Lama Jampa Ngodup Rinpoche

[Losang_Tenpa]

Lama Jampa Ngodup Rinpoche's Warning	Small | Large

[Big Uncle]

Cool teaching and biting logic. I have transcribed the subtitles down here and have done light addition of punctuation and so forth. However, the words have been untouched. Do take a read and comment on what makes you feel about the whole Dorje Shugden issue.

...including Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyue etc...No.We never have. Doing such things is totally against the precept of refuge vows and are contradictory so we have not accumulated such sins but nowadays, people burn, throw away, disrespect the pictures and Dharma texts composed by the Lamas like Kyabje Phabongkha, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, Ling Dorje Chang, Dagom Rinpoche, in India.

In Tibet, Lamrim Rinpoche, Kagyur Lama Rinpoche, Rinchen Gompo Rinpoche, Chabdo Khen Rinpoche, Gen Gyaltsen Rinpoche, Gyuetoe Khen Rinpoche so such deadly sins are against the code of refuge vows or not? Think carefully. Those people, who have committed such heavy unwholesome deeds, do not have the refuge vows, whatsoever!!! There isn't any basis that we the practitioners can be called the lack of the refuge vows..

And secondly... If you go for refuge in the Dharma you have to respect every single letter of it, for instance, if there's half-formed letter of OM you got to respect it as if Dharma (one of triratna) so wherever it appears, on a paper, on ground or on the rock, you should respect it. Its (the) same in every sects of Tibetan Buddhism Nyingma, Sakya, Geluk and Kagyue. Any Lamas of Dharmapala practitioners, has never gave such provocative statements to influence his disciples to burn pictures of non-practitioners Lamas and deities or to throw away into garbages and disrespect so we don't have aforementioned sins......

But nowadays...sort of such transgressors apparently exist, some people burn and disrespect Drepung Lamrim Rinpoches composed texts in very bad manner... who are they??? They are those who blindly follow whatever an evil-driven, self-centered man has told, they certainly are culprits.... The spiritual texts related to Dorje Shugden, this compositions of Kyabje Phabongkhapa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang etc, have been burned, thrown away in garbages.... now.... think! Aren't these activities against Buddha Shakyamuni and his teachings? Aren't these activities contradictory to the code of refuge vows yet they (transgressors) criticize that we don't have refuge vows.. In reality they don't have it. One has it or not, has to be referred and accorded to the Buddha Shakyamuni and (in) his precious teachings...

One could not determine you have it or not or someone else has it or not... Its not like that !!! It should be carefully analysed and make it more comprehensive... Then it will be unearthed by itself... Who are who and who are thieves and who are not!! People considered someone as if a thief who has never stolen anything but people considered someone as if the nicest guy who actually is an expert in stealing things !

Having a fair assessment by yourself is he only way to know yourself whether you have pure vows... Not just by saying words!! Then comes Sangha, if you go for refuge in the Sangha, whether someone has wisdom or not, educated or not, doesn't matter. You have to pay homage as if authentic Sangha. This is what (the) Buddha has said !!! We never assial (denounce) any Sangha, or its sect instead we respect all kinds of Sangha community, from bottom of our hearts, but don't they (transgressors) criticize us and our Dharma Protector?

Of course they do. Not just ordinary one but highly-realized master like Kagyur Lama Rinpoche who has equal wisdom to Je-Tsongkhapa. Those who burned and stepped over his portrait and disrespect, are not Buddhist or monks at all !!! Certain group of people have been criticizing by saying that Chabdo Monastery (Kham, Tibet) and Dakyab Monastery (Kham, Tibet) etc are ghost worshippers. Yet they doubt whether the practitioners have vows...

If a heavy, bad karma is accumulated when criticizing an individual monk then imagine how mighty bad karma you will accumulate criticizing whole Sangha community. Don't be a partial or sentimental toward your own side... Be fair and egalitarian, then the truth will surely come out right away !!! Our reference is Buddha Shakyamuni and (his) teachings. Don't argue with each other, that I am more handsome than you, just go in front of mirror... its over!!!

Its (the) same... We argue each other that our Dharma is more pure than yours... Just refer to the Buddha's teachings... Then the truth will appear... its done!! Buddha's teachings are like a clean mirror (that) lets see who's Dharma is more pure... My such statements may cause uncomfortable to every type of person; high-class, middle-class and ordinary people... I said these all accordingly to Buddha's teachings so no one should be hurt by my words !!! I haven't distorted anything if you think it hurts then I have no option.

Buddha's teachings are so straight as if a line. It may cause uncomfortable (feelings) for some people but it doesn't mean that his teachings have flows(flaws). Their (are not) thoughts and behaviours related to an evil for instance.. Buddha has said that stealing is an unwholesome deeds but it may disturb to the thieves... But Buddha has not said that specifically to those in order to make them (feel) uncomfortable !!

[Losang_Tenpa]

Thanks for taking the time to type this out.

[dsiluvu]

But nowadays...sort of such transgressors apparently exist, some people burn and disrespect Drepung Lamrim Rinpoches composed texts in very bad manner... who are they??? They are those who blindly follow whatever an evil-driven, self-centered man has told, they certainly are culprits.... The spiritual texts related to Dorje Shugden, this compositions of Kyabje Phabongkhapa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang etc, have been burned, thrown away in garbages.... now.... think! Aren't these activities against Buddha Shakyamuni and his teachings? Aren't these activities contradictory to the code of refuge vows yet they (transgressors) criticize that we don't have refuge vows.. In reality they don't have it. One has it or not, has to be referred and accorded to the Buddha Shakyamuni and (in) his precious teachings...

If a heavy, bad karma is accumulated when criticizing an individual monk then imagine how mighty bad karma you will accumulate criticizing whole Sangha community. Don't be a partial or sentimental toward your own side... Be fair and egalitarian, then the truth will surely come out right away !!! Our reference is Buddha Shakyamuni and (his) teachings. Don't argue with each other, that I am more handsome than you, just go in front of mirror... its over!!!

Perhaps they don't have enough merits to help them gain insight to the teachings because in the first place the motivation was wrong to begin with!!! The consequences they would face for such an act is unbelievable and if Dorje Shugden is not an Enlightened protector... what about the author of those texts, are they not Lamas? And even if one might think they a wrong in spreading Dorje Shugden but still they are highly attained Lamas and to burn books written by these Lamas (some of which I believe were written by HH Trijang Dorje Chang and H.H Pabongkha Dorje Chang... plus the statues which they drag out and step inside had a lot of holy relics! Gosh what kind of karma are they going to collect?!
 
More over now HHDL is now changing his tune to encourage questioning... question the Guru's to get clarification until one is firm and satisfied...

Anyway, whether the original reasons for certain interpretations were due to individual students, other considerations or plain misunderstanding, it may prove necessary for later individuals to clarify things. Rectifying, clarifying and the like are generally accepted approaches for the learned and completely in step with the correct general approach to the teachings. This is way to proceed and help to guard against decline. ~ HH The 14th Dalai Lama
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2225.msg31365#msg31365

[Ensapa]

I'd like to put some additional comments to this piece

Cool teaching and biting logic. I have transcribed the subtitles down here and have done light addition of punctuation and so forth. However, the words have been untouched. Do take a read and comment on what makes you feel about the whole Dorje Shugden issue.

...including Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyue etc...No.We never have. Doing such things is totally against the precept of refuge vows and are contradictory so we have not accumulated such sins but nowadays, people burn, throw away, disrespect the pictures and Dharma texts composed by the Lamas like Kyabje Phabongkha, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, Ling Dorje Chang, Dagom Rinpoche, in India.
another side effect of the ban: the destruction of holy texts that will be the basis of ruin for people who do that. It wont be that hard to figure out that people who have to resort to such actions will also have no attainments no matter how long they have practiced as they do not see value in the Dharma at all. And they call themselves Buddhist?
In Tibet, Lamrim Rinpoche, Kagyur Lama Rinpoche, Rinchen Gompo Rinpoche, Chabdo Khen Rinpoche, Gen Gyaltsen Rinpoche, Gyuetoe Khen Rinpoche so such deadly sins are against the code of refuge vows or not? Think carefully. Those people, who have committed such heavy unwholesome deeds, do not have the refuge vows, whatsoever!!! There isn't any basis that we the practitioners can be called the lack of the refuge vows..

And secondly... If you go for refuge in the Dharma you have to respect every single letter of it, for instance, if there's half-formed letter of OM you got to respect it as if Dharma (one of triratna) so wherever it appears, on a paper, on ground or on the rock, you should respect it. Its (the) same in every sects of Tibetan Buddhism Nyingma, Sakya, Geluk and Kagyue. Any Lamas of Dharmapala practitioners, has never gave such provocative statements to influence his disciples to burn pictures of non-practitioners Lamas and deities or to throw away into garbages and disrespect so we don't have aforementioned sins......
This is true, but despite that, why do people still do what they did? They know that Dharma texts are holy items irregardless of the author. Does this mean that on the basis of the ban, they are allowed to break their refuge vows coz HHDL said its okay when it comes to Dorje Shugden lamas? Hmmmmm.
But nowadays...sort of such transgressors apparently exist, some people burn and disrespect Drepung Lamrim Rinpoches composed texts in very bad manner... who are they??? They are those who blindly follow whatever an evil-driven, self-centered man has told, they certainly are culprits.... The spiritual texts related to Dorje Shugden, this compositions of Kyabje Phabongkhapa Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang etc, have been burned, thrown away in garbages.... now.... think! Aren't these activities against Buddha Shakyamuni and his teachings? Aren't these activities contradictory to the code of refuge vows yet they (transgressors) criticize that we don't have refuge vows.. In reality they don't have it. One has it or not, has to be referred and accorded to the Buddha Shakyamuni and (in) his precious teachings...
Sad to know that adherents to the ban can do such things to the Dharma texts, it would be the basis for them to suffer a lot in the near future as a result of their actions. It would basically mean that people who throw away these texts are the same as people who have thrown away their refuge vows into the dumpster as well. They are not really Buddhists anymore as they disregard the Buddha's teachings

One could not determine you have it or not or someone else has it or not... Its not like that !!! It should be carefully analysed and make it more comprehensive... Then it will be unearthed by itself... Who are who and who are thieves and who are not!! People considered someone as if a thief who has never stolen anything but people considered someone as if the nicest guy who actually is an expert in stealing things !

Having a fair assessment by yourself is he only way to know yourself whether you have pure vows... Not just by saying words!! Then comes Sangha, if you go for refuge in the Sangha, whether someone has wisdom or not, educated or not, doesn't matter. You have to pay homage as if authentic Sangha. This is what (the) Buddha has said !!! We never assial (denounce) any Sangha, or its sect instead we respect all kinds of Sangha community, from bottom of our hearts, but don't they (transgressors) criticize us and our Dharma Protector?

Of course they do. Not just ordinary one but highly-realized master like Kagyur Lama Rinpoche who has equal wisdom to Je-Tsongkhapa. Those who burned and stepped over his portrait and disrespect, are not Buddhist or monks at all !!! Certain group of people have been criticizing by saying that Chabdo Monastery (Kham, Tibet) and Dakyab Monastery (Kham, Tibet) etc are ghost worshippers. Yet they doubt whether the practitioners have vows...
Definitely these people would have already lost all their vows, monk or not as they dont even see this as a negative action. They see this as something positive.

If a heavy, bad karma is accumulated when criticizing an individual monk then imagine how mighty bad karma you will accumulate criticizing whole Sangha community. Don't be a partial or sentimental toward your own side... Be fair and egalitarian, then the truth will surely come out right away !!! Our reference is Buddha Shakyamuni and (his) teachings. Don't argue with each other, that I am more handsome than you, just go in front of mirror... its over!!!

Its (the) same... We argue each other that our Dharma is more pure than yours... Just refer to the Buddha's teachings... Then the truth will appear... its done!! Buddha's teachings are like a clean mirror (that) lets see who's Dharma is more pure... My such statements may cause uncomfortable to every type of person; high-class, middle-class and ordinary people... I said these all accordingly to Buddha's teachings so no one should be hurt by my words !!! I haven't distorted anything if you think it hurts then I have no option.
That is what being sectarian really is, not the idea that not partaking in the practices of another tradition is sectarian, like what the CTA promotes.

Buddha's teachings are so straight as if a line. It may cause uncomfortable (feelings) for some people but it doesn't mean that his teachings have flows(flaws). Their (are not) thoughts and behaviours related to an evil for instance.. Buddha has said that stealing is an unwholesome deeds but it may disturb to the thieves... But Buddha has not said that specifically to those in order to make them (feel) uncomfortable !!

This is a very brilliant Lama who really speaks the truth and is not around just to collect donations by polishing the apples of his disciples. I find that most Dorje Shugden Lamas tend to have more logic and is wiser in their approaches in the Dharma and they tend to be more direct which is what the people need so that they can benefit from the teachings. Again, this is a quality that Dorje Shugden Lamas tend to have as compared to the "clean" ones. I have not heard of one famous anti Shugden Gelug lama...yet and that speaks alot.