A western view of Guru devotion

[Ensapa]

I found this really ridiculous article on Guru devotion and the clause...

Recognising boundaries

Possibly the most critical issue that arises in relationship to the guru is the potential for a loss of appropriate boundaries. As a psychotherapist there is consistent emphasis on the understanding of how teachers and therapists need to be clear of their ethical boundaries, especially because of the power imbalance in the relationship. When we consider the power we often give away to our gurus the assumption we make is that they will be skilful with us and not be abusive or exploitative. Unfortunately this is often misunderstood by both teachers and students. Boundaries imply a teacher or guru will respect the needs and vulnerabilities of a student and not take advantage of them for his own needs. This can be materially, economically, emotionally or sexually. Materially it is very easy for teachers to exploit the devoted student who wishes to practice generosity towards them and so provide money, material goods, a home, work, and so on out of devotion. Gurus can get very rich on the offerings of their disciples and in Tibet the estates of the highly revered Tulkus where often extremely wealthy and powerful.

Emotionally there can be a tendency for some gurus to actually feed on the devotion of their students. It can nourish a narcissistic need for love and to be seen as special that has been there since childhood. Possibly the worst form of exploitation is the sexual abuse of female students to satisfy a need of the teacher. It is this, which is the most blatant form of abuse of boundary and power and can often be dismissed or denied within the context of a dysfunctional community of disciples.

For a relationship between a teacher or guru and student to be healthy psychologically and emotionally ethical boundaries must be clear. I have seen in my work as a therapist and mentor that students who have experienced a teacher’s confused or loose boundaries suffer greatly. Students may then find they have no one within their community to speak to about it because there is a taboo against criticizing the guru. They may find that their community does not really want to know. The result is that the very heart of their spirituality has been betrayed.

Our teachers need to hold clear boundaries around their emotional and physical behaviour so that it does not become harmful to students. What can be problematic for us as Western Tibetan Buddhists is that some Tibetan lamas may not understand what this means in the West. Within their own culture boundaries were often implicit in the world in which they lived, be it the monastery or the Tibetan culture. What we need to recognise is that once Tibetan lamas move to the West they are not always held within their own culture and so it is totally dependent upon their own integrity to have clear boundaries. Sadly this integrity is sometimes lacking and lamas can become a kind of law unto themselves creating their own culture with boundaries that are arbitrary or absent. This culture can become like a dysfunctional family where a lama becomes an all-powerful parent whose needs and wishes are paramount. Who then is going to provide the safe and trusting environment within which a Westerner can practice and grow?

http://www.mudra.co.uk/mudra_devotion.html

If Tilopa respected Naropa's boundaries as a prince, I dont think Naropa could have attained enlightenment. If Marpa respected Milarepa's boundaries as a man, I dont think he would be able to purify his negative karma either and attain enlightenment. So what boundaries is this person talking about? Dont you just love it when people start to interpret teachings in accordance with their comfort zones? To me, it just sounds funny and ridiculous no matter how you want to see it. What do you guys think about Guru devotion in this way?

[Tammy]

We have to admit the fact that there are many 'guru' who make use of their 'students' devotion him by making them pay him money, total submissioand of sex.

My views on this article:

(1) In this case, the writer is (as I understood, I may be wrong) a psychiatrist and he commented on the guru-student relationship from clinical point of view n not from spiritual point of view. Hence I don't think he is 'qualify' to comment on this relationship.

(2) he views thing superficially and did not duel into the movitation of the guru when he did what he did to his students

(3) to take on a serious guru-student relationship, both parties need to check each others out, make sure they are the 'real-deal' before they seal it. The writer did not mention whether those students had gone thru proper research and observation before they jumped into the relationship and go all the way. Like it or not we are in samsara which is full of peple with bad motivation.

[Ensapa]

We have to admit the fact that there are many 'guru' who make use of their 'students' devotion him by making them pay him money, total submissioand of sex.
To be honest, if a student gets exploited by an unqualified teacher, it is the students' fault for not checking out the teacher beforehand. I am very sorry to have to say this, but people should really be completely aware of who they are taking as a teacher before committing. Would anyone buy a house without checking?

My views on this article:

(1) In this case, the writer is (as I understood, I may be wrong) a psychiatrist and he commented on the guru-student relationship from clinical point of view n not from spiritual point of view. Hence I don't think he is 'qualify' to comment on this relationship.
If he is, the more he should not comment on a Guru-Student relationship. But it seems that his "advice" is quite taken in by many people.

(2) he views thing superficially and did not duel into the movitation of the guru when he did what he did to his students
That's right!

(3) to take on a serious guru-student relationship, both parties need to check each others out, make sure they are the 'real-deal' before they seal it. The writer did not mention whether those students had gone thru proper research and observation before they jumped into the relationship and go all the way. Like it or not we are in samsara which is full of peple with bad motivation.
The writer also conveniently missed out many stories of Guru devotion where the Guru does not act in accordance with the student's safe zone and how the students have improved since. Plus, there are these criterias that one should consider when picking a Guru:

7. A disciple with sense should not accept as his Guru someone who lacks compassion or who is angersome, vicious or arrogant, possessive, undisciplined or boasts of his knowledge.

8. (A Guru should be) stable (in his actions), cultivated (in his speech), wise, patient and honest. He should neither conceal his shortcomings, nor pretend to possess qualities he lacks. He should be an expert in the meanings (of tantra) and in its ritual procedures (of medicine and turning back obstacles). Also he should have loving compassion and a complete knowledge of the scriptures.

9. He should have full experience in both ten fields, skill in the drawing of mandalas, full knowledge of how to explain the tantras, supreme faith and his senses fully under control.
 

There are consequences to ignoring old and holy texts such as the 50 verses of Guru devotion. many people tend to avoid it because they are afraid it will make them sound fanatical. but doing so has a price to pay: the inability to discern between a qualified Guru and one who is not. This is a direct result of that.

[icy]

A misleading teacher is someone who is ruled by disturbing emotions, such as greed, attachment, anger, or naivety; who pretends to have qualities that he or she lacks; or who hides his or her actual shortcomings. Moreover, such a person has a weak sense of ethics, teaches only for personal gain, or gives incorrect information and instruction. Naive spiritual seekers may incorrectly consider some of the person's faults as assets or ascribe good qualities to the person that he or she lacks. Consequently, they build distorted relationships that are based on deception and lies.

Thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude is one of the ten fundamentally destructive actions described in Buddhism and constitutes a violation of one of the bodhisattva vows. It means to deny or repudiate what is true about someone or something, and entails planning to spread one's prejudiced opinion to others. Here, it refers to disciples' denying or repudiating the good qualities that their spiritual mentors actually have and planning to spread false information about the persons. The destructive way of thinking goes far beyond merely disbelieving in the good qualities that their mentors have.

Further, according to the Prasangika-Madhyamaka explanation, thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude may also include interpolating something false. Here, the destructive thinking would be for disciples to invent and project negative qualities onto their mentors that the teachers objectively lack.

Moreover, according to Tsongkhapa's Grand Exposition of the Graded Stages of the Path, the motivation behind thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude needs to include five further disturbing emotions and attitudes: (1) One needs to be stubbornly blind to the actual qualities of someone. (2) One needs to be contentious, from having a perverse sense of enjoying being negative. (3) One needs to be convinced of the distortion, based on incorrect consideration and analysis. (4) One needs to be mean, unwilling to accept that others have good qualities. (5) One needs to be headstrong in wishing to bring down the person, without the least bit of shame about it and without thinking it improper.

Distorted, antagonistic thinking about one's spiritual mentor, then, does not include all thought about his or her actual limitations or shortcomings. For disciples to think that their mentors are not fully enlightened beings who can speak every language in the world falls outside the sphere of this destructive way of thinking. So does thinking that the actual faults or mistakes of their mentors are in fact conventional faults and mistakes. Similarly, the destructive action does not include disciples' disagreeing with their traditional mentors' opinions that women lack the spiritual ability of men. Nor does it include deciding to keep a respectful distance from abusive spiritual mentors.

On the other hand, consider the case of disciples who dwell on their mentors' actual faults or mistakes and, with antagonistic attitudes, wish to publicize them. The way of thinking does not repudiate actual good qualities or invent fictitious negative ones. Thus, the mental act does not constitute distorted, antagonistic thinking. However, if any of the five disturbing emotions and attitudes that Tsongkhapa described accompany the thought, the act is negative and creates suffering.

[Ensapa]

A misleading teacher is someone who is ruled by disturbing emotions, such as greed, attachment, anger, or naivety; who pretends to have qualities that he or she lacks; or who hides his or her actual shortcomings. Moreover, such a person has a weak sense of ethics, teaches only for personal gain, or gives incorrect information and instruction. Naive spiritual seekers may incorrectly consider some of the person's faults as assets or ascribe good qualities to the person that he or she lacks. Consequently, they build distorted relationships that are based on deception and lies.
You're right. This is how "fake" teachers operate. Naive spiritual speakers tend to fall for the teacher's charisma and then allow that to cloud their judgement are plenty. The only way to avoid that is to do research and study beforehand. Would anyone invest stock in a company they know nothing about?

Thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude is one of the ten fundamentally destructive actions described in Buddhism and constitutes a violation of one of the bodhisattva vows. It means to deny or repudiate what is true about someone or something, and entails planning to spread one's prejudiced opinion to others. Here, it refers to disciples' denying or repudiating the good qualities that their spiritual mentors actually have and planning to spread false information about the persons. The destructive way of thinking goes far beyond merely disbelieving in the good qualities that their mentors have.
There are many people in the west who got hurt due to following an unqualified Guru, or due to their magnitude of their bad karma, gets involved with Dharma centers where people mistreat him or her.Then they come out and cry and whine. There are also cases where they meet a real Guru who break their ego, and they cannot take it, run away and then make negative statements about this Guru.

Further, according to the Prasangika-Madhyamaka explanation, thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude may also include interpolating something false. Here, the destructive thinking would be for disciples to invent and project negative qualities onto their mentors that the teachers objectively lack.
Sometimes, people are too deluded and their negative karma and habituations are too heavy and they tend to end up with conclusions like these.

Moreover, according to Tsongkhapa's Grand Exposition of the Graded Stages of the Path, the motivation behind thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude needs to include five further disturbing emotions and attitudes: (1) One needs to be stubbornly blind to the actual qualities of someone. (2) One needs to be contentious, from having a perverse sense of enjoying being negative. (3) One needs to be convinced of the distortion, based on incorrect consideration and analysis. (4) One needs to be mean, unwilling to accept that others have good qualities. (5) One needs to be headstrong in wishing to bring down the person, without the least bit of shame about it and without thinking it improper.


Distorted, antagonistic thinking about one's spiritual mentor, then, does not include all thought about his or her actual limitations or shortcomings. For disciples to think that their mentors are not fully enlightened beings who can speak every language in the world falls outside the sphere of this destructive way of thinking. So does thinking that the actual faults or mistakes of their mentors are in fact conventional faults and mistakes. Similarly, the destructive action does not include disciples' disagreeing with their traditional mentors' opinions that women lack the spiritual ability of men. Nor does it include deciding to keep a respectful distance from abusive spiritual mentors.

On the other hand, consider the case of disciples who dwell on their mentors' actual faults or mistakes and, with antagonistic attitudes, wish to publicize them. The way of thinking does not repudiate actual good qualities or invent fictitious negative ones. Thus, the mental act does not constitute distorted, antagonistic thinking. However, if any of the five disturbing emotions and attitudes that Tsongkhapa described accompany the thought, the act is negative and creates suffering.
Many blogs and websites that focuses on controversies and scandals and helping "former members" to "heal from the abuse" of their former Gurus and Dharma centers tend to also display that quality. Then it is safe to say that their act is nothing short of  negative karma, but they see it as a method to warn others from getting involved in something harmful but at the same time they do not refer to the classical and time-proven texts.

Very nice piece that you have there, complete with quotations. It is imperative that we study the basic texts such as the 50 verses of Guru devotion and the bodhisattva vows before they actually go ahead and study with a teacher. many people do not and they are only attracted to a teacher only for charisma and for whatever other motivations they have behind them. As a result, they get hurt and then talk bad about the teacher. This would not have happened if they grounded themselves with a sound foundation.

[rossoneri]

Well, i am not sure who's is the writer who wrote this article but i am there are some monks who are exploiting this teacher students relationship which meant to be pure and spiritual. There are going to be one rotten egg among the eggs, doesn't mean that with one bad egg the rest of them are. So may i advice beforehand one should have his or her teacher check before taking refuge with one particular Guru. This is a very important step and from this research we will find out or learn a lot from this Teacher. As most of the time we have this delusion in our mind to expect how a monk or Guru should behave or act, therefore we will talk bad about this person or Guru if it doesn't look like what we have we expected with our ignorant mind. So always remember to check your Guru first.

Dharma and spiritual learning not suppose to feed our ego and our teacher are not here to please us, so please do not expect our spiritual learning to be convenient for us. Don't expect someone else to transform in order to to suit us, we must transform ourself to suit others instead. This is true spiritual practice. 

[Ensapa]

Well, i am not sure who's is the writer who wrote this article but i am there are some monks who are exploiting this teacher students relationship which meant to be pure and spiritual. There are going to be one rotten egg among the eggs, doesn't mean that with one bad egg the rest of them are. So may i advice beforehand one should have his or her teacher check before taking refuge with one particular Guru. This is a very important step and from this research we will find out or learn a lot from this Teacher. As most of the time we have this delusion in our mind to expect how a monk or Guru should behave or act, therefore we will talk bad about this person or Guru if it doesn't look like what we have we expected with our ignorant mind. So always remember to check your Guru first.

Dharma and spiritual learning not suppose to feed our ego and our teacher are not here to please us, so please do not expect our spiritual learning to be convenient for us. Don't expect someone else to transform in order to to suit us, we must transform ourself to suit others instead. This is true spiritual practice.

Yeah you're right. It has also been mentioned very clearly in the 50 verses of Guru devotion to check out the teacher first before committing. But these days, people just want to go to a teacher with a big name instead. they prefer to go after a popular teacher as opposed to a truly qualified one. There are many resources that can help on this, like for example, Dangerous friend and the 50 verses of Guru devotion. The new age psychobabble and 'warnings' against cults and their own funny ideas of how Guru devotion should be is very confusing to people and will more often or not, mislead people. The criteria on how to choose a Guru is simple - find one that has the qualities aforementioned by the 50 verses of Guru devotion, and then find out if the Guru is there to stay so that we can get real training. Having a fly by Guru, or a Guru that just visits and then goes off somewhere else is beneficial but a lot less for the people who need serious training. Thats what i feel anyway. If there isnt a Guru, just move to a place with one, or stick to fly by Gurus.

sadly, many people these days have the problem of having a fragile ego due to their upbringing or materialistic environment and anything that challenges their sense of self will be viewed as evil or cultish. The reason why so many people with mental issues appear these days is because they cling on to their false sense of self too tightly and when this false sense of self gets debased by reality, their minds react in such a way that it becomes a mental disease. All of these can be cured with Guru devotion and a lama who is kind enough but it would be painful and challenging to actually 'start' the therapy. Sadly, at this time, if the Guru does not act in accordance with the student's expectations, he or she is labelled as a cultish Guru.

[Dorje Pakmo]

Our teachers need to hold clear boundaries around their emotional and physical behaviour so that it does not become harmful to students. What can be problematic for us as Western Tibetan Buddhists is that some Tibetan lamas may not understand what this means in the West. Within their own culture boundaries were often implicit in the world in which they lived, be it the monastery or the Tibetan culture. What we need to recognise is that once Tibetan lamas move to the West they are not always held within their own culture and so it is totally dependent upon their own integrity to have clear boundaries. Sadly this integrity is sometimes lacking and lamas can become a kind of law unto themselves creating their own culture with boundaries that are arbitrary or absent. This culture can become like a dysfunctional family where a lama becomes an all-powerful parent whose needs and wishes are paramount. Who then is going to provide the safe and trusting environment within which a Westerner can practice and grow?

The writer is saying that. I want a Guru, I want to learn from a Guru. But the Guru must be acting the way I want him/her to be, to teach according to my rules, only then will I learn from him/her. It is funny. Then it is simple, don’t have one! Why bother looking for a Guru when you want him to teach according to your rules? Yes, there may be fear that the Guru is a fake and may be exploitative. But it is one’s task and responsibility to check thoroughly first, especially one’s own feelings; are there some kind of connections?; are the Guru ‘s actions in accordance to what he/she teaches;  before devoting oneself fully to the Guru.

In the fifty verses of Guru Devotion, Verse 6 states,
- In order for the words of honour of neither the Guru nor the disciple to degenerate, there must be a mutual examination beforehand (to determine if each can brave a Guru-disciple relationship).

Right from the beginning, before one even decides to follow and devote fully to a Guru, it is extremely important to check him/her out first. It is the same for the Guru, whether he/she agree to take on the immense responsibilities to teach and to guide a disciple.  In the old Indian tradition, it is often that the Gurus are checked for a period of 12 years or more before a disciple fully entrust his/her spiritual guidance to the Guru.

As Sogyal Rinpoche warns in The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying:
“The West has become a heaven for spiritual charlatans. …
without the guidelines and criteria of a full-fledge wisdom culture,
the authenticity of so-called “Masters” is almost impossible to establish.”

This is exactly what the write feel. He/She do not trust the Guru, and believe that certain rules should be set for the Guru to abide. But how can the Guru teach if, he/she is constrained and bounded to a set of rules? In that case, the Dharma will degenerate further as it becomes something studied for the sake of studying. The Gurus will become like school or college lecturers. Then might as well not have a Guru, it is good enough to just go to seminars and Buddhist talks.

However, if one wishes to commit a 100% to Buddhism and to seek enlightenment, then IT IS ESSENTIAL for one to have a Guru and surrender fully to his/her teachings. Because only a true Guru can show us the true nature of our mind and knows exactly the perfect remedies to root out our negativities. It takes someone who knows his own mind fully to know another’s mind. Therefore, a Guru cannot be bounded by our limiting thoughts because then he/she will never be able to help us achieve our fullest potential.

[Positive Change]

There are always many interpretations of Guru Devotion especially in the West. Perhaps it is based on a culture that has always revered their masters as "divine" or at least close to "divine". This cultural rift has created a lot of different views on this student/diciple-teacher/master relationship "phenomenon".

Fear of "A Breach of Guru-Devotion"
Almost every classical text on the student/diciple-teacher/master relationship includes a section on the hellish suffering that follows from what is usually translated as "a breach of guru-devotion." The material derives mostly from Ashvaghosha's vivid description of the horrors, which in turn summarizes some passages from the tantras. Although the point pertains specifically to relationships with tantric masters, most Tibetan authors take it to have a shared meaning that applies to relationships with sutra masters as well.

Studying this teaching causes many Westerners to inject a devastating element of fear into their relationships with their spiritual teachers. Fear of hell easily leads to a cult mentality and may open them to abuse from unscrupulous teachers. They become afraid to protest against improper behavior or to leave their teachers upon fear of burning in hell. To avoid this type of unhealthy relationship, they need to investigate the teaching carefully.

First, they need to know exactly which types of attitude and behavior the texts describe as leading to hell. Otherwise, if the translation term guru-devotion has already misled them, the dubious phrase "a breach of guru-devotion" may have confused them even further. Then, they need to understand the Buddhist concept of hell. Lastly, they need to appreciate the psychological implication of fear within a Western cultural setting.

Self-Destructive Actions regarding a Spiritual Mentor
Disastrous self-destructive actions regarding a spiritual teacher fall into three categories:

(1) Building a student/diciple-teacher/master relationship with a misleading teacher.
(2) Disbelieving the good qualities that one's mentor actually has, and thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude about them.
(3) Relating distortedly to one's properly qualified mentor.

Relating distortedly means being in violation of the first root tantric vow: to avoid scorning or deriding one's tantric master. It also includes violating either of the first two tantric vows outlined in The Kalachakra Tantra: disturbing the mind of one's tantric master or transgressing an instruction that he or she has given.

In the context of a breach of guru-devotion, both thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude and relating distortedly refer to changes in disciples' manners of relating to their qualified mentors after establishing healthy disciple-mentor relationships with them. The two do not refer to disciples' thinking or acting hostilely toward spiritual mentors who are not their mentors, nor to other peoples' thinking or acting hostilely towards the disciples' mentors – although hostile thought or behavior directed by any person toward another is, of course, destructive. Both the agent and the object of a breach of guru-devotion are specific.

Further, a misleading teacher is someone who is ruled by disturbing emotions, such as greed, attachment, anger, or naivety; who pretends to have qualities that he or she lacks; or who hides his or her actual shortcomings. Moreover, such a person has a weak sense of ethics, teaches only for personal gain, or gives incorrect information and instruction. Naive spiritual seekers may incorrectly consider some of the person's faults as assets or ascribe good qualities to the person that he or she lacks. Consequently, they build distorted relationships that are based on deception and lies.

Thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude is one of the ten fundamentally destructive actions described in Buddhism and constitutes a violation of one of the bodhisattva vows. It means to deny or repudiate what is true about someone or something, and entails planning to spread one's prejudiced opinion to others. Here, it refers to disciples' denying or repudiating the good qualities that their spiritual mentors actually have and planning to spread false information about the persons. The destructive way of thinking goes far beyond merely disbelieving in the good qualities that their mentors have.

Further, according to the Prasangika-Madhyamaka explanation, thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude may also include interpolating something false. Here, the destructive thinking would be for disciples to invent and project negative qualities onto their mentors that the teachers objectively lack.

Moreover, according to Tsongkhapa's Grand Exposition of the Graded Stages of the Path, the motivation behind thinking with a distorted, antagonistic attitude needs to include five further disturbing emotions and attitudes:

(1) One needs to be stubbornly blind to the actual qualities of someone.
(2) One needs to be contentious, from having a perverse sense of enjoying being negative.
(3) One needs to be convinced of the distortion, based on incorrect consideration and analysis.
(4) One needs to be mean, unwilling to accept that others have good qualities.
(5) One needs to be headstrong in wishing to bring down the person, without the least bit of shame about it and without thinking it improper.

Distorted, antagonistic thinking about one's spiritual mentor, then, does not include all thought about his or her actual limitations or shortcomings. For disciples to think that their mentors are not fully enlightened beings who can speak every language in the world falls outside the sphere of this destructive way of thinking. So does thinking that the actual faults or mistakes of their mentors are in fact conventional faults and mistakes. Similarly, the destructive action does not include disciples' disagreeing with their traditional mentors' opinions that women lack the spiritual ability of men. Nor does it include deciding to keep a respectful distance from abusive spiritual mentors.

On the other hand, consider the case of disciples who dwell on their mentors' actual faults or mistakes and, with antagonistic attitudes, wish to publicize them. The way of thinking does not repudiate actual good qualities or invent fictitious negative ones. Thus, the mental act does not constitute distorted, antagonistic thinking. However, if any of the five disturbing emotions and attitudes that Tsongkhapa described accompany the thought, the act is negative and creates suffering.

[Barzin]

This is often that kind of information out there disturb people's mind.  And the person is not even writing from a student point of view which he or she does not understand the true core of guru disciple in Buddhism.  what he or she said might not be entire wrong either, he/she might have people around him/her have had bad experiences with a guru if i may say.  This is that kind of issues that make Buddhism degenerate...  Just like myself, I used to be very skeptical about monks...  In my country, there are monks in robes, on the street begging for money... Yes, monks do beg but not only for money!  In fact, they will give you a dirty look when you don't give.

Of course, these are just the lower quality of fake Buddhists or sangha members but of course they are also the higher qualities one who go around and cheat.  But these fake buddhists do not represent the whole of Buddhism, we should always no respect a person in robe regardless he is fake or not because we recognize the quality of the robe.  Bottom line is fake or not, we should always check out the potential guru for a period of time before we risk a guru disciple relationship.

[Ensapa]

This is often that kind of information out there disturb people's mind.  And the person is not even writing from a student point of view which he or she does not understand the true core of guru disciple in Buddhism.  what he or she said might not be entire wrong either, he/she might have people around him/her have had bad experiences with a guru if i may say.  This is that kind of issues that make Buddhism degenerate...  Just like myself, I used to be very skeptical about monks...  In my country, there are monks in robes, on the street begging for money... Yes, monks do beg but not only for money!  In fact, they will give you a dirty look when you don't give.
We have to understand that the concept of the Guru breaking the ego of the student can be quite shocking for those who are raised in the western culture where they are taught that their ego is the most important thing that they ever have. Even the commercials and movies that are played everyday reinforce that. this does not include the popular mainstream psychological view of what the ego is. It could be very traumatising for the unprepared student and thus, reactions like these arise as a result. i wouldnt say it is right, but i would say that it is the result of lack of understanding and acceptance of what did they get themselves into.

Of course, these are just the lower quality of fake Buddhists or sangha members but of course they are also the higher qualities one who go around and cheat.  But these fake buddhists do not represent the whole of Buddhism, we should always no respect a person in robe regardless he is fake or not because we recognize the quality of the robe.  Bottom line is fake or not, we should always check out the potential guru for a period of time before we risk a guru disciple relationship.
There are definitely fake masters around that cheat and take advantage of people around here, but being bitter about the whole experience and encouraging others to be bitter about it will not help anyone either. it just makes things worse. A real teacher would induce real healing minus the bitterness, such as Lama Zopa effectively when these victims seek a qualified master, but otherwise, it becomes more like a case of the blind leading the blind.

Shockingly enough, the said person is the disciple of Geshe Ratben, the teachers of a number of western students, including Helmut Gassner, Stephen Bachelor, Schettini and a few others. It is quite shocking to read material from someone who claims to have studied under such an esteemed master, but i guess there are many different levels of practitioners out there, but one thing for sure, advice like these can be very misleading.

[yontenjamyang]

Is is within the 50 stanzas of devotion to the Guru and I quote:

Verse 6;

In order for the words of honor of neither the Guru nor the disciple to degenerate, there must be a mutual examination beforehand (to determine if each can) brave a Guru-disciple relationship.

At tantric empowerments many sets of vows are taken never to abandon the practices and procedures essential for spiritual progress. The disciple pledges his word of honor never to transgress these vows, such as always to visualize his Guru as inseparable from the meditational deity into whose practice he has just been initiated. Such deities, as well as the Gurus, share the same Enlightened nature as all the Buddhas, differing only in the physical aspect they manifest.
The Guru, too, has previously pledged his word of honor never to disclose the tantric secrets to those who are unable to understand and keep them. Just as the milk of a lion should not be kept in a clay pot, so the profound and powerful methods of the tantra should not be entrusted to those who are not ready. If, having taken such vows, either the Guru or disciple should allow his word of honor to degenerate, it will be impossible for either to attain any of his goals and very serious unfortunate consequences will follow for both. Therefore it is extremely important for there to be a mutual examination between the Guru and disciple before they enter a formal relationship.
In ancient times in order to receive an empowerment a potential disciple would have to ask over a period of three years. An initiation was not at all something casual. By making the disciple wait so long, a Guru impressed on him the seriousness of entering the tantric path, tested his commitment and ensured that he was properly prepared. Often a Guru would make a disciple wait even longer before agreeing to teach him anything. He would repeatedly test his character and only when he had understood him well would he accept him as his disciple.
The disciple also must test his potential Guru and determine if he is fully qualified. He must be confident that he will be able to devote himself fully to this Master. Before entering a formal Guru-disciple relationship, you have complete freedom of choice. But once such a bond has been established, these teachings on Guru-devotion must be followed with total commitment.


Verse 7
A disciple with sense should not accept as his Guru someone who lacks compassion or who is angersome, vicious or arrogant, possessive, undisciplined or boasts of his knowledge.
Verse 8
(A Guru should be) stable (in his actions), cultivated (in his speech), wise, patient and honest. He should neither conceal his short-comings not pretend to possess qualities he lacks. He should be an expert in the meanings (of the tantra) and in its ritual procedures (of medicine and turning back obstacles). Also he should have loving compassion and a complete knowledge of the scriptures.

Verse 9
He should have full expertise in both ten fields, skill in the drawing of mandalas, full knowledge of how to explain the tantra, supreme pure faith and his senses fully under control.

In general a Mahayana Guru should have the following ten qualities: (1) discipline as a result of his mastery of the training in the higher discipline of moral self-control, (2) mental quiescence from his training in higher concentration, (3) pacification of all delusions and obstacles form his training in higher wisdom, (4) more knowledge than his disciple in the subject to be taught, (5) enthusiastic perseverance and joy in teaching, (6) a treasure of scriptural knowledge, (7) insight into and an understanding of Voidness, (8 ) skill in presenting the teachings, (9) great compassion and (10) no reluctance to teach and work for his disciples regardless of their level of intelligence.
A Tantric Master must have even more good qualities, as listed in the text. Most important is that he be an extremely stable person, with his body, speech and mind totally under control.
There are two set of ten fields in which the Guru must be a complete master. The ten inner ones are essential for teaching the yoga and anuttarayoga classes of tantra, which stress the importance of purifying mainly internal mental activities. These are expertise in (1) visualizing wheels of protection and eliminating obstacles, (2) preparing and consecrating protection knots and amulets to be worn around the neck, (3) conferring the vase and secret empowerments, planting the seeds for attaining a Buddha’s Form Bodies, (4) conferring the wisdom and word empowerments, planting the seeds for attaining a Buddha’s Wisdom Bodies, (5) separating
the enemies for Dharma from their own protectors, (6) making offerings, such as sculptured tormas, (7) reciting mantras, both verbally and mentally, that is visualizing them revolving around his heart, (8 ) performing wrathful ritual procedures for forcefully catching the attention of the meditational deities and protectors, (9) consecrating images and statues and (10) making mandala offerings, performing the meditational practices (sadhana) and taking self-initiations.
The ten external qualities are required for teaching the kriya and carya classes of tantra, which stress the importance of purifying mainly external activities in connection with internal mental processes. These are expertise in (1) drawing, constructing and visualizing the mandala abodes of the meditational deities, (2) maintaining the different states of single-minded concentration (samadhi), (3) executing the hand gestures (mudras), (4) performing the ritual dances, (5) sitting in the full meditational position, (6) reciting what is appropriate to these two classes of tantra, (7) making fire offerings, (8 ) making the various other offerings, (9) performing the rituals of (a) pacification of disputes, famine and disease, (b) increase of life span, knowledge and wealth, (c) power to influence others and (d) wrathful elimination of demonic forces and interferences, and (10) invoking meditational deities and dissolving them back into their appropriate places.
It is not sufficient for a Tantric Master merely to know how to perform the superficial actions of these above rituals. He must actually be able to do them. For instance, when consecrating an image of a meditational deity, he must be able to invoke the actual deity and place it in the image, not merely recite the words of the accompanying text. If you take as your Guru a Master with all these qualifications and powers, and he accepts you as his disciple, you must devote yourself fully to him. Although it is possible that out of delusion you might disagree with your Guru, never show him disrespect or despise him from the depth of your heart.

Verses, 7, 8 and 9 clearly states the quality that the disciple needs to check if the Guru has. If the potential disciple cannot see these quality it doesn't mean the potential Guru don't have it. If the disciple do not understand why the Guru needs these quality then then the disciple really need to study to find out why.

Clearly, both the Guru and the disciple must check each other out if the relationship is beneficial to the disciple.

It is because the disciple has not understood the reasons and the consequences of it that these issues of boundaries arise. It is a sign that the author do not understand Guru Devotion.

Verse 24

(A disciple) having great sense should obey the words of his Guru joyfully and with enthusiasm. If you lack the knowledge or ability (to do what he says), explain in (polite) words why you cannot (comply).


This does not mean that you should become a mindless slave or that your Guru can take undue advantage of you. As you are aiming for the complete freedom of Enlightenment, there must also be freedom in the means of attaining it. You should never follow your Guru’s wishes simply because you feel obligated or forced to obey.Rather try to understand his intentions and aim. Your Guru will only tell you to do what is beneficial for yourself and others. What he asks may be difficult and its immediate purpose may not be obvious, but you should receive his advice joyfully and with deep gratitude for his concern with your welfare.
Examine yourself honestly to see if you can follow his wishes. If there is no way in which you can comply, do not be rude or arrogant. Explain politely and with extreme humility what the difficulty is. Your Guru will not be unreasonable; as a Buddha he is filled with great compassion.
If, however, you can avoid transgressing his advice, this is best. Following the spiritual path as he directs, you can attain not only the ordinary powerful attainments (siddhi) of extra-physical and mental powers common to non-Buddhists, but depending on your motivation, a higher rebirth, the happiness of Liberation or the supreme powerful attainment of Buddhahood.

Verse 48

After a disciple has taken refuge in the Triple Gem and developed a pure (Enlightened motive), he should be given this (text) to take to his heart (how to abandon his own arrogant self-will and) follow in his Guru’s footsteps (along the Graded Path to Enlightenment).

Verse 48 clearly states that Guru Devotion is practice in order to abandon the disciple's own arrogant self-will and follow the teacher along the path to Enlightenment.

My personal experience is that the Guru only want us to have one basic quality. That is sincerity. Be honest and do as we promised. If we cannot comply, then we need to be sincere and be honest to the Guru. He will have his methods. If we are truly sincere, the Guru will be patient. We will succeed.

[Big Uncle]

I found this really ridiculous article on Guru devotion and the clause...

Recognising boundaries

Possibly the most critical issue that arises in relationship to the guru is the potential for a loss of appropriate boundaries. As a psychotherapist there is consistent emphasis on the understanding of how teachers and therapists need to be clear of their ethical boundaries, especially because of the power imbalance in the relationship. When we consider the power we often give away to our gurus the assumption we make is that they will be skilful with us and not be abusive or exploitative. Unfortunately this is often misunderstood by both teachers and students. Boundaries imply a teacher or guru will respect the needs and vulnerabilities of a student and not take advantage of them for his own needs. This can be materially, economically, emotionally or sexually. Materially it is very easy for teachers to exploit the devoted student who wishes to practice generosity towards them and so provide money, material goods, a home, work, and so on out of devotion. Gurus can get very rich on the offerings of their disciples and in Tibet the estates of the highly revered Tulkus where often extremely wealthy and powerful.

Emotionally there can be a tendency for some gurus to actually feed on the devotion of their students. It can nourish a narcissistic need for love and to be seen as special that has been there since childhood. Possibly the worst form of exploitation is the sexual abuse of female students to satisfy a need of the teacher. It is this, which is the most blatant form of abuse of boundary and power and can often be dismissed or denied within the context of a dysfunctional community of disciples.

For a relationship between a teacher or guru and student to be healthy psychologically and emotionally ethical boundaries must be clear. I have seen in my work as a therapist and mentor that students who have experienced a teacher’s confused or loose boundaries suffer greatly. Students may then find they have no one within their community to speak to about it because there is a taboo against criticizing the guru. They may find that their community does not really want to know. The result is that the very heart of their spirituality has been betrayed.

Our teachers need to hold clear boundaries around their emotional and physical behaviour so that it does not become harmful to students. What can be problematic for us as Western Tibetan Buddhists is that some Tibetan lamas may not understand what this means in the West. Within their own culture boundaries were often implicit in the world in which they lived, be it the monastery or the Tibetan culture. What we need to recognise is that once Tibetan lamas move to the West they are not always held within their own culture and so it is totally dependent upon their own integrity to have clear boundaries. Sadly this integrity is sometimes lacking and lamas can become a kind of law unto themselves creating their own culture with boundaries that are arbitrary or absent. This culture can become like a dysfunctional family where a lama becomes an all-powerful parent whose needs and wishes are paramount. Who then is going to provide the safe and trusting environment within which a Westerner can practice and grow?

http://www.mudra.co.uk/mudra_devotion.html

If Tilopa respected Naropa's boundaries as a prince, I dont think Naropa could have attained enlightenment. If Marpa respected Milarepa's boundaries as a man, I dont think he would be able to purify his negative karma either and attain enlightenment. So what boundaries is this person talking about? Dont you just love it when people start to interpret teachings in accordance with their comfort zones? To me, it just sounds funny and ridiculous no matter how you want to see it. What do you guys think about Guru devotion in this way?

This is interesting and I think that it would be the Guru's skillfulness to break these boundaries. We all understand that the boundaries are really illusory and made up by our man-made beliefs, limitations and culture. Therefore, it would be up to how much the student surrenders to the Guru and how much the student surrenders would depend on the teachings he/she absorbs and the skillfulness of the Guru that present these teachings.

Hence, for those new to the Dharma, the Guru will present teachings that would suit his mind and gradually introduce higher teachings to break his illusions (boundaries and limitations). The speed for this to happen would depend entirely upon the student's understanding, application and merit that he has amassed. Sometimes, the student may have performed a lot of practices but has seemingly little or no results is due to the fact that the student performed those practices with the wrong motivation. The only way to alter motivation would be to increase our knowledge so we are equipped with all the tools necessary to curtail our ego.

[Ensapa]

This is interesting and I think that it would be the Guru's skillfulness to break these boundaries. We all understand that the boundaries are really illusory and made up by our man-made beliefs, limitations and culture. Therefore, it would be up to how much the student surrenders to the Guru and how much the student surrenders would depend on the teachings he/she absorbs and the skillfulness of the Guru that present these teachings.
Apparently, not these guys. They are attached to their boundaries and they view them as very important because western psychology sees them as such. It is also a method that they often use to deal with abuse and to deal with unwanted advances. However, they forget that the whole point of a teacher is to break that boundary and many of them are shocked when that happens till they react negatively to it.

Hence, for those new to the Dharma, the Guru will present teachings that would suit his mind and gradually introduce higher teachings to break his illusions (boundaries and limitations). The speed for this to happen would depend entirely upon the student's understanding, application and merit that he has amassed. Sometimes, the student may have performed a lot of practices but has seemingly little or no results is due to the fact that the student performed those practices with the wrong motivation. The only way to alter motivation would be to increase our knowledge so we are equipped with all the tools necessary to curtail our ego.
Sometimes, even if a teacher slowly introduces this to a student, due to so many years of habituation from society and from people around, they still think that the teacher breaking their ego is a bad thing. As a result, they react to this negatively and start calling the Guru fake and get very upset about the whole scenario. This problem only happens in the west, where psychologists glorify the ego and make it sound like it is a very important thing and thus emphasises on boundaries.

Sometimes, following the Guru's instruction alone can help gather vast amounts of merit as it is something that is done directly to break the ego. Challenging or opposing that step means that we love ourselves more than our Guru, but the wrong way and therefore creates more suffering for ourselves in the long run. Naropa transgressed his Guru's advice just once, by debating with the tirtikas when Tilopa specifically told him not to, and he was unable to attain the illusory body and had to rely on clear light at the time of death. In other words he could not gain enlightenment during his lifetime, but only during his death. What about us then if we challenge our teachers?

[dsiluvu]

I think the person who wrote this definitely is writing from a perspective of a therapist that have clients who are obviously Buddhist students who went to him/her to complain about their situation. Obviously his professional opinion is not very professional because he/she has not investigate further and hear the other side of the story - the Guru's.

Perhaps the clients that sees him are having real issues with fake Gurus who exploited them, however it is only fair and logically not to assume but to hear the other side before making such strong judgements. On the other hand the student who is experiencing these issues tells me this student clearly did not check his/her Guru out before entering the Guru - Disciple relationship and probably jumped in to one with huge expectations... this is quite common these days. Hack I've even heard some have taken tantric initiations yet they don't know Boddhisattva vows?! Like how can this be? What's going on??? Yet the student don't bother asking and finding out more, they just wait and expect the answers to come to them, delivered on a silver platter perhaps?

Most modern students these days enter the Dharma in hopes to either escape from their problems... they say they just want to find peace and an easier life... and they want the shortest cut possible, quickest results without much effort from their part. These are the type of students who when the Guru challenges and push them beyond their "comfort zones" they flip out and go see a therapist and the therapist happily cash in on their complains and make assumptions like this article. This is sad for it can affect other potential student's spiritual path as well.

So moral of the story is, read 50 versus first before you jump in a choose your spiritual guide, check out your spiritual guide first before sealing a relationship. Once you have made your decision... stick with it cos you have checked and it is beyond the checking out stage now. It is like selecting a good doctor to do plastic surgery on you... wouldn't you check the doctor, clinic, his results, credentials etc etc out thoroughly first? You would, so what more a spiritual guide who is meant to be your Guru until you reach enlightenment?