Lama Zopa writes a foreword AGAINST Shugden

[Ensapa]

I am confused... The article started by saying that if we despise or criticize our Guru, then the bad karma is very heavy and very bad. So, if my Guru who is very kind and compassionate and He teaches me Dorje Shugden, then what should I do? Despise Him and get the bad karma? I know HH Dalai Lama is very famous, but He has never come to my country before and has never taught me any Dharma, but my Guru has taught me Dharma etc. How can I despise my Guru just because of what HH Dalai Lama said??

You know, surprisingly, this article does introduce a new way of Guru devotion as the Dalai Lama has introduced (probably as a way to cope with the trauma of losing Reting Rinpoche with an untrue scandal that was believed to be true by everyone at that time): seeing that your teacher really has made a mistake to teach us and that it is ok for our teacher to make mistakes.

But Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Dechen Nyingpo are Buddha. Their practice of Dolgyal is the act of showing ordinary aspect for us. Showing ordinary aspect means showing mistakes. Otherwise there is no other meaning of showing ordinary aspect. Without showing this ordinary aspect for us, there is no method to guide us from samsara. Showing the aspect of having mistakes is what leads us to enlightenment. It is so extremely kind of the Guru to show this; it is like the Guru is giving us skies filled with wish-granting jewels.

Besides this example there are many ways the Guru shows the aspect of having mistakes. For example, showing the aspect of being sick so that we have to explain which foods harm and what not to eat. Another example is when there is no road or if there is a precipice and we have to explain to not go that way. There are many ways the Guru shows having mistakes. When the appearance of mistakes in the actions of the Gurus comes, it is extremely important to use that increase devotion, as this is the cause for oneself to achieve full enlightenment, or to support and increase the Guru devotion that one has generated in one’s own mind without degenerating.

So, our teachers practicing Dorje Shugden is showing us that they are making mistakes...then why is it that Lamas that has abandoned Dorje Shugden often dont make it or become very low profile? Surely NOT practicing Dorje Shugden IS the mistake.

[dsiluvu]

In the past, Kyabje Pabonka Dechen Nyingpo practiced Most Secret Hayagriva, the circle of Dharma from the pure appearance of the Fifth Dalai Lama, but later stopped that practice. One day he told his attendant, “Tomorrow a fat monk will come to see me. Don’t allow him into my room.”

He said this precisely, but the attendant forgot what he said and when the fat monk came the next day, he allowed the monk to go into the room (this was as an obstacle for those not practicing Dolgyal and especially for those practicing Dolgyal). Later, when the attendant entered the room, it seemed the lama was not happy and looked sort of possessed. The thangkas of Most Secret Hayagriva and others had been taken down and the lama had changed in his actions.

How can Pabongkha Rinpoche be possessed?! what kind of propaganda is this? Pabongkha himself wrote that he voluntarily gave up the Nyingma teachings because he realize it would set a bad example to his students of not focusing on one tradition. HE NEVER BLAMED IT ON DORJE SHUGDEN. Why are so many people twisting his words? This sounds like balooney. Lama Zopa would NEVER show an form of disrespect to Pabongkha Rinpoche or Trijang Rinpoche and this is just too much and it is very clear that Lama Zopa is not the author of this foreword.

But Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Dechen Nyingpo are Buddha. Their practice of Dolgyal is the act of showing ordinary aspect for us. Showing ordinary aspect means showing mistakes. Otherwise there is no other meaning of showing ordinary aspect. Without showing this ordinary aspect for us, there is no method to guide us from samsara. Showing the aspect of having mistakes is what leads us to enlightenment. It is so extremely kind of the Guru to show this; it is like the Guru is giving us skies filled with wish-granting jewels.

Buddha? you just said Pabongkha Rinpoche was possessed? Can a Buddha be possessed by a spirit? Such crude words being used to refer to the lineage lamas. Again, there is no way this is Lama Zopa's writing. If Gurus show us the ordinary aspect all the time, then what is the difference if we take our friend as our Guru?  Showing the aspect of having mistakes is what leads us to enlightenment...? how exactly does a Guru make mistakes and lead us to enlightenment? Lelung Rinpoche did by having sex with women claiming that they were dakinis, that was clearly a mistake and nobody got enlightened from that.

Besides this example there are many ways the Guru shows the aspect of having mistakes. For example, showing the aspect of being sick so that we have to explain which foods harm and what not to eat. Another example is when there is no road or if there is a precipice and we have to explain to not go that way. There are many ways the Guru shows having mistakes. When the appearance of mistakes in the actions of the Gurus comes, it is extremely important to use that increase devotion, as this is the cause for oneself to achieve full enlightenment, or to support and increase the Guru devotion that one has generated in one’s own mind without degenerating.

On that NOTE above... then we can conclude that this whole forward is a HUGE MISTAKE Sure sounds like a MISTAKE! Surely if Je Pabongkha and Trijang Rinpoche, Lineage Gurus of Lama Zopa can make mistakes, so can Lama Zopa etc etc etc... it will never end... and in the end... what's the point in having any Guru or believe in any Guru for that matter. It started with HHDL claiming He made a mistake practicing Dorje Shugden and now Lama Zopa saying all this with a rather funny unlike Lama Zopa tone... and again bringing up the tendencies of Great Attained Masters making mistakes.... so this then says all this bogus story is probably a mistake. And perhaps it is just waiting for us to write a respond to these illogical mistake to make it EVEN CLEARER!

I don't think a highly attained Lama like Je Pabongkha can be possessed by any ol spirit... if that is possible, why take refuge in the 3 jewels? Can we get a better story? It seems like a huge slap back on to all the Lamas, Gurus, Buddhas faces!!! Hilarious!

You see if you deny and say someone like Je Pabongkha and Trijang Rinpoche makes mistakes hence their teachings will also be tainted and have mistakes, hence they are saying their teachings has no blessings, no attainments can be achieved from what ever they teach us... so if that is the case then all of our Lineage masters teachings would also be at fault no? And if that is so then why bother... the whole entire Gelug teachings would literally be at fault, no? Might as well close down all the monasteries.... oh dear.



   

[lotus1]

Again… this foreword is very contradicting to how compassion Lama Zopa is known of. From one of his quotes “What differentiates Buddhism from other religions is COMPASSION for every single sentient being.” If Lama Zopa is compassion to every single sentient being, he would not harm anyone or create schism no matter whether he/she is having the same religion opinion with him or not.

The foreword content is contracting.
1.   The earlier part it is saying how important is Guru devotions and to follow the Guru’s instruction. However, Lama Zopa &  HH Dalai Lama is not following what their teachers taught them on Dorje Shugden.
2.   It is mentioned that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche made mistakes. This is illogical. High lama maybe using various skillful way to teach their students but normally it is only limited to the worldly related aspects eg being ill or showing anger. However, for spiritual practice, they are very serious and all the teachings that they passed down, the lineage will be mentioned to show the authenticity of the teachings. Therefore, high attained lama such as Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche will surely not making a mistake in their spiritual practice of Lord Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama also gives exception and allows the current reincarnation of Trijang Rinpoche to practice Dorje Shugden. (

Dalai Lama says Trijang Rinpoche can practise Dorje Shugden	Small | Large

) Is he making a mistake again?

Therefore, I believe the foreword is written by someone else. If it is by Lama Zopa, then he is doing it for the big picture of spreading Dorje Shugden in long run.

[Tenzin Gyatso]

I feel Lama Zopa has realized the extent of the damage Shugden has done. And perhaps he also sees there are still pockets of people caught under the spell of ignorance and harming themselves by continuing their Shugden rituals. Out of compassion for them, he is speaking up stronger. 

After all, Lama Zopa until now has no reputation of harming anyone or speaking falsely, so why would he start now?

[beggar]

I feel Lama Zopa has realized the extent of the damage Shugden has done. And perhaps he also sees there are still pockets of people caught under the spell of ignorance and harming themselves by continuing their Shugden rituals. Out of compassion for them, he is speaking up stronger. 

After all, Lama Zopa until now has no reputation of harming anyone or speaking falsely, so why would he start now?

If you read between the lines, you'll notice that there are many levels that Lama Zopa writes on in this foreword. What may apply to a student of the Dalai Lama will be a completely different message for someone who is NOT the Dalai Lama's student - just as Kris has already pointed out.

There are mixed messages within his foreword, which is perhaps done deliberately. I find it surprising that Lama Zopa writes in such strong tones about this subject, when he has previously maintained a very neutral stance about the Shugden issue. Why the sudden change of heart or tone? I believe that Lama Zopa, being as highly attained as he is, wouldn't write something arbitrarily but with strong, focused and ultimately beneficial intentions. I believe that in this case, he has opened different avenues for debate and thought, and that we shouldn't just take what he has said at face value. How kind he is, actually, to make us, and his students, think deeper, not only about the Shugden issue but about that very profound aspect of Guru devotion.

A few examples of his "contradictions":

- If there is a possibility that our lamas manifest mistakes (such as Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche), then isn't it possible that the Dalai Lama himself is manifesting a mistake with this ban? Everything that Lama Zopa explains about a Lama manifesting ordinary aspects and mistakes could very well be applied to the Dalai Lama himself, couldn't it?!

- He mentions pointedly several times that the Dalai Lama is unquestionably Chenrezig. In this case, would Chenrezig really make a mistake? Or even manifest a mistake at the expense of so many people being hurt?

- He mentions towards the end that we must examine the teachings for ourselves. If we should just have respect and follow what the Dalai Lama tells us to do, then why even examine?

- As Kris has already pointed out - Lama Zopa talks about how detrimental it is to have negative thoughts or doubts towards our Guru. So what if our Guru was NOT the Dalai Lama, but a Lama who has given us Dorje Shugden's practice? Would his advice not apply either in this case? And wouldn't that student of that other Lama also suffer the same karmic consequences if he had negative thoughts towards his teacher and abandoned the practices given to him?

So is Lama Zopa being contrary and fickle? Or does this actually intentionally open up more room for debate, questioning and contemplation upon the Shugden issue? What would the Dalai Lama's real intentions be then? If we were supposed to just NOT do the practice, then JUST DON'T DO IT. Why write long forewords explaining why we shouldn't, give speeches, compile books etc. If the Dalai Lama was Chenrezig and we should respect him so, as Lama Zopa says, then shouldn't we just leave aside all this discussion and just follow his advice?

Why keep talking about it? Or is that the very point?

[Ensapa]

On that NOTE above... then we can conclude that this whole forward is a HUGE MISTAKE Sure sounds like a MISTAKE! Surely if Je Pabongkha and Trijang Rinpoche, Lineage Gurus of Lama Zopa can make mistakes, so can Lama Zopa etc etc etc... it will never end... and in the end... what's the point in having any Guru or believe in any Guru for that matter. It started with HHDL claiming He made a mistake practicing Dorje Shugden and now Lama Zopa saying all this with a rather funny unlike Lama Zopa tone... and again bringing up the tendencies of Great Attained Masters making mistakes.... so this then says all this bogus story is probably a mistake. And perhaps it is just waiting for us to write a respond to these illogical mistake to make it EVEN CLEARER!
Let's just put it this way: why must it be that Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche the ones that made mistakes? cant it be that the Dalai Lama has made a mistake in his judgement about Dorje Shugden? If he can say that Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche can make mistakes and is still holy, why cant Dalai Lama make a mistake with implementing the ban that was not supposed to be? But it does not change his attainments nor our respect for him? Why cant the mistake card be played the other way?

I don't think a highly attained Lama like Je Pabongkha can be possessed by any ol spirit... if that is possible, why take refuge in the 3 jewels? Can we get a better story? It seems like a huge slap back on to all the Lamas, Gurus, Buddhas faces!!! Hilarious!
If a high Lama such as Pabongkha Rinpoche can have such a reaction, then does it mean that  he is not attained as his mind is not that stable after all? how can this be logical that he had such a reaction? But to go as far as say that he looked possessed is way too much to say about a core Gelug lineage master who has given birth to all of the Gelugpa masters of this generation.

You see if you deny and say someone like Je Pabongkha and Trijang Rinpoche makes mistakes hence their teachings will also be tainted and have mistakes, hence they are saying their teachings has no blessings, no attainments can be achieved from what ever they teach us... so if that is the case then all of our Lineage masters teachings would also be at fault no? And if that is so then why bother... the whole entire Gelug teachings would literally be at fault, no? Might as well close down all the monasteries.... oh dear.
Lama Zopa says that they making mistakes is showing us their ordinary aspect....well how are we supposed to know what is an ordinary aspect or not? So are the initiations an ordinary aspect as well? teachings? I dont understand and how can we tell which is an ordinary aspect or not? How many of us can tell which is the Guru's "ordinary aspect" and learn from it? i dont think many of us can. If we cannot, what is the point of the Guru showing us this?

 

No matter what, I still find these points somewhat ridiculous and it is hard for me to accept or reason out. It sounds more like an excuse to say that the ban is valid. I am not really buying it...it takes more than that to convince me. By more, I mean if my Lama told me to stop.

[shugdenpromoter]

Lama Zopa can say or write whatever he wants. People who has at least an ounce of intelligent will not be fooled by the statements he made.

I remembered once a group of monks in Nepal has said Lama Zopa does Shugden puja quite often, some of his students told me before that they have been invited to join the puja.

Whatever it is, I do know for the fact that Lama Zopa is extremely devoted to Lama Yeshe. Lama Yeshe a big practitioner of Shugden and his personal Shugden statue is now in Gangchen Ladrang. See this article below

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/the-dorje-shugden-statue-that-was-in-kopan-monastery-nepal/

[Ensapa]

Lama Zopa can say or write whatever he wants. People who has at least an ounce of intelligent will not be fooled by the statements he made.
If people in FPMT turned against Dorje Shugden to follow the Dalai Lama's lead and forget completely that it was Lama Yeshe's root practice and even got rid of Lama Yeshe's students, and dont even know who Dorje Shugden really is and went against him, what do you think when they read this foreword? I doubt that many people would be able to look deeper and just take it as face value.

I remembered once a group of monks in Nepal has said Lama Zopa does Shugden puja quite often, some of his students told me before that they have been invited to join the puja.
I feel like finding out more of this story, and perhaps a photo, and printing posters of it and sticking it to FPMT centers everywhere and tell them to LEAVE THE DORJE SHUGDEN PRACTITIONERS AND LAMAS ALONE if they dont like us..they can always leave us alone and dont publish nasty statements on newspapers...

Whatever it is, I do know for the fact that Lama Zopa is extremely devoted to Lama Yeshe. Lama Yeshe a big practitioner of Shugden and his personal Shugden statue is now in Gangchen Ladrang. See this article below

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/the-dorje-shugden-statue-that-was-in-kopan-monastery-nepal/
If Lama Zopa had no Guru devotion, Would FPMT grow? Would his students grow? would he be such a high lama? I doubt it. I find that this foreword differs greatly from other works. Not written by him. period.

As far as intelligence goes...i doubt many people will have to discern what is right or wrong. Nowadays, people find it easier to believe in stories rather than cold, hard facts. Sigh.

[Barzin]

I think we are not seeing the whole picture here.  I don't think any high lama would openly criticize one's gurus and lineage like that, even if he meant it i would still choose to believe there are bigger reason than just mere criticism.  If a lama is petty like that to criticize one's practice, lineage and guru then how is it possible to give teachings to thousands if his mind is as petty as what he says.  Unless this is the broken samaya of the students who caused Lama Zopa to manifest this way, I do not know whether is possible.  But because of broken samaya, the lama can manifest in some other ways that is very unpredictable in order for the dharma to reach out to other audience because of the current students do not have the merits to receive the teachings.  We are talking about Lama Zopa here, I still have hope and faith that such an elite master will have his wisdom to accompany his wisdom?  Maybe this will be the ultimate stir in the BUddhism world because the ban is slowly remove?  Only time will tell.

[thor]

I am incredulous upon reading some of the key points in Lama Zopa's forward. Any beginner in debate could see through these flimsy arguments:

This reliance on Dolgyal, be it by pure Dharma practitioners or by those for business or financial reasons, I wonder if this has not been more harmful than the forceful annexation of Tibet by the Chinese Government and the destruction of the teachings of the Buddha.

We may ask, “Why is this?”

Many of those who rely on Dolgyal have received teachings and initiations in the presence of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and have relied on His Holiness as their most kind Guru (Virtuous Friend). Nevertheless, later they have come to regard His Holiness as an enemy.

As you know very well, if you see your root Guru as an enemy, you have to experience the sufferings of the evil gone realms (lower realms) endlessly.

As it is stated in the Root Tantra of Guhyasamaja: “Even if you accumulate the five most heinous negative karmas (without break of another life), it is still possible to attain the state of a Buddha in this life. But, if you have despised your Guru, it is impossible to attain buddhahood in this life.”

If one belittles or criticizes the Guru, one belittles and criticizes all the Victorious Ones. If one first relies on a Guru and then later makes mistakes in devoting to that person as a Guru it becomes an extremely great loss in ones life, because the Guru is the action of all the Buddhas to subdue oneself. Manifesting as the Guru, the Guru is the form of action of all the Buddhas. Even the teacher who teaches you reading, even that teacher, even if you secretly despise and criticize, then you have criticized or belittled the Guru, and that becomes the same as belittling or criticizing all the tendirections Buddhas. This is from the text The Essential Nectar.

The above extract has been used by Lama Zopa to tell us shugden practitioners why we should need the Dalai lama's advice. I would like to say that it equally applies to the Dalai Lama in relations to Trijang Rinpoche, HIS guru. He is not only criticising his guru secretly but openly! Watch the video where the Dalai lama says in public that Trijang Rinpoche made a mistake. Is that not once of the five heinous crimes so eloquently explained above?

Dalai lama supporters may say that the Dalai Lama is not belittling or despising his guru and is merely exercising his right to disagree with just that one point on dorje shugden. Well then, all shugden supporters are merely disagreeing with the Dalai Lama on that same point. So, if the dalai lama dares to disagree with his guru on Shugden, why can't we all do the same with the Dalai Lama?

Next point:

There have also been learned geshes and valid lamas who have practiced Dolgyal. For example Kyabje Pabonka Dechen Nyingpo, who did extensive benefit for the teachings of Buddha and transmigratory beings. People believed it was because he practiced Dolgyal that he was able to bring this extensive benefit through his holy actions. But this is a complete hallucination, without examining the facts, and because of it, many people have just practiced Dolgyal with blind faith.

In the past, Kyabje Pabonka Dechen Nyingpo practiced Most Secret Hayagriva, the circle of Dharma from the pure appearance of the Fifth Dalai Lama, but later stopped that practice. One day he told his attendant, “Tomorrow a fat monk will come to see me. Don’t allow him into my room.”

He said this precisely, but the attendant forgot what he said and when the fat monk came the next day, he allowed the monk to go into the room (this was as an obstacle for those not practicing Dolgyal and especially for those practicing Dolgyal). Later, when the attendant entered the room, it seemed the lama was not happy and looked sort of possessed. The thangkas of Most Secret Hayagriva and others had been taken down and the lama had changed in his actions.

Oh yes of course. Pabongka Rinpoche was possessed by the fat monk. Sure. A Buddha (as lama Zopa himself says in the next paragraph) was overcome by an evil spirit... It's as ridiculous as the Dalai lama saying that his life can be shortened by dorje shugden. An evil spirit can overcome Chenresig? That's the first time I hear the Buddhism cannot protect against spirits, ghosts, pretas, rakshas and the like. Are the prayers that we recite daily all lies? Surely not.


Third point:

But Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Dechen Nyingpo are Buddha. Their practice of Dolgyal is the act of showing ordinary aspect for us. Showing ordinary aspect means showing mistakes. Otherwise there is no other meaning of showing ordinary aspect. Without showing this ordinary aspect for us, there is no method to guide us from samsara. Showing the aspect of having mistakes is what leads us to enlightenment. It is so extremely kind of the Guru to show this; it is like the Guru is giving us skies filled with wish-granting jewels.              

Why does it have to be that it is Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche who are the ones showing their ordinary aspect? Why does it have to be them who are making the mistake about shugden? Could it not be the Dalai lama who is the one  making a mistake about shugden, and he really is a Buddha after all? 

All those long arguments about how the Dalai lama must be correct about shugden because he is Chenresig. Well, Pabongka Rinpoche is Chakrasambara and Trijang Rinpoche is vajrayogini! So who is the one showing ordinary aspect? Those who rely so strongly on the fact that Dalai lama is Chenresig should really read the facts and analyse it logically, and then only decide who is wrong.

And yet another point:

Even the Guru is the actual Buddha, if from one’s own side one does not look at him as the Buddha, then, as it is mentioned in the Kadampa Geshe Potowa’s Blue Pepung, “Even if Manjushri and Chenrezig actually descend in front of you, it won’t benefit you at all, if from your own side you do not look at them as Buddha. You cannot receive any blessings and will not receive profit, only loss.”

How true. Because of the Dalai lama, so many are not able to see that dorje shugden is really a Buddha. It's a shame that so many are not able to benefit at this point, or receive his blessings and protection. He is the protector of our time, but our karma has created so many obstacles for us that not all of us can see his true nature at this time.

And last of all:

Like the story of the Gelong Lekpai Karma, who served Buddha for twenty-two years. In all that time he only looked at the Buddha as a liar, and as a result he was born in the lower realms, the inexhaustible hot hell realms, for eons.

Watch out, all you dorje shugden naysayers!

[Namdrol]

At the bottom I posted the reply from Lama Zopa somtime in 2008 where he tried to clarify things after being exposed that he is actually recognized by Dorje Shugden, well, there is no clarification, he still did not deny the fact that he IS INDEED recognized by Dorje Shugden.

So, could it be that after this was exposed, Lama Zopa is getting more and more pressure from his students, the Dalai Lama, the CTA etc to make a stance against Dorje Shugden in order to show his allegiance towards the Dalai Lama?? Therefore when the opportunity arises for him to write the foreword, Lama Zopa has to write in this manner strongly denouncing Dorje Shugden?

It this is true, it is a sad example of how politics controls over religion, and Lama Zopa has no choice in order to protect the hundreds of FPMT centers worldwide that he started, but deep down inside he is not against Dorje Shugden as he is a true Dharma practitioner.


Lama Zopa's clarification in 2008 about being recognized by Dorje Shugden:

"HOW I WAS RECOGNIZED

To my very dear friends and students,
 
I heard there is some misunderstanding about how I was recognized, so I just want to give you the details here.
 
The main disciple of the Lawudo Lama Kunsang Yeshe (who it is said is my previous life) was Ngawang Chopel. He did many retreats during his life and he also followed the Buddha's example of offering his own body (charity) to the insects and animals for seven days; this was quite amazing as he completely offered and they ate parts of it and he had to be taken to the hospital. Later Ngawang Chopel also built a monastery at Maritika near a cave of Guru Rinpoche (considered one of the most holy places of Guru Rinpoche - where it is said He achieved immortality). Ngawang Chopel was with the Lawudo Lama at the time of his death. The Lawudo Lama explained the signs happening in the death process to him as he was dying.
 
Since I was born in a very poor family, there was doubt by some if I was the incarnation, mainly on the part of the son of Lama Kunsang Yeshe. When Ngawang Chopel heard this he went immediately to Tibet to consult high lamas and all six lamas he consulted confirmed without doubt that I was the incarnation of the Lawudo Lama Kunsang Yeshe. Two of the six high Lamas were His Holiness Tulshig Rinpoche (one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama) and his root guru, the great Lama Rongpu Sangye. So at an early age, long before going to Tibet and the monastery at Pagri (small branch of Domo Geshe's main monastery), I was recognized. Before I left for Tibet the son of Lama Kunsang Yeshe accepted me as the incarnation and promised to return to me the cave and texts etc. belonging to his father after I returned from Tibet.
 
I was brought into Tibet by two uncles; both were my alphabet teachers. Why did I have two alphabet teachers? The first one was from Thami, near Lawudo; he took care of me. When I was very small (maybe four years old) I was always escaping and running home, so my mother sent me far away to the monastery in Rolwaling, a very isolated place high in the mountains near Tibet. There I was in the care of another uncle, Ngawang Gendun, who also taught me the alphabet (Tibetan). I stayed with him in Rolwaling for seven years, memorizing and reading texts and doing pujas called "shi-trol."
 
These two uncles took me to Tibet. In Tibet I stayed with another uncle. He was in the Indian army; then he met a Tibetan lady from Tsang and they married and lived in Pagri, Tibet. Pagri was a very busy place for traders from Bhutan, Kalimpong, Lhasa, etc.  The three uncles with some other Sherpas left me in the care of my aunt while they went on pilgrimage to Lhasa. They didn't take me as they thought the journey would be too difficult and I could die, as I was still very young. After living some time in Pagri (hanging around), outside my house I met a very tall monk (externally appearing not to know me) and immediately he asked me if I would be his disciple (there must have been very strong karma with him). I answered him immediately "yes." Next day in the morning my aunt made a very nice thermos of tea and bread in a bamboo container inside a basket and took me to the small branch monastery of Domo Geshe Rinpoche's main monastery about fifteen to twenty minutes' walk away, where I met the tall monk again - he was the Lopon of this small monastery. The Lopon heard stories of me from people in the village, that I was a tulku from Lawudo near Thami. So the Lopon for his own benefit asked the oracle of the monastery if this was true.
 
With much love and prayer,
 
Lama Zopa Rinpoche"

[Namdrol]

just sidetrack a bit, look at the last line of Lama Zopa's "clarification" in my post above, he says "So the Lopon for his own benefit asked the oracle of the monastery if this was true", and it ends there, so who is the oracle of the monastery? THE FAMOUS DORJE SHUGDEN ORACLE OF DUNGKAR MONASTERY OF COURSE!!! Let me help Lama Zopa in completing his sentence.

Therefore, Lama Zopa himself admitted that HE IS RECOGNIZED BY DORJE SHUGDEN!!!!!!!!!!

[Ensapa]

I am incredulous upon reading some of the key points in Lama Zopa's forward. Any beginner in debate could see through these flimsy arguments:

The above extract has been used by Lama Zopa to tell us shugden practitioners why we should need the Dalai lama's advice. I would like to say that it equally applies to the Dalai Lama in relations to Trijang Rinpoche, HIS guru. He is not only criticising his guru secretly but openly! Watch the video where the Dalai lama says in public that Trijang Rinpoche made a mistake. Is that not once of the five heinous crimes so eloquently explained above?
Hmm, if you put it that way, perhaps the foreword was really written by Lama Zopa, but it contains some kind of hidden message meant for the more intelligent to decipher. HHDL has always advocated an unique stance of Guru devotion where it is okay for the Guru to make mistakes, he's still a Buddha which also means, in a double edged way, that he could be wrong also. If he could be wrong about Dorje Shugden, that does not mean he is not Chenrenzig, but just manifesting an ordinary mistake?

Dalai lama supporters may say that the Dalai Lama is not belittling or despising his guru and is merely exercising his right to disagree with just that one point on dorje shugden. Well then, all shugden supporters are merely disagreeing with the Dalai Lama on that same point. So, if the dalai lama dares to disagree with his guru on Shugden, why can't we all do the same with the Dalai Lama?
There is really no such thing as exercising the right to disagree with Dorje Shugden because if you can disagree with Dorje Shugden, you might as well disagree with Lama Tsongkhapa as they are of the same mindstream and it can even go further to exercising the right to deny the existence of the 4 noble truths. Then what Buddhism is left?

Next point:

Oh yes of course. Pabongka Rinpoche was possessed by the fat monk. Sure. A Buddha (as lama Zopa himself says in the next paragraph) was overcome by an evil spirit... It's as ridiculous as the Dalai lama saying that his life can be shortened by dorje shugden. An evil spirit can overcome Chenresig? That's the first time I hear the Buddhism cannot protect against spirits, ghosts, pretas, rakshas and the like. Are the prayers that we recite daily all lies? Surely not.
If Pabongkha Rinpoche was possessed by a fat monk or whatever it is, then it would mean that his Dharma practice had no results from the start. But this contradicts completely with the stories of his remarkable tantric achievements and being able to perceive Heruka and Vajrayogini directly. Surely it would mean that those are lies! You have a very valid point there, thor.

Third point:

Why does it have to be that it is Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche who are the ones showing their ordinary aspect? Why does it have to be them who are making the mistake about shugden? Could it not be the Dalai lama who is the one  making a mistake about shugden, and he really is a Buddha after all?

All those long arguments about how the Dalai lama must be correct about shugden because he is Chenresig. Well, Pabongka Rinpoche is Chakrasambara and Trijang Rinpoche is vajrayogini! So who is the one showing ordinary aspect? Those who rely so strongly on the fact that Dalai lama is Chenresig should really read the facts and analyse it logically, and then only decide who is wrong.
I do agree in full about this point. Why must it be the high lamas that have made a mistake? Why cant it be HHDL? is it because he is the pope of Tibet therefore whatever he says must be true? Or that he is actually gauging the intelligence of his disciples this time around? Spiritual devotion in Buddhism is always based on investigations and how can one come to a proper conclusion with biased facts?

How true. Because of the Dalai lama, so many are not able to see that dorje shugden is really a Buddha. It's a shame that so many are not able to benefit at this point, or receive his blessings and protection. He is the protector of our time, but our karma has created so many obstacles for us that not all of us can see his true nature at this time.
It is sad indeed that so many are unable to derive benefit from Dorje Shugden due to the ban. It is a shame indeed to not be able to derive benefit from a great being such as Dorje Shugden who can literally provide the sincere practitioner with all they need, from a spiritual guide to material needs and even help with mental or physical sickness. Perhaps the negative karma of those during this time are causing them to not be able to see Dorje Shugden as who he is.

Like the story of the Gelong Lekpai Karma, who served Buddha for twenty-two years. In all that time he only looked at the Buddha as a liar, and as a result he was born in the lower realms, the inexhaustible hot hell realms, for eons.

Watch out, all you dorje shugden naysayers!
For those, especially those who turned their backs on Dorje Shugden after receiving so much help, assistance and benefits from him, this story talks of a very probable outcome for you guys.

Excellent analysis and refutal indeed, Thor. your points are very well thought of, and is extremely logical in more ways than one. It did made me  think...maybe Lama Zopa DID write the foreword, but with many underlying clues for the more intelligent person to read and decipher.

[yontenjamyang]

It is a paradox to equate the Dorje Shugden practice with that of the Lama manifesting ordinary aspect as a method to shows disciples a way out of samsara.  In the ordinary course of the day perhaps this may apply. For something a major as this I have my doubts; for then we can also argue that the Dalai Lama or Lama Zopa himself is also showing ordinary aspect. So this point from the foreword is as good as not making any point or ...is Lama Zopa telling us to just follow our Guru.

After all, Guru Devotion is the supreme method.

I think if Lama Zopa has not refuted the foreword, whether it is written by him is not the point. I think he skillfully inserted many arguments that to the anti-Shugdens, look like well...anti-Shugden but to Shugden practitioners he is basically asking to follow the Guru as he is the emanations of all the Buddhas.

[Ensapa]

I think we are not seeing the whole picture here.  I don't think any high lama would openly criticize one's gurus and lineage like that, even if he meant it i would still choose to believe there are bigger reason than just mere criticism.  If a lama is petty like that to criticize one's practice, lineage and guru then how is it possible to give teachings to thousands if his mind is as petty as what he says.  Unless this is the broken samaya of the students who caused Lama Zopa to manifest this way, I do not know whether is possible.  But because of broken samaya, the lama can manifest in some other ways that is very unpredictable in order for the dharma to reach out to other audience because of the current students do not have the merits to receive the teachings.  We are talking about Lama Zopa here, I still have hope and faith that such an elite master will have his wisdom to accompany his wisdom?  Maybe this will be the ultimate stir in the BUddhism world because the ban is slowly remove?  Only time will tell.

When it comes to broken samaya, it is very obvious that Lama Yeshe's failure to return as a Lama as Lama Osel is a very clear sign of that. FPMT centers have been more concerned with things such as policing the Buddhist centers in their region and "checking" out lamas and Buddhist events held in the countries that they set foot on and making sure that they are valid, and making associations and groups and cliques of Buddhist communities in the region for networking purposes. This is in addition to what they have been doing about the ban and discriminating against Dorje Shugden practitioners. Lama Zopa's stroke last year was a very strong warning sign for the FPMT people that their broken samaya is reaching a critical level. Sadly, many of them still do not get it and still go about as if everything is okay and what they are doing is right. This foreword is EXACTLY what his students are dying to hear from him and perhaps he is just making them happy for now, at the cost of his own samaya. I dont know if you have noticed, but of late, Lama Zopa's activities have severely diminished. It will only get worse from here.

I dont really know what will happen soon if the students do not change or buck up or at least engage in Samayavajra...so that they will gain the wisdom to not do what will make things worse....