Lamdre Teachings by HH Sakya Trizin

[Lineageholder]

Dear friends,

This is interesting - HH Sakya Trizin will be giving Lamdre teachings and leading retreat in 2013. 


http://www.hevajra.org/cost-information


The first lineage Guru in Lamdre, the core teaching of the Sakya tradition, is Mahasiddha Virupa, otherwise known as Mahasiddha Biwawa, one of the previous incarnations of Dorje Shugden.  I suppose this is why Dorje Shugden has such a strong connection with the Sakya tradition - also considering one of his other previous incarnations was Sakya Pandita.

So, even though HH Sakya Trizin has publicly declared that Dorje Shugden is a worldly deity, he's going to be giving teachings from his previous incarnation!  If Dorje Shugden is a worldly deity, how can Mahasiddha Virupa's teachings and lineage be valid?  That would invalidate the whole Lamdre and with it, the Sakya tradition itself.  So, not only does holding Dorje Shugden to be a worldly spirit invalidate the Gelugpa tradition, it also invalidates the Sakyas.

Contradictions abound in this controversy and none of it makes any sense.

[thaimonk]

Lineageholder and friends,

First of all, Sakya Trizin now does not consider Dorje Shugden as a enlightened being. He believes he is a worldly god therefore it would automatically negate that Dorje Shugden's previous lives would be Virupa and Sakya Pandita. Therefore he would not believe Dorje Shugden has anything to do with being Lamdre's first lineage guru and not an issue with validity of the tradition or Sakyapas. I understand what you are saying completely, but this is how they think now. I know it is illogical but what is logical in the Tibetan world of the CTA? What is logical about the ban? What is logical to invalidate Trijang Rinpoche?  To enforce a ban against Shugden, they will have to automatically change many historical and tantric facts into something untrue. Lies are always 'validated' by further lies. If we Dorje Shugden practitioners do not speak up and tell the truth, then we allow the lies to become the truth. The Chinese have a saying, if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. We have to make sure this does not happen by collecting together here and speaking against the lies.

It is too bad on so many levels Sakya Trizin has to speak this way. He has been unmblemished for many decades and this speaking against Shugden suddenly becomes political. I guess CTA has ways to pressure great lamas into many acts these days.


This is Sakya Trizin clearly saying Shugden is a worldy spirit not practiced by Sakyas in any great manner in the past. Shugden was an insignificant minor propitiated worldly god in the Sakya temple. And in the past Sakyas had a small chapel to him, but many throneholders of Sakya were against the worship of Shugden according to this video and later did not practice at all. This is what he is saying in the video I am told by Tibetan friends. Now he is not practiced by the Sakyas at all:

His Eminence Sakya Gongma Rinpoche on Dholgyal (Shugden)	Small | Large

Before the controversy, I greatly admired and respected Sakya Trizin. After he spoke out against Shugden I felt bad. Many years ago I had a chance to take an initiation with him as many Gelugs were going, last minute, I decided not to go and until today I am glad I did not attend.

I have a Sakya monk friend from Sakya Monastery in Tibet. He said Shugden is very much practiced in his monastery until today and it was integral. He himself worships Shugden with full faith until today and does not attend any teachings by Sakya Trizin anymore.

[Ensapa]

The current sakya trinzin, it seems, has bowed down to the pressure of the CTA to speak out agains Dorje Shugden. If you do not know yet, the father of the current sakya trinzin is actually considered to be Dorje Shugden's emanation. Dorje Shugden has reincarnated as a few sakya trinzins before in the sakya school and this is recorded in their history and prayers but since the ban, all of these evidence has been removed from their canonical texts or simply they made it inaccessible to foreigners but luckily for us Dorje Shugden History has preserved the evidence - and in english: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1871.html I think it is sad that even the sakya trinzin has to bow down to the CTA and deny their own lineage and blessings and the bigger question would be what is going to happen to them when the ban is lifted.

[Zach]

Lineageholder and friends,

First of all, Sakya Trizin now does not consider Dorje Shugden as a enlightened being. He believes he is a worldly god therefore it would automatically negate that Dorje Shugden's previous lives would be Virupa and Sakya Pandita. Therefore he would not believe Dorje Shugden has anything to do with being Lamdre's first lineage guru and not an issue with validity of the tradition or Sakyapas. I understand what you are saying completely, but this is how they think now. I know it is illogical but what is logical in the Tibetan world of the CTA? What is logical about the ban? What is logical to invalidate Trijang Rinpoche?  To enforce a ban against Shugden, they will have to automatically change many historical and tantric facts into something untrue. Lies are always 'validated' by further lies. If we Dorje Shugden practitioners do not speak up and tell the truth, then we allow the lies to become the truth. The Chinese have a saying, if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. We have to make sure this does not happen by collecting together here and speaking against the lies.

It is too bad on so many levels Sakya Trizin has to speak this way. He has been unmblemished for many decades and this speaking against Shugden suddenly becomes political. I guess CTA has ways to pressure great lamas into many acts these days.


This is Sakya Trizin clearly saying Shugden is a worldy spirit not practiced by Sakyas in any great manner in the past. Shugden was an insignificant minor propitiated worldly god in the Sakya temple. And in the past Sakyas had a small chapel to him, but many throneholders of Sakya were against the worship of Shugden according to this video and later did not practice at all. This is what he is saying in the video I am told by Tibetan friends. Now he is not practiced by the Sakyas at all:


His Eminence Sakya Gongma Rinpoche on Dholgyal (Shugden)

Before the controversy, I greatly admired and respected Sakya Trizin. After he spoke out against Shugden I felt bad. Many years ago I had a chance to take an initiation with him as many Gelugs were going, last minute, I decided not to go and until today I am glad I did not attend.

I have a Sakya monk friend from Sakya Monastery in Tibet. He said Shugden is very much practiced in his monastery until today and it was integral. He himself worships Shugden with full faith until today and does not attend any teachings by Sakya Trizin anymore.

I have the feeling that HH Sakya Trinzin still holds him as enlightened but says otherwise, If Trijang Chocktrul merly disagreeing with HH Dalai lama was a cause for his life to be threatened by many groups then it would cause a civil war amongst the exile community if Sakya Trinzin Rubbished HH Dalai lama position.

Another indication is that If Dorje Shugden really was a worldly being then there would not be a single Sakya past or present who would hold him as otherwise but we know this is very much not the case.

[WisdomBeing]

I just wonder if Sakya Trizin was pressured to speak out. He could have chosen to not speak out and just remain silent on this outwardly Gelug issue, yet he chooses to make such negative statements on what we know contradicts history. As Thaimonk says, it does not reflect well on Sakya Trizin at all.

As the Sakya Trizins are supposed to be the same mind continuum, the current Sakya Trizin is directly contradicting his previous incarnations such as Dragshul Trinley Rinchen (1871-1935) – the 39th Sakya Trizin (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/great-masters/enlightened-lamas-series/dragshul-trinley-rinchen-1871-1935-the-39th-sakya-trizin/). This article event lists the supreme heads of the Sakya Lineage who viewed Dorje Shugden as an enlightened being:

30th Sakya Throneholder Sonam Rinchen (1705-1741)
31st Throneholder Sachen Kunga Lodro (1729-1783)
33rd Throneholder Padma Dudul Wangchug (1792-1853)
35th Throneholder Tashi Rinchen (1824-1865)
37th Throneholder Kunga Nyingpo (1850-1899)
39th Throneholder Dragshul Thinley Rinchen (1871-1936)

I wonder if it is only Dorje Shugden practitioners who see the lack of logic and common sense behind all these declarations.

[Big Uncle]

Dorje Shugden is eternally connected to the Sakyas. In the kangsol, he is invited to come from Sakya Mug Chung and Dorje Shugden is also first enthroned as a Dharma Protector by the earlier Sakya Patriarchs. It is really sad that the current Sakya Trizin has denounced this practice. I am really not sure if the Sakya Trizin was arm-twisted to do this though. Perhaps, he has his own higher reasons to follow in the Dalai Lama's plans for Dorje Shugden.

I am saying this in open consideration that the Dalai Lama must have a higher reason for the ban. To be honest, I am not so concerned with the hypocrisy of the Lamdre teachings. I just wonder what these great Lamas would do once the ban is lifted. Would they issue similar statements or just follow with their own disapproval of Dorje Shugden. Well, to be honest, I think they don't know how much they are missing out on Dorje Shugden. However, I do recall Dagom Rinpoche's anecdote of what the Karmapa said about how Dorje Shugden would be worshipped by everyone. I can't seem to connect that prophecy and the current ban on Dorje Shugden.

[Ensapa]

Dorje Shugden is eternally connected to the Sakyas. In the kangsol, he is invited to come from Sakya Mug Chung and Dorje Shugden is also first enthroned as a Dharma Protector by the earlier Sakya Patriarchs. It is really sad that the current Sakya Trizin has denounced this practice. I am really not sure if the Sakya Trizin was arm-twisted to do this though. Perhaps, he has his own higher reasons to follow in the Dalai Lama's plans for Dorje Shugden.

I am saying this in open consideration that the Dalai Lama must have a higher reason for the ban. To be honest, I am not so concerned with the hypocrisy of the Lamdre teachings. I just wonder what these great Lamas would do once the ban is lifted. Would they issue similar statements or just follow with their own disapproval of Dorje Shugden. Well, to be honest, I think they don't know how much they are missing out on Dorje Shugden. However, I do recall Dagom Rinpoche's anecdote of what the Karmapa said about how Dorje Shugden would be worshipped by everyone. I can't seem to connect that prophecy and the current ban on Dorje Shugden.

The worrying thing about how the Sakyas implemented the ban is that they are 'really' implemented as opposed to how it was implemented by the Dalai Lama. Dorje Shugden still exists in the history of the Gelugs, but apparently his name no longer exists in the texts of the sakyas. His name does not appear at all in their texts but fortunately someone does have a copy of the unmodified texts translated and preserved and we can see that the Sakyas have a very long and solid connection with Dorje Shugden before the ban.

On the prophecy, I do see  that happening because all it takes now is for the Dalai Lama to say that Dorje Shugden is good and he was mistaken to place the ban on Dorje Shugden before, and urge all lineages to take up his practice for the sake of uniting Tibet. When that happens, all the traditions will have no choice but to change their views on Dorje Shugden and the best part is, all 4 lineages already have imprints of Dorje Shugden lying in their traditions.

[Mana]

One day soon in our lifetime we will see a change in stance against Dorje Shugden. All those who blasphemed against this great being will come across the need to apologize and re-enter his practice and for some newly enter. The day of reckoning will be upon us.

We must be strong and continue our works on making Shugden grow throughout the world. We should not be lax and sink down into the thought of let someone else take care of it.

Every effort can be used to bring Shugden to the greater masses.
We must put our faith where our action is. We must bring Shugden to the greater masses no matter how difficult it may be at this time. Truth is on our side. The power of truth cannot be destroyed nor fade.

It will take a dual combined effort of men and 'gods' to bring the unjust ban down. One alone cannot accomplish this. Stay strong, stay determined, stay alert and stay focused.

If we continue our social media works and awareness, we will expose the untruth propounded by the unjust CTA.

CTA will regret their ban and damage toward the lineage of Dorje Shugden.

Mana

[Ensapa]

One day soon in our lifetime we will see a change in stance against Dorje Shugden. All those who blasphemed against this great being will come across the need to apologize and re-enter his practice and for some newly enter. The day of reckoning will be upon us.

We must be strong and continue our works on making Shugden grow throughout the world. We should not be lax and sink down into the thought of let someone else take care of it.

Every effort can be used to bring Shugden to the greater masses.
We must put our faith where our action is. We must bring Shugden to the greater masses no matter how difficult it may be at this time. Truth is on our side. The power of truth cannot be destroyed nor fade.

It will take a dual combined effort of men and 'gods' to bring the unjust ban down. One alone cannot accomplish this. Stay strong, stay determined, stay alert and stay focused.

If we continue our social media works and awareness, we will expose the untruth propounded by the unjust CTA.

CTA will regret their ban and damage toward the lineage of Dorje Shugden.

Mana

thank you so much for your words of encouragement, mana. These are amazing and powerful words indeed. The ban will go down and I want to be part of the people who would bring this ban down and it will go down. Why? simply because so much people can benefit from Dorje Shugden if they seek his help. Samsara is already in a bad state and all living beings in it need so much help from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, but only Dorje Shugden has the power to save everyone from their own negative karma and projections and lead them to enlightenment. It would be fun to see writers such as robert thurman and george dreyfus eat their own word when the ban comes down, or how would sakya trinzin react and apologize. That day is coming nearer and nearer as we speak.