India Has More Reason To Claim Tibet Than China; His Holiness

[Ensapa]

Personally, I think this is true especially at this juncture because the philosophy systen that Tibet uses came directly from india and also that india has shown them much kindness by giving them a land to live on when they have been ousted from their own country. But with that said, it could disrupt the delicate political balance that China has achieved over the decades and cause chaos to descend: if the Tibetans can claim freedom, so can the Ughyurs, the Miao and the other large ethnic minorities who wish to break free. Is it worth it to have freedom for Tibet at the cost of China's stability? Hmm.

India Has More Reason To Claim Tibet Than China; His Holiness
Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:20    Mark Kernan, The Tibet Post International 
Dharamshala: In a wide ranging, and at times humorous talk, at the all India support group for Tibet conference at the TIPA institute, McLeodganj, on 9th June, 2012 the spiritual leader of Tibet, His Holiness the Dalai Lama touched on topics of both historical and contemporary interest concerning Tibet, India, Asia and indeed the World.
In particular, He thanked Indian monks for introducing Buddhism to Tibet in the seventh century (and later, by extension, the world). He also described the bonds between both countries as primarily philosophical and spiritual in nature, and that it has been a fundamentally unique relationship that has lasted over a thousand years.

The exiled spiritual leader cited the sixth century University of Nalanda (in modern day Bihar) as a place of real Buddhist teaching. Scholar monks travelled into Tibet and other areas in mid and south Asia spreading Buddhist logical philosophy and spiritual practices, and hence creating bonds between neighboring cultures that exist right up until today.

His holiness described the Buddha Dharma as ‘'an ancient Indian science'', a science that emphasized reason rather than faith. He referred to the historical Buddha as '' the first Quantum Physicist''. A theme close to the spiritual leader's heart as he has a keen interest in the links between Quantum physics view of reality and consciousness and Buddhist teachings on the same subjects.

In the 11th century another Indian monk, Padmasambhava, came to Tibet and transmitted Vajrayana Buddhism and to this day he is known as Guru Rinpoche in Tibetan culture. ‘'Indians are the Tibetans gurus'', the spiritual leader said, and the relationship is still strong, he added.

In addition, the Tibetan translation of Buddhist texts from Sanskrit is widely regarded by scholars as the most authentic form of Buddhist translation in the world today.

His Holiness elaborated on other themes mentioning that China may physically and politically control Tibet; but that mentally never [in the peoples minds], and that ironically, given all the spiritual and emotional ties,'' India has more reason to claim Tibet than China!''

‘'The preservation of Tibetan Buddhist culture is important for the world'', His holiness the Dalai Lama said, as it is a culture that practices compassion and non-violence. Therefore, he emphasized, a critical aspect of the Tibetan issue is the preservation of Tibetan culture, and Tibetan's view of the environment.

He later touched on the subject of ecological sustainability within Tibet's borders and further afield. He said that we all have a responsibility to preserve and protect the environment as, crucially; hundreds of millions of lives in Central and Southern Asia are affected by many of Asia's major rivers which have their source in the Tibetan plateau.

The Tibetan plateau has been described as the Earth's ‘third pole' such are the water reserves currently there.

In conclusion, His holiness suggested that it is not just enough for people to pray to Buddha, but that they must also gain knowledge and moreover take action based on that knowledge. That is, holistic action based on holistic thinking.

Finally, in a humorous aside, the spiritual leader ‘thanked' Beijing for their ‘actions' because it has focused media attention on China and Tibet, with that he thanked the conference for their attention and patience.

[Positive Change]

‘'The preservation of Tibetan Buddhist culture is important for the world'', His holiness the Dalai Lama said, as it is a culture that practices compassion and non-violence. Therefore, he emphasized, a critical aspect of the Tibetan issue is the preservation of Tibetan culture, and Tibetan's view of the environment.

He later touched on the subject of ecological sustainability within Tibet's borders and further afield. He said that we all have a responsibility to preserve and protect the environment as, crucially; hundreds of millions of lives in Central and Southern Asia are affected by many of Asia's major rivers which have their source in the Tibetan plateau.

The Tibetan plateau has been described as the Earth's ‘third pole' such are the water reserves currently there.

Interesting to note that HHDL shares very similar views to HH the 17th Karmapa. Actually not surprising as I am sure these beings share the same "vision" for us sentient beings. A recent talk/teaching (just before HHDL's talk at the Tibet Conference above) by HH the 17th Karmapa below:

4TH KHORYUG CONFERENCE ON ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION FOR TIBETAN BUDDHIST MONASTERIES, NUNNERIES AND DHARMA CENTRES - BIODIVERSITY, CLIMATE CHANGE AND DISASTER PREPAREDNESS

5th - 9th June -Norbulingka Institute, Dharamsala:

Given the focus of this year's conference, it seemed appropriate that, as the delegates gathered in the grounds of the Norbulingka Institute to await the arrival of His Holiness the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, the temperature was climbing steadily to 42 degrees. This year, Dharamsala has experienced both unusually severe winter conditions, with snow filling the Kangra Valley for the first time in fifty years, and unusually high summer temperatures. It is a reminder to everyone present that we are now living with climate change impacts.

Celebrating World Environment Day, His Holiness the 17th Karmapa and the Honorable Speaker of the Tibetan Parliament launched the 4th Khoryug Conference on Environmental Protection for Tibetan Buddhist Monasteries, which will focus on Biodiversity, Climate Change and Natural Disaster Preparedness.
The aims of the conference are to both educate monks and nuns in environmental science, and to develop self-reliance within Buddhist institutions, so that in the face of climate change and natural disasters they have a pre-prepared plan and are able to function as leaders within the community.

After prayers for the auspiciousness of the gathering, the Gyalwang Karmapa opened the conference by saying "Preserving the biodiversity and the ecosystems of our region should be like the effortless practice of dharma for us. Our basic motivation to protect the environment should come from the pure desire to benefit all sentient beings on earth since without the environment, there can be no life." The delegates from over 45 different monastic institutions listened intently to His Holiness' speech and to the guest of honor, Mr Penpa Tsering, Speaker of the Tibetan Assembly.

The conference facilitator, Dekila Chungyalpa, director of the WWF Sacred Earth Program, based in Washington DC, gave the first presentation, illustrated by slides, on the concepts of biodiversity, ecosystem, ecosystem services and tipping point. Taking them one by one, she explained what they were, their importance, and how they are inter-related and how we are affected. One of the workshop goals is to demonstrate how to see nature as whole systems, she said, paralleling the holistic approach which is fundamental to Buddhist philosophy. Finally, she presented an overview and update of threats to biodiversity and the impact of climate change, two topics which will be dealt with in greater detail over the coming days.

The afternoon session was devoted to feedback from the various monastic institutions present, detailing what they had been doing in the past year to further environmental protection. This is an important function of Khoryug conferences since it provides a monitoring and evaluation framework for the projects that the monasteries undertake. Projects range from the truly impressive including thousands native trees planted in degraded watersheds to the humble where many monasteries put aside a day in the month to clean their community and town areas. Some representatives share the difficulties that they face including the disinterest among their community members in keeping their environment clean and hygienic, and or mixed reforestation results. Others share their unique experiences in achieving success and finding out that their organic farms have made them close to completely self-sufficient for fresh produce.

[dsiluvu]

‘'The preservation of Tibetan Buddhist culture is important for the world'', His holiness the Dalai Lama said, as it is a culture that practices compassion and non-violence. Therefore, he emphasized, a critical aspect of the Tibetan issue is the preservation of Tibetan culture, and Tibetan's view of the environment.

He later touched on the subject of ecological sustainability within Tibet's borders and further afield. He said that we all have a responsibility to preserve and protect the environment as, crucially; hundreds of millions of lives in Central and Southern Asia are affected by many of Asia's major rivers which have their source in the Tibetan plateau.

I really don't think China will loosen its grip on Tibet since there is so much environmental resources. Plus like you said Ensapa it will create an example for Ughyurs, the Miao and the other large ethnic minorities who wish to break free from China... this is probably why China has remained firm and strongly opposed to any dialogue wirth HHDL.

It seems HHDL is heading full speed in creating any opportunity towards a dialogue with China. The article before you Ensapa highlighted the need to question any instruction given by HHDL and that people should not just blindly follow, which they have, and now this??? Seems like we a witnessing a change in strategy. I wonder if all our postings and suggestions and ideas are being checked here by the CTA .. I hope they are doing so because honestly they need it! Like I and many have said... you cannot ask what you do not give your very people - FREEDOM! Hence in a funny way... this is kinda good news. And lets hope those who took HHDL literally would literally do so now as well - stop oppressing your people and lift the Dorje Shugden ban please!!!

[shugdenprotect]

The chances of Tibet gaining sovereignty from China would require something of a miracle. Unless the political and economical dynamics of the world changes drastically, it is unlikely that anyone would want to offend China in any way. So, with China not having intention to let go and India (or any other country for that matter) having the courage to take on Tibet.

I believe we should focus more on the statements made by both HH and The 17th Karmapa about the environment. If we look beyond the borders of a country and realize the urgent need for us to start preserving our earth, we may actually be using our intellectual and emotional resource for a more constructive and beneficial matter.

Similarly, if we focus our energy on strengthening our Dharma practice and not get sucked into the political aspect of the Dorje Shugden controversy, we will actually make more progress in our spiritual growth which is most beneficial when the ban is lifted and we can share our knowledge and experience about Dorje Shugden with millions of curious spiritual seekers.

[hope rainbow]

The chances of Tibet gaining sovereignty from China would require something of a miracle. Unless the political and economical dynamics of the world changes drastically, it is unlikely that anyone would want to offend China in any way. So, with China not having intention to let go and India (or any other country for that matter) having the courage to take on Tibet.

I believe we should focus more on the statements made by both HH and The 17th Karmapa about the environment. If we look beyond the borders of a country and realize the urgent need for us to start preserving our earth, we may actually be using our intellectual and emotional resource for a more constructive and beneficial matter.

Similarly, if we focus our energy on strengthening our Dharma practice and not get sucked into the political aspect of the Dorje Shugden controversy, we will actually make more progress in our spiritual growth which is most beneficial when the ban is lifted and we can share our knowledge and experience about Dorje Shugden with millions of curious spiritual seekers.

What we see from this actually is that Tibet has very strong links with both India and China, two nations that are becoming world leading nations in this century.
And yet, Tibet has ground to stand on its own too, because it is neither Indian nor Chinese.
Today it may be administered by China and "chinesized" to ensure it di facto belongs to China proper.
Although it is rather unfortunate for a culture to be diluted within another, it is not a new phenomena in history, in fact it is a rather common phenomena.

Egypt was hellenized by the Ptolemean rulers (and these rulers were Egyptianized too); Constantinople switched from being the spiritual seat of the Orthodox Asian Christian church to become a flagship city of a Muslim nation in the 15th century and still is to this day; the USA became English, then American; South America offers the same examples; all ethnic groups living in South Africa including the black Africans all came from other countries in Europe or Africa; Portugal and Spain were in turn Christians, then Muslim, then Christians; the Roman Empire was "pagan", as they say, before becoming Christian; it seems as if in countries like Germany people are getting concerned that the Muslim population is rising; in fact Buddhism is rising in Europe and in the USA as a prominent religious practice...

Well, nothing is permanent, not even, and perhaps especially not so, the civilizations. How many great civilizations have disappeared? The Mayas, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, Angkor Vat, Great Kingdoms, Great cities have vanished. This is the way it is.
And our civilization is possibly the weakest of all, we only need to loose energy and we are doomed (read Barjavels' "Ashes"), not to mention the threat of natural disaster that is like the Damocles sword hanging over our heads (and believe me that is not Manjushri's sword).

So where is Tibet today?
Is that really a fight that can still be won?
Can we bend the cycles of change? Many have tried in Constantinople, many have tried in Rome...
What is worth a battle? What is worth preserving? Can something be preserved that has the potential to remain and adapt to new civilizations, something that remains pertinent, logical and helpful whichever shape the civilization takes?

There is something, and it is Dharma and for two reasons:
1. It is helpful (salvatory in fact) in any place in the universe,
2. It is applicable to any civilization as it adjusts to the customs with EXACTLY the same message and teachings.

So instead of claiming a territory, we can claim that the Buddha's teachings apply to ourselves.
That does not require a piece of land or a country, it only requires intelligence, compassion and faith.

[Big Uncle]

Actually, I think that the Dalai Lama has a good point about India and Tibet. Tibetan culture is deeply entrenched in the Buddhist tradition. The source of this Buddhist tradition came originally from India and it found its way over the Himalayas into Tibet centuries ago. Due to many factors, Buddhism died in India but the torch was carried on and thrived in the Tibetan snowy mountains.

The impenetrable Himalayas has made Tibet a relatively isolated kingdom and thus it was largely left alone to develop the Buddhist tradition. It is said that Tibet received the best of spiritual philosophy from India, the best food from China and the best of garments from Mongolia.

However, having said that, there's really nothing the Dalai Lama or India can do about the situation. China is way too powerful and nationalistic to even consider separating Tibet from the 'motherland'. In this day and age, no country is willing to wage war because of the immense cost involved. Instead, countries wage wars on the economic front and the Chinese are good at exploiting its economic might to pressure countries to bow down to its demands, especially on the Tibet subject.

Therefore, it will never enter the minds of the Chinese leaders to allow such outlandish idea of giving up Tibet to India. The only possibility of that happening would be war and that would devastate the fragile Indian economy and disrupt the growing Chinese economy. There's not even a glimmer of possibility for that to even happen. I feel the Dalai Lama is just exploring and thinking about the similarities and perhaps longing for India to actually rule Tibet but that's not going to happen.

[Ensapa]

This time what HHDL says there is a basis. The Tibetans do look up to india as a role model country, especially in terms of philosophy and the sciences. Even their writing was derived from sanskrit, not to mention their religion also came from india. The Tibetans would feel more at home if it was India who is administering their land as opposed to China. But know this: Tibet has been pillaging China during Songtsen Gampo's time, and in the Chinese records, it is said that Songtsen Gampo demanded Wencheng's hand in marriage and when the king refused, he kept pillaging the lands of China repeatedly until the Chinese king had no choice but to give in to his demand. Perhaps this caused Tibet to be taken over by China.

However, with that said, I dont think that India would risk any relations with China to help Tibet in this way. I dont think HHDL is serious and that he just wants to provoke China more in some way as China has been quite arrogant and insistent on taking and ruling Tibet. I dont know what good can it be done by provoking China, but it would probably push them  to rethink the policies that has been implemented on Tibet and to actually change that so that the people there will not suffer that much anymore. Perhaps it might work and perhaps it would not work, but it shows that HHDL cares about the people in Tibet but not the independence.

The Indian government has already done so much for Tibet. They have been so kind in allowing the Tibetans to stay on their land even though they could have refused their entry and allowed them to build monasteries and have a government. Which other country would allow that? Nepal allowed the Tibetans to settle there, build their own colonies, build the temples, but not allow them to have any administrative office at all. If Tibet was offered to india if and when it becomes free (because CTA will always be incompetent...) it would be a very touching show of gratitude to the Indian government. Perhaps, its not such a bad idea after all.

[vajratruth]

I cannot help but wonder what HHDL’s motive is in making that statement. I can only imagine that it is because HHDL recognizes that as the global balance of power shifts from the West to Asia, the only super power that can stand up to China politically, economically and strategically is India and HHDL is preparing India to take a more active role in the political aspects of Tibet's spiritual affairs.

India and China has long been rival although they are not enemies. As it is, there are a number of unresolved issues that plague the relationship, namely:

•   The unresolved border issue. The border that India and China share spans some 2000 kilometers, the boundary of which have never been formally delineated. There are no shortage of examples where full-scale confrontations have broken out from smaller disputes over borders;
 
•    India has always held a grudge against China for its political friendship with Pakistan, Indian’s natural enemy. Today China still supplies Pakistan with nuclear and aircraft technology. For India, the China-Pakistan relationship is the ever present threat of a 2-front war which India can ill afford and therefore India has been strengthening ties with the US;

•   China quietly feels that Indian is part of a secret US plot to encircle the country, as evidenced by the US-Indian Civilian Nuclear Agreement. China feel that India is the key to an silent attempt at military containment of China by the US;

•   China is also weary of India as its biggest economic rival especially given recent statistics that show China’s economic growth to be slowing down while India is still experiencing growth at a much steadier pace.

China’s annexation and ongoing occupation of Lhasa has not helped and India’s granting of political asylum to HHDL is seen as a slap in China’s face especially since India does formally recognize Tibet as a territory of China.

So what can HHDL’s motive be? I can think of 2:

(i)   HHDL can foresee that at some point in the near future there will be a reconciliation of sorts between the exiled Tibetan Administration and the Chinese Government. At that time the exiled Tibetans will be allowed back into the country with some compromise on the roles of the CTA in governing Tibet. HHDL is engaging India to be more than an asylum provider but to assume the role of protector;

(ii)   Alternatively, HHDL is readying India to be the resident country of the next (15th) Dalai Lama. India, in the Dalai Lam’s plan is to be the political clout behind the appointment of future Dalai Lamas to counter China’s claim in 2007 to be the final authority in the process that recognizes reincarnated Lamas.

China claims the authority to choose the Dalai Lama because it possesses the Golden Urn, a relic that was used by the Manchu emperors to anoint Tibetan lamas in their efforts to exert control over Tibet. In 1995, China used the urn ceremony to appoint the 11th Panchen Lama, rejecting the boy identified by the Dalai Lama as the reincarnation of the 10th Panchen Lama. HHDL is now looking for insurance that history does not repeat itself with the appointment of the Dalai Lama’s successor. HHDL wants India to claim its stake as the patron of future Dalai Lamas. In 2011 HHDL himself said "If we are still in exile then, my successor will presumably have to be found somewhere in India, certainly outside Tibet".

[Ensapa]

I cannot help but wonder what HHDL’s motive is in making that statement. I can only imagine that it is because HHDL recognizes that as the global balance of power shifts from the West to Asia, the only super power that can stand up to China politically, economically and strategically is India and HHDL is preparing India to take a more active role in the political aspects of Tibet's spiritual affairs.

India and China has long been rival although they are not enemies. As it is, there are a number of unresolved issues that plague the relationship, namely:

•   The unresolved border issue. The border that India and China share spans some 2000 kilometers, the boundary of which have never been formally delineated. There are no shortage of examples where full-scale confrontations have broken out from smaller disputes over borders;
 
•    India has always held a grudge against China for its political friendship with Pakistan, Indian’s natural enemy. Today China still supplies Pakistan with nuclear and aircraft technology. For India, the China-Pakistan relationship is the ever present threat of a 2-front war which India can ill afford and therefore India has been strengthening ties with the US;
China always has a policy of assisting weaker countries. It has assisted many african countries that were war torn before in their construction projects, and therefore, that is just how China operates. It has assisted vietnam and north korea, even though north korea has treated its citizens roughly and is without any gratitude.

•   China quietly feels that Indian is part of a secret US plot to encircle the country, as evidenced by the US-Indian Civilian Nuclear Agreement. China feel that India is the key to an silent attempt at military containment of China by the US;
China has always been insecure of itself and has always feared the americans in many ways as they a bigger influence in the world today as compared to China. However, the US has never given any visible aid to the Indians to justify it as being US's ally.

•   China is also weary of India as its biggest economic rival especially given recent statistics that show China’s economic growth to be slowing down while India is still experiencing growth at a much steadier pace.

China’s annexation and ongoing occupation of Lhasa has not helped and India’s granting of political asylum to HHDL is seen as a slap in China’s face especially since India does formally recognize Tibet as a territory of China.

I dont think China minds that bit one part, as long as the tibetans are not in Chinese soil and are not causing dissent. The Chinese are not that petty to hate India due to that.

So what can HHDL’s motive be? I can think of 2:

(i)   HHDL can foresee that at some point in the near future there will be a reconciliation of sorts between the exiled Tibetan Administration and the Chinese Government. At that time the exiled Tibetans will be allowed back into the country with some compromise on the roles of the CTA in governing Tibet. HHDL is engaging India to be more than an asylum provider but to assume the role of protector;
That will only happen if Dharamsala becomes a sprawling and well developed metropolis and when the Tibetans finally practice the art of forgiving which the Dalai Lama has been talking about for so many years, ye they fail to actualize it so that they wont make stupid comments against China which will sabotage their chances even more for talks.

(ii)   Alternatively, HHDL is readying India to be the resident country of the next (15th) Dalai Lama. India, in the Dalai Lam’s plan is to be the political clout behind the appointment of future Dalai Lamas to counter China’s claim in 2007 to be the final authority in the process that recognizes reincarnated Lamas.

China claims the authority to choose the Dalai Lama because it possesses the Golden Urn, a relic that was used by the Manchu emperors to anoint Tibetan lamas in their efforts to exert control over Tibet. In 1995, China used the urn ceremony to appoint the 11th Panchen Lama, rejecting the boy identified by the Dalai Lama as the reincarnation of the 10th Panchen Lama. HHDL is now looking for insurance that history does not repeat itself with the appointment of the Dalai Lama’s successor. HHDL wants India to claim its stake as the patron of future Dalai Lamas. In 2011 HHDL himself said "If we are still in exile then, my successor will presumably have to be found somewhere in India, certainly outside Tibet".

In some ways, HHDL is making a very smart move by not allowing China to control his reincarnation. No matter what China wants to believe, the Tibetans will never accept a Chinese Dalai Lama, especially those of them who are now in exile and so will the world. If the Dalai Lama decides to dissolve the Dalai Lama's role and title, it will not give China a chance to exert its control on the Tibetans, and Tibetan Buddhists as well.

In some ways, i still stand by my position that HHDL is only saying such things to provoke the Chinese into realizing that Tibet does not really belong to them and they have to use other methods to control the Tibetans. This is another skillful way that the Dalai Lama has manifested for the happiness of the Tibetans in Tibet.