Becoming a Protector is never easy

[harrynephew]

Dear All,

I chanced by this video clip on a pilgrimage trip by some Drikung Kagyupas who went to a sacred place called Lapchi. In Lapchi they have a Dharma Protector similar to th acolyte of Dorje Shugden named Kache Marpo. This protector of Lapchi is called Tsiu Marpo.

Take time to read the subtitles if u dont understand Chinese or Tibetan and you will notice alot of similarities in the hardship endured by protector beings who had to go through to be who they are today. And when they are who they are today, they continue benefitting people they come into contact with and in doing so enriches the disciples' faith in Buddhism, paving a path for their practice.

Something noteworthy here is that Tsiu Marpo was also murdered like Dorje Shugden and instead of arising as a hand of black smoke, Tsiu Marpo became an alien egg which caused him to emanate further to his other 6 brothers. Each protector has their story, some are fairy tale like and some tragic.

Protectors who arise from contravercial circumstances are many in number. It so happened that our Lord Dorje Shugden was highlighted in the media so he's kinda like in centre stage now. So if he's evil, we'd prolly be part of an evil force by now sucking and draining every good in every being.

watch the edited clip here:

http://youtu.be/h85kDZxwvfk
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[DharmaDefender]

Thanks for the clip Haz. Well the lama was right...if he hadnt explained what the dance is about and the steps, Id not have known.

My questions are this:

...how many Dharma Protectors have previously been evil spirits who were subdued and then sworn to protect the Dharma? So how come its okay to practise them, and not Dorje Shugden? Whats wrong with Dorje Shugden who was never an evil spirit to begin with???

...if Cho Kyong Tsi Mar used to oppose the Dharma, but he could be tamed to protect the Dharma, how come no one can tame Dorje Shugden if hes actually a spirit?

...the poor kings wrong view led to Cho Kyong Tsi Mar becoming a protector? Otherwise the monk wouldve remained a monk, not have been executed, and not made an evil vow. Seems like every beings path to becoming a Protector is predestined (if theres such a thing in Buddhism!)

And is it just me, or do the Tibetans use many words to describe one thing? Jesus Christ, the explanation of how the minister found the princess in the monks cave when he was talking about how Cho Kyong Tsi Mar became a protector was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.

[dsiluvu]

My questions are this:

...how many Dharma Protectors have previously been evil spirits who were subdued and then sworn to protect the Dharma? So how come its okay to practise them, and not Dorje Shugden? Whats wrong with Dorje Shugden who was never an evil spirit to begin with???

...if Cho Kyong Tsi Mar used to oppose the Dharma, but he could be tamed to protect the Dharma, how come no one can tame Dorje Shugden if hes actually a spirit?

Yea... how come it is okay for all the previously untamed ones to become Dharma Protectors, even though they were not so highly attained... and they are accepted. But for Dorje Shugden, it becomes like a superstitious tales from granny.

I guess Dorje Shugden's mind cannot be tamed is purely because you cannot tame those who are already tamed. That is the only logical explanation. No matter how you look at it... this seems to be the only explanation otherwise you might as well give back your refuge vows, monks and nuns no need disrobe and well close all Monasteries cos either Buddha lied or CTA lied that after taking refuge... if you are evil definitely you can be bound to be a Dharma Protector and you will not be able to continue as an evil spirit.

So yea how do you explain all this based on Buddha's words?

[Big Uncle]

Actually, Karche Marpo is just an older manifestation of Tsiu Marpo. Check out this writeup on the main Dorje Shugden website regarding Karche Marpo and Tsiu Marpo:-

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/mandala/great-ministers-of-dorje-shugden/

Kache Marpo

Kache Marpo is believed to be an emanation of Hayagriva in the form of a tsen spirit. Assuming a worldly form, this enlightened Being bound himself willingly to the will of Dorje Shugden and became his main minister. Kache Marpo is described by the Fifth Dalai Lama as the doctrine’s watchman.

He rides a saddled horse with the force of the wind and the speed of traversing the universe in a single instant. As a tsen spirit similar to Setrab, he gnaws upon his lower lip in perpetual fury and haste, like an expression of his impatience to help destroy the obstacles and causes to our suffering.

Also like Setrab, he possesses three eyes that perceive the past, present and future simultaneously. He wears leather armor, with five banners fluttering above his leather helmet. He holds a noose that is tied to the ‘enemy’ – symbolic of ignorance – while simultaneously piercing the ‘enemy’ with a big powerful lance.

Very little is known of Kache Marpo except the fact that he is closely related to Tsiu Marpo, another worldly Protector who is the head of the Seven Blazing Brothers. Kache Marpo could perhaps have once been a part of the seven brothers.

In the story which tells the origin of The Seven Blazing Brothers, Tsui Marpo is said to have first manifested as Lise Chorpa from the land of Li. He was a virtuous man who lived in the forest but was mistakenly believed to be a dangerous man.

Blinded by fear, people hunted him down and the king, in a fit of fear, decapitated him with his royal sword. However, due to the power of his attainments, the various parts of his body – flesh, bones, heart, fluids and so forth – arose as the Seven Blazing Brothers, of which Tsui Marpo is the chief.

[brian]

Thanks for sharing this! Realy loving this and i have to agree that it is sure not easy to be a protector. We are talk about merits and attainments here. Listening to the stories of the protectors (before they manifested as a protector) makes me feel rather sad for what they have to go through. But then again, i feel it is something that they have to go through.

Makes me wonder if there's any source explaining the origins of other protectors as well?

[harrynephew]

Actually, Karche Marpo is just an older manifestation of Tsiu Marpo. Check out this writeup on the main Dorje Shugden website regarding Karche Marpo and Tsiu Marpo:-

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/mandala/great-ministers-of-dorje-shugden/

Kache Marpo

Kache Marpo is believed to be an emanation of Hayagriva in the form of a tsen spirit. Assuming a worldly form, this enlightened Being bound himself willingly to the will of Dorje Shugden and became his main minister. Kache Marpo is described by the Fifth Dalai Lama as the doctrine’s watchman.

He rides a saddled horse with the force of the wind and the speed of traversing the universe in a single instant. As a tsen spirit similar to Setrab, he gnaws upon his lower lip in perpetual fury and haste, like an expression of his impatience to help destroy the obstacles and causes to our suffering.

Also like Setrab, he possesses three eyes that perceive the past, present and future simultaneously. He wears leather armor, with five banners fluttering above his leather helmet. He holds a noose that is tied to the ‘enemy’ – symbolic of ignorance – while simultaneously piercing the ‘enemy’ with a big powerful lance.

Very little is known of Kache Marpo except the fact that he is closely related to Tsiu Marpo, another worldly Protector who is the head of the Seven Blazing Brothers. Kache Marpo could perhaps have once been a part of the seven brothers.

In the story which tells the origin of The Seven Blazing Brothers, Tsui Marpo is said to have first manifested as Lise Chorpa from the land of Li. He was a virtuous man who lived in the forest but was mistakenly believed to be a dangerous man.

Blinded by fear, people hunted him down and the king, in a fit of fear, decapitated him with his royal sword. However, due to the power of his attainments, the various parts of his body – flesh, bones, heart, fluids and so forth – arose as the Seven Blazing Brothers, of which Tsui Marpo is the chief.

Dear Big Uncle

Both stories from the Video clip and the one on the website actually matches! But I still don't get the link between Hayagriva manifesting as Kache Marpo. And also, how could Kache Marpo be an older version of Tsiu Marpo?

Would u happen to know?

[Ensapa]

Here's a biography of Tsui/Tsiu Marpo from a thesis on him that is found online.

Where He Began
What follows is a short narrative account of Tsiu Marpo’s beginnings. This summary is based on the translations provided in the appendices, but I have allowed for a degree of paraphrasing in order to enhance flow and continuity.
A long time ago, when the Buddha Ka?yapa’s teachings were in decline, Sangwa (Gsang ba), king of Khotan, and his queen Utpelgyen (Utpal rgyan) had a son named Chorwa (’Phyor ba). When he reached adulthood, Chorwa became extremely religious and joined a monastery. His monastic name was Candrabhadra. He later went to dwell within a forest in the kingdom of King Dharma?r?.
One day, as Chorwa was in the forest, the daughter of the king, named Majin (Ma byin), was bathing in a pleasant pool. She was attacked by a poisonous snake, and Chorwa, seeing her distress, came and applied medicine to her wound. At that very moment, two of the king’s ministers, who delighted in sexual acts, saw this and, misinterpreting it, reported back to the king. They said, "A ruffian is having sex with the princess!" The king became very angry and summoned his servants; he ordered them to find the monk and kill him.

Upon her return, the princess told them what actually happened and pleaded with her father, but no one would listen to her. Frustrated, she uttered an evil prayer, saying, "I will be reborn as Chorwa’s future mother and I will become your executioner!" After saying, this she committed suicide by leaping off a cliff. Chorwa was later informed of these events by a friend, and so he fled the kingdom on a golden horse. Due to this traumatic affair, his thoughts became disturbed and he regressed in his practice.
He went to Tibet, and in the domain of a king related to Dharma?r?, he poisoned the men and raped the women. One day, the king sent forth his champion soldiers and they captured Chorwa on a mountain path. He was pierced by many swords; near death as he passed from this life, he said, "I will be reborn as a malicious, terrifying violence demon and I will become the executioner of all beings. I will come to destroy the king and his ministers together with his retinue." After saying this, he died.
He was immediately reborn in the west, in the red fields of a might demon land called Chongri Zangtso (’Chong ri zangs mtsho). On the copper peaks of this land, a hundred might demons race alongside soaring dark vultures. Along the middle of the mountains, carnivorous beasts roam about grassy fields of copper. Along the surrounding copper hills, there are terrifying storms of copper. Within the red copper mountain there is a boiling lake of blood. At the center of the blood lake, there is a dark leather castle endowed with a golden dome, gates of conch shell, copper locks, and stairs of lapis lazuli. Here, due to his maliciousness and arrogance, Chorwa was reborn in a red egg of blood. His parents were the savage demon lord Lekpa (Legs pa), "Excellent," and the violence demoness Dongmarma (Gdong dmar ma), "Red-faced Woman." The latter is the daughter of the might demon lord Dawa Tökar (Zla ba thod dkar), "White Skull Moon," forefather of all might demons. When the egg burst open, the malicious violence demon Tsiu Marpo was born.
Due to his great maliciousness and hatred, six might demons emanated from Tsiu Marpo’s body. From his head the black obstructive might demon arose. From his white bones the divine might demon arose. From his body heat and radiance the rock might demon arose. From his blood the defiling might demon arose. From his pus the serpentine might demon arose. From his rotten garments of flesh the knife might demon arose. Having become associated withred mountains and plains, these seven deities slaughtered everyone in the vicinity. They consumed the life-energy of all sentient beings and brought ruin to the three realms.44
At some point, the great bodhisattva Avalokite?vara angrily admonished these seven deities for their severe misconduct. In response, these seven riders, with Tsiu Marpo as the leader, offered up their life essence for karmic benefits and food offerings.
Later, in India, the great spiritual master Padmasambhava arrived at a charnel ground on the banks of a boiling lake of man-eating demons. At the midnight hour of the day he arrived, seven wolves with blood-clotted hair cried out. In response, the spiritual master manifested the form of the glorious Tamdrin (Skt. Hayagr?va). The wolves retreated to their masters, the seven horsemen, and the latter prostrated themselves before Padmasambhava.
The spiritual master asked, "Who are you?"
The master of the horsemen replied, "I am Tsiu Marpo, lord of the violence demons. Previously, Tamdrin conferred empowerments on my team, and from then on we promised to guard the Buddhist teachings."
Padmasambhava then asked, "Tell me, where is your abode? Who are your parents? Where is your essence?"
Tsiu Marpo replied, "My abode is this very charnel ground of India. In Tsang (Gtsang),45 it is called the split cavern. My father is the savage demon lord Lekpa. My mother is the violence demoness Dongmarma. The essence of my life-energy is a tantra recited by glorious Tamdrin."
Then the great spiritual master bestowed empowerments and gave Tsiu Marpo his secret name of Künkyap Dorjé Drakpotsel (Kun khyab rdo rje drag po rtsal), "The Power of the Fierce, All-pervading Vajra." Later, when Padmasambhava arrived in Tibet, he was welcomed by Tsiu Marpo and his team of riders.

There is some complexity in the conversion portion of this narrative. The root tantra explains that Tsiu Marpo and his team of horsemen were subdued and converted by Avalokite?vara, yet its accompanying ritual scripture and Lelung Zhépé Dorjé’s text describe how the seven horsemen were initially subdued by Tamdrin.46 After an encounter withPadmasambhava, the horsemen’s vows to protect the teachings of Buddhism were renewed. This seeming confusion is resolved when we are reminded that Tamdrin is a wrathful aspect of Avalokite?vara, as explained in the introduction.

Text/story is apparently from Lelung Rinpoche, who was the previous Trijang Rinpoche's brother. But it is a very interesting and detailed story of Tsui Marpo.

[Barzin]

Thanks for the video.  It is interesting.. I think different parts of the world and different culture or religion have their protectors.  Some are worldly, some are spirits, some are enlightened and some are manifestations...  Probably there are hundreds and thousands of beings who were subdued and sworn to protect Buddha dharma.  Among these protectors, some are more well known than others..  I believe that Dorje Shugden is the current superstar.  It could simply mean that through study. knowledge, historical fact and people recognized the quality of Dorje Shugden.  So to me, Dorje Shugden is a recognized protector by many, there is no reason why we can't practice Dorje Shugden?

[samayakeeper]

This thread, like other threads found in this site, provides loads of information for the spread of dharma protectors' beginning and how they are benefiting practitioners on the dharma path. It is sad to read those who are opposed to Dorje Shugden making negative comments specially some even using vulgarities to express their thoughts. These people cannot seem to use logical debate from study and research but have to resort to slandering and vulgarity because they were told not to accept and practice Dorje Shugden. But thanks to the hard working people behind the scene of dorjeshugden.com I am able to learn more and to share the knowledge with my friends.

THANK YOU! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. IT IS YOUR PASSIONATE GOOD WORK AND COMMITMENT THAT WILL HELP BRING DOWN THE BAN!

[Ensapa]

In the sakya tradition, Tsui Marpo, Dorje Setrab and Dorje Shugden are all considered as unenlightened protectors but all 3 Dharma protectors are eventually discovered to be enlightened over time. It is only the enlightened protectors that can endure the indignity of being accused of being unenlightened for so long only for their enlightened nature to surface up over time due to the delusion of beings of this day and age. At the same time, we should also be more open minded about whether or not a Dharma protector is enlightened or not.

[Big Uncle]

Hmmm... Did you guys know that Tsui Marpo is very closely related to Kache Marpo? Some even consider Kache Marpo to be one of the Seven Blazing Brothers of Tsui Marpo. Now, I actually wonder how Kache Marpo can be enlightened unless, he manifested being unenlightened and bound himself to the Dharma. Kache Marpo is amazingly an enlightened protector in his own right and has his very own sadhana. However, this protector has humbly submitted himself to Dorje Shugden and become a minister and bound by the rule of Dorje Shugden.

What I think that through this Protector's clairvoyance, he can see the real identity of Dorje Shugden and the potential in which he can serve the Dharma through Dorje Shugden and that's why he bound himself willingly. He must see how much Dorje Shugden can benefit countless living beings and bring a lot of people onto the Dharma and alter the destinies of countless living beings. This is the only reason why I think that Kache Marpo has offered himself. Says a lot about Kache Marpo's compassion and humility and it also says a lot of Dorje Shugden's potential and power to benefit others.

[dsiluvu]

Hmmm... Did you guys know that Tsui Marpo is very closely related to Kache Marpo? Some even consider Kache Marpo to be one of the Seven Blazing Brothers of Tsui Marpo. Now, I actually wonder how Kache Marpo can be enlightened unless, he manifested being unenlightened and bound himself to the Dharma. Kache Marpo is amazingly an enlightened protector in his own right and has his very own sadhana. However, this protector has humbly submitted himself to Dorje Shugden and become a minister and bound by the rule of Dorje Shugden.

What I think that through this Protector's clairvoyance, he can see the real identity of Dorje Shugden and the potential in which he can serve the Dharma through Dorje Shugden and that's why he bound himself willingly. He must see how much Dorje Shugden can benefit countless living beings and bring a lot of people onto the Dharma and alter the destinies of countless living beings. This is the only reason why I think that Kache Marpo has offered himself. Says a lot about Kache Marpo's compassion and humility and it also says a lot of Dorje Shugden's potential and power to benefit others.

"Kache Marpo is believed to be an emanation of Hayagriva in the form of a tsen spirit. Assuming a worldly form, this enlightened Being bound himself willingly to the will of Dorje Shugden and became his main minister. Kache Marpo is described by the Fifth Dalai Lama as the doctrine’s watchman." http://www.dorjeshugden.com/introduction/mandala/great-ministers-of-dorje-shugden/

I sometimes wonder and I don't think it is not possible that these Enlightened beings manifest their emanations in different forms to suit the times and situation and our limited small mind sets. And well if Kache Marpo is Hayagriva, it just goes to show what true humility, kindness and compassion is... because true Buddhas do not see things the way we "normal" folks do, they have no ego and is totally selfless for Dharma to benefits others.

One thing is for sure, if given a choice I would pick Kache Marpo over any other spirit because Kache Marpo is the PA to Lord Manjushri in a wrathful form!

[Ensapa]

Hmmm... Did you guys know that Tsui Marpo is very closely related to Kache Marpo? Some even consider Kache Marpo to be one of the Seven Blazing Brothers of Tsui Marpo. Now, I actually wonder how Kache Marpo can be enlightened unless, he manifested being unenlightened and bound himself to the Dharma. Kache Marpo is amazingly an enlightened protector in his own right and has his very own sadhana. However, this protector has humbly submitted himself to Dorje Shugden and become a minister and bound by the rule of Dorje Shugden.

What I think that through this Protector's clairvoyance, he can see the real identity of Dorje Shugden and the potential in which he can serve the Dharma through Dorje Shugden and that's why he bound himself willingly. He must see how much Dorje Shugden can benefit countless living beings and bring a lot of people onto the Dharma and alter the destinies of countless living beings. This is the only reason why I think that Kache Marpo has offered himself. Says a lot about Kache Marpo's compassion and humility and it also says a lot of Dorje Shugden's potential and power to benefit others.

Karche Marpo is one of the emanations of Tsui Marpo if I remember correctly and it is quite interesting here to see that Tsui Marpo 'lent' one of his emanations to Dorje Shugden.  It is also worth mentioning that in the Sakya tradition that Tsui Marpo, Setrab and Shugden are known as Gyalpo Sum (the 3 Kings, Gyalpo could mean either spirit or king) and are usually invoked as a trinity. Perhaps, they are closely related to each other after all. One thing for sure is that the humility of Kache Marpo to be Dorje Shugden's minister shows that he is indeed enlightened and has no ego at all.

[Rinchen]

Wow, thank you for sharing the video and the detailed stories about Karche Marpo. It is in fact that when a protector arises, there will be many obstacles for them to go through. I believe that through this, it is the last time that they will use to clear that last bit of negative karma they have before they full emanate as a Yidam/Protector.

I believe that Karche Marpo has agreed to be Dorje Shugden's assistant as Karche Marpo knows that it is now time for Dorje Shugden to arise as the protector of our time, to benefit and help all sentient beings of our time now. I would like to thank Karche Marpo for this. As it is through him that we will always have the opportunity to get instructions from Lord Dorje Shugden.

[Dondrup Shugden]

The Dharma Protectors whether enlightened or unenlightened are beings to whom we need to be very grateful for.  They guide us through our spiritual path and remove our obstacles.

From the contributions and stories on this article, it is truly interesting to know the origins of Tsui Marpo and his brothers and also of Kache Marpo.