the pain. I think people are just too distracted with the pleasures and concerns of this life to really think about death. Signing up to be an organ donor is really facing up to the fact that we may die any time and there's a level renunciation in facing this fact.

However, if you from a Buddhist tradition like Tibet, there's a certain cultural norms that does not exists in other cultures. In Buddhism, death is not the end but a means from which we take our next rebirth as propelled by the winds of karma. Hence, in order to secure a positive rebirth, Tibetans use their body as a last offering of sorts. Tibetans practice sky burial and below is an explanation from Wikipedia...

Sky burial, or ritual dissection, is a funerary practice in Tibet, wherein a human corpse is incised in certain locations and placed on a mountaintop, exposing it to the elements (mahabhuta) and animals – especially to predatory birds. The locations of preparation and sky burial are understood in the Vajrayana traditions as charnel grounds. In Tibet the practice is known as jhator (Wylie: bya gtor), which means "giving alms to the birds."

The majority of Tibetans adhere to Buddhism, which teaches rebirth. There is no need to preserve the body, as it is now an empty vessel. Birds may eat it, or nature may let it decompose. So the function of the sky burial is simply to dispose of the remains. In much of Tibet, the ground is too hard and rocky to dig a grave, and, due to the scarcity of fuel and timber, sky burials are often more practical than cremation. High lamas and some other dignitaries may receive burials so as to honor them in death, but sky burials were standard practice for commoners.

[Dorje Pakmo]

Dear Tammy and Big Uncle,
I agree a 100% with the both of you. To be able to still give even after Death is an act of true Dharma. Even more so, when the organs donated is being used for the purpose of saving another’s life.  Sky burial is also an act of giving, to sustain life of the animals that come to eat the flesh of the deceased. Both these actions of giving is highly Dharmic and generate much positive merit because the body or organ do not go to waste even when the mind has left the body. And what is more beautiful? There are no rules in Buddhism that is for or against organ donation. Buddhist or Dharma practice as we call it, centrals around the wish to relieve the suffering of others.

Many may think that the person is not whole anymore if the organs are donated. But what’s the use of these organs if one is already dead? Instead of hogging on to it and bring it into the grave, why not give it as a gift to help someone who really needs it? What we bring with us after death is the MIND. That is the only important thing we really need. With the advancement of medical science and technology today, I feel as fellow human beings, by pledging our organs to be donated makes a lot of sense, because it has a high chance of relieving the suffering of another person who may be desperately seeking for help to survive an illness or a medical complication.

"Non-attachment to the body can be seen in the context of non-attachment to self and Buddhist teachings on impermanence. Compassion is a pre-eminent quality. Giving One’s body for the good of others is seen as a virtue." (The Amida Trust)

[Ensapa]

organ donation is of course a very positive practice. However, there are 2 possible scenarios to consider: What if the consciousness have not fully left the body and the surgeons start cutting out the organs? will it still be painful? Also, is there a possibility that we were already infected with a disease that we do not know of, and we spread it to others by donating our organs? this has happened before, so will we incur negative karma?

anyway, here's a nice writeup on the Buddhist perspective of this noble act for us to contemplate:

Organ Donation
by Venerable Thubten Chodron©

In this age of medical technology, many people ask about donating their organs at death. Is it recommended from the Buddhist point of view?

First, it's important to note that this is an individual choice. Each person must decide this for him or herself, and people may make different decisions, without one choice being right and the other wrong.

Two factors to consider when making this decision are 1) will organ donation harm the dying person? 2) what is the role of compassion in making this decision?

In response to the first, unlike in some religions, in Buddhism preserving the integrity of a dead body is not important. Buddhism does not believe in the coming of a messiah or a bodily resurrection at that time. Thus, removing organs is not an issue from that point of view.

Nevertheless, the question remains if the consciousness of the dying person could be adversely affected by organ transplant, since the surgery must take place immediately upon the cessation of the breath. According to Tibetan Buddhism, the consciousness may remain in the body for hours or occasionally days after the breath has stopped. During the time between the cessation of the breath and the departure of the subtlest consciousness from the body - which is the actual moment of death - it is important for the body to be undisturbed so that the consciousness can naturally absorb into subtler states. If the body is operated upon, the consciousness may be disturbed and this could adversely affect the person's next rebirth.

On the other hand, some people have very powerful compassion and wish to donate their organs even if it could disturb their consciousness at the time of death. Such compassion for others who could use the organs is certainly admirable.

Thus, it is up to each person to decide, because each person has different concerns and capabilities. Someone who feels that his or her mind or meditation practice may be weak at death may prefer to not give their organs in order to avoid possible harm to their future lives. Others who have a strong meditation practice may not be concerned with this. Those with strong compassion may be willing to risk possible danger to themselves in order to benefit others. Each of us must look inside honestly and choose what we consider best according to our capabilities and level of practice.

[michaela]

Dear Tammy

Other than what have been said by Big Uncle, Dorje Pakmo, or Ensapa, I have other concerns about organ donations.  To my knowledge, for the organs to be useful, the organs need to be taken out immediately after death.  However, in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, it is believed the mind did not immediately leave the body after death.  It is even customary to leave/ not to disturbed the body for three days or maybe longer in the case of High Lamas who still stay in meditation for days after their death.  In this case will the organs still in good condition for donation?

BTW, how is this topic relevant to DS subject?

[Big Uncle]

Dear Tammy

Other than what have been said by Big Uncle, Dorje Pakmo, or Ensapa, I have other concerns about organ donations.  To my knowledge, for the organs to be useful, the organs need to be taken out immediately after death.  However, in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, it is believed the mind did not immediately leave the body after death.  It is even customary to leave/ not to disturbed the body for three days or maybe longer in the case of High Lamas who still stay in meditation for days after their death.  In this case will the organs still in good condition for donation?

BTW, how is this topic relevant to DS subject?

Dear Michaela,
The mind leaves the body after experiencing the dissolution of the five elements. This is in the case of an ordinary man or woman. What you are referring to is High Lamas or advanced practitioners who have total control of their death and rebirth. They would dwell in tugdam or clear light meditation, which means that their mind is still residing within the body although the body is clinically dead.

This can last for any given amount of time and while the mind resides in this meditation, the central part of the body is warm although there's no heartbeat. Most of the time, the Lama experiencing this meditation will be sitting in the posture of meditation but not necessarily in all cases. By tradition, the body should not be touched at this point. However, when the mind decides to leave the body, the head will fall to one side with a single drop of blood flowing from one of the nostrils. The body may then be moved because the mind has left the body.

For ordinary people, the manner from which the mind leaves the body would determine the realm from which the deceased would take rebirth. If the mind leaves through the lower limbs, the deceased would most likely take rebirth in a lower realm and the middle and upper part of the body would mean that the deceased have taken rebirth in a higher realm. Hence, during last rites, the ideal thing to do would be to place a holy Lamrim text on top of the head to stimulate rebirth in a higher realm. Hence, where you touch the deceased is critical at this point in time.

[brian]

one should benefit others even after your mind left your body (which is just like a temporary hotel stay if you contemplate it closely). We should make use of our precious human body to benefit others even to the last breath of our life. we have the karma/merits to be reborn as a human and one should really make full use of it rather than doing something for the benefit of themselves only. i don't believe in cremation or burying one's self as a whole body, why? when you were cremated or even buried your body organ will be destroyed/decay anyways, so why bother?? Would rather donate it off than still being attached to it.

[AnneQ]

This is indeed an interesting topic brought up by Tammy and the information given here by everyone is very enlightening, especially the one explained by Big Uncle in his/her last posting about how the minds of ordinary people differ from High Lamas or advanced practitioners at death.
My question is that taking into account the explanations given about differing levels of death, ordinary people can be organ donors but for High Lamas, it may not be ideal for them to do so?
And lastly like michaela, I am also wondering how is this topic, though interesting as it might be, relevent to the DS subject?

[dondrup]

Upon death, we abandon our body which is of no use to us.  It is then cremated or buried.  However, the organs in our body could be used to benefit others.

During the death process, the dying person experiences the dissolution of the gross mind.  At this critical moment, it is advisable that the body should remain intact and not subject to any movement or removal of organs.  As organs need to be removed immediately upon death, it affects the dissolution process of the mind and the next rebirth.  Hence, the organ donors must be absolutely sure, willing and understood the implication of organ removal. The donors must not be attached to their bodies.  This does not mean donors who are ready and understood the implications cannot donate their organs.  They have to realize the risk involved which will determine their next rebirth. 

During the death process, the gross mind will be confused by the appearances that manifest.  Unless the donors had trained and prepared their minds prior to death, they may not be able to cope with the impact of organ removal from their bodies.  How many can be 100% sure when the organs are removed during the death process, their mind will not be affected by it? 

[RedLantern]

Buddhist believe that organ donation is a matter of individual conscience and place a high value on compassion.The importance of emphasizing of letting family members know one wishes, as relate as to Buddhism.Buddhist honor those people who donate their bodies and organ is to the advantage of medical science and to saving lives.
The process of dying continues for about three days after the ceasation of breathing,Some subtle consciousness lingers for three days and disturbing the body during that time could interrupt the natural dying process and adverty affect rebirth.If an organ is to be transplanted,it must be removed as quickly as possible after the doctor have declare death.
Generally,the reluctance to donate organ is well,human-accepting the death of a loved one can be difficult for
any of us.

[Galen]

Upon death, we abandon our body which is of no use to us.  It is then cremated or buried.  However, the organs in our body could be used to benefit others.

During the death process, the dying person experiences the dissolution of the gross mind.  At this critical moment, it is advisable that the body should remain intact and not subject to any movement or removal of organs.  As organs need to be removed immediately upon death, it affects the dissolution process of the mind and the next rebirth.  Hence, the organ donors must be absolutely sure, willing and understood the implication of organ removal. The donors must not be attached to their bodies.  This does not mean donors who are ready and understood the implications cannot donate their organs.  They have to realize the risk involved which will determine their next rebirth. 

During the death process, the gross mind will be confused by the appearances that manifest.  Unless the donors had trained and prepared their minds prior to death, they may not be able to cope with the impact of organ removal from their bodies.  How many can be 100% sure when the organs are removed during the death process, their mind will not be affected by it?

Dondrup,
What a great explanation. No doubt that organ donation is a good deed and very compassionate of the person to donate their organs to save others. When we look deeper, are we able to control our minds so that in the death process we will not be attached to our organs? This is because the doctors would have to remove the organ as soon as possible and that would mean you will be disturbed. We also do not want our consciousness to leave our body from anywhere below the neck as that would constitute rebirth in the lower realms.

Is there a certain meditation that can be practiced while we are alive in order for us to not be attached to our body parts? This will definitely help a lot of organ donors and encourage more to be donors.

Nowadays, in the name of science and compassionate living, Buddhist are encouraged to donate their organs as it is an act of compassion and once our mind leaves the body, the body is no longer of any use.

[michaela]

Dear Michaela,
The mind leaves the body after experiencing the dissolution of the five elements. This is in the case of an ordinary man or woman. What you are referring to is High Lamas or advanced practitioners who have total control of their death and rebirth. They would dwell in tugdam or clear light meditation, which means that their mind is still residing within the body although the body is clinically dead.

This can last for any given amount of time and while the mind resides in this meditation, the central part of the body is warm although there's no heartbeat. Most of the time, the Lama experiencing this meditation will be sitting in the posture of meditation but not necessarily in all cases. By tradition, the body should not be touched at this point. However, when the mind decides to leave the body, the head will fall to one side with a single drop of blood flowing from one of the nostrils. The body may then be moved because the mind has left the body.

For ordinary people, the manner from which the mind leaves the body would determine the realm from which the deceased would take rebirth. If the mind leaves through the lower limbs, the deceased would most likely take rebirth in a lower realm and the middle and upper part of the body would mean that the deceased have taken rebirth in a higher realm. Hence, during last rites, the ideal thing to do would be to place a holy Lamrim text on top of the head to stimulate rebirth in a higher realm. Hence, where you touch the deceased is critical at this point in time.

Dear Big Uncle

That is what I mean.  The problem is sometimes we do not know whether a practitioner is advanced or not.  I read in one of the Dharma book that it is better to leave the body as it is for 3 days before touching them.  At that point, they may not be qualified for organ donation anymore.

[Tammy]

This is indeed an interesting topic brought up by Tammy and the information given here by everyone is very enlightening, especially the one explained by Big Uncle in his/her last posting about how the minds of ordinary people differ from High Lamas or advanced practitioners at death.
My question is that taking into account the explanations given about differing levels of death, ordinary people can be organ donors but for High Lamas, it may not be ideal for them to do so?
And lastly like michaela, I am also wondering how is this topic, though interesting as it might be, relevent to the DS subject?

First of, thank you everyone who had contributed to this discussion, I apologize if the topic in hand is 'not relevant' to Dorje Shugden, but I take this from as a place for constructive discussion and learning. I have seen a simple / innocent question led to interesting and mind blowing discussion, so why not? Do we need to limit our discussion to Dorje Shugden? Maybe, in bardo, we will have the merits of getting the help from Dorje Shugden and be able to leave our bodies is short time so it is still good for organ harvest !?

Coming back to the topic, does it mean that all organ donors are facing the risk of suffering the pain of organ harvest if heir minds had not leave the body within the stipulated time frame of organ transplant ? I don't mean to scare anyone from being a organ donor, but this is my only concern before I sign up to be one.

[Jessie Fong]

Organ donation is one of the greatest ways to benefit others, I think each and everyone should be registered as a organ donor, after all it's a waste of human 'parts' if we just bury or cremate dead bodies.

I agree with you, Tammy.

Just imagine, organs harvested from one person can go towards saving so many others.

Organ harvesting refers to the removal, preservation and use of human organs and tissue from the bodies of the recently deceased to be used in surgical transplants on the living.

With regards to your points:
However, many people are hesitant to be a donor and they are reluctant to sign off their loved ones' as donor when death hits them. Reasons for his negative view are
1. Tradition believe that people must be buried whole, else they can't go to heaven with all organs intact
2. The process of removing organs will inflict great pain onto the donor, even if he/she is brain-dead


(1) after you are dead, no matter where you "go", you do not bring this present body, so it does not matter if you "go" in a whole body or not

(2) I do not understand how removing organs will inflict great pain -- it is not like they cut you up when you are alive?

[diablo1974]

There are many myths and taboo in donating the body organs, especially in our chinese belief.  The chinese believed when we die we must die as a whole with organs intact or else we can never find back our soul. In terms of buddhism, i was told before that the human conscious must leave the dead body before we can touch and do the neccessary after death.....this includes changing of clothes and cleansing of the body.  If this is the case, prior to the consciousness leaving the dead, and if we need to operate on the body...what are the consequences?  Will the consciousness be disturbed and hinder from a good rebirth?