Author Topic: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006  (Read 7214 times)

vajralight

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Ofcourse TGIE had to use the occasion to push the anti Dorje Shugden agenda with ridiculous examples. Many great Gelugpa Geshe's (and DS practitioners ) were present, including the present Ganden Trisur.

First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference, Video 4 Small | Large



Vajra

WisdomBeing

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 04:11:48 AM »
Thanks for this video, Vajralight.

It is quite ironic that this conference which seems to be focused on the preservation of the Geden lineages and traditions includes a speech on cutting the core of the Gelug practice - its Dharma Protector tradition of Dorje Shugden.

Lobsang Nyima, the Minister of Religion and the first speaker, said "why we lost tibet is because of disharmony within our society." This is probably the only truth in this whole speech.

i did like that he said at the end, "please forget anything i have said that is not good" in which case i hope the audience will forget everything he said against Dorje Shugden!

Samdhong Rinpoche spoke next and said that he was not speaking in his official capacity but in his personal capacity as a simple Gelug monk. He didn't speak against Dorje Shugden but i felt that he looked very sad - Samdhong Rinpoche is well-known as a strong Dorje Shugden practitioner prior to the ban and having to speak against his practice on previous occasions must take a chunk out of him.

Let's hope that the great Geden traditions are not lost because of politics and wrong views and the ban on Dorje Shugden practice is lifted as soon as possible as Dorje Shugden's purpose is to preserve Tsongkhapa's teachings.
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vajralight

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 08:07:46 AM »
At 7m24 in video 13 the then Ganden Tripa, now Ganden Trisur starts to speak. What a fantastic speech !! He so focused on what is essential and demonstrated so much confidence in Lama Tsongkhapa's lineage. How wonderful ! Where all the other Lamas were talking like the Ganden lineage is on the verge of dying, he said that as long as people practise the basic three lineages of Guhyasamaya, Chakrasambara and Vajrabhairava there is no problem, even if some lineages will die out one will still be able to attain enlightenment.

First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference, Video 13 Small | Large

video 13

First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference, Video 14 Small | Large

video 14 Gansden Trisur continues...up to 1m05


Vajra


jessicajameson

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 09:53:48 AM »
I thought that the speech by Lobsang Nyima, the Minister of Religion, was not that bad. He said what he had to say, and then he ended it with, "if i have said anything good, please accept it" and "please forget anything i have said that is not good". It's diplomatic enough and leaves it to the listeners to decide. On that note, I echo what @WisdomBeing wrote, we can forget about everything that he said about Dorje Shugden.

The most blatant lie from Lobsang Nyima's speech, which must be pointed out, was how he mentioned that the CTA doesn't discriminate against Shugdenpas. What a load of -. Anyone in their right mind, who has read a little about the Shugden ban, know that Shugdenpas are not only discriminated but they're ostracised by the local Tibetan community. Why? They believe that practicing DS will shorten HHDL's life.

The CTA does nothing to protect Shugdenpas, but in some ways encourage it! They put up pictures of Shugdenpas together with their address, full name and where they work around the Tibetan settlements. Why would you do that if you don't want anything to be done? How does pointing out Shugdenpas not be a form of discrimination?

Whoever who hasn't yet watched this video, MUST!
The Dalai Lama and Human Rights Small | Large


Big Uncle

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 03:58:47 PM »
Thank you Vajralight. I only loved the Gaden Trisur's (he is retired from office now) speech because he didn't speak on political terms and he was really addressing the preservation of the Gaden tradition in regards to the sacred Tantras. There are 3 Tantric systems that was propagated by Lama Tsongkhapa and the Gaden Trisur  and he spoke about them and stressed on the importance of perserving these precious lineages.

This is so beautiful and it would be far better if the monasteries focussed their attentions on preserving these lineages via taking care and ensuring that lineage holders bestow initiation upon the younger monks. This is far more productive than talking and talking about stamping out Dorje Shugden practitioners. I heard from my monk friend that Guhyasamaja is know as the King of all Tantras. The survival of this Tantra is of utmost importance because if it dies out, the other Tantras will die out as well. See, this would be a far better cause to work on instead of a silly little ban on Dorje Shugden.

Here's a rundown of the Guhyasamaja Tantra :-

Thangka of Guhyasamaja in union with his consort Sparshavajra, 17th century, Rubin Museum of Art, New York

The Guhyasamaja Tantra (Sanskrit; Tantra of the Secret Community) is one of the most important scriptures of Esoteric Buddhism. In its fullest form, it consists of seventeen chapters, though a separate "explanatory tantra" (vyakhyatantra) known as the Later Tantra (Uttaratantra) is sometimes considered to be its eighteenth chapter. Many scholars believe that the original core of the work consisted of the first twelve chapters, with chapters thirteen to seventeen being added later as explanatory material.

In India, it was classified as a Yoga or Mah?yoga Tantra. In Tibet it is considered an Unexcelled Yoga Tantra (rnal ’byor bla med rgyud). It develops traditions found in earlier scriptures such as the Sarva-tathagata-tattva-samgraha but is focused to a greater extent on the antinomian aspects characteristic of the later Buddhist Tantras. It survives in Sanskrit manuscripts and in Tibetan and Chinese translation.

According to one tradition, the Guhyasamaja Tantra was taught for the first time by the Buddha in the form of Vajradhara to Indrabhuti the King of Oddiyana, also called King Dza.

As with most tantras, there are different traditions and transmissions. Perhaps the oldest surviving lineage is the Jñanapada Tradition (ye shes zhabs lugs), which goes back to Buddhasrijñana (late 8th century). The most important historically is the Arya tradition (gsang 'dus 'phags lugs) which is based on commentaries attributed to Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, and Candrakirti. 'Gos Lotsawa Khug pa lhas btsas originated a transmission in Tibet, as did Marpa Lotsawa. The Sakya tradition received both transmissions. Tsongkhapa, founder of the Gelug tradition, considered the Esoteric Community to be the most important of the tantras and used the Arya tradition as a template for interpreting all the other tantric traditions.

Iconography

In the practice of the Arya Tradition, the central deity of the Guhyasamaja is blue-black Aksobhyavajra, a form of Aksobhya, one of the five tathagathas (pañcatathagata), sometimes called the dhyani buddhas. Aksobhyavajra holds a vajra and bell (ghanta) in his first two hands, and other hands hold the symbols of the four other tathagathas: wheel of Vairocana and lotus of Amitabha in his rights, and gem of Ratnasambhava and sword of Amoghasiddhi in his lefts. The mandala consists of thirty-two deities in all.

In the Jñanapada tradition, the central deity is yellow Mañjuvajra, a form of Manjushri. The deity has three faces—the right one is white and red one on the left—and six arms. The three faces may represent the three main channels of the subtle body, the three stages of purification of the mind or the illusory body, light, and their union. Mañjuvajra holds in his hands a sword and a book, and two of his other hand a bow and arrow represent skillful means (upaya).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 06:11:19 PM by Big Uncle »

Ensapa

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 05:03:58 AM »
At 7m24 in video 13 the then Ganden Tripa, now Ganden Trisur starts to speak. What a fantastic speech !! He so focused on what is essential and demonstrated so much confidence in Lama Tsongkhapa's lineage. How wonderful ! Where all the other Lamas were talking like the Ganden lineage is on the verge of dying, he said that as long as people practise the basic three lineages of Guhyasamaya, Chakrasambara and Vajrabhairava there is no problem, even if some lineages will die out one will still be able to attain enlightenment.

First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference, Video 13
video 13

First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference, Video 14
video 14 Gansden Trisur continues...up to 1m05


Vajra


In video 14, it is mentioned of Panchen Sonam Dragpa's works on the commentaries on the 5 tenets of Buddhism but only the Vinaya transmission survived while the others were lost. However, his text and transmission on Guhyasamaja's generation and completion stages were intact as they were preserved in Gyuto Tantric College. As comparison he also mentioned how someone went all the way to preserve Lelung Shepay Dorje's work, all 20 volumes of it and even went to Tibet to retrive them. I find this part interesting because by now you'd expect someone would actually go back to Tibet and retrive the text and transmissions. But what I do like is how Panchen Sonam Dragpa is being mentioned. It is a nod of approval to Dorje Shugden and to remind them who Dorje Shugden really is.


vajrastorm

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 05:02:36 AM »
It is so characteristic of CTA to use every opportunity available to hit out at Dorje Shugden and his practitioners. This Conference' main topic is the launching of Lelong Rinpoche's project to preserve the initiations and transmission lineages of the Gaden tradition. Yet, the Minister of Religion must use this occasion to lash out at Shugden and Shugden practitioners for causing disharmony in the Tibetan community. There are so many distortions about CTA not discriminating against the Shugden practitioners, about their helping them even as far away as in Taiwan! Also, the same false and unsubstantiated accusations are hurled at Shugden practitioners: that they work for the Chinese Government and that their main motivation is wealth and money!

Samdhong Rinpoche is to be credited with having persuaded Lelong Rinpoche to start the project of preserving the initiations and transmission lineages of the Gelug/Gaden lineage.  I wonder if the project , started in 2006, has been completed. Samdhong Rinpoche did not say anything about Dorje Shugden here, and he started his speech by saying that he was giving his personal view here.

As WB has pointed out, it is out of keeping for Lobsang Nyima to lash out and condemn Shugden here. It would have been more 'appropriate ' to bring in Shugden here as the Protector whose whole purpose of arising as a Dharma Protector was to preserve  and spread the teachings of Je Tsongkapa's lineage. What is the point of stressing here Je Tsongkapa's "authentic blending of Sutra and Tantra" in one  breath and , in the next breath, say that the negativity of Shugden was causing the disharmony which has resulted in Tibet losing its cause! More  harm than good will come from such a distortion of reality!

DharmaSpace

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 12:14:55 PM »
Who created the disharmony CTA of course by enforcing this ban. IF CTA in its infinite wisdom were to dare to try to lift the ban, tibetans will once again look at one another as brothers and sisters once again.

And yet this speech by Losang Nyima is for everyone to see. Create the ban and blame on external forces.

China has so much money to give away yes, but to support Dorje Shudgen no way, we all have to raise funds for whatever project we want to engage in. Je Pabongka and Trijang Dorje Chang should have attended such an important meeting for the survival pof the Gaden tradition they were previously the Oral Gaden Tradition. 

Ensapa

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Re: Future of Ganden lineage - First Geden Phacho Bhucho Conference 2006
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 03:57:08 AM »
Who created the disharmony CTA of course by enforcing this ban. IF CTA in its infinite wisdom were to dare to try to lift the ban, tibetans will once again look at one another as brothers and sisters once again.

And yet this speech by Losang Nyima is for everyone to see. Create the ban and blame on external forces.

China has so much money to give away yes, but to support Dorje Shudgen no way, we all have to raise funds for whatever project we want to engage in. Je Pabongka and Trijang Dorje Chang should have attended such an important meeting for the survival pof the Gaden tradition they were previously the Oral Gaden Tradition.


Ever since the Dalai Lama has imposed the ban, he has been handpicking abbots and other powerful positions in monasteries that does not go against his Dorje Shugden ban. But some of these abbots are not doing their jobs properly in the monastery and as a result the monks are living in a worse condition and there is not much learning going on in these monasteries (here's an example http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1927.0) and as a result, the Ganden tradition has been weakened and diluted with other issues and some Gelugs are ignoring Pabongkha's advice to focus only on the Gelug tradition and they study the Nyingma termas....