Dalai Lama calls for good ties between India, China

[WisdomBeing]

Yes, China and India should have good ties but it's not just these two countries which need to have good ties. It's about time this century becomes one of dialogue and not bloodshed. Let's not even look at huge countries but start at home - how about having good ties within the Tibetan community - between Dorje Shugden practitioners and non-Shugden practitioners? Firstly, the Dalai Lama should have a dialogue with Dorje Shugden practitioners and then lift the ban so that he can usher in a new era of peace and Dharma growth. It's time.


Dalai Lama calls for good ties between India, China
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Dalai-Lama-calls-for-good-ties-between-India--China/1064592/
Jaipur, Fri Jan 25 2013

Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama on Thursday urged for "good relations" between India and China. He said the two countries need to develop trust.

While talking about global politics, he conceded that he has retired from his political role. He also talked about the challenges of the 21st century with increase in population and widening gap between the rich and the poor. "The 20th century has been one of bloodshed, of violence. Let the 21st century be a century of dialogue," he said.

[Big Uncle]

Yes, this is very true. One thing I have noticed is that the CTA refuses to host any dialogue with the Shugden party and has hardly addressed the issues with them save for a few statements by Samdhong Rinpoche. I did noticed from the article commentaries on this website that the Dalai Lama seemed to have tone down on his disapproval of Dorje Shugden. I wonder if this is leading towards the lifting of the ban. I am hopeful but I cannot tell for sure that this is the trend.

With the institutionalized segregation of Dorje Shugden pracititoners, I wonder what the CTA would do when the ban gets lifted? Apologize and make up? Offer a large apologetic puja to Dorje Shugden? What about the many Dorje Shugden lamas that they tried to demonize? What would they do about that? If the ban does come down, it is going to be a cataclysmic shift in Tibetan society once more mirroring the shift when the ban was first implemented. I am not clairvoyant but I wonder if this is ever going to happen and is the CTA ready to handle this shift.

[vajratruth]

The last thing the world needs is another war and the India-China border has been a potential flashpoint since 1960s. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan in exile's presence in India is most definitely an issue and in fact, India continues to host His Holiness and the Tibetan refugees at increasingly great costs to its relationship with China. Sikkim where the Karmapa's Rumtek Monastery is located might prove to be another reason for Sino-Indian conflict. India sees China as having set some designs to assume sovereignty over Sikkim and placing the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley in Rumtek is part of China's scheme. The Indian government's support is  with the other Karmapa, Thaye Dorje and the  question of who occupies Rumtek has become an agenda in Sino-Indian relationship. Therefore the Karmapa issue is something the Dalai Lama and CTA must smooth over if indeed they truly want India and China to have good ties. Instead they have unfortunately and perhaps irreversibly engaged themselves in the controversy by taking sides and in that way, lose the opportunity to be the arbiter between the opposing parties.

Another point that must be said is this. If the Dalai Lama is concerned about peace, then His Holiness should prevail upon the CTA not to maintain policies that could divide the Tibetan people and provide a political  opportunity for India and China to use as a platform in order to engage one another. The Tibetan government in exile has referred to all Shugden practitioners as Chinese spies and traitors although they know that to be patently untrue. China in turn has supported the Shugden practice perhaps to spite the CTA while the CTA continues to persecute Shugden worshippers on Indian soil with India looking away in denial and by that way, support the CTA. The Shugden affair is yet another unresolved Tibetan factor that could draw China and India into a conflict.

[Big Uncle]

The last thing the world needs is another war and the India-China border has been a potential flashpoint since 1960s. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan in exile's presence in India is most definitely an issue and in fact, India continues to host His Holiness and the Tibetan refugees at increasingly great costs to its relationship with China. Sikkim where the Karmapa's Rumtek Monastery is located might prove to be another reason for Sino-Indian conflict. India sees China as having set some designs to assume sovereignty over Sikkim and placing the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley in Rumtek is part of China's scheme. The Indian government's support is  with the other Karmapa, Thaye Dorje and the  question of who occupies Rumtek has become an agenda in Sino-Indian relationship. Therefore the Karmapa issue is something the Dalai Lama and CTA must smooth over if indeed they truly want India and China to have good ties. Instead they have unfortunately and perhaps irreversibly engaged themselves in the controversy by taking sides and in that way, lose the opportunity to be the arbiter between the opposing parties.

Another point that must be said is this. If the Dalai Lama is concerned about peace, then His Holiness should prevail upon the CTA not to maintain policies that could divide the Tibetan people and provide a political  opportunity for India and China to use as a platform in order to engage one another. The Tibetan government in exile has referred to all Shugden practitioners as Chinese spies and traitors although they know that to be patently untrue. China in turn has supported the Shugden practice perhaps to spite the CTA while the CTA continues to persecute Shugden worshippers on Indian soil with India looking away in denial and by that way, support the CTA. The Shugden affair is yet another unresolved Tibetan factor that could draw China and India into a conflict.

Well, there has always been conflict at the borders between China and India. It always seem to threaten to boil over into an all out war but it has not. In today's world, I don't think that waging war as in the last century would possible. China is not that stupid and India is just too big for China to invade anyway. I think China would rather gather their resources to have an economic battle. I think in the 21st Century, it would not be a war of nations but a war of economies.

China was very smart to have open up her economy to the world and shrewdly gathered her strength to become the economic power house that she is today. Even India, with its massive population and democracy cannot compete with China, economically. Hence, it would behoove China and India to understand each other and build economic ties. Instead of treating each other suspiciously, it would be better to develop economic ties and settle the long standing dispute over the borders once and for all. I am not an expert of the Indo-Chinese relations but I read that this is one of the main areas of dispute - their borders.

On the matter of CTA, China has already won because I believe that the Indian government bowed to pressure from Beijing to downgrade the status and name of TGIE - Tibetan Government In Exile to CTA - Central Tibetan Administration. India had been very kind to the Tibetan refugees to allow the Tibetans to remain in India and even prosper on her lands. So, instead of making more trouble, the CTA should not exert any more pressure on India and in fact try to talk to China via the various international channels that the Dalai Lama had so kind established to re-start negotiations about Tibet's future. The chance is slim that China would accept but they should try and the cumbersome ban on Dorje Shugden should be lifted especially on the secular side in governmental institutions and so forth. Leave the ban to the monasteries and do not create more causes for China to reject fresh talks. That's how I see the whole picture for India, China and the CTA.

[beggar]

I echo what WisdomBeing has to say on this - let's not try to save the world when things are falling apart "at home". What good is it to encourage good relations between the two largest countries in the world, when we can't even manage to maintain good relations within the small Tibetan exiled community of 100,000 - it is but a dent in the combined populations of India and China, almost 2 billion people!

Another more pressing concern is this: that while the CTA are busy denying the most basic human rights and freedoms of their own people, they fail to realise that they are inciting civil strife and trouble within the very country that has so kindly offered them refuge and land for so many years. So much violence has broken out from this ban - people and homes being attacked, monasteries being split apart, statues being broken and desecrated in public... Let's not even go into the violence that has broken out in Sikkhim, over Rumtek Monastery, among the karma kagyus. How will the Indians look upon such behaviour from a group of refugees that they have extended their already very populated country to? Doesn't India have enough trouble to deal with themselves?

Then, there's the 'trouble' that the Tibetans are causing to China too (well, perceived that way by the Chinese). Neither the Tibetan government nor the Dalai Lama have responded strongly enough against the self-immolations and insulting comments about China's tactics over recent decades have NOT endeared them to the Chinese government.

So the CTA find themselves in a precarious position - they're already not in China's good books, regarded by them as troublemakers (whether or not this is true is subject to opinion of course, but China has certainly held that view all this time). They're also now at the risk of p**sing off their host country India with all the shenanigans going on within Indian soil.

Oh, and don't forget that they may well be p**sing off the rest of the world too, getting upset over the fact that other countries don't want to support their fight against China (see this article about the Tibetans getting petulant over the British refusal to meet the Dalai Lama: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/)

Looks like it's not going to be easy for the CTA to get more friends on their side. They'd better tread carefully now!

[Ensapa]

Note that this message is from the Dalai Lama and not the sikyong. Messages like these should be conveyed by the sikyong to the Indian government to show them how much they value peace in the region and between 2 countries. But obviously, the CTA is not interested in that at all. They are only interested in their own agendas. The Dalai Lama has to do the CTA's work for them. How embarrassing. How sad that the CTA is allowing the Dalai Lama to work for them and make statements when Lobsang Sanggay should speak up in messages like these. How sad is it!

[WisdomBeing]

That's why i have always said that the CTA is a toothless kitten - not even a tiger. I have come to the point where i don't know what is the CTA's agenda. If they have an agenda, what actually is it?? Their only apparent agenda is to carry out whatever HH the Dalai Lama says even though the Dalai Lama has stepped down as the secular/political head, but like a young teenager still hiding behind their mother's skirt, the CTA hasn't proven to come out with any independent statements which would give anyone of their constituents confidence in their administration! I must say i do feel sorry for Dr Lobsang Sangay. It must be tough to look so incompetent.

[Ensapa]

That's why i have always said that the CTA is a toothless kitten - not even a tiger. I have come to the point where i don't know what is the CTA's agenda. If they have an agenda, what actually is it?? Their only apparent agenda is to carry out whatever HH the Dalai Lama says even though the Dalai Lama has stepped down as the secular/political head, but like a young teenager still hiding behind their mother's skirt, the CTA hasn't proven to come out with any independent statements which would give anyone of their constituents confidence in their administration! I must say i do feel sorry for Dr Lobsang Sangay. It must be tough to look so incompetent.

The point is CTA has not been doing anything constructive at all that will benefit their own people or that is actually something constructive. What is the use of entering dialogue with every other country on how to get Tibet back when you cannot even make peace or show your gratitude with India? What is the use of having a dialog with the rest of the world but not China to get back Tibet? What is the point really? to show that you are doing something? Why has Lobsang Sanggay not been doing his duties as the prime minister, as the spokesperson for his country? It is his duty to make statements like that, not the Dalai Lama. CTA should NEVER take Tibet back. They simply are just not ready in any aspect at all.

[prodorjeshugden]

The Dalai Lama calling for good ties between India and China? He should call for good ties between himself and Shugdenners!
Anyone who practices Dorje Shugden is subjected to harsh treatment and sometimes they face prosecution. All these are in part due to the Dalai Lama who encouraged such acts. And behind all that he is asking for good ties Between India and China?

I really hope that the Dalai Lama will change his stance on Dorje Shugden and may everyone Shugdenners and non Shugdenners unite as one.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

It's been three years since this discussion thread started. Ties between India and China are fine and as of now there does not seem to be any major disputes between the two countries. India is being a graceful host to the Tibetans who have fled their country when the Chinese took control of Tibet. However some of the Tibetans living in exile in Tibetans settlement camps in India are being persecuted by Tibetans who have been provoked by their ruling government. There is much disharmony and segregation because of the ban on Dorje Shugden practice imposed by the CTA.
Please lift the illegal ban on Shugden practice soon so that Tibetans can unite and live harmoniously again.

[grandmapele]

International relationship between China and India will be fine and is. The Dalai Lama is always talking of peace and unity to everyone else and not paying enough attention to how to achieve that within the Tibetans. The call should apply to all regardless. So, the way is to lift the Shugden ban.

[pgdharma]

It is irony that the Dalai Lama can call for good relationships between India and China when he can’t even called for good relationships between Dorje Shugden practitioners and those against Dorje Shugden. Has the CTA done anything at all to create peace and harmony within their community? At least China and India has good ties and China is opened towards religious freedom and Dorje Shugden.
 
The Dalai Lama has always promoted peace, harmony, love and compassion. Please walk the talk and promote what you preached within the Shugden practitioners and those against.

[SabS]

I agree with pgdharma that "It is irony that the Dalai Lama can call for good relationships between India and China when he can’t even called for good relationships between Dorje Shugden practitioners and those against Dorje Shugden". However I wonder if the Dalai Lama did not see this as an opportunity too. If India is on good relations with China and India being close to the Dalai Lama, a good word could be put to China of the Dalai Lama's wish for the much awaited dialogue. "While talking about global politics, he conceded that he has retired from his political role". The Dalai Lama conceded his retirement from politics and hence obviously not a threat to China's politic or right of rule.

Personally I think the Dalai Lama had long given up on CTA as a government for the people and had stepped in to represent the Tibetans-In-Exile as the Sikyong's words don't carry any clout politically nor economically. All the Sikyong had done is to incite Anti-Dorje Shugden activities to cover-up his government's failure and gratification of his and his cronies' pockets. It is just illogical to blame the failure of a country on a religious practice. Come to think of it, is it a compliment that Dorje Shugden practice is that powerful? Since the Dalai Lama had given the CTA an opening by declaring that Dorje Shugden does not harm his life nor the Tibetan Freedom cause, CTA should take this up to proceed with dismantling of the ban and be magnanimous in offering a formal apology to all Shugden practitioners, with plans on how to move on from thenceforth. It is time for reconciliation and I hope that CTA has the courage & whatever honesty left to start this move to correct a devastating wrong of 20 years.

[kris]

On top of what pgdharma said, many of the Tibetans are spreading hatred towards China and Chinese. They keep calling "Chinese dogs" etc to provoke hatred and invite others to spread the hatred and cultivate the hatred towards China.

I think this culture of hatred is not doing anyone any good. But the funny thing is HH Dalai Lama is not interested to put a stop to it, and kinda let this kind of hatred associate with Him. I seriously don't know what is HHDL strategy: Is it to make good ties with China? Or that is just a show?

[James Bond]

This is good news. There must always be good ties between countries. Especially between such powerful ones. China is the most powerful nation in the world right now and India is also very powerful. Not as powerful as China, but for sure if among the more powerful nations in the world. Therefore I think the Dalai Lama is doing a good thing by requesting peace and good ties between the two countries.