Dharma brothers and sisters, please be kind.

[Big Uncle]

Oh this is a very interesting and relational topic. I see that a lot in my own center and in our endeavor to practice, sometimes temper are flared and the senior Dharma student may appear to be more pushy and anger-some compared to a junior.

However, we have to look at a more rounded picture. What does the senior person do in your center? Do we fully understand the pressures and responsibilities of the senior student? It is very easy to come to conclusions about senior students after a few heated exchange and I am not saying that pressures and responsibilities is an excuse for being rude or appearing unBuddhist. There's of course a line that needs to be drawn about this. If the behavior is so bad, then we should approach other senior students to remedy the situation and prevent further situations from arising.

If such a measure is unwarranted, then perhaps we should rethink about our perception of what is the problem. Are we being too judgmental about that senior student? More often than not, we are too quick to jump to conclusions because we are not use to criticism and direct feedback. Sometimes, a brash, direct and honest person is easier to deal with than a sweet-talking and conniving person.

[Dorje Pakmo]

Dear Big Uncle,

However, we have to look at a more rounded picture. What does the senior person do in your center? Do we fully understand the pressures and responsibilities of the senior student? It is very easy to come to conclusions about senior students after a few heated exchange and I am not saying that pressures and responsibilities is an excuse for being rude or appearing unBuddhist. There's of course a line that needs to be drawn about this. If the behavior is so bad, then we should approach other senior students to remedy the situation and prevent further situations from arising.

If such a measure is unwarranted, then perhaps we should rethink about our perception of what is the problem. Are we being too judgmental about that senior student? More often than not, we are too quick to jump to conclusions because we are not use to criticism and direct feedback. Sometimes, a brash, direct and honest person is easier to deal with than a sweet-talking and conniving person.

I TOTALLY AGREE.....

[Ensapa]

Oh this is a very interesting and relational topic. I see that a lot in my own center and in our endeavor to practice, sometimes temper are flared and the senior Dharma student may appear to be more pushy and anger-some compared to a junior.

However, we have to look at a more rounded picture. What does the senior person do in your center? Do we fully understand the pressures and responsibilities of the senior student? It is very easy to come to conclusions about senior students after a few heated exchange and I am not saying that pressures and responsibilities is an excuse for being rude or appearing unBuddhist. There's of course a line that needs to be drawn about this. If the behavior is so bad, then we should approach other senior students to remedy the situation and prevent further situations from arising.
I am aware that sometimes tempers do flare, but ill treating juniors and having the occasional outburst are two very different things. I dont see anything wrong with seniors chastising juniors when they make a mistake, but when a senior does it consistently and in a nonconstructive manner, and even puts down the junior in front of other people even after that incident is gone, that is not Buddhist at all. You mentioned that we should approach other seniors, but what if other seniors sides with him instead and it gets the junior into more trouble? I have witnessed this a few times before and the junior even gave up Buddhism as a result of the blatant bullying. I dont think the junior can do much at that point.

If such a measure is unwarranted, then perhaps we should rethink about our perception of what is the problem. Are we being too judgmental about that senior student? More often than not, we are too quick to jump to conclusions because we are not use to criticism and direct feedback. Sometimes, a brash, direct and honest person is easier to deal with than a sweet-talking and conniving person.
Some people may think that it is easier to spread Buddhism in countries where Buddhism has set foot, but in reality it is not as people often already have a preconceived idea and a set of standards that they think Buddhists should be before they consider them to be 'authentic' Buddhists. As we are already in the Dharma, we should erase those. A honest and direct person is much better than a person that is always nice but never solves any problems. In fact, having honest and direct people in a Dharma center is a sign that it is an authentic center.

I like what you have posted here, big uncle, as it sounds like you are experienced in this situation. It is nice to hear feedback from a senior student on this situation and to listen to the other side of the story. It always takes 2 to tango, and it cannot be that only the senior is in the wrong. It could be that the junior happens to be a difficult person as well. Like I have said in my posts before this, it is always a cases by case basis and we should not judge anyone or pin the blame at anyone. We are much better than that because we understand the Dharma.

[icy]

One of the reasons there is a need to adopt a strong countermeasure against someone who harms you is that, if you let it pass, there is a danger of that person becoming habituated to extremely negative actions, which in the long run will cause that person's own downfall and is very destructive for the individual himself or herself. Therefore a strong countermeasure, taken out of compassion or a sense of concern for the other, is necessary. When you are motivated by that realization, then there is a sense of concern as part of your motive for taking that strong measure.

...One of the reasons why there is some ground to feel compassionate toward a perpetrator of crime or an aggressor is that the aggressor, because he or she is perpetrating a crime, is at the causal stage, accumulating the causes and conditions that later lead to undesirable consequences. So, from that point of view, there is enough ground to feel compassionate toward the aggressor. 

Hence we should kindly point out those negative actions of our Dharma brothers and sisters and be compassionate towards them. 

[Tammy]

No matter how long we have been in dharma, how 'advanced' we think we are in our spirituality, ultimately we ony answer and be responsible to our own karma.

We have been collecting negative karma since beginningless time, out of ignorance, anger and greed. Now that we have met dharma and have the golden opportunity to learn the dos and donts in the path to iteration, let's remind ourselves, AT ALL TIMES, who we are and what we represent. Stop collecting negative karma already. Every time a person puts down another publicly using sharp remarks, this person had created negative karma in speech.

We are Buddhists and we represent our dharma centre and more so, our guru. Hence, just walk the talk of a true blue Buddhist by putting Buddha's teaching in practise. Make dharma our way of life, be firm but gentle when we have to correct other people's mistakes. Be strict to ourselves but allow other people leeways.

Take to heart and always always remind ourselves the teachings in the 'Eight verses of mind transformation' this is not just words that we recite as part of Sadhana, but fundamental of Buddha's teachings. If we can't even manage this basic teachings, how to make any advancement in spirituality?

If a centre is filled with angry energy, bitchy remarks flying around and people don't treat each other with sincerity, this centre will not grow and people will continue to run away.

I am giving my views in general and by no means trying to hurt anyone. Just feel very sad that a lot of people could only see the faults of others.. And when dharma brothers and sisters are afraid to give constructive feedback for fear of negative consequences, this person would have little or no chance to change for the better.

I wish I would not be one of these scary people LOL

[sonamdhargey]

Whatever it is, senior students are also human beings. It does not matter how senior or junior we are to practice the dharma. If we react in a bad manner it goes to show how much our practices are. It all come back to one point, as a Junior student, if we practiced if met with ugly senior students, how we react is crucial to our practice and reflects ourselves. Yes it is easier said than done. I'm no better than anyone here or in my centre, but it is during these situations that we practice more right? Anyway Take a step back and see what happens. Ask ourselves what is it that is making us all feel pain? Yes again easier said than done. Nevertheless we can all start now and make a difference in our centre. We can make the difference. Be kind, show care and humilty.

[Ensapa]

To be honest, i think the best approach to this issue is to remember that each case is different and to not judge the situation. Some juniors can be quite bad and it requires wrathful methods to tame them or to educate them. I would see the seniors as being compassionate in this scenario as they want the juniors to improve so that they can become better people. It is not nice to be angry and wrathful to people all the time and I do know that it can be very tiring. Sometimes things are not what they all seem and should not be taken on face value although i do agree that wrathful methods should be dispensed behind closed doors to ensure that newcomers do not have wrong views. So why should we judge? I wouldnt really judge if a junior gets 'mistreated' by a senior, if that senior was really so bad then he or she would have been out of Dharma already. Which Dharma protector or Guru would allow a nasty senior to be near the  juniors and mislead them?

[WisdomBeing]

Hmmm this thread is an eye-opener for me. Although I don’t know which countries you are all from, there seems to be a general consensus that dharma centres have people who are harsh to younger Buddhists – younger in the sense of being in the Dharma as opposed to age.

I do understand what people are saying about being cruel to be kind sometimes but if being cruel pushes people off the edge and they leave the Dharma, doesn’t that defeat the purpose? I know that the Dharma teachers, especially those who are clairvoyant, would be able to be skillful enough to just exert the right pressure and what is needed. However, for lay people, they would be just trying their best.. are there or should there be rules that govern the behavior of the lay people?

I would still abide by verse 44 of the 50 stanzas which I quoted earlier. And I do believe that it is better to err on the side of caution and always have the benefit of the person you are addressing in mind. When we have the benefit of the person in mind, automatically, our actions will be different. When we have anger because of disappointment or because our expectations are unfulfilled, then the actions would be correspondingly different too, with different results.

[bambi]

There are many of us who goes to a Dharma center to be better. Many of us have our emotional problems but that doesn't mean that we have the right to be rude to other people. Then why do we bother to preach, practice and learn if we dont do what we say? To be mindful of our surroundings and especially people who are new so that they dont get the wrong idea of what a Dharma center should be and have the wrong view. We should be helping our Guru to find sponsors, not drive them away. 

[Rihanna]

i am not a member of any Dharma centre so i don't have much to add to this except that i'm surprised that Dorje Pakmo is saying that this kind of thing is happening in her centre which has a Lama present. i would have thought that the Lama would ensure that the seniors behave themselves in the appropriate manner.

I always contemplate on the Dalai Lama’s quote: Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.


In any case, i happened to be reading the 50 stanzas of Guru Devotion last week (http://www.bodhicitta.net/FIFTY%20STANZAS%20OF%20GURU%20DEVOTION.htm) and i would just like to draw attention to stanza 44, which I happen to agree with wholeheartedly:

44. Be diligent in all your actions, (alert and ) mindful never to forget (your word of honor). If fellow-disciples transgress, correct each other in a friendly manner.

All disciples who receive tantric empowerment from the same Guru become "vajra" brother and sisters. You should have great affection and regard among you, helping each other stay on the path. Never be jealous, proud or compete with your fellow disciples. By correcting each other you please your Guru and everyone benefits. If there is unity and harmony among Dharma friends, this will spread into the lives of others around you.



[I am not a member of any dharma centre too. My work schedule is a big obstacle and also where I live, there is no dharma centre nearby. I rely on forums such as this and also reading online on other websites for knowledge.

I remember going to temples very often as a child with my mother who has since passed away. The main deity in this temple is Avalokiteshvara. I would always go in to the inner sanctum of the main prayer hall and sit there and gaze at His holy image for as long as I can. All the devotees, temple keepers, and just about everyone would be so polite and gracious to each other. They would greet each other with folded palms and recite Namo Amitofo. I remember thinking what a harmonious and peaceful environment to be in.

However, the scenario changes in the canteen. I often hear people complaining about each other, bickering and gossiping going on all the time. I was surprised and whatever beautiful impressions I had was totally dashed. That left a negative impact on me as a child. It was so much hipocrisy all around.

So i agree with you that being honest to each other is one of  the best attitude we should practice in a dharma centre. Tell the other person firmly yet gently on what the other person did which you think is wrong or bothers you instead of hostile confrontation in public or talking bad of the person behind his back. ]

[Aurore]

This is a great topic as I have recently joined a centre and reading all your comments help give me a deeper perspective. It is true I have quickly experienced and see what you guys are talking about.

Well, any centre have all sorts of people just like everywhere else. Being in a dharma centre is not going to be any different with the exception that we do want some kind of transformation within ourselves. It's our spiritual journey and dealing with others' attitude is just part of it. Fortunately, I have other supportive dharma brothers and sisters around to explain all this to me. Through all the guidance, I learned that beyond the screaming, testing and mind games there are good and sincere motivation which aim to help me with my transformation.

Having said that, a senior student even with good intentions must learn to skilfully deal with a junior because a junior's mind can be unstable causing them to stop practicing dharma altogether. A senior should check the junior's minds ensuring they are more stable overtime before using "harsher" methods.

[DS Star]

I humbly urge every senior no matter which Dharma centre you are in, be kind and understanding to your juniors, after all, we came into the Dharma for the same reason, to become a better person. Support your juniors for their minds are fragile and may not have the knowledge to execute his / her job well. Support them. Show them. Not hurt them. Do not copy what your Lama do and justify your negative actions by saying you are “training”, people. The Lama is a highly attained being with the knowledge and skillful means to help others. You Do Not. The Lama’s scolding is a mantra that purifies the negativities of his disciples. Yours Doesn’t.

Dorje Pakmo, I can't agree more with you on this.

I can understand some seniors really want to help and were imitating the Lama's approaches but then most of us students don't have the level of attainments of our lama or his skillful means to help juniors effectively. Instead of helping them, we may have hurt them and push them away from Dharma.

Since we still not equipped enough  to use 'harsh' approaches, it is safer to use gentler but firm approaches with our junior Dharma brothers and sisters. We must first build their trust in us with our own sincere actions in doing Dharma works and guide them with clear explanations. Like this they will feel less pressured and more inspired to be involved in Dharma.

As saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

[Ensapa]

Dorje Pakmo, I can't agree more with you on this.

I can understand some seniors really want to help and were imitating the Lama's approaches but then most of us students don't have the level of attainments of our lama or his skillful means to help juniors effectively. Instead of helping them, we may have hurt them and push them away from Dharma.
Senior students should never emulate the Lama. The methods used by the Lama are methods that are tailor made to the particular student's disposition. The Lama is obviously someone who can assess the student more than we can and knows the exact method to handle a particular student, but senior students who is not authorized or trained by the Lama should not even attempt or else they can cause irreversible damage to the juniors or people observing. Seniors should use their own methods and discretion to educate the juniors instead of blatantly emulating the Lama.

Since we still not equipped enough  to use 'harsh' approaches, it is safer to use gentler but firm approaches with our junior Dharma brothers and sisters. We must first build their trust in us with our own sincere actions in doing Dharma works and guide them with clear explanations. Like this they will feel less pressured and more inspired to be involved in Dharma.
Just use the ordinary methods that you know will benefit the juniors instead of taking a gamble of emulating the Lama. It might be fun to emulate the Lama but not when things go wrong and the junior leaves the Dharma as a result, complete with a misunderstanding of the Dharma and possibly will turn away from Buddhism or spirituality altogether. Just use methods that are regular that the junior can accept as opposed to something radical. What's wrong with that?

As saying goes, actions speak louder than words.

Seniors should always lead by example rather than lead by punishments or whatever methods that they use apart than leading by example, compassion and patience. They should never employ unconventional methods on juniors as it will cause more damage and harm than good.