Author Topic: The Dalai Lama Leads Talks On Science and Buddhism ~ Another contradiction!  (Read 6955 times)

Galen

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http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/international/2739-his-holiness-the-dalai-lama-leads-talks-on-science-and-buddhism

Tuesday, 31 July 2012 14:01    YC. Dhardhowa, The Tibet Post International 

Leh, Ladakh, J&K, India: - The spiritual leader of Tibet, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama arrived in Ladak on July 18 for a 20-day visit to the region, during which he is scheduled to Zanskar, Durbuk and other places in J&K, India. During last couple of weeks, His Holiness met with hundreds of top and senior officials of J&K, religious heads of the region, MLCs, students and staff of schools and other dignitaries.
On 27 July, 2012, during a talk to students and staff of Lamdon Model School in Leh, the capital of Ladakh, His Holiness stressed the need to take a holistic approach to education. Modern education is very good at developing the brain but this should not be at the expense of traditional values that are important for developing a good heart.

He also commended the use of traditional dialectical debate and reasoning, not only in the study of religion, but also in the study of science and other modern topics. He explained the necessity of examining what you learn from teachers or read in books carefully and repeatedly in a logical way that really deepens and reinforces your understanding.

His Holiness went on to say, "Of course education is essential for Buddhists too. The proper way to practise the Buddha's teaching is to investigate reality. We must make fullest use of our human intelligence, and in that context, a scientific approach, which is primarily concerned with examining the external world, is helpful. However, the Buddhist approach does not rely on external instruments, but employs the human mind to investigate reality through concentration and analytical meditation."

His Holiness referred to the dialogues he has engaged in with contemporary western scientists for more than thirty years. As a consequence a number of scientists have begun to take an interest in the workings of the mind and emotions, which are explained in great detail in the works of the great India masters of the Nalanda tradition, such as Nagarjuna.

At the Lamdon school, he concluded by expressing the hope that in the remaining 80 years or so of the 21st century students from Lamdon Model School will make a significant contribution to the cause of peace and happiness in Ladakh, India and the world at large.

On 26 July, 2012, His Holiness gave a short talk to about 300, mostly people who are from Ladakh. He stressed the importance of relating to other people on a basic human level, considering other people to be human beings like ourselves, with the same kind of positive and negative emotions.

His Holiness said that placing too much emphasis on secondary attributes like race, faith, social status, nationality and so on is a cause of division amongst human beings. Both religion and contemporary science recognize that destructive emotions cause us suffering, while positive emotions bring us happiness. And as human beings we have a marvellous intelligence that enables us to differentiate between them so we can cultivate our positive emotions and reduce our negative emotions.


His Holiness praised over the traditional logic and debate at the Jamyang school in Leh from class five onwards. "Because it helps us sharpen our intelligence and develop a more penetrative understanding of whatever we are studying," he told students and staff.

"Wisdom and intelligence don't come about merely by reciting Manjushri's mantra and other prayers, although they may help. Real wisdom and understanding comes about through study and analysis of what you have learned from teachers or read in books. And you will deepen your understanding by thinking it over again and again, and examining it with reason."

His Holiness also pointed out that happiness does not come from money, power and social status alone. He said, "the ultimate source of happiness is here," as he touched his heart. Our sense of caring for the well-being and happiness of others hinges on our being able to cultivate peace of mind within ourselves.

His Holiness is going to Padum, Zanskar 29th - 31st July, where he will teach the Thirty-seven Practices of a Bodhisattva and the Eight Verses for Training the Mind.

________

The Dalai Lama again contradicts himself on religious freedom. Here (bolded in red), he states that it is important to relate to people on a basic human level and to consider other people as human beings same as us. Isn't this a shooting himself in the foot when he totally bans a whole section of the Tibetan community from practicing a Dorje Shugden. How is this treating other human beings as equal? Considering that all people have positive and negative emotions. How is banning someone from practicing his preferred Buddhist practice a positive emotion?

Also, the HHDL says that putting too much emphasis on faith will cause division division among human beings. This is very apparent and the HHDL has done it perfectly, causing the Tibetan community to split and discriminate against each other. These are the destructive emotions the Dalai Lama mentioned above. Does he not recognise this?

Till today, the Dalai Lama still contradicts himself by saying one thing and enforcing the ban on Dorje Shugden. When will he stop?

vajratruth

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The Dalai Lama like many in his anti-Shugden camp keeps making statements that contradict His Holiness actions vis-a-vis the Dorje Shugden ban. We can totally exhaust ourselves trying to work out his motives and reasons and still not know for sure his purpose for making public statements of peace and acceptance that are obviously inconsistent with his policy of intolerance and persecution towards Shugden practitioners.

An interesting question is why the international community never picks HHDL up on the Shugden issue. Surely, by now anyone who Googles the Dalai Lama would be aware of how HH is continuing in his efforts to obliterate the lives of so many Shugden practitioners and in the process create such a deep fracture within the Tibetan Buddhist Community. The Shugden Controversy is stated in Wikipedia, under "Dalai Lama" although it only afforded 4 measly lines on the affair, in the main article.

The Dalai Lama gets away with this injustice because in the final analysis, the non-Buddhist world do not understand the impact of the ban enough to care, or perhaps there is more value in aligning with the Dalai Lama's image of the holy man of international peace and understanding. And the non Tibetan Buddhist Community do not see it as their business to get involved in Tibetan Buddhist affairs. So little attention is paid towards the Dorje Shugden affair outside the circle of practitioners.  So HHDL gets away with blue murder in the meantime.

This Forum and Dorje Shugden site is probably the only active entity that is telling the world exactly what is going on and it is crucial that news of Dorje Shugden find their way into mainstream media, and beyond the Buddhist community.

diamond girl

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When we are pro-Shugden, does it mean we are anti-HHDL? If this is the case, which sometimes I get that sentiment here on this forum, how are we different from anti-shugden people?

This website is to provide ample information for people to make an informed choice. However, I do feel that we get too anti-HHDL. For example this article on The Tibet Post, when I read the article objectively, is good what HHDL is doing and what he is telling the people and especially the students. It is inspiring.

My point here is that HHDL is still the spiritual leader in Buddhism and his teachings still resonate with many millions of people. And perhaps to some, their peace is simply from HHDL's teachings and in Buddhism. So, why should we nullify this goodness for these people in Ladakh by tying in the anti-DS matter?

I do not mean any disrespect to your views here, I am just raising a view I have which sometimes makes me think more.

vajratruth

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When we are pro-Shugden, does it mean we are anti-HHDL? If this is the case, which sometimes I get that sentiment here on this forum, how are we different from anti-shugden people?

Dear DD, no, being pro-Shugden does not necessarily mean I am anti-HHDL. If anything I am very pro the Ban being lifted and the truth I know for certain about Dorje Shugden, being told. For now the Ban stands in the way of a huge multitude of people coming to know a great Protector whom the world badly needs in this age.

How are Shugden practitioners different from anti-Shugden people? The answer is obvious. Shugden practitioners do not go around telling lies about Buddhas and referring to enlightened beings as "evil spirits". Shugden practitioners do not persecute Buddhists or anyone else who disagree with them. In fact they are the true upholders of the Dharma. Shugden practitioners do not embark on a systematic programme to force practitioners to swear an oath which essentially cause students of the dharma to breaking their samaya with their Gurus. Shugden practitioners do not storm monasteries and tear down holy statues of Buddhas and boot those who do not acquiesce to their views, out of their homes and towns. Shugden practitioners are the true sons of Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, and the true upholders of the Je Tsongkhapa's teachings.     


This website is to provide ample information for people to make an informed choice. However, I do feel that we get too anti-HHDL. For example this article on The Tibet Post, when I read the article objectively, is good what HHDL is doing and what he is telling the people and especially the students. It is inspiring.

I agree with everything the Dalai Lama has said in public. My ardent wish is for what is being preached, which applies to people of all religion, to also apply to practitioners of Dorje Shugden. And thank goodness for this site, without which the anti-Shugden people would be doing romper-stompers all over town. I note that this site is not anti-HHDL nor am I. But I cannot reconcile what is being said by HHDL about "the importance of relating to other people on a basic human level, considering other people to be human beings like ourselves" with the grave effect on human beings as the result of HHDL's ban

My point here is that HHDL is still the spiritual leader in Buddhism and his teachings still resonate with many millions of people. And perhaps to some, their peace is simply from HHDL's teachings and in Buddhism. So, why should we nullify this goodness for these people in Ladakh by tying in the anti-DS matter?

That being the case, should we not to shatter the "peace" of those who still believe that happiness comes from the pursuit of worldly goals, by not sharing the dharma with them? Should we spare the "peace"of those who have not heard the dharma by not telling them that most of us, by being ignorant, by being deluded and giving way to our anger, are heading to the lower realms?

Yes, HHDL is the spiritual leader in Buddhism and I accept and welcome that. One of my favourites prayers is that written by HH for Dorje Shugden in which HH refers to Dorje Shugden as the "Miraculously powerful protector of Manjusri Tsongkhapa's Teachings". And I long for the day the spiritual leader of Buddhism affirms that of Dorje Shugden again and lift the Ban.


I do not mean any disrespect to your views here, I am just raising a view I have which sometimes makes me think more.

No offense taken and neither do I mean any disrespect to His Holiness The Dalai Lama, whom I view as the holy emanation of the Avalokiteshvara and I pray for wisdom to see and appreciate his Bigger Picture. Nevertheless in the meantime, I intend to continue to be yet another voice to speak for those Shugden practitioners who suffer in silence.

brian

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I will sincerely hope that The Dalai Lama to come to the decision to uplift the ban that has caused so so much sufferings and trouble to the Dorje Shugden practice. As years go by, we are still seeing some contradiction statements made by His Holiness and the CTA government. It can make more sense if a more concrete reason being mentioned re the ban on practice of Dorje Shugden. People (Shugden practitioners that is) who are innocent here for all the sufferings that they were facing. I can't wait for the day of the announcement of uplifting the ban on the Dorje Shugden practice.

Galen

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When we are pro-Shugden, does it mean we are anti-HHDL? If this is the case, which sometimes I get that sentiment here on this forum, how are we different from anti-shugden people?

This website is to provide ample information for people to make an informed choice. However, I do feel that we get too anti-HHDL. For example this article on The Tibet Post, when I read the article objectively, is good what HHDL is doing and what he is telling the people and especially the students. It is inspiring.

My point here is that HHDL is still the spiritual leader in Buddhism and his teachings still resonate with many millions of people. And perhaps to some, their peace is simply from HHDL's teachings and in Buddhism. So, why should we nullify this goodness for these people in Ladakh by tying in the anti-DS matter?

I do not mean any disrespect to your views here, I am just raising a view I have which sometimes makes me think more.

Dear DD,
No doubt that the Dalai Lama is an inspiring figure in the World Buddhist community and he is still very respected by majority. He is still spreading Buddhism like wild fire especially with his recent trip to Europe. And we commend him for his efforts.

What we are discussing here is that with the Dalai Lama going out to promote religious freedom and that everyone should have equal ground as we are all human beings that have the same emotional behavior, he does not address the section of his own community who he discriminates because of their practice of Dorje Shugden. Does it mean that Shugden-pas are not human beings who has emotions? So, we are saying that he is inconsistent in his words.

Don't you think so?



diamond girl

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Dear Vajratruth and Galen,

Thank you for both your replies to my post. I appreciate it greatly and do understand that pro-shugden are not anti-HHDL. I agree that HHDL should be consistent and not leave out the Shugden practitioners when he preaches peace and equality. I was not disagreeing on this. And I completely understand that this website is to provide ample information including highlighting the Ban enforced by CTA and HHDL.

I have read many posts on this forum and articles in this website. I have also read on HHDL on other news too. And I admire the work done here on this website. Like Vajratruth, I want so much for this Ban to be lifted and more so to be lifted by HHDL himself while he is still alive.


Ensapa

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When we are pro-Shugden, does it mean we are anti-HHDL? If this is the case, which sometimes I get that sentiment here on this forum, how are we different from anti-shugden people?
If we do that then we are no different than the anti Shugden crusaders who dont even know what they are doing or are against. It's 2 polarizing sides, 2 sides of the same coin. We should not stoop down to that level and do something like that and always remember Trijang Rinpoche's advice on this matter.

This website is to provide ample information for people to make an informed choice. However, I do feel that we get too anti-HHDL. For example this article on The Tibet Post, when I read the article objectively, is good what HHDL is doing and what he is telling the people and especially the students. It is inspiring.
It is the way how the Dalai Lama wishes for all of his followers to be: scientific and have a logical basis for everything as opposed to believing in things blindly. It is also a subtle wake up call for the CTA to change and not stay behind. It is a call to Tibetans to step up and be more scientific and progressive. I hope that the Tibetans take the hint.

My point here is that HHDL is still the spiritual leader in Buddhism and his teachings still resonate with many millions of people. And perhaps to some, their peace is simply from HHDL's teachings and in Buddhism. So, why should we nullify this goodness for these people in Ladakh by tying in the anti-DS matter?
I agree. Why should we ignore all the good that the Dalai Lama has done just because he banned Dorje Shugden? That would a bit too extreme, would it not be?

I do not mean any disrespect to your views here, I am just raising a view I have which sometimes makes me think more.

I really like what diamond girl had said here as it echoes with my sentiments as well on this issue. I personally find it pointless to campaign against the Dalai Lama as to weaken his credibility, but it would be a good idea to challenge his ideas and his points about Dorje Shugden instead. I dont mean to say this to offend anyone, but perhaps we should all look back at Trijang Rinpoche's advice to support the Dalai Lama all the way instead of going against him even with the ban going on. Dorje Shugden himself has repeated this point during trances many times as well.

harrynephew

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When we are pro-Shugden, does it mean we are anti-HHDL? If this is the case, which sometimes I get that sentiment here on this forum, how are we different from anti-shugden people?

This website is to provide ample information for people to make an informed choice. However, I do feel that we get too anti-HHDL. For example this article on The Tibet Post, when I read the article objectively, is good what HHDL is doing and what he is telling the people and especially the students. It is inspiring.

My point here is that HHDL is still the spiritual leader in Buddhism and his teachings still resonate with many millions of people. And perhaps to some, their peace is simply from HHDL's teachings and in Buddhism. So, why should we nullify this goodness for these people in Ladakh by tying in the anti-DS matter?

I do not mean any disrespect to your views here, I am just raising a view I have which sometimes makes me think more.


There has been always debate over the centuries to who's view is right or wrong and to even if God existed or not. I recently watched a video of a girl on youtube who spoke up about Stephen Hawking's view on God; a battle/war between the mono theists and atheists which is very much alive today.

you can watch the video here:
Small | Large


She speaks my mind, it doesn't matter which camp we're on at this point of time. What matters is that we RESPECT each other. Only by respecting each other will we be able to make things possible for everyone to realize their full potential - happiness. There are many paths to happiness..... Not necessary the way we want it to be but the important thing is to understand respect.

We always want the other party to support us and understand us. I think it should start from us educating others by being kind and respecting others at the same time.


Harry Nephew

Love Shugden, Love all Lamas, Heal the World!

Ensapa

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Quote
His Holiness said that placing too much emphasis on secondary attributes like race, faith, social status, nationality and so on is a cause of division amongst human beings. Both religion and contemporary science recognize that destructive emotions cause us suffering, while positive emotions bring us happiness. And as human beings we have a marvellous intelligence that enables us to differentiate between them so we can cultivate our positive emotions and reduce our negative emotions.


Well then, whether or not someone is practicing Dorje Shugden is a secondary attribute, is it not? Then why place so much emphasis on that  to the point that you dont allow them to attend your teachings? To claim that people are bad if they practice Dorje Shugden would be discriminating others based on their secondary attributes as it is part of faith. Sometimes, i find it kinda funny that HHDL contradicts himself again and again...perhaps its a message?