His Holiness: Accept Buddha’s Teachings ‘’Only After Proper Analysis’’

[Galen]

http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/international/2783-his-holiness-accept-buddhas-teachings-only-after-proper-analysis


Dharamshala: His Holiness the Dalai Lama has returned to Dharamshala from Ladakh after giving a teaching to local Buddhists on the fundamental precepts and philosophical underpinnings of all the schools of Tibetan Buddhism. He said: ‘'the four traditional schools of Buddhism in Tibet may superficially seem to differ in the way they explain the [Buddhist] view, but ultimately what they refer to is the same [thing]''.
The Tibetan spiritual leader spent four days in Ladakh, a region in Northern India sometime called ‘little Tibet' due to its strong linguistic, cultural and religious ties with Tibet, and, as he has does many times in the past, His Holiness stressed the importance of the authenticity of Buddhist teachings, and being true to the historical Buddha's words.

He stressed, ‘' In fact the Buddha counseled his followers to examine what he taught and to adopt it only if they felt it was worthwhile, not simply out of respect for him''.

On the second day of the teachings His Holiness talked of Dolgyal (or Shugden). He said that he stopped propitiating the spirit many years ago after extensive investigations had revealed it was improper to do so.

His Holiness encapsulated his thinking on the subject of Dolgyal by saying, ‘'anyone who has kept up the practice of Dolgyal out of ignorance should not have any fear about giving it up if they heed his advice.

On the other hand, he said, whatever fierce spirit you choose is up to you, all His Holiness asks is that such persons do not take vows or empowerments from him.''

Turning to other themes, he reiterated his long standing conviction that Buddhism must not just rely on tradition and handed down conventions based on out dated thinking. For example, in reply to some Korean Buddhists a few years His Holiness said, ‘'that he didn't think the Buddha appeared in the world to give cosmic measurements, but to show the way to liberation from cyclic existence''.

Moreover, the pertinent point he made was that if you take refuge in the three Jewels of Buddhism-The Buddha, Sangha and Dharma- it is because you have consciously tried to ‘'overcome all faults and [ripen] all qualities''.

Cultivating Compassion

On the third day, in order to cultivate compassion, and altruism, His Holiness said that an altruistic attitude-to all living beings-is essential if we wish to achieve Buddhahood. His Holiness went through important Buddhist initiations with the congregation for instance the ‘rite to aspire to develop Boddhichitta'. Boddhichitta: meaning the awakened mind that strives for compassion and solidarity with all humans and all other sentient beings.

On the fourth and final day His Holiness the Dalai Lama gave the long life empowerment associated with White Tara (a female deity in Tibetan Buddhism), and symbolically, she is regarded as the feminine aspect of Avalokitesvara.

Amongst other things, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama went onto discuss the importance of religious tolerance in all parts of the world-not least within the different Tibetan Buddhist traditions and his hope that current tolerance would prevail everywhere.

Finally, His Holiness thanked the congregation and the organizers for making his visit a successful one. His Holiness then conferred the long life empowerment of White Tara and subsequent prayers were conducted in relation to White Tara for his long life. At one point in proceedings, after the sun had come out, he stopped to remark:

"The 13th Dalai Lama was once giving a teaching at Norbulingka on a very hot day and there are reports that you could tell who had attended them by their sunburnt faces. It looks like it'll be the same today."

________________

The Dalai Lama once again talked about Dorje Shugden in his speech. Again he stressed that people should not propitiate Dorje Shugden. However, I notice the more relaxed manner the Dalai Lama spoke as he said that people who prays to Dorje Shugden out of ignorance can stop doing so without fear. Doea that mean that people who have investigated and done due diligence on Dorje Shugden can pray to Dorje Shugden? This is some good news as
the Dalai Lama has relaxed his views.

Also, he also said that it is the people's choice to practice what they want. So, means we could see more freedom of religious practices for Tibetans?

Are these signs from the Dalai Lama that he is loosening his grip on the ban?

May the ban be lifted soon.

[Ensapa]

He stressed, ‘' In fact the Buddha counseled his followers to examine what he taught and to adopt it only if they felt it was worthwhile, not simply out of respect for him''.
Sadly, the amount of people who follow the Dalai Lama's advice because they felt it worthwhile is close to none, while the amount of people who follow his advice simply out of respect and awe of him is basically, everyone. So what is it that HHDL is really trying to point out to his followers? What is more perplexing is that most of these followers prefer to follow his advice the way that they want to, not the way that has been advised by the Dalai Lama.

On the second day of the teachings His Holiness talked of Dolgyal (or Shugden). He said that he stopped propitiating the spirit many years ago after extensive investigations had revealed it was improper to do so.
I would not call assumptions, implications and misinterpretations as improper. I would not quote lamas who have failed in their spiritual careers for that lifetime such as Lelung Rinpoche and the 8th Panchen Lama whose spiritual careers were cut short due to them making the wrong decisions. Unless of course, I want people to think.

His Holiness encapsulated his thinking on the subject of Dolgyal by saying, ‘'anyone who has kept up the practice of Dolgyal out of ignorance should not have any fear about giving it up if they heed his advice.
This does not apply to me because I begun his practice after extensive investigations and after going through a large amount of work and material on Dorje Shugden. It was not a fly-by trip or nor did I follow Dorje Shugden because of peer pressure. Therefore, his advice does not really apply to me.

On the other hand, he said, whatever fierce spirit you choose is up to you, all His Holiness asks is that such persons do not take vows or empowerments from him.''
Is this also aimed for the Tibetan community? So practicing Dorje Shugden is no longer equal to treason? Can we merge the Shar Ganden and Serpom monasteries back into their mother monasteries? Are monks still required to take oaths to prove themselves?

Turning to other themes, he reiterated his long standing conviction that Buddhism must not just rely on tradition and handed down conventions based on out dated thinking. For example, in reply to some Korean Buddhists a few years His Holiness said, ‘'that he didn't think the Buddha appeared in the world to give cosmic measurements, but to show the way to liberation from cyclic existence''.
Following something blindly without investigation is really tradition. It is an unfortunate tradition that the Tibetans passed on to the westerners where science has already taken root in, but their ability to see things rationally was overriden by the exoticness of Tibetan Buddhism and many has been blinded in the name of faith to the Dalai Lama.


The Dalai Lama once again talked about Dorje Shugden in his speech. Again he stressed that people should not propitiate Dorje Shugden. However, I notice the more relaxed manner the Dalai Lama spoke as he said that people who prays to Dorje Shugden out of ignorance can stop doing so without fear. Doea that mean that people who have investigated and done due diligence on Dorje Shugden can pray to Dorje Shugden? This is some good news as  the Dalai Lama has relaxed his views.
To me, it is very clear that the Dalai Lama is preparing the grounds to lift the ban. Why else would he soften his stance now? It is more like he is giving permission to practice Dorje Shugden, but again those who want to take teachings from the Dalai Lama must not practice Dorje Shugden. This is fair.

Also, he also said that it is the people's choice to practice what they want. So, means we could see more freedom of religious practices for Tibetans?
Lets see if apologizes to the monks that were kicked out due to this ban and re-invite them into the monastery.

Are these signs from the Dalai Lama that he is loosening his grip on the ban?

May the ban be lifted soon.

No matter how you see it, The Dalai Lama is preparing to lift the ban. There can be no other explanation to why has his stance has softened so dramatically compared to the previous years. People who speak against the protector before the ban was lifted will regret it tremendously. And they will feel really stupid and silly that they said all those nasty things against Dorje Shugden.

[diablo1974]

Kalama Sutta:
Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority on your teachers and elders.
But after observations and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it.

By Buddha

The above are said by the Buddha in one of his teaching during his times, its valid even up till today. In this degenerated age, we sentient beings are easily hoodwinked and unable to differentiate the truth and false of things eventhough we had observe and analyse....most ppl will till fall into traps but there are who didnt. Will the ban be lifted by natural means or by a authoritative person?

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Diablo

Thanks for sharing re the Kalama Sutta. While it is absolutely Buddha’s teaching that we should examine everything, I do think that it is difficult to rely on our deluded minds to assess anything. For example, the crazy wisdom teachers like Chogyam Trungpa would contradict our logical minds, which is why many people said he was a cult figure.

With regard to the Dorje Shugden ban, I do not think that any authoritative figure could lift the ban simply because the Dalai Lama is perceived as the most authoritative figure for Buddhism in the world. It is an interesting position that he managed to achieve especially as there are so many different schools of Buddhism who do not even agree with the Dalai Lama, yet public perception is such.

Even in Tibetan Buddhism, the Dalai Lama is not considered the authoritative figure by all. Each school of Tibetan Buddhism has its own leader, who traditionally has deference to the Dalai Lama, but technically does not answer to the Dalai Lama. For example, the Gaden Tripa is the supreme head of the Gelukpa school of Buddhism but the 101st Gaden Tripa did not publicly say that he practised Dorje Shugden until he retired.

So the only ‘authoritative’ figure who could lift the ban would be the Dalai Lama himself. Otherwise, it would be natural means, such as after the Dalai Lama passes on.

[Big Uncle]

I think in the beginning, such skepticism is warranted because it is tending towards finding out the truth. There is a certain motivation and a certain line of inquiry in which our questions and doubts are targeting towards finding out the truth or towards seeking knowledge. However, there is a motivation which we have developed a line of questioning that veers off the truth and it is meant to create even more doubts.

Everything depends on motivation. Hence, we can only check out the teachings and the Guru for only so long. There will come a time when we have to let go off doubts and come to a decision whether we want to commit towards the teachings and the Lama. If we have the correct motivation, we move on and go all the way with the teachings and Lama. Others, our spiritual development will be stunted.

[Ensapa]

I think in the beginning, such skepticism is warranted because it is tending towards finding out the truth. There is a certain motivation and a certain line of inquiry in which our questions and doubts are targeting towards finding out the truth or towards seeking knowledge. However, there is a motivation which we have developed a line of questioning that veers off the truth and it is meant to create even more doubts.
Skepticism can be made with an open mind, where the answer found  is backed up with experience or knowledge, or it can be made with a closed and bitter mind, where the motivation behind the skepticism is to prove that the self's view is more important than the external (i.e the view that is foreign to the mind) view as wrong. In any case, the former makes the mind more open and increases wisdom, while the latter increases stupidity.

Everything depends on motivation. Hence, we can only check out the teachings and the Guru for only so long. There will come a time when we have to let go off doubts and come to a decision whether we want to commit towards the teachings and the Lama. If we have the correct motivation, we move on and go all the way with the teachings and Lama. Others, our spiritual development will be stunted.
If we realize that doubts in reality exist due to our attachment to our own ego, then we will slowly loosen our grip on it and we will let go and we will realize that the mind is so much better without doubts, especially towards one's own teacher. When that happens, the students will experience the fruit  of the teachings so much more easily.

Analyzing a teaching is only to fill in the additional who, when what, where, how of a particular teaching or statement. It is not to find faults in it. When done in the correct way it can expand our minds and our knowledge and when done in the wrong way, needless to say, it is counterproductive.

[dsiluvu]

On the second day of the teachings His Holiness talked of Dolgyal (or Shugden). He said that he stopped propitiating the spirit many years ago after extensive investigations had revealed it was improper to do so.

Always say extensive but never show or verify the extensiveness... which brings me to conclude... no proof or evidence basically...hence nothing much to show... just some talk to justify to create an excuse for the ban.

His Holiness encapsulated his thinking on the subject of Dolgyal by saying, ‘'anyone who has kept up the practice of Dolgyal out of ignorance should not have any fear about giving it up if they heed his advice.

This is rather amusing... don't fear in "giving up the practice" but have "fear it may shorten His Holiness's life, cause Tibet's freedom and possibly make you insane"... well these were some of the original justification to give it up in the beginning... now suddenly "NO NEED TO FEAR". See the contradiction!


On the other hand, he said, whatever fierce spirit you choose is up to you, all His Holiness asks is that such persons do not take vows or empowerments from him.''

Does this mean we can still attend Your Holiness teachings??? All we need to do is ensure we do not take on any vows or commitments from Your Holiness... which is perfectly fine by many of us... so when do we here the words... "The Ban is Lifted" or there is "NO BAN"

Turning to other themes, he reiterated his long standing conviction that Buddhism must not just rely on tradition and handed down conventions based on out dated thinking. For example, in reply to some Korean Buddhists a few years His Holiness said, ‘'that he didn't think the Buddha appeared in the world to give cosmic measurements, but to show the way to liberation from cyclic existence''.

So basically His Holiness is saying that we do not need to rely on our Guru, our lineage Gurus and well if that is the case... why rely on the teachings they taught? The sword is sharp on both ends!

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[yontenjamyang]

This is a good sign because this is recent and the fact that he reiterated the "whatever spirits you choose is up to you". This shows that he is softening his stance but "do not take vows and empowerment from him". I take it that when we take vows and empowerment from him, we should regard him as our Guru. And Guru devotion is the primary practice. That being the case, since we do not take vows or empowerment from him, it is ok for him that we practice Dorje Shugden.

This is tantamount to lifting the ban if we think carefully. Just his disciples cannot do the practice. But hey, I do not do other protector practice as well because my guru never ask me to. We follow the Guru's instructions to the teeth. That is all. Does that mean my Guru "ban" other protectors. Of course not.

My point is that "lifting" or not "lifting" the "ban" is a mindset. Just need others to think the same. If we keep calm and just promote the practice, do the practice, the CTA will have no choice.

[Ensapa]

Ooh! sounds like fun! My turn!!

On the second day of the teachings His Holiness talked of Dolgyal (or Shugden). He said that he stopped propitiating the spirit many years ago after extensive investigations had revealed it was improper to do so.

If by extensive proof you mean distorted facts and misinterpreted teachings and biographies, yes, then there is 'extensive' proof that no one else can seem to verify or validate. Proof that magically appears from nowhere that can easily be debased as lies and misinterpretations. And notice how HHDL has been silent to all the refutations? Its because he cannot answer them as there is no concrete reasons.

His Holiness encapsulated his thinking on the subject of Dolgyal by saying, ‘'anyone who has kept up the practice of Dolgyal out of ignorance should not have any fear about giving it up if they heed his advice.

Yeah, those who kept up any Buddhist practice out of ignorance should give Buddhism up in the first place. If I did my investigations and saw that Dorje Shugden is a valid Buddha, is it okay for me to not give him up and continue then?

On the other hand, he said, whatever fierce spirit you choose is up to you, all His Holiness asks is that such persons do not take vows or empowerments from him.''

I dont want to take empowerments or vows from Your Holiness, so can I still attend teachings? I'll just leave the room or mentally shut down when you give them, okay? So I dont really see a problem with it :p

Turning to other themes, he reiterated his long standing conviction that Buddhism must not just rely on tradition and handed down conventions based on out dated thinking. For example, in reply to some Korean Buddhists a few years His Holiness said, ‘'that he didn't think the Buddha appeared in the world to give cosmic measurements, but to show the way to liberation from cyclic existence''.

Does it mean that we should not rely on HHDL's word that Dorje Shugden is bad and investigate it  ourselves? yes, your holiness, we will

And that is exactly why I feel that the Dalai Lama is not exactly "strict" with the ban. The other 3 traditions do not even want to say Dorje Shugden's name but the Dalai Lama reiterates it repeatedly. Know the difference between genuine hate and feigned hate against Dorje Shugden. It saves ourselves from being consumed by hatred.

[samayakeeper]

He stressed, ‘' In fact the Buddha counseled his followers to examine what he taught and to adopt it only if they felt it was worthwhile, not simply out of respect for him''.

On the second day of the teachings His Holiness talked of Dolgyal (or Shugden). He said that he stopped propitiating the spirit many years ago after extensive investigations had revealed it was improper to do so.

My esteemed and exalted lama continues giving the practice to his students because he and his lamas had for many lifetimes propitiate Dorje Shugden. My enlightened lama and his enlightened lamas know it was proper for them to do so.



His Holiness encapsulated his thinking on the subject of Dolgyal by saying, ‘'anyone who has kept up the practice of Dolgyal out of ignorance should not have any fear about giving it up if they heed his advice.

I have no fear of continuing because my lama and his lamas did not do practice out of ignorance.



On the other hand, he said, whatever fierce spirit you choose is up to you, all His Holiness asks is that such persons do not take vows or empowerments from him.''

Thank you, your HH, I have my own lama to request vows and empowerments from.


With no disrespect to HHDL, I follow and do what my lama tells me to. I do not wish to be like other students who do not heed their lama's advice and some even say their lamas may be wrong.

[beggar]

I think we  have to be a bit careful about the way we interpret these teachings which state that we should "only accept the teachings after proper analysis." This a bit of a paradox. If we are truly able to analyse everything completely and accurately, knowing exactly what is good and correct, then surely that would mean are already enlightened - then why would we need the teachings, the teacher or the Buddha? The question I have always wondered is: What basis are we actually using to check and analyse? Surely one practitioner's basis for checking will differ quite significantly from another practitioner's - all depending on what they have already learnt, their own cultural and intellectual backgrounds etc. Some practitioners may well use this as an excuse to never practice, and all they do is to spend their whole lives analysing and analysing and analysing.

So this is what I believe: there is some degree of checking, for sure. For example, the teachings on Guru devotion advice us to check the teacher before taking refuge with him, and give us the guidelines and "criteria" that we should look for in a teacher. We check at this point and analyse based on the most basic teachings and tenets that we learn, and on the premises of basic human kindnesses and ethics, universal across all cultures and people. However, once we have checked the teacher out and accept him, then we are also accepting that this teacher does know more than us and has the ability to teach us and lead us out of our ignorance and troubles. At this stage then, we follow his instructions fully with faith and stop the constant scrutiny and analysis.

There has to be some stage that we have to stop just relying constantly on debate and analysis. We should ask questions and analyse as a way to understand the teachings better, but not for the sake of proving a point, or for us to reject a teaching because we want to hold on to our attachments or perceptions.

In the specific context of the Shugden ban however, I believe that the Dalai Lama's nudging for us to "analyze" the teachings and situations is not about putting down lamas or following in his lead to declare that our teachers are "mistaken" or "wrong", but for us to analyze the dharma logic behind what he is saying, to study the subject and to learn. It is for us to listen to our own teachers, not just follow his words because he is a Lama with a big name. It could well be preparing us for the next generation of teachings and to ween practitioners off a dependency on him.

It could also be for people to think about how they are treating each other. To think clearly that while the Dalai Lama has said that the practice should be banned, he also speaks frequently about tolerance, compassion and kindness. If practitioners are so ardent about following his advice about Shugden, then it should follow that they should also follow his advice about all the other teachings he has given on the Dharma and the practices of compassion. Analysis may not be just about what we are being taught, but about how we are taking in the teachings and applying them in our relations with our teachers, sangha, community and world.

[diamond girl]

Kalama Sutta:
Do not believe in anything (simply) because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
Do not believe in anything (simply) because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority on your teachers and elders.
But after observations and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all then accept it and live up to it.

By Buddha

So, Buddha is telling us to use our brains and contemplate. Think deeper because it matters. Buddhism is not blind faith and not based on the fear factor. Even in being afraid of our own actions comes from knowing and comprehending karma. Once you understand Karma, you will be liberated. This being an example of what I understand here.

So, with the Dorje Shugden controversy this same applies, think from both sides - for and against - and think deeply. Debate your points here on this forum... Make your own Informed choice.

[Amitabha]

"The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, not to worry about the future, not to anticipate the future, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly.

A Brahman saw the Buddha meditating by the River. He engaged the Buddha in conversation.

"What caste are you? Asked the Brahman.

"Caste is irrelevant." Said the Buddha.

"How so," said the Brahman, "surely you would agree that Brahman and royalty are of considerable worth whereas peasants and commoners are not?"

"Caste and riches matter not," replied the Buddha, "it is one's conduct that matters."

"How so," said the Brahman.

"In that fire comes from any type of wood so can a wise person come from any caste. It is through the knowing of truth that one becomes noble not through caste. The noble one is the one that doesn't cling to unworthy attachments. The noble one realizes the true way that things are, he no longer thinks of himself as a self and thus has gained clarity."

"You are truly wise," said the Brahman.

- The Buddha

[Ensapa]

I think we  have to be a bit careful about the way we interpret these teachings which state that we should "only accept the teachings after proper analysis." This a bit of a paradox. If we are truly able to analyse everything completely and accurately, knowing exactly what is good and correct, then surely that would mean are already enlightened - then why would we need the teachings, the teacher or the Buddha? The question I have always wondered is: What basis are we actually using to check and analyse? Surely one practitioner's basis for checking will differ quite significantly from another practitioner's - all depending on what they have already learnt, their own cultural and intellectual backgrounds etc. Some practitioners may well use this as an excuse to never practice, and all they do is to spend their whole lives analysing and analysing and analysing.
This is a paradox of sorts as, the Buddha had 108 volumes of teachings and if we take our time to analyze each teaching before accepting, we would never be able to accept the Buddha's teachings entirely until we die. Since it does not make sense in that way, this teaching must have been targeted at people who wish to choose a religion or a spiritual path, or a teacher. It is okay to have different dispositions or cultures, there will always be something to cater for them but to me, continuously scrutinizing the Guru and the teachings is a waste of time (note: investigating is good but trying to find fault and siding our doubts is not) 

So this is what I believe: there is some degree of checking, for sure. For example, the teachings on Guru devotion advice us to check the teacher before taking refuge with him, and give us the guidelines and "criteria" that we should look for in a teacher. We check at this point and analyse based on the most basic teachings and tenets that we learn, and on the premises of basic human kindnesses and ethics, universal across all cultures and people. However, once we have checked the teacher out and accept him, then we are also accepting that this teacher does know more than us and has the ability to teach us and lead us out of our ignorance and troubles. At this stage then, we follow his instructions fully with faith and stop the constant scrutiny and analysis.
Analysis is still okay to dispel doubt and to check our minds from where the doubt arise: is it from our ignorance? If it is, then we should study more and dig deeper, or is it from the gag reflex to preserve our way of thinking and not changing? If that is the case, we should really do something about that, right? I dont think we should continue to find fault in our teacher once we have accepted him -- thats a waste of time. That should happen BEFORE we accept him.

There has to be some stage that we have to stop just relying constantly on debate and analysis. We should ask questions and analyse as a way to understand the teachings better, but not for the sake of proving a point, or for us to reject a teaching because we want to hold on to our attachments or perceptions.
Sadly, many so called "Buddhists" tend to misuse sutras and quotes to preserve their own perceptions and insist that Buddhism must be in a certain way and if it is not it is not Buddhist. Nothing new, really.

In the specific context of the Shugden ban however, I believe that the Dalai Lama's nudging for us to "analyze" the teachings and situations is not about putting down lamas or following in his lead to declare that our teachers are "mistaken" or "wrong", but for us to analyze the dharma logic behind what he is saying, to study the subject and to learn. It is for us to listen to our own teachers, not just follow his words because he is a Lama with a big name. It could well be preparing us for the next generation of teachings and to ween practitioners off a dependency on him.
Blind faith and personality worship is big in the US, and many times you will find that americans (and people who think like them) worship Lamas not because of the Dharma but because they are exotic.HHDL is reminding them the correct way to worship a Lama: by contemplating and investigating for themselves the teachings and real faith will spring up from there.

It could also be for people to think about how they are treating each other. To think clearly that while the Dalai Lama has said that the practice should be banned, he also speaks frequently about tolerance, compassion and kindness. If practitioners are so ardent about following his advice about Shugden, then it should follow that they should also follow his advice about all the other teachings he has given on the Dharma and the practices of compassion. Analysis may not be just about what we are being taught, but about how we are taking in the teachings and applying them in our relations with our teachers, sangha, community and world.
This point always perplexes me: why is it that people only follow HHDL's advice selectively? They only want to follow certain teachings that are 'easier' to practice, in this case, feeding their 3 poisons by advocating hate against Dorje Shugden but not the 'harder' teachings that go against this such as kindness, tolerance and compassion. Mystery indeed.

Thank you beggar for reminding us on the investigation part. I personally find it very interesting that you brought your points up as it is also what I had in mind. I always enjoy reading your replies as they are very well thought of and extensive.