Author Topic: The Cholsum Conspiracy  (Read 8165 times)

vajratruth

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The Cholsum Conspiracy
« on: December 26, 2012, 07:37:28 PM »
The more I research the history of the Tibetan government in exile, the more I feel a need to slap myself silly for thinking that they are merely a bunch of inexperienced politicians paralyzed by the complexities of foreign policies and international relations which I thought explains their half-century of lethargy.  But as it turns out, Tibetan politics may have taken Machiavellian statecraft  to new heights.  We on the outside wonder in puzzlement how come the Tibetan exiled government never really did get close to reaching accord with the Chinese after so many decades. The simple answer that is emerging, is that the politicians have been more interested in internal power struggles than regaining Tibet’s independence.

One of my biggest misgivings about this controversy is how Dorje Shugden has been so slanderously called a demon and an evil spirit when the opposite is true. And yet when you think about it, the Dalai Lama has never publicly said so on international media. In fact His Holiness even denied that there is a ban at all. So, the question is who or what has been behind such a noxious campaign that has been effected not only within the exiled community but also on a world scale.

Posted below this paragraph is part of an older (1998), albeit still relevant article by James Burns that goes a long way towards exposing a carefully planned movement designed to demonize Dorje Shugden in order to rally support for the Dalai Lama’s political ambition. The plan was not without opposition but it appears the government within the government have been extremely effective in silencing dissent. The following letters are a bit lengthy but worth every reading every line:

The Tibetan Exiled Community is a tightly structured social community with a Cabinet, an elected Assembly and a variety of other social and regional organisations. On the 10th February 1998 the United Cholsum Organization (an organisation set up in the early 1960's purporting to represent the three main regions of Independent Tibet: U-Tsang, Do-toed and Do-med provinces), attempted to convene a general Tibetan Conventioin Dharamsala on the 21st and 22nd of March 1998. This convention was
meant to take place in the Convention Hall of the Tibetan Institute of the Performing Arts in Dharamsala. The Official Agenda stated three main aims of the Convention. The first was to insure the safety of the Dalai Lama who they said was the target of the 'enemy'. This 'enemy' had been previously identified in their announcement as the Dorje Shugden Society and individuals identified in the 'Ten Enemies of Tibet List' (See Dorje Shugden International Coalition Appeal).

The second aim of the Convention was stated as how to institute the great religio-political visions of His Holiness. As a second part to this the aim acknowledged the changing International Situation with
respect to His Holiness's interests and how best to respond to it. What this meant was how to further implement the Ban on Dorje Shugden devotion, as a step towards the integration of the various Tibetan
Religious Traditions, without losing the support of the International Community.


The last aim of the Convention was  stated as how to marginalize the Dorje Shugden Society  and the International Campaign. The United Cholsum Organization accused the Dorje Shugden Society of being paid by the Chinese and Taiwanese to carry out their activities. Part of this aim was stated as how to identify and expose those 'bad elements', who worship Dorje Shugden, to the General Tibetan Public. What this really means is a proposed campaign of public dis-information against the Dorje Shugden practitioners so that they can be better persecuted. In other words they are proposing a 'witch-hunt'.

These proposals have caused divisions between Dharamsala and the outlying settlements and also divisions between Traditionalists and the United Cholsum Organization. This first proposed meeting on the 21st March 1998 had to be cancelled because of concerted pressure against it from the settlements outside
Dharamsala. However, in an announcement of July 22nd ,the Convention has been reconvened with the same Agenda for three days starting on the 25th August 1998.

There is still considerable opposition to this meeting. A letter of disapproval was sent from the Kham Regional Society of Mysore (Old and New Camps) accusing the United Cholsum Organization of creating discord and suffering within the Tibetan Exiled Community. They also stated that they were disappointed that despite several previous letters of objection the meeting still seemed to be going ahead. They stated that in the event that it did they would commence legal action against the United Cholsum Organization. (NOTE: The Tibetan Exiled Community as refugees within India are not permitted to undertake political activities).

Pema Gelek, the Nyingma Head of Camp 4 (Old), has offered his support and assistance to the Dorje Shugden monks of Pomra Khangtsen (Sera-Mey). He has said that he will help in any way he can.

A letter of disapproval regarding the United Cholsum Organization Convention has been sent by the 4th Camp Peoples Community to the Head of the Committee of the 13 Settlements mobilising them against what is proposed.

This letter states the opinion that it is the United Cholsum Organization which is actually working for the Chinese and causing the dis-harmony. It accuses United Cholsum Organization officers and associates of working for their own personal gain and being concerned more about money and power than about Dharma or the Tibetan People.

The letter raises similar issues to those mentioned in the Mongoose Canine letter and details the actions of the United Cholsum Organization in the past. In particular it mentions the United Cholsum Organization
accusing Dudjom Rinpoche of being a Chinese spy in the early 1960's and having him arrested; of trying to defame the 16th Karmapa; of constantly belittling and criticising  Sakya Goma Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Ling Rinpoche.


The letter further connects the organisation with the death of the Mustang Guerillas, and the assassination of Kundang Tsultrim  from the 13 Settlements. It mentions that the representative of United Cholsum
Organization, Gongo Lhadeng, went to prison in Bhutan for his attempt to destabilse the country. This activity has had repercussion on the Tibetan refugees and involved members of the Dalai Lama's own family.

The letter finishes by accusing the United Cholsum Organization of attempting to gain total control over all the Tibetan exiled community by changes in political election and representation. It draws notice to the connection between cabinet minister Sonam Tobgyal (who signed the ban on Dorje Shugden practice) and the United Cholsum Organization.

[Translations of the letters discussed in this report will be posted separately to satisfy the sceptical. If anyone wishes a Tibetan original please send a SAE to the London Address of the Dorje Shugden International Coalition]


And here is an appeal letter from the Dorje Shugden Devotees’ Charitable And Religious Society (the kind of people Robert Thurman referred to as “Talibans of Buddhism”) that could have avoided the controversy had Dorje Shugden’s enlightened nature been a genuine concern, but it never was. Read and note the tone of letter:


Dorje Shugden Devotees'
Charitable and Religious Society
Tibetan Colony, Delhi 54
'The Central Executive Office
United Cholsum Organization

'Sir,

According to your recent announcement dated July 22 for a general convention of Tibetans, it is clear that you have no inclination to give credence to our sincere clarifications of the fact that this society does not have any contact with Communist China or Taiwan, that this society does not have any political objective,that this society has never taken recourse to violence in any way. Moreover, we whole-heartedly accept His Holiness the Dalai Lama as one of our root gurus, and therefore we cannot even contemplated causing any harm to his person.

'The above suspicions have come about only for the reason that, not willingly to adopt duplicity in our relationship with His Holiness, we are insisting with all due respect to him that we want to have free choice to pursue our religious belief. Therefore, it is reported in a Tibetan language newspaper datelined May 9 that during a recent interview to reporters in America on May 5, he is quoted as saying that he does not encourage worship of Shugden nor does he ban the worship of Shugden. Thoughtful Tibetans are aware of this news item. Giving full credence to this statement as a worldwide clarification on the issue, we
were very much encouraged. 

On the heels of this statement, however, came your allegation:

In the name of your organization, you allege that this society is supported with money and means by the Chinese government.  Not content with that colorful allegation, you have also employed the word dra-woi-
ngo-tsab (representative of the enemy) to describe us. The educated Tibetan public is also aware of this.
As you have publicly made this regrettable and baseless charge in your announcement, sir, it has now become imperative to have a face to face scrutiny of your charges and evidence in full view of the Tibetan
public, as in our adage that 'the fish becomes clear when the water settles, the traveling is easy when dawn breaks'.


With regard to our credentials as Tibetans,  we share in all the hopes, aspirations and ordeals of the 6 million Tibetans.  The fact that we uphold this fully will become clear to you if you ask the leaders of the Tibetan enclave in Delhi. Concerning your special mention of individuals in the announcement, the subject being personal, we are sure the world public will have ample clarification from the concerned individuals.

As our society has been presented in this way, this is a good opportunity for you to present your evidence to the Tibetan public to substantiate why you feel this way.  When there is a patient face to face scrutiny on this issue, listen to each other, let each other give their reasons for these doubts, present their evidence, the truth will naturally come out in the open. Through this public scrutiny, lingering doubts in the minds of His Holiness and suspicions and doubts among the Tibetan public will subside and die out.

Owing to your announcement, such a close examination has now become inevitable, since all Tibetans want 'a sky free of smog and a ground free of dust'. Owing to these compulsions, we would like to inform you that about a Hundred delegates from among our membership would like to participate in the general convention, to avail of this opportunity to clear before the Tibetan public the rampant public misconception about this society.

We would like to request you that these participants be duly registered upon their arrival, and helped with accommodations, on a par with other delegates. Our real enemy, which the entire world knows, is behind the Himalayas.  They have killed millions of our brethren and destroyed our  very identity as a people.  If we are not able to trust each other as Tibetans, we may be pointlessly giving free labour to our enemy.  Such a face to face meeting and clarification, on the other hand, will heal division, remove misunderstanding, and bring back unity and strength to our community.

The absence of such an understanding and conflict resolution, and the calling of students from all Tibetan schools to be part of a religio-political exercise not only reveals insensitivity to their worth as the future of Tibet but, moreover, may expose  a trend in our community which future Tibetans may not judge favorably.  Neutral observers and future Tibetans, when they review the Tibetan society of this generation, may definitely conclude that the present generation of Tibetans have lived in a society where every avenue of isolation and destruction is tried, without any compassion or mercy, upon those Tibetans who hold a different view and who does not give up themselves to the official viewpoint.

In view of these facts, therefore, we urge that, in order to make it possible for all Tibetan to put their shoulder to the wheel in unity, towards the common Tibetan cause under the guidance of His Holiness the
Dalai Lama, it is imperative that this allegation against this society needs to be proved or disproved once for all, in full view of the Tibetan public. 

We request this opportunity with respect and all sincerity. 

Respectfully yours,
'Mr Jampal Yeshe
President'. (Seal and Signature)       
(copy to all major Tibetan administration departments,
Tibetan enclaves outside Tibet,
Tibetan support groups,
Tibet Houses abroad etc.)







« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 07:40:35 PM by vajratruth »

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 07:52:38 AM »
Quote
The more I research the history of the Tibetan government in exile, the more I feel a need to slap myself silly for thinking that they are merely a bunch of inexperienced politicians paralyzed by the complexities of foreign policies and international relations which I thought explains their half-century of lethargy.  But as it turns out, Tibetan politics may have taken Machiavellian statecraft  to new heights.  We on the outside wonder in puzzlement how come the Tibetan exiled government never really did get close to reaching accord with the Chinese after so many decades. The simple answer that is emerging, is that the politicians have been more interested in internal power struggles than regaining Tibet’s independence.

One of my biggest misgivings about this controversy is how Dorje Shugden has been so slanderously called a demon and an evil spirit when the opposite is true. And yet when you think about it, the Dalai Lama has never publicly said so on international media. In fact His Holiness even denied that there is a ban at all. So, the question is who or what has been behind such a noxious campaign that has been effected not only within the exiled community but also on a world scale.

Tibetans have always been very fierce and very complicated in politics, far more than anyone around can actually imagine. Why do you think they were able to switch from a monarchic system to a system where the head of the state is also the religious head of Tibet? Why do you think that Tibet was encased in a dark and very feudalistic like state for so many decades that does not reflect Buddhism at all? It's because they are very daft when it comes to politics and they can also be very cruel when it comes to this.

Big Uncle

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 09:20:50 AM »
Dear Vajratruth,

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama has never spoken about Dorje Shugden? That is so not true. Just go to YouTube and do a search on the Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. You will find that there is a long list of videos across many years of various public statements within Tibetan circles or to international audiences about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is not a conspiracy cooked up by certain quarters. The ban was started by the Dalai Lama himself and so, there is no conspiracy as you talk about.

However, I am not surprise about the Cholsum organisation and I find it ridiculous that money and energy was spent on enforcing the ban when there is so much pressing issues with regards to social development and even reinitiating talks with China. I would say it was a complete waste of money and a wrong direction for CTA to have pursued. It brought only damage and nothing beneficial at all. Hence, it is no wonder that Tibet lost its country and I would say it was due to the mismanagement of the Kashag/ the predecessor of CTA.

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 10:29:59 AM »
Dear Vajratruth,

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama has never spoken about Dorje Shugden? That is so not true. Just go to YouTube and do a search on the Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. You will find that there is a long list of videos across many years of various public statements within Tibetan circles or to international audiences about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is not a conspiracy cooked up by certain quarters. The ban was started by the Dalai Lama himself and so, there is no conspiracy as you talk about.

However, I am not surprise about the Cholsum organisation and I find it ridiculous that money and energy was spent on enforcing the ban when there is so much pressing issues with regards to social development and even reinitiating talks with China. I would say it was a complete waste of money and a wrong direction for CTA to have pursued. It brought only damage and nothing beneficial at all. Hence, it is no wonder that Tibet lost its country and I would say it was due to the mismanagement of the Kashag/ the predecessor of CTA.

Even if the Dalai Lama had said anything against Dorje Shugden, it is not the government's duties to enforce it with the people. It is up to the individual practitioners to give Dorje Shugden up if they want to or continue with the practice. The government should not step in and enforce a religious ban and even putting up hitlists of people who practice Dorje Shugden and encourage shops to deny groceries to Dorje Shugden practitioners. The very fact that Cholsum has chosen to do this shows us that they are still very archaic in thinking and as what Big Uncle had said, the time and money in that could have been better spent in winning independence from China

dsiluvu

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 02:20:16 PM »
Dear Vajratruth,

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama has never spoken about Dorje Shugden? That is so not true. Just go to YouTube and do a search on the Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. You will find that there is a long list of videos across many years of various public statements within Tibetan circles or to international audiences about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is not a conspiracy cooked up by certain quarters. The ban was started by the Dalai Lama himself and so, there is no conspiracy as you talk about.

However, I am not surprise about the Cholsum organisation and I find it ridiculous that money and energy was spent on enforcing the ban when there is so much pressing issues with regards to social development and even reinitiating talks with China. I would say it was a complete waste of money and a wrong direction for CTA to have pursued. It brought only damage and nothing beneficial at all. Hence, it is no wonder that Tibet lost its country and I would say it was due to the mismanagement of the Kashag/ the predecessor of CTA.

Even if the Dalai Lama had said anything against Dorje Shugden, it is not the government's duties to enforce it with the people. It is up to the individual practitioners to give Dorje Shugden up if they want to or continue with the practice. The government should not step in and enforce a religious ban and even putting up hitlists of people who practice Dorje Shugden and encourage shops to deny groceries to Dorje Shugden practitioners. The very fact that Cholsum has chosen to do this shows us that they are still very archaic in thinking and as what Big Uncle had said, the time and money in that could have been better spent in winning independence from China

You know I really did not even want to bother to read it. Just reading your comments is enough for me to know that this is the very reason why they still did not get their peace talk. Basically if Tibetan politics is in such a shape... then who would have the confident for them to lead???? Why would I want a govt who does not know what they are doing to lead my country? And you know after His Holiness passes... it is gonna be more chaotic and messy... everyone including the CTA is gonna be so so lost. Because all this while they were so dependent of HHDL to call all the shots and make all the decision. Basically it has become almost dogmatism in certain perspective.

So what's next? I cannot phantom a possibility of Tibetans in China ever going to gain independence if CTA continues in such a manner. It is time for them to really change their style, it has not work for 50 over years, pleading and urging China to change their mind... why would it suddenly change now? Just cause a few frustrated Tibetans burn themselves? China's probably saying "thank goodness" less problem for them.

Definitely the amount of energy they put to campaign against Dorje Shugden, could be spent on creating more schools, colleges, medical centers and better welfare for their own people in exile.

vajratruth

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 02:43:50 PM »
Dear Vajratruth,

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama has never spoken about Dorje Shugden? That is so not true. Just go to YouTube and do a search on the Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. You will find that there is a long list of videos across many years of various public statements within Tibetan circles or to international audiences about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is not a conspiracy cooked up by certain quarters. The ban was started by the Dalai Lama himself and so, there is no conspiracy as you talk about.


Big Uncle, yes the Dalai Lama has spoken many times publicly about Dorje Shugden. What I meant to say was that in public, His Holiness has played down the intensity of the ban and the severity of its repercussions. In reality, the ban, the motivation behind it, the methods deployed to enforce it and the people behind it still, are all far more sinister than the world public has been led to believe.


samayakeeper

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 01:09:59 AM »
The Tibetans are probably one of the few people on Earth that fear their leaders and government so much that most of them do not speak up for their religious belief and rights. I think it is silly because Tibetans no longer have a country, the leaders and government have no country no rule, yet the majority of their people is so afraid of the ban on Dorje Shugden practice.

I thougt Buddhism is a philosophy based on study, contemplation and practice, and not based on the fear factor.

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 04:33:57 AM »

You know I really did not even want to bother to read it. Just reading your comments is enough for me to know that this is the very reason why they still did not get their peace talk. Basically if Tibetan politics is in such a shape... then who would have the confident for them to lead???? Why would I want a govt who does not know what they are doing to lead my country? And you know after His Holiness passes... it is gonna be more chaotic and messy... everyone including the CTA is gonna be so so lost. Because all this while they were so dependent of HHDL to call all the shots and make all the decision. Basically it has become almost dogmatism in certain perspective.

So what's next? I cannot phantom a possibility of Tibetans in China ever going to gain independence if CTA continues in such a manner. It is time for them to really change their style, it has not work for 50 over years, pleading and urging China to change their mind... why would it suddenly change now? Just cause a few frustrated Tibetans burn themselves? China's probably saying "thank goodness" less problem for them.

Definitely the amount of energy they put to campaign against Dorje Shugden, could be spent on creating more schools, colleges, medical centers and better welfare for their own people in exile.

The Tibetans may be very good in politics (and in a very proud way, declare that they are by nature brash people) but they cannot lead. They are more programmed to eliminate enemies using political measures rather than actually making positive and constructive decisions that can actually help with the whole situation. If they were able to, they would not have lost Tibet to China and they would have been able to easily implement all the improvements that the 13th Dalai Lama has suggested to them and would have been strong and open minded by now, not being stuck to old conventions and barbaric methods that seem to permeate their decisions and actions. They know they are brash, and they are proud of it instead of taking a step back and change.

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 08:56:15 AM »
PLEASE TELL MR.THURMAN THAT THE TALIBANS ARE AN INVENTION OF HIS GOVERNAMENT,IF HE DOESN'T KNOW SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE ON THE WORLDNET.THANKS MAY TRUTH PREVAIL.PAOLO

vajratruth

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 09:29:15 AM »
PLEASE TELL MR.THURMAN THAT THE TALIBANS ARE AN INVENTION OF HIS GOVERNAMENT,IF HE DOESN'T KNOW SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE ON THE WORLDNET.THANKS MAY TRUTH PREVAIL.PAOLO

Paolo, I have heard the same. It seems the CIA created Saddam Hussein's army, trained and armed Pol Pot (Solath Sar) and also created the Talibans and a few others as proxies to fight their wars. The CIA has always seen China as a threat, initially as a communist regime and now as the new game-maker in global economics. Do you think the CIA is also using the CTA to oppose China? Just a thought. Hope not because ultimately it is the ordinary people who suffer. I cannot work out why the Tibetans seem to be putting more effort into creating animosity with China and destroying their own opportunities to gain true autonomy.

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 09:40:07 AM »
PLEASE TELL MR.THURMAN THAT THE TALIBANS ARE AN INVENTION OF HIS GOVERNAMENT,IF HE DOESN'T KNOW SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE ON THE WORLDNET.THANKS MAY TRUTH PREVAIL.PAOLO

Paolo, I have heard the same. It seems the CIA created Saddam Hussein's army, trained and armed Pol Pot (Solath Sar) and also created the Talibans and a few others as proxies to fight their wars. The CIA has always seen China as a threat, initially as a communist regime and now as the new game-maker in global economics. Do you think the CIA is also using the CTA to oppose China? Just a thought. Hope not because ultimately it is the ordinary people who suffer. I cannot work out why the Tibetans seem to be putting more effort into creating animosity with China and destroying their own opportunities to gain true autonomy.

To me, it is very obvious that CTA is being used by the US as a means to destroy China's peace and harmony. CTA, lacking any dignity, chose to play into the US's hands of trying to control China's power. I had actually expected more from the CTA, to at least have dignity to not  be used by others as if they're toys or as something for people's schemes. I am pretty sure that the CTA is well aware that they are being used by the US and Europe as an attempt to weaken China but it will not work mainly  because CTA isnt exactly great at bringing results.

vajratruth

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2013, 05:47:53 PM »
To me, it is very obvious that CTA is being used by the US as a means to destroy China's peace and harmony. CTA, lacking any dignity, chose to play into the US's hands of trying to control China's power. I had actually expected more from the CTA, to at least have dignity to not  be used by others as if they're toys or as something for people's schemes. I am pretty sure that the CTA is well aware that they are being used by the US and Europe as an attempt to weaken China but it will not work mainly  because CTA isnt exactly great at bringing results.

If the CTA knows it is being used as I am sure it is, at least the exiled Tibetan leadership should be smart enough to ensure that they are being used to their benefit, not their detriment. I am sure there have been considerable gains, just that the benefits have not filtered down to the Tibetans in exile themselves.

The US have been playing a low-risk and low-cost game. They do not have to host 130,000 refugees which comes with considerable baggage. So while there is an advantage to romance the Tibetan Cause, the West  have but look how quickly they are retreating in the face of China's growing influence. The CTA has been extremely foolish not to have realized after decades of piling hope upon forlorn hope, that the strategy of waiting for Western powers to regain Tibet's freedom for them, have not worked.

As the Tibetan leadership is so good at conspiracies, they should now enroll the help of the Shugden lamas who have successfully built friendly relations with China and are not without considerable influence, and "conspire" to get China back to the negotiating table for reconciliatory dialogue. But first, the ban needs to be brought down.

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 05:06:20 AM »


If the CTA knows it is being used as I am sure it is, at least the exiled Tibetan leadership should be smart enough to ensure that they are being used to their benefit, not their detriment. I am sure there have been considerable gains, just that the benefits have not filtered down to the Tibetans in exile themselves.

The US have been playing a low-risk and low-cost game. They do not have to host 130,000 refugees which comes with considerable baggage. So while there is an advantage to romance the Tibetan Cause, the West  have but look how quickly they are retreating in the face of China's growing influence. The CTA has been extremely foolish not to have realized after decades of piling hope upon forlorn hope, that the strategy of waiting for Western powers to regain Tibet's freedom for them, have not worked.

As the Tibetan leadership is so good at conspiracies, they should now enroll the help of the Shugden lamas who have successfully built friendly relations with China and are not without considerable influence, and "conspire" to get China back to the negotiating table for reconciliatory dialogue. But first, the ban needs to be brought down.

As long as the ban is being upheld, CTA will not be able to achieve anything but the US would keep trying. It is no secret that the US has been trying to dilute China's power for a very long time now. The US has been funding the CTA with that purpose alone, but since there was no results, they also funded falun gong to try and dilute China's power and stir up dissidents but needless to say, that did not work at all. My point is, the CTA should have more dignity than to be merely used as a tool to bring China down. They should have said no to the US aid and not use the money to try and weaken the Chinese. Real dialogue with the Chinese will never happen because the CTA hates the Chinese too much to even start a proper dialogue. Unless they can change this, nothing much can be done.

thor

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 12:41:25 PM »
Dear Vajratruth,

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama has never spoken about Dorje Shugden? That is so not true. Just go to YouTube and do a search on the Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. You will find that there is a long list of videos across many years of various public statements within Tibetan circles or to international audiences about Dorje Shugden. Therefore, it is not a conspiracy cooked up by certain quarters. The ban was started by the Dalai Lama himself and so, there is no conspiracy as you talk about.

However, I am not surprise about the Cholsum organisation and I find it ridiculous that money and energy was spent on enforcing the ban when there is so much pressing issues with regards to social development and even reinitiating talks with China. I would say it was a complete waste of money and a wrong direction for CTA to have pursued. It brought only damage and nothing beneficial at all. Hence, it is no wonder that Tibet lost its country and I would say it was due to the mismanagement of the Kashag/ the predecessor of CTA.

Even if the Dalai Lama had said anything against Dorje Shugden, it is not the government's duties to enforce it with the people. It is up to the individual practitioners to give Dorje Shugden up if they want to or continue with the practice. The government should not step in and enforce a religious ban and even putting up hitlists of people who practice Dorje Shugden and encourage shops to deny groceries to Dorje Shugden practitioners. The very fact that Cholsum has chosen to do this shows us that they are still very archaic in thinking and as what Big Uncle had said, the time and money in that could have been better spent in winning independence from China

Precisely.

A) a government who heeds every word and suggestion of the nation's spiritual despot, flying in the face of logic, acceptable conduct, and sheer ignorance of the nation's more pressing issues. Who does not represent their constitution unbiasedly. Who only looks out for the welfare of their people who support a given religious view. Who steps on those that don't.

OR

B) a government who conducts itself like a proper government.

Isn't it crystal clear? Now you know the real reason why the Tibetans didn't get their country back.

Ensapa

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Re: The Cholsum Conspiracy
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 04:52:29 AM »
Precisely.

A) a government who heeds every word and suggestion of the nation's spiritual despot, flying in the face of logic, acceptable conduct, and sheer ignorance of the nation's more pressing issues. Who does not represent their constitution unbiasedly. Who only looks out for the welfare of their people who support a given religious view. Who steps on those that don't.

OR

B) a government who conducts itself like a proper government.

Isn't it crystal clear? Now you know the real reason why the Tibetans didn't get their country back.

We gotta look at things from their angle as well: basically there is little to no hope for them to get Tibet back now, isnt there? So with no hope and nothing that they can do, what else to focus on? Doing something that they can do: uphold ridiculous religious edicts that no government in their right mind would do as a way to tell everyone that they suck at doing what they are supposed to do: governing a group of people. In many societies, governments and countries, archaic methods and traditions are discarded over time when they lose relevance. Only CTA is keeping them due to their insecurity which is a very sad thing to observe.