Dalai Lama WILL STOP condemning Dorje Shugden

[vajrastorm]

Thank you for this fantastic ground-breaking news. I rejoice! This should pave the way for the lifting of the ban. Hopefully the CTA will respond by taking the cue from HH Dalai Lama and leave off inflicting so much suffering on the Shugden practitioners, both monks and lay people, in India.

This softening of the stance against Dorje Shugden and Shugden practitioners by the  Dalai lama had already been seen when he talked about Shugden in his speech at the 14-day Lamrim teaching at Drepung monastery in December. He had been in a very relaxed and playful mood and had been relatively mild in his reference to Dorje Shugden.

Indeed,we ARE SEEING the bigger picture unfolding!

If we are aware of the magnitude of the suffering of those who defied the ban and continue to practice  Shugden, we will support this website which  does more than talk. It is educating people about Dorje Shugden practice and the benefits of this practice, providing all the information and even testimonials of those who have benefited from His practice.

[Q]

When Dorje Shugden was first 'banned'... I was not in the Buddhist scenes at all. It was only after a few years when I started to know about Buddhism and was introduced to Dorje Shugden did I slowly discovered about the ban. I was totally devastated, but more towards asking 'Why is this happening?' How can an Enlightened protector be banned? To me it didn't make sense at that time and it never will. You see... you must understand that I'm a foreigner, not Tibetan... so it is just ridiculous for the CTA to ban DS practice when it is not even their jurisdiction to do so, coz I'm not governed by them!

But what I have always kept in mind is something my senior Dharma brother told me... he said to not worry and bear with all the pain we're being put through now, because soon (didn't felt very soon though, it's been 6 years for me...) the ban will be lifted... and even if it's not 'officially' lifted, it will be very quiet and people will eventually 'forget' about it.

I have been holding on to that thought for years now... and you have no idea how much joy it brings to me (and I'm sure many DS practitioners) to read this news. I do not care what other people tell me, but if the news comes from DS.com, then I'm really confident that this is the current situation for DS practitioners because ds.com seem to get their news from reliable sources, not to mention the latest news... and if all goes well, then in a few years, the ban will be gone.

[beggar]

Karla,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your views. It's good to have different perspectives. However, may I point out that if you disagree with our perspectives and approaches you do not need to continue following the writings of the website or the forum. Please try to respect the fact that much effort, hard work and time has been put into making this information available. You might not like or appreciate it, but this website has also received a lot of feedback from readers all around the world here and on Facebook who have expressed how much they have been helped by the information provided here. There are different strokes for different folks.

There are also plenty of websites out there who do not talk about the unfortunate situation of the ban. So people who do not wish to be involved with the more "contentious" issues can get a lot of information from there too if it "disturbs" them to read about the ban. If you notice, while we do highlight issues about the ban here on the website, we also provide a lot of information about the practice and Dorje Shugden himself, which is completely separate from any issues to do with the CTA or the ban.

It is important, I feel, that we provide details that are as comprehensive as possible and cover all views. People looking to engage in the practice of Dorje Shugden will somehow, inevitably come across comments or information about the ban. If there isn't any accurate information about this or news about the developments of this ban, the lack of education itself could lead to turning people away from practice. Prevention is better than trying to cure someone's doubts once they have turned. The information we provide is also to preempt the nasty thoughts and comments that others may plant into the minds of future Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Please respect the guidelines and mission of this website since you are in this space. These can be read clearly here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=880.0

I hope this will  also give you a better understanding of this website's mission and intention - you will see that it arises only from a good motivation to provide as much knowledge as possible. Knowledge, I'm sure you'll agree, empowers and strengthens any practitioner's understanding, study, meditation and practice - all key ingredients if we wish to advance on our spiritual journey.

It is important to debate and I appreciate you giving us a different way of looking at things. Please try to appreciate our way and approach also.

I wish you the best in all your spiritual aspirations!

[brian]

This is truly an amazing news to receive today! This is almost unbelievable to me and it give us (the ones who are suffering because of the baseless ban!) hope to reviving and be open to our practice! At least there will be no longer people who are insulting me because i am practising Dorje Shugden!

Once the Dorje Shugden ban is lifted, the Dorje Shugden lamas will be able to benefit even more people and able to share this wonderful practice to others without fear of being harmed by the people of anti Dorje Shugden practitioners!

With this news hopefully the Dalai Lama's devotees will know about this and stop harming and discriminating Dorje Shugden practitioners! I so so hope the ban of this sacred practice be lifted very very soon!

[rossoneri]

Wonderful wonderful news, looks like His Holiness The Dalai Lama (HHTDL) is heading towards Plan B. Somehow i always believe the real reason behind the ban in fact is to promote Dorje Shugden much faster and effectively, yes, the method is and some how cruel but it is provocative but at least now everyone who follows Buddhism, do aware of His Existence, especially in China.

[Namdrol]

The Dalai Lama is doing the right thing to stop condemning Dorje Shugden, there are other bigger and more practical issues for them to condemn, for example, the undharmic act of self-immolation. It is a bit too late for CTA to realize that self-immolation has almost no effect on China to achieve whatever they hope to achieve, almost 100 precious lives were lost, and Buddhism does not condone suicide, so why didn't CTA stop the self-immolation when it first started in 2009?

Time to stop condemning Dorje Shugden and ostracizing Shugden practitioners, condemn other more relevant and practical issues, don't blame your problem on a God.

[Ensapa]

HHDL should have stopped condemning Dorje Shugden a long time ago because if he had stopped, Gaden Shartse and Sera Porma khangtsen wouldnt have split. But maybe perhaps, it is his intent to split the khangtsens for a higher purpose temporarily for now. I am glad that HHDL has decided to condemn Dorje Shugden neverthenless as it is a huge improvement over the years....although he cannot immediately lift the ban that he has implemented for so long but it seems that he is slowly conditioning his followers to lift the ban. Lets hope that he would lift the ban after this and openly declare that it is okay for everyone to practice.

[Ganden_follower]

I truly rejoice knowing that HHDL will stop condemning the practice. But at the same time, I can't help but be slightly skeptical about whether this means that the ban will be lifted soon. Perhaps just as the ban itself began as a gradual process (first HHDL told teachers to stop openly spreading the practice but ok to still continue, then later advising not to do the practice, then finally the firm ban that is now in place) maybe it will be removed in the same, gradual process.

One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?

[WisdomBeing]

Dear Ganden follower,

I was just discussing the same point with a friend the other day. We talked about how the ban would end. It is just a matter of time. It would either end when HH Dalai Lama passes (we hope not soon) or if the Dalai Lama lifts the ban. If it ends because the Dalai Lama is no longer with us, it will take a couple of generations for the anti-Shugden sentiment to change. It may even go on longer because there will still be people who said but this was what the Dalai Lama said. The best outcome is for the Dalai Lama to lift the ban. Then there would be no doubt.

As for those teachers who have to change their rhetoric, i guess they would just have to bite the bullet and do it. Impermanence, my friend Life is interesting. Very interesting.

[Big Uncle]

I truly rejoice knowing that HHDL will stop condemning the practice. But at the same time, I can't help but be slightly skeptical about whether this means that the ban will be lifted soon. Perhaps just as the ban itself began as a gradual process (first HHDL told teachers to stop openly spreading the practice but ok to still continue, then later advising not to do the practice, then finally the firm ban that is now in place) maybe it will be removed in the same, gradual process.

One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?

Yes, I had also voiced a similar concern on another thread and especially the heads of the other sects like Sakya Trizin who had already spoken against Dorje Shugden. I truly wonder what they are going to do after the ban has been lifted. I think as religious leaders, they have to come clean and apologize for making this grave error.

I am sure some would even have to apologize to Dorje Shugden directly via an oracle of course  if they have any conscience at all. A few would just keep quiet. Besides the Lama and monks who spoke up, I wonder what CTA would do. I think the entire administration would have to do something big to make up to Dorje Shugden to stave off the repercussions as it would be very heavy for the discord they had sown over the last 20 years. On the other, they could chose not to bother as they might think it is on the Dalai Lama's orders and the people in power at that time and now have changed.

[WisdomBeing]

The CTA are just the puppets of HH the Dalai Lama - meaning that though the Dalai Lama has outwardly stepped down from his political role, the CTA would always follow the Dalai Lama's instructions. The Dalai Lama only stepped down relatively recently and it would take a long time for the CTA to find its own footing and be truly independent. This may not happen until the Dalai Lama passes into clear light, again of course we do not wish this to happen for a long time.

It is not really the CTA's fault, if we look at it objectively. They are incompetent because they have no real experience in the political arena. Sikyong Dr Lobsang Sangay is a scholar, not a politician. However, that said, i have always called for the CTA to lift the ban so that at least on the secular level, it would show that the CTA is independent. They should remove the ban on Shugden practitioners to shop, to go to schools, to travel and have travel papers. What has one's religious practice have to do with all these things???

The Dalai Lama may continue to assert the spiritual ban in that no Shugden practitioner can attend his talks or his empowerments but at least Dorje Shugden practitioners would have access to basic necessities which is the absolute right of ANY human being. It will be interesting to see if the Dalai Lama does go through with what he says, in that he will not criticise Dorje Shugden in public any more. It's not that i doubt this news, but the Dalai Lama could change his mind though since he announced it to the abbots of the monasteries, it will look inconsistent if he went back on his word. I guess time will tell.

[dsiluvu]

I truly rejoice knowing that HHDL will stop condemning the practice. But at the same time, I can't help but be slightly skeptical about whether this means that the ban will be lifted soon. Perhaps just as the ban itself began as a gradual process (first HHDL told teachers to stop openly spreading the practice but ok to still continue, then later advising not to do the practice, then finally the firm ban that is now in place) maybe it will be removed in the same, gradual process.

One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?

I see and completely understand you concern as I have these thoughts too GF.... yes it will take some time and no matter what sectarian strife still go on... look at the history of Tibetan Buddhism, it has always had this strife, before even the ban appeared. The whole reason why His Holiness is also trying to unite all the sects is also because of this sad political strife. It has been there since day one when 4 sects emerged due to the 3 poisons of samsara unfortunately!

But how quickly this discrimination of Dorje Shugden disappears will be based upon how soon the Ban is lifted, who will realign all the anti-shugden people, which I personally think, strongest people who will have the authority to shut everyone up is His Holiness the Dalai Lama followed by each Head of the 4 different schools to advice their people not to create negative karma from their body, speech and mind action and to reeducate everyone this. Also Dorje Shugden Lamas and practitioners, we must also work doubly hard to maintain the peace, they must grow peacefully, the must be extra kind, extra humble, extra helpful to everyone especially those who condemned us and through kindness we can change hatred to love.

It is possible if we actually applied what is taught in Dharma. I mean honestly speaking,  if we all had applied the Dharma, there would not have been any political strife, any protest for Free Tibet or Free Dorje Shugden or the ban to happen in the first place. But still this is what we need to do cos this is like or not still samsara. We cannot be too idealistic and expect everyone to change overnight but we can for sure plant and nurture good seed for like you say the the new generation of Buddhists who will definitely emerged.

[whitelion]

Very good news... HHDL been getting more quiet and quiet about DS issue this few years. I wondering what's the reason behind this? Is HHDL realized he was wrong to banned DS practice ? Or HHDL feel that he can't control the growth of DS followers or it's really that most of the people is listening to his advise and stop practice DS ?

Personally I feel the ban, the put down of DS Lamas and other discrimination towards DS practitioners are all made up by HHDL in order to spread DS lineage. You might said it's doesn't make sense because why HHDL need to do this kind of negative promotion towards DS? But frankly speaking if HHDL doesn't make a big hoo-ha on DS issue, most of us will not spent so much time to research and find out more about DS. Really thanks to the ban, the suppress from HHDL, we work even harder to promo DS to people who know nothing about DS.     

For whatever reason HHDL banned the Dorje Shugden, but I think it should come to an end soon. And based on the fact that HH Trijang Rinpoche is giving a lot of initiation since last year, I really think HHDL and HH Trijang Rinpoche are promoting/spreading DS in 2 different but the same goal. HHDL created the awareness and Trijang Rinpoche giving the answer to the public, I think it's very amazing how this 2 highest lamas in gelug lineage who seems not connected to each other for this moment but actually bring DS to the world.

[Ensapa]

One thing I wonder, though, is what will happen to various institutions and teachers who have made it their policy to mistreat or speak rudely about Dorje Shugden practitioners. For example, certain teachers in other traditions call DS a "gyalpo spirit" and tell their students not to even come physically near or speak to DS practitioners otherwise they will suffer spirit harm. Are such teachers going to have to suddenly change their rhetoric or is this kind of hurtful, sectarian strife still going to slowly continue until the new generation of Buddhists emerges?

To be honest, after carefully considering this and also based on my previous experiences regarding the whole "Dorje Shugden is like Voldermort, dont even speak his name" issue, the whole thing is done more or less due to jealousy. you will never hear a Gelugpa, or someone who considers himself a Gelugpa make such remarks. It is always the non Gelugpa that will tell us such a story of how bad Dorje Shugden is, and how even seeing him is bad luck, blah blah blah and the reason why they do that is jealousy, or that they feel that their lineage is superior and 'untainted', and perhaps because of this, they found a need to criticize this way.

[samayakeeper]

Karla,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your views. It's good to have different perspectives. However, may I point out that if you disagree with our perspectives and approaches you do not need to continue following the writings of the website or the forum. Please try to respect the fact that much effort, hard work and time has been put into making this information available. You might not like or appreciate it, but this website has also received a lot of feedback from readers all around the world here and on Facebook who have expressed how much they have been helped by the information provided here. There are different strokes for different folks.

There are also plenty of websites out there who do not talk about the unfortunate situation of the ban. So people who do not wish to be involved with the more "contentious" issues can get a lot of information from there too if it "disturbs" them to read about the ban. If you notice, while we do highlight issues about the ban here on the website, we also provide a lot of information about the practice and Dorje Shugden himself, which is completely separate from any issues to do with the CTA or the ban.

It is important, I feel, that we provide details that are as comprehensive as possible and cover all views. People looking to engage in the practice of Dorje Shugden will somehow, inevitably come across comments or information about the ban. If there isn't any accurate information about this or news about the developments of this ban, the lack of education itself could lead to turning people away from practice. Prevention is better than trying to cure someone's doubts once they have turned. The information we provide is also to preempt the nasty thoughts and comments that others may plant into the minds of future Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Please respect the guidelines and mission of this website since you are in this space. These can be read clearly here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=880.0

I hope this will  also give you a better understanding of this website's mission and intention - you will see that it arises only from a good motivation to provide as much knowledge as possible. Knowledge, I'm sure you'll agree, empowers and strengthens any practitioner's understanding, study, meditation and practice - all key ingredients if we wish to advance on our spiritual journey.

It is important to debate and I appreciate you giving us a different way of looking at things. Please try to appreciate our way and approach also.

I wish you the best in all your spiritual aspirations!

I joined this forum because there is a whole lot of information here I can read and share with my friends. The people who frequented here did not slander HHDL. This forum is a site where people who cannot bear to see injustice and unfairness being meted out on the unfortunates who are innocent. Everyone has the chance and right to speak up and speak for.

If I had found this forum to be too political and slanderous or blasphemous, I would not have continued to participate. On the other, if others find this to be the opposite, just leave and join another.