Author Topic: Questionable FPMT policies?  (Read 12739 times)

beggar

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Questionable FPMT policies?
« on: September 03, 2012, 08:48:00 PM »
Hmmmm! I'm very glad this was written! I have often heard of FPMT members speaking very unpleasantly towards Shugden practitioners and it's not surprising that the organization has certain policies like this. A quick look around and I found the actual policy quite easily. Here it is for your very convenient download: http://www.chandrakirti.co.nz/assets/Shugdenpolicyguideline.pdf

And then read the many very good, very logical points in the letter below, just published on the website. I'm really very glad that someone has had the courage to refute these many points. Help spread the word - people (of FPMT!) need to understand how damaging and illogical their policies are, and what a negative image it will eventually to give to Buddhism as a whole.


------------------------------------------------

(The original article can be read here:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-questionable-policies-of-the-fpmt/)

The Questionable Policies of the FPMT

Dear friends of FPMT,

We hope you are well and that your Dharma activities flourish greatly everywhere.

We write with much distress since we came across this recent document regarding a public policy that has been issued by the Foundation of the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition (FPMT) organization. As one of the largest leading Buddhist organizations in the world, it is surprising and disappointing to see that you would make such statements, which we feel are not at all in the spirit of Buddhist teachings. Your stance and policy vis-à-vis “The Shugden Issue” is attached here for your convenience, which we will refer to within this letter.

Of course, it is the prerogative of every organization and institution to establish policies for their members. It is necessary, in fact. There is however, a fine line between simply stating a policy regarding certain issues and practices, and passing judgment on another’s practice or on other practitioners. This policy, we feel, crosses this fine line in several places, which we will address:


1.   We find it interesting that the statements against the practice of Shugden are necessarily and intricately tied in to “support of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.” You state, for example,

FPMT has made a commitment to support His Holiness, because of understanding the reasons why His Holiness has advised against this practice. Due to our commitment, we do not share our materials and facilities with those who knowingly continue to practice Shugden against this advice.

This strongly implies that Shugden practitioners are deliberately not heeding the Dalai Lama’s advice. This is not a correct assumption to make nor to suggest because:
-   Shugden practitioners may not necessarily be students of the Dalai Lama and therefore are not obliged in any way to follow his instructions. They are not contravening any “advice” by continuing their practice; nor does it mean that they are not supporting His Holiness.
 
-   Further, although Shugden practitioners are not following the same advice and practices as you, as a Dharma practitioner, shouldn’t you still extend your help and aid to them? It seems very strange that we would offer aid and blessings to animals and spirits, but not wish to share materials and facilities with someone just because they make a different religious choice.

2.   A part of your document about the Shugden issue includes extensive guidelines on how centers must state “[clearly] that the center supports His Holiness” in all your printed and online materials. Why is this directive being stated in the context of the Shugden issue? This necessarily and automatically implies that Shugden practitioners are against the Dalai Lama and do not support him. As has already been pointed out above, this is NOT the case and a person’s choice to practice Shugden is not an act of defiance or disloyalty.

Of course, we rejoice to hear of how much you support His Holiness. However, surely the support of a spiritual leader should be inherent within a center’s practices, out of a sincere respect and devotion to him; it should not reiterated in the context of not doing a particular practice. It appears very political in this way. 

3.   In “supporting” the Dalai Lama’s ban against Dorje Shugden, you thus also support the very reasons for denouncing Shugden’s practice. If anyone is well versed in the most basic tenets of Buddhism, they would realise that these reasons are illogical and against the practice and most fundamental Dharma teachings. How can FPMT purport to give authentic Dharma teachings and practices to their members and students, when they are promoting policies like this that completely contravene the teachings of Buddha? These points can be very easily disputed, as follows:

i.   The danger of Tibetan Buddhism degenerating into a form of spirit worship.
Thousands of highly attained masters – including the Dalai Lama in his earlier years, Lama Yeshe (the founder of FPMT) and even Lama Zopa have recognized Dorje Shugden as an emanation of the Wisdom Buddha Manjushri. How can all these masters make such a huge error to confuse a Buddha with a spirit? Can they all have been wrong? We don’t think so. Engaging in Dorje Shugden’s practice is NOT one of spirit worship, but one that we can take full refuge in and gain attainments by.

ii.   Obstacles to the emergence of genuine non-sectarianism.
In stating this, you seem to support the claim that Shugden practitioners are sectarian. How is this the case? How is it that Shugden practitioners are sectarian? They simply follow the instructions, teachings and practices given to them by their teachers, within their monasteries and lineage. Just because they do not take teachings from other teachers or sects does not mean they are sectarian! This is the same practice across all lineages. Further, if you were to study the propitiation and prayer texts of Dorje Shugden, nowhere will you find any encouragement towards acting in sectarian ways. This claim is irrational and untrue.


iii.   The practice is especially inappropriate in relation to the well-being of Tibetan society.
- Firstly, how can a religious practice affect the secular running and well-being of Tibetan society (or any society)? Isn’t the well-being of the people the responsibility of the government and secular authorities? It does not make sense to say that a single practice or a so-called “spirit” can impact the well-being of an entire society.

- Secondly, the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people is His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who is broadly recognized as the emanation of Chenrezig and therefore, fully enlightened. To say that a certain practice would affect Tibetan society is to say that this one being of Shugden (who you claim to be a spirit) has more influence and power than the Dalai Lama himself. How is this possible? Again, it is illogical.

- Lastly, there are many, many FPMT centers around the world that are NOT situated within Tibetan societies of communities. They operate within completely different countries and governing laws, and the centers are run by people who are not of Tibetan origin at all. How would their Dharma practice have any bearing on the Tibetans? It is like saying that if a Christian prayed to a certain saint, it would badly affect the Italians. It is illogical! 

4.   Another point you make is this:

Center libraries should not contain books by known Shugden practitioners Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition) and Gangchen Rinpoche. The purpose of this exclusion is to avoid generating confusion among students about who is a reliable Tibetan Buddhist teacher.

It is surprising and saddening that your policy also includes judgments of other Buddhist teachers. We respect every center’s right to choose any books they wish as study material or for their libraries. However, this should not allow you to pass judgment on the reliability or caliber of any Lama. To say this, you are directly inferring that teachers like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and his entire organisation of the New Kadampa Tradition and Gangchen Rinpoche are not “reliable Tibetan Buddhist teachers”. Please remember that both these teachers studied under the same Guru, Trijang Rinpoche, as FPMT’s own spiritual guide and founder, Lama Zopa and Lama Yeshe. The teachings they give around the world follow exactly these teachings from the holy lineage of Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche, including the Lamrim, which we are sure is also practiced within FPMT.

5.   It is most shocking that you would try to discourage Shugden practitioners from joining other Buddhist unions and organizations. First and foremost, Buddhism is not dictated solely by the Dalai Lama; nor does it “belong to” and is ruled by the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans. There are many, many Buddhists in the world who have not even heard of his name. Buddhist unions and organizations do not only comprise groups that are under the direction or lineage of the Dalai Lama; they include groups from all sects and traditions, so whether or not someone practices Shugden should not even be an issue.

Supporting the Dalai Lama is always a good thing for he is a great teacher and has done so much for the Dharma. But he does not have any right to determine any individual’s practice and freedom of religion, especially if they are not his students. By discouraging anyone from joining a Buddhist union or group is very disharmonious and serves only to create greater conflict within the Buddhist community. You show the world that this is how you treat fellow Buddhists.

Actually, if you really believed that this practice of Shugden was “harmful” and “bad”, wouldn’t you want, all the more, to help these people to understand things better instead of just simply excluding and disassociating from them? In the Buddhist teachings, we are encouraged to help the most difficult beings, to extend help and blessings even to spirits! But we would turn away Shugden practitioners who are, essentially, also fellow Buddhists? Shouldn’t we be even kinder and more patient with them, to help them understand a “correct” way?
 
We are writing out of sincere and genuine concern; not out of any wish to antagonize or offend. If our words have sounded harsh, we apologise. It is not our intention to disrespect or hurt, for we greatly admire the many decades of work and dedicate of FPMT to bring Dharma everywhere. However, we are most disturbed seeing this policy that you have issued and wish only to draw your attention to these matters.

We hope you will take the time to consider what we have written. Whether you choose to practice Dorje Shugden or not is not for us to judge, but we sincerely request you, at the very least, not to disparage, belittle, push away or put down Shugden practitioners in this way. They are Buddhists too, they are people too, many of them are very sincere practitioners with great devotion to their teachers and the Three Jewels, and carry the very same spiritual aspirations as your good selves.


With prayers,
dorjeshugden.com        |        dorjeshugden.net        |      xiongdeng.com


Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 07:16:23 AM »
Thank you so much for this incredible letter. I find it a very compelling article for those who talk against Dorje Shugden, especially so called Gelugpas who are filled with misconceived ideas and have no idea what is right or wrong. Every Lama of this generation has practiced Dorje Shugden before, whether or not they want to admit it or whether or not we like to believe, if they havent, their Gurus and root lamas would probably have practiced Dorje Shugden as well. However, I would like to add one thing: The silly idea that Lamas who have practiced Dorje Shugden before are tainted or that if they receive teachings from a Dorje Shugden lama, they become tainted is NOT a Gelug idea. This is actually, a Nyingma/Kagyu ideology, meant to drive people away from Gelug (Since every Gelug lama alive has practically been "touched" by Dorje Shugden, either directly or indirectly). It would be extremely shameful if a Gelugpa says that and proclaims that as he or she is deriding his/her own lineage.

Why care about the "taint" as long as you can get perfect teachings that can still have results? If the Dharma is what you really want, why care about which Lama has practiced what, unless you do plan to relocate to Dharamsala one day and take Dalai Lama up as your root lama and train and study under him personally. FPMT should really focus on the teachings rather than being worried about trifling things of this nature.

lotus1

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 11:33:28 PM »
At first, I just could not believe a Buddhist center by Lama Zopa that I highly respect will have such policy which is so ridiculous. I checked out the website and found that it is true. The following statement is found on the website(http://www.chandrakirti.co.nz/index.php/about-us )

Quote
The Protector Policy
Those in service or teaching in FPMT centers and projects do not engage in the practice of Shugden. Students regularly attending FPMT centers should not practice Shugden. FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are known Shugden practitioners. Center members should be made aware of this policy. If possible, members with voting rights should also commit to following this policy. Shugden policy


Please note that the link of the policy has been changed to : http://www.chandrakirti.co.nz/images/Documents/Policies/Shugdenpolicyguideline.pdf

This policy is discrimination. For a center and practitioner of Mahayana or Vajrayana that walks the path of Bodhisattva, it would spread the core teaching of Boddhicitta. I just could not imagine why would a Bodhisattva no longer have equanimity towards Shudgen practitioners???!!! Isn't it a joke?

Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 11:14:55 AM »
At first, I just could not believe a Buddhist center by Lama Zopa that I highly respect will have such policy which is so ridiculous. I checked out the website and found that it is true. The following statement is found on the website(http://www.chandrakirti.co.nz/index.php/about-us )

Quote
The Protector Policy
Those in service or teaching in FPMT centers and projects do not engage in the practice of Shugden. Students regularly attending FPMT centers should not practice Shugden. FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are known Shugden practitioners. Center members should be made aware of this policy. If possible, members with voting rights should also commit to following this policy. Shugden policy


Please note that the link of the policy has been changed to : http://www.chandrakirti.co.nz/images/Documents/Policies/Shugdenpolicyguideline.pdf

This policy is discrimination. For a center and practitioner of Mahayana or Vajrayana that walks the path of Bodhisattva, it would spread the core teaching of Boddhicitta. I just could not imagine why would a Bodhisattva no longer have equanimity towards Shudgen practitioners???!!! Isn't it a joke?


I find this interesting that they only state that those practicing Dorje Shugden should not enter their center. I have a few questions:

1) How in the world do you know if someone who walks through FPMT is a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not if he or she keeps quiet? How can you tell? Do you have someone that has clairvoyance at the doors and when they see a Dorje Shugden practitioner, they will stop this person from entering? If a DS practitioner keeps his mouth shut about his own practice and just wants to check out your teachings, what right do you have to stop them? Is it really any of your business to know what Dharmapala people practice if they do not choose to reveal?

2) I dont see anywhere in your policy that says that your members should publicly deride Dorje Shugden lamas and practitioners. Was this also part of Lama Zopa's instructions to you? Did the Dalai Lama teach this? If they did not, why did you publicly criticize other Lamas who do and discourage OTHER PEOPLE (not just your own members) from going there? Why twist your Lama's instruction?

To me, the policy isnt the problem, but how it was implemented is. It is very obvious that these people are twisting it around for political reasons.

spikyeddie

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 05:00:40 PM »
Quote
FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are
known Shugden practitioners.

It's funny, 'cause on their website, they listed HH Trijang Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/488-hhtrijang.html), HH Ling Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/487-hhling.html), HH Zong Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/489-hhzong.html), etc known Shugden practitioners, as Lama Zopa's teachers. Lama Yeshe (http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/yeshe.html), the founder, is in as well. So what are they trying to say? It's ok in the past, but now it's not ok? And all these high lamas made a mistake? So are they trying to say their entire organization and teachings they received have been a mistake also? How ridiculous.

Center libraries should not contain books by known Shugden practitioners Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition) and Gangchen Rinpoche. The purpose of this exclusion is to avoid generating confusion among students about who is a reliable Tibetan Buddhist teacher.

That's absurd. Lama Yeshe relied strongly on Dorje Shugden. Are they going to remove every single book by Lama Yeshe from their library as well? Are they going to remove Lam-Rim from their library as well? HH Pabongkha Rinpoche and HH Trijang Rinpoche are known Shugden practitioners. Are they not afraid it will "generate confusion among students about who is a reliable Tibetan Buddhist teacher"? This is so silly.


Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 05:56:03 PM »
Quote
FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are
known Shugden practitioners.

It's funny, 'cause on their website, they listed HH Trijang Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/488-hhtrijang.html), HH Ling Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/487-hhling.html), HH Zong Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/489-hhzong.html), etc known Shugden practitioners, as Lama Zopa's teachers. Lama Yeshe (http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/yeshe.html), the founder, is in as well. So what are they trying to say? It's ok in the past, but now it's not ok? And all these high lamas made a mistake? So are they trying to say their entire organization and teachings they received have been a mistake also? How ridiculous.
Because they discarded their lineage already. They dont really consider themselves as Gelugs neither do they realize the importance of the lineage Gurus. Although Lama Zopa compassionately reminds them again and again to never forget the Lineage Gurus, they always seem to be very selective with the advice from Lama Zopa. Sigh. I really hope to see them change before they implode.

Center libraries should not contain books by known Shugden practitioners Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (New Kadampa Tradition) and Gangchen Rinpoche. The purpose of this exclusion is to avoid generating confusion among students about who is a reliable Tibetan Buddhist teacher.

That's absurd. Lama Yeshe relied strongly on Dorje Shugden. Are they going to remove every single book by Lama Yeshe from their library as well? Are they going to remove Lam-Rim from their library as well? HH Pabongkha Rinpoche and HH Trijang Rinpoche are known Shugden practitioners. Are they not afraid it will "generate confusion among students about who is a reliable Tibetan Buddhist teacher"? This is so silly.
Why single out only Geshe Keslang Gyatso and Gangchen Rinpoche? What about Serkong Tritul? Different market? I find this very political indeed when it comes to the motivation behind such rules. The main reason is because they fear that these Lamas will pull their members away, which is why they forbade them.And you're right, if works by Dharma teachers who practice Dorje Shugden are not allowed, then Liberation in the Palm of Your hand should not be allowed too because Pabongkha is a practitioner.



I love your strong points here, spikyeddie. It shows that you do understand the situation and the absurdness of the whole policy. To me, no matter how anyone wants to put it, there is no logic to such policies and they are not necessary at all.

samayakeeper

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 02:17:24 AM »
FPMT is just one of the other 'siblings' that are out to get the one 'sibling' (shugdenpas) who does not want to listen to their 'parents' (CTA) not to heed the words of their 'grandparents' (Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche). This one 'sibling' is independent, respect their 'grandparents' very much for whom without he would not be who he is today. Why should the one 'sibling' heed what the 'parents' say when the 'parents' themselves did not heed and do what their 'grandparents' taught them?

beggar

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 08:58:35 AM »
Quote
FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are known Shugden practitioners.


It's funny, 'cause on their website, they listed HH Trijang Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/488-hhtrijang.html), HH Ling Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/487-hhling.html), HH Zong Rinpoche (https://www.fpmt.org/teachers/lineage-lamas/489-hhzong.html), etc known Shugden practitioners, as Lama Zopa's teachers. Lama Yeshe (http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/yeshe.html), the founder, is in as well. So what are they trying to say? It's ok in the past, but now it's not ok? And all these high lamas made a mistake? So are they trying to say their entire organization and teachings they received have been a mistake also? How ridiculous.


Actually, it is not unusual for centers to not actively encourage their members / students to attend teachings by other lamas. This is a common practice of the monasteries also as it is not just something political, but involves the samaya and relationship between student and teacher - i.e. we should not run around attending teachings by other teachings without first asking the permission of our teacher, who knows what we need best. If we do, then it is saying that our teacher cannot teach us what we need to know and we need to go elsewhere for further instruction.

So this practice alone is not unusual, but to put it in the context of it being a Shugden issue is not correct. We shouldn't be running around attending other teachings, full stop - whether the lama is a Shugden lama or not.

It saddens me to think that this policy has twisted commonly practiced aspects of Dharma for political reasons. I'd like to draw your attention to this point in the letter also, which is an example of this (note the sentence in red, in particular):

"  A part of your document about the Shugden issue includes extensive guidelines on how centers must state “[clearly] that the center supports His Holiness” in all your printed and online materials. Why is this directive being stated in the context of the Shugden issue? This necessarily and automatically implies that Shugden practitioners are against the Dalai Lama and do not support him. As has already been pointed out above, this is NOT the case and a person’s choice to practice Shugden is not an act of defiance or disloyalty.

Of course, we rejoice to hear of how much you support His Holiness. However, surely the support of a spiritual leader should be inherent within a center’s practices, out of a sincere respect and devotion to him; it should not reiterated in the context of not doing a particular practice. It appears very political in this way."

Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2012, 03:36:18 PM »
Actually, it is not unusual for centers to not actively encourage their members / students to attend teachings by other lamas. This is a common practice of the monasteries also as it is not just something political, but involves the samaya and relationship between student and teacher - i.e. we should not run around attending teachings by other teachings without first asking the permission of our teacher, who knows what we need best. If we do, then it is saying that our teacher cannot teach us what we need to know and we need to go elsewhere for further instruction.
On this point, I fully agree with you with this. To seek another teacher when our own teacher is perfectly capable of teaching us is a slap across the teacher's face and its like saying that our own teacher lacks knowledge to teach us. It only makes sense to check with our own teacher first before finding another teacher. If we do not respect our teacher in this way, why do we even consider our teacher as a teacher in the first place?

So this practice alone is not unusual, but to put it in the context of it being a Shugden issue is not correct. We shouldn't be running around attending other teachings, full stop - whether the lama is a Shugden lama or not.
If we only stick to one teacher, what need is there to fear a Shugden Lama? Because you need not seek teachings from him. If you dont, what risk is there in any way?

It saddens me to think that this policy has twisted commonly practiced aspects of Dharma for political reasons. I'd like to draw your attention to this point in the letter also, which is an example of this (note the sentence in red, in particular):
People do love to be political. The Kalama Sutta for instance has been misused by certain people to put down Mahayana and Vajrayana for many years. This cannot be prevented as it is part of human nature, but we as practitioners should be more cautious.

"  A part of your document about the Shugden issue includes extensive guidelines on how centers must state “[clearly] that the center supports His Holiness” in all your printed and online materials. Why is this directive being stated in the context of the Shugden issue? This necessarily and automatically implies that Shugden practitioners are against the Dalai Lama and do not support him. As has already been pointed out above, this is NOT the case and a person’s choice to practice Shugden is not an act of defiance or disloyalty.

Of course, we rejoice to hear of how much you support His Holiness. However, surely the support of a spiritual leader should be inherent within a center’s practices, out of a sincere respect and devotion to him; it should not reiterated in the context of not doing a particular practice. It appears very political in this way."

With this 'rules', it is very clear that FPMT wishes to go things about politically instead of focusing on the pure Dharma which is very sad indeed. They have to wake up to the fact that there is no benefit to being political and focus on the pure Dharma instead.


Thank you beggar for your clarification on this subject and reminding us on why is having only one Guru important. Of course, some Gurus actually ask their disciples to get teachings and initiations from as many teachers as possible but we're not talking about them...we're talking about having a Guru that is willing to stay and train us, compassionately in the Dharma.

DharmaDefender

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 03:54:06 PM »
Apparently the questionable policies of FPMT intrigue enough people to garner 906 likes, and 61 shares. I wonder what it is about the write-up that gets to them. Ive always found it strange that FPMT have been so vehemently opposed to the practice that their lama gave them. If you remove the core practice of an organisation, whats left??

Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 03:47:15 AM »
Apparently the questionable policies of FPMT intrigue enough people to garner 906 likes, and 61 shares. I wonder what it is about the write-up that gets to them. Ive always found it strange that FPMT have been so vehemently opposed to the practice that their lama gave them. If you remove the core practice of an organisation, whats left??

Thats really good to know as FPMT is a popular organization and any news about FPMT will receive a lot of attention and this will really make people think twice about their policies. People do want to know the truth and they do care about the truth because they want to know what is really going on. The reason for the popularity is because Lama Yeshe is loved by many people and the picture of him with Zong Rinpoche is rare indeed (because, well, Lama Zopa is a DS practitioner and FPMT does not like him, thats why his pictures are rare.) everyone likes a rare picture and when they actually read what is going on with the whole thing, they will learn of another side to the story and they will question FPMT's repressive policies. Lama Zopa's policy has been neutral all along and for some reason the members skewed it to be fanatical. We get your love for the Dalai Lama but how can it override the Guru's instructions?

What is left of FPMT is nothing but a shell of things. It's just a gompa who teaches politics instead of Dharma. FPMT centers around the world has remained stagnant for a very long time and their members did not increase. Yet nobody really saw this as a problem.

beggar

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2012, 02:58:17 PM »
Glad to see all the responses on the facebook post. Goes to show that people are reading and learning, which I'm very happy to know. This is after all, the point of promoting the practice and having people read, understand the issues and strengthen their faith in our holy Protector.

I think it is important however for people to understand that these articles are not about making FPMT look bad or to criticise them, but to point out logically that what they are doing or saying can often be harmful to other fellow practitioners. On a larger scale the issues are not just about FPMT in particular, but about how all of us as individuals conduct ourselves in response to the ban on DS and how we react to or treat other Shugden practitioners. Bringing up this issue is also to bring up questions of samaya, how we maintain the sacred practices of our lineage gurus.

I hope people who are reading these threads and website articles about FPMT here and on the Facebook page understand this as it's a very important point. I think the strongest point that must be made about these articles is NOT that we are attacking what Lama Zopa is saying but pointing out that the actions of his students have become damaging not only to themselves but also to others. It is about pointing out the effects of not maintaining a good samaya and how the misuse of their Lama's advice can have very detrimental results. It isn't about their Lamas, but about how their students act in ways that are not actually in accordance with their Lamas' teachings and the Dharma. So now, we see that even the Lamas or FPMT are manifesting sickness and not teaching.

I hope FPMT will realise this before it's too late. It isn't meant to be a criticism, like I said, but about encouraging people to have a long hard think about how they are handling the issue of this ban.

Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 04:35:33 AM »
Glad to see all the responses on the facebook post. Goes to show that people are reading and learning, which I'm very happy to know. This is after all, the point of promoting the practice and having people read, understand the issues and strengthen their faith in our holy Protector.
Yup, in this global age, it is easier to reach out to information than before and people do learn more and they do want the truth. It is important for people to know what is going on for them to make the right choice. Buddhism is not about converting people anyways, it is more or less about educating people and giving them a choice so that they can choose what they want to do.

I think it is important however for people to understand that these articles are not about making FPMT look bad or to criticise them, but to point out logically that what they are doing or saying can often be harmful to other fellow practitioners. On a larger scale the issues are not just about FPMT in particular, but about how all of us as individuals conduct ourselves in response to the ban on DS and how we react to or treat other Shugden practitioners. Bringing up this issue is also to bring up questions of samaya, how we maintain the sacred practices of our lineage gurus.
FPMT has a large influence over Buddhism in the countries that it has set foot on, which is why if they spread a damaging or dangerous view, it could affect many people like a nuclear bomb. They should really reconsider and revaluate how they are going about with the ban because they are spreading harmful information to others, which will affect them directly and it has. Lama Zopa's stroke, the failure of the Matrieya project to have any progress and the stagnation of FPMT centers worldwide are all results from what they are doing. They are not bad...perhaps, just misguided.

I hope people who are reading these threads and website articles about FPMT here and on the Facebook page understand this as it's a very important point. I think the strongest point that must be made about these articles is NOT that we are attacking what Lama Zopa is saying but pointing out that the actions of his students have become damaging not only to themselves but also to others. It is about pointing out the effects of not maintaining a good samaya and how the misuse of their Lama's advice can have very detrimental results. It isn't about their Lamas, but about how their students act in ways that are not actually in accordance with their Lamas' teachings and the Dharma. So now, we see that even the Lamas or FPMT are manifesting sickness and not teaching.
I really hope they understand the point as well: that they should just focus on Dharma and not on policing people to which centers they can do and what deities they can practice. Maintaining good samaya is not twisting the teacher's words because it is easier to achieve it that way or because its more fun, or adding our own interpretations to the words. Lama Zopa says Dorje Shugden practitioners cant go to FPMT centers but he certainly did not tell anyone to police other Dharma centers.

I hope FPMT will realise this before it's too late. It isn't meant to be a criticism, like I said, but about encouraging people to have a long hard think about how they are handling the issue of this ban.
In a way, it is already too late for them. But I do hope that they would change before Lama Zopa manifests impermanence. I hope that they will grow, i really do, but at this current rate, it is sad to see.


I dont really see what is written here as criticism or an attack, but i see it as something that they can learn from and hopefully wake up from their activities. They should stop waging war against NKT/Khadampa centers that reside in the same country or area and focus on the Lamrim and remember their samaya. Lets hope that they will wake up.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2012, 10:19:14 AM »
FPMT is saying the Gelugpa pot is contaminated. Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche contaminated pots ? Dorje Shugden corrupted and contaminated the entire Gelugpa lineage?

If that is the case many of the FPMT teachers and study material is corrupted as Gelugpas are a big stickler for lineage and passing on dharma from teacher to the next. FPMT by calling all the previous high lamas contaminated pots is shooting themselves in the feet. Lama Yeshe was truly big in his reliance on Dorje Shugden. If the seed is no good how can the fruit be? FPMT is the fruit of Lama Yeshe. 

Ensapa

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Re: Questionable FPMT policies?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 12:28:47 PM »
oh I really find it so funny and pretentious when FPMT keeps saying "No Dorje Shugden practitioners please" mainly because, how would they know if someone is a practitioner or not of they choose not to reveal? There is no way for them to know or find out. Will they have to do a background check on every single member? What if a practitioner lies to them and tells them that they are not? Then how?

On the fact that FPMT is a Gelug center but they are trashing their lineage protector, its rather unfortunate, but has anyone heard of anything new from FPMT centers worldwide to date? Or any progress with the Maitriya project? None? That explains a lot.