Karmapa and Trijang Rinpoche - best of friends

[yontenjamyang]

Love this post.

Sectarianism wasn't something that Buddha taught. No where in the Kagyur is there anything on sectarianism. Therefore it could only arise due to the ignorance of man.

Buddhism has one root - Buddha. Whatever school you learn from and practise with, it leads you to the same ultimate goal. The path may differ but the achievement/goal is the same. There is no difference in the goals of each school.

It is like maths. the fundamental concepts of mathematics is the same. You can become a mathematician from doing your studies at cambridge, oxford, imperial, australia, canada. Whatever school you choose, the end result is that you will become a mathematician. Same thing. There is no division in the schools.

Sectarianism arose from schismatic mindsets.

Karmapa and Trijang Rinpoche are best of friends, because their fundamental goal is the same. To benefit others and lead others out of samsara.

To add on this, it is common and well known also that in every major religion there are sectarianism. In Christianity, we have Catholics and Protestants. And within both, we have many different schools as well sometime 4 to 5 sub divisions. In Islam, we have Sunni, Shiite and Ismailis. Hindus have different focus on the deities and the same with Taoism. So what is common here is the human factor. Human are the culprit. The Buddhas and the great saints know this and tries to cater for this in their teachings. However, the human karma are such that no matter what, there are conflicts between these different schools.
So, we call this sectarianism. It involves disparaging one and another, focusing on differences and "faults" of others. The Buddha taught the Dharma so that we can discern the falsity behind all these "samsara" delusions. We need to practice the Dharma and be more discerning and find the similarity in these different schools. After all, all the teachings depending on the scope is to find happiness and lessen sufferings for beings. It is humans who causes these suffering.
Certainly not the Lamas. For what they appear to do are mere reflection of our though, be it wisdom or delusions.

[Big Uncle]

To add on this, it is common and well known also that in every major religion there are sectarianism. In Christianity, we have Catholics and Protestants. And within both, we have many different schools as well sometime 4 to 5 sub divisions. In Islam, we have Sunni, Shiite and Ismailis. Hindus have different focus on the deities and the same with Taoism. So what is common here is the human factor. Human are the culprit. The Buddhas and the great saints know this and tries to cater for this in their teachings. However, the human karma are such that no matter what, there are conflicts between these different schools.
So, we call this sectarianism. It involves disparaging one and another, focusing on differences and "faults" of others. The Buddha taught the Dharma so that we can discern the falsity behind all these "samsara" delusions. We need to practice the Dharma and be more discerning and find the similarity in these different schools. After all, all the teachings depending on the scope is to find happiness and lessen sufferings for beings. It is humans who causes these suffering.
Certainly not the Lamas. For what they appear to do are mere reflection of our though, be it wisdom or delusions.

You know what's interesting, the Lamas themselves are really not sectarian. They just want to ensure that the teachings are practiced purely. No Lama would really be against any other tradition since all traditions are good and have its source in the Buddha's teachings. Some traditions are more open to the mixing of lineages than others. From my observation, Nyingma, Sakya and Kagyu seemed a little more open to this than the Gelugs. That's what I noticed and may not necessarily reflect reality.

Whatever it is, one's practice in the Tantric tradition should be bound by the 50 Stanzas of Guru devotion in order for real attainments to arise. Therefore, I think the general rule of thumb is to always stick to one's Guru and lineage. That's the best way to progress on our path. We are not High Lamas and yogis who have a higher motivation and the very fact that we have not perfected all the teachings that we have received from our Lama and that's why we should stick with him and fulfill all instructions and advice from our qualified Guru.

[dsiluvu]

[img] This has been described to be some sort of divine play from these spiritually evolved beings as they have no identity and do not have to belong to any school of Buddhism as long as the lineage and teachings benefit others.

Dear Big Uncle,

Ok, i understand what you say on a certain level (i think) but i would like to ask ... are all Buddhas the same energy, as in they are all ONE and not separate beings, but they manifest as separate beings in order to deal with our simple, deluded minds which cling to form, duality and labels etc.

When we say that the lineage of a master is the continuation of his mindstream from lifetime to lifetime, does that mean that the mindstream of Trijang Rinpoche manifested as the 8th Karmapa Migyo Dorje (so they 'switched')? So the Karmapa's mindstream hopped over and then back again?

Does the karmapa's lineage recognise this - that Migyo Dorje was Trijang Rinpoche's midstream?

I'd appreciate any clarification.. thanks!

Dear Wisdom Being,

Your questions on " all Buddhas the same energy" is something I have also pondered upon for a long time. In my own personal opinion. when we talk about the 3 kayas, Dharmakaya being the formless or energy form... I visualise that all these Buddhas are actually some kind of light force that in reality are one. It is just that certain aspects of the Buddhas are being highlighted more or can we say more focused on? I do not know if my own reasoning makes sense but this is my own perception.

For instance Medicine Buddha's energy focuses on healing energies of all the Buddhas and dispelling disease while Manjushri focuses on the Wisdom energy of all Buddhas. This is so that if someone is lack of something, they can zoom in or tap in to the right Buddha's energy to get help from. It is like if you are a patient that lacks of vitamin C, you take a fully concentrated vitamin C. It does not mean you do not need the rest, it is just you need some thing more...?

I hope this makes sense and if not, if anyone can clarify... it would help

[Ensapa]

Dear Wisdom Being,

Your questions on " all Buddhas the same energy" is something I have also pondered upon for a long time. In my own personal opinion. when we talk about the 3 kayas, Dharmakaya being the formless or energy form... I visualise that all these Buddhas are actually some kind of light force that in reality are one. It is just that certain aspects of the Buddhas are being highlighted more or can we say more focused on? I do not know if my own reasoning makes sense but this is my own perception.

For instance Medicine Buddha's energy focuses on healing energies of all the Buddhas and dispelling disease while Manjushri focuses on the Wisdom energy of all Buddhas. This is so that if someone is lack of something, they can zoom in or tap in to the right Buddha's energy to get help from. It is like if you are a patient that lacks of vitamin C, you take a fully concentrated vitamin C. It does not mean you do not need the rest, it is just you need some thing more...?

I hope this makes sense and if not, if anyone can clarify... it would help

Actually in the descriptions, it is said that Manjushri is the representative or the essence of the wisdom of all the Buddhas, while Chenrezig is the representative or the essence of all the Buddhas, if you take the compassion of every single Buddha in the universe and give it a form, it would be Chenrezig. So, it is something like how liquid would follow the form of the container it is in. The type of Buddha that we are most attracted to would be the Buddha that 'fits' our mind the most. All Buddhas are the same energy: alturism, skillful means and wisdom but they appear differently to quench our different needs.

[Positive Change]

I actually wonder now: if the Karmapa and Trijang Rinpoche were very close for so many lifetimes, how come in this lifetime both Karmapas are not showing that they are close to Trijang Rinpoche? (I.e. visiting him, making statements to support him) and both Karmapas are quiet about Trijang Rinpoche. I find this aspect quite interesting on why they do not manifest this relationship. Is it due to the Dorje Shugden ban as neither Karmapa is bold enough to defy His Holiness the Dalai Lama? Other than that, I cannot think of any reasons as to why they would not want to resume a friendship with Trijang Rinpoche.

Ensapa... I believe there is a time for everything... perhaps the reason behind why the Karmapas are not showing "closeness" with HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche yet is because of HHDL. Why I say this? Perhaps HHDL role in this whole "play" has yet to come to final fruition and it is not yet time for HHDL to take the final curtain so to speak.

I am sure the roles these holy beings play are beyond our human comprehension and there has to be a reason behind why they are not close YET! If reincarnation is to be believed and that our minds are a continuum, surely being "friends" and close in previous lives would most certainly be the case in this life... What is interesting is why which I have put my two cents worth... hehehe

[Ensapa]

Ensapa... I believe there is a time for everything... perhaps the reason behind why the Karmapas are not showing "closeness" with HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche yet is because of HHDL. Why I say this? Perhaps HHDL role in this whole "play" has yet to come to final fruition and it is not yet time for HHDL to take the final curtain so to speak.

I am sure the roles these holy beings play are beyond our human comprehension and there has to be a reason behind why they are not close YET! If reincarnation is to be believed and that our minds are a continuum, surely being "friends" and close in previous lives would most certainly be the case in this life... What is interesting is why which I have put my two cents worth... hehehe

What would be extremely interesting that I would like to see is Trijang Rinpoche giving the Karmapa sogtae when they have rekindled the friendship. Because the the previous Karmapa has spoken out against the statue of Guru Rinpoche stepping on Dorje Shugden in Nepal that I strongly believe that the Karmapa will be an advocate of Dorje Shugden, or if there is a 'need' to choose the right candidate, the correct one will gravitate towards Dorje Shugden and also Trijang Rinpoche, simply because they have been close for so many lifetimes before, its highly unlikely that the friendship would suddenly be cut off like that.