Dalai Lama says his Gurus are wrong; Lama Zopa says they're not. Which is it?

[beggar]

Great new article up on the website. This explains VERY CLEARLY the difficult situation that many people have found themselves in. People have this wrong idea that Shugden practitioners are automatically Dalai Lama haters; and that everyone who has followed the Dalai Lama's instructions to stop the practice must automatically be Shugden-haters. There is a lot of grey in between. I know for a fact that many members of the monastic communities and serious practitioners around the world hate neither side - this is the dilemma they are in.

Well now, we have yet another contradiction to look at now. The Dalai Lama has said definitely that his Gurus were wrong in their practice of Dorje Shugden. Lama Zopa says they are not. So which is it? And if they are both our Gurus, whose advice do we listen to? Is it even a decision that is possible to make? If so, how? And what are the consequences of making that decision, whatever it may be?

The article is a good one because it shows us the difficulty of being in this dilemma - I'm not sure it necessarily has the answers for how to make that crucial decision if you were in the same predicament. The question is a rhetorical one perhaps. I'm not sure there really is an answer for how to reconcile this situation. 

Thoughts?



Caught Between a Rock and a Hard Place
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/caught-between-a-rock-and-hard-place/

It might be surprising for many to realize that in this day and age, we still find religious discrimination in what is commonly regarded as one of the most peaceful, progressive and compassionate religions of the world – Buddhism.

Ironically, Tibetan Buddhism has also become the center of a most hotly contested contemporary religious issue, which has placed millions of peaceful practitioners in the greatest dilemma of their spiritual lives – having to choose between their loyalty to their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, and their loyalty to their own life-long spiritual teachers, practices and commitments.

In recent decades, when the Dalai Lama decreed that the practice of the Protector Deity Dorje Shugden was harmful and must be abandoned, an entire community of practitioners suddenly found the ground pulled out from beneath their feet. To this day, many of them find themselves in a peculiar bind: while they continue to have tremendous respect for the spiritual leadership of Dalai Lama (some even regard him as their teacher), they have also prayed to and relied on Dorje Shugden their entire lives under the guidance of another teacher.

Thousands of practitioners were being forced to choose – to side with the Dalai Lama would automatically mean that they would have to turn against their other teachers; conversely, to side with their teachers would make them traitors to the Dalai Lama and their fellow Tibetans.


“Wrong! Yes, wrong!”

The situation became more complicated and painful when the Dalai Lama himself decreed that his own teachers were wrong to have worshipped Dorje Shugden. In an interview featured on Swiss Public Television, he declared forcefully that his gurus were, “Wrong! Yes, wrong!”

As devotion, faith and commitment to the spiritual teacher is the defining basis of Buddhist practice, a declaration like this against his teachers shocked the Buddhist community. This was an especially controversial statement to make as the Dalai Lama’s gurus, Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche were also gurus to thousands of people. Just about every practitioner in the Gelugpa school of Tibetan Buddhism today can trace their lineage of teachings and practices to these two lamas or received teachings directly from them. For the Dalai Lama to have stated that his gurus were “wrong” was to deny an entire spiritual lineage spanning hundreds of thousands of Buddhists.


“It does not mean they are wrong”

Since then, another highly respected and very prominent teacher in the Buddhist world, Lama Zopa of Kopan Monastery and the Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition (FPMT) centers has made statements that do not quite concur with the Dalai Lama’s views.

Interestingly, Lama Zopa and his centers have openly chosen to renounce their practice of Dorje Shugden, out of respect and reverence for the Dalai Lama’s instructions. Lama Zopa has also written and spoken often and clearly about his stance with regards to Dorje Shugden. However, it must be noted that in all his speeches and writings, he has not denounced the practice nor spoken against those who choose to continue.

In a letter to one of his students, which has been published on their official websites, Lama Zopa advised, “This does not mean that Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, and His Holiness Song Rinpoche have made mistakes. It does not mean they are wrong. Nor does one have to look at the protector as evil.”

This indicates very clearly and directly that these Gelugpa lineage lamas were not wrong in their practice of Dorje Shugden and that we should not view them as such. Lama Zopa is clear to his students that his directive to stop the practice of Dorje Shugden within the FPMT organization is not because the practice is wrong or bad, but because it is “very important to support His Holiness and to fulfill His Holiness’ wishes. For that reason, Kopan Monastery stopped doing this practice.”


So Which Is It?

So His Holiness the Dalai Lama says that his masters are wrong but Lama Zopa says that they are right. Which one should we believe? If, like many thousands of people around the world, we have both the Dalai Lama and Lama Zopa as our teacher and received initiations from them, then whose advice should we follow?

Both the Dalai Lama and Lama Zopa are very prominent lamas, each respected in their own right for their enormous contributions to the growth of Dharma around the world. Both have established centers and monasteries in the world, with huge followings; both grant initiations and give teachings regularly throughout the world. More importantly, both share the same lineage of teachers, including H.H. Trijang Rinpoche, who spent a lifetime engaged in, teaching and spreading the practice of Dorje Shugden.

So who should we believe?


Opening a Can of Worms

If we follow the thought that the Dalai Lama’s gurus were wrong in their judgment and practice of Dorje Shugden, then we can be led to question the validity of all their other teachings and practices. If one practice can be wrong, then so can another, and another… It leads to doubts about the other most basic practices of the lineage – such as the Lamrim, the tantric practices, meditations etc. – for they all come from the same source of teachings and the same lineage of teachers. We open a big can of worms.

Is the Dalai Lama really in a position to judge the validity of his teachers and their practices? And what are the repercussions of him doing so? If we accept the Dalai Lama’s questioning of his teachers and his conclusion that they are wrong, then it naturally follows that the Dalai Lama himself could also be wrong; all his teachings and practices could also be open to questioning. How can our teachers be wrong but we continue to take teachings from them? And why do we call them our teachers if we apparently know the teachings and practices better than they do?

Again, faith and trust in the teacher is the cornerstone of every Buddhist path. While questioning is good to strengthen our understanding of the teachings, it is quite a different thing to outright deny and reject them. So if the Dalai Lama is in a position to question his teachers, then surely that would mean that we have the same right to question our teachers, the Dalai Lama, the whole Guru Tree. The entire basis of the teachings, Tantra, practices, meditations dissolves into doubt and disbelief.


Making the Decision

We cannot sit on the fence forever. In fact, many do not have the luxury of maintaining a neutral stance towards the practice – the decision would literally affect the rest of their lives and perhaps even their families. This is the great dilemma faced particularly by the many thousands of Tibetans in exile who have had to choose between a political allegiance to the Dalai Lama and their spiritual commitments.

For these Tibetans, choosing to continue their practice of Dorje Shugden would mean immediate exclusion from mainstream Tibetan community, definite expulsion from the monastery, exclusion from the most basic welfare, medical help and civil rights such as voting and travel documents. However, choosing to discontinue the practice would mean giving up a spiritual commitment they have upheld their entire lives and possibly destroying a lifelong bond with their spiritual teachers.

So how does one choose?

The situation worsens when we consider how much hostility has developed between the two camps. Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners now live in fear of being ostracized and even brutally attacked by their own community. Dalai Lama supporters go out of their way to curse and attack Dorje Shugden practitioners, disassociate from them and even deny them access into grocery stores.

Sadly, the animosity also extends beyond the Tibetan communities. Today, international Dharma centers – who have no obligation to follow Tibetan policies or edicts – also discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners. It is not uncommon practice for centers to post clear notices and produce literature to actively denounce Dorje Shugden and exclude them from any shared Buddhist activity.

Is this how we express our spirituality and our practice of the many Buddhist teachings on compassion, tolerance and kindness? Is this what Buddhist practitioners have turned into? We see now that the choice the Dalai Lama has forced millions of practitioners to make has led directly to greater conflict, hostility and the division of a spiritual community.

 

Standing Your Ground…Compassionately

And so, in the midst of so much confusion and pain, we might turn to the little glimmer of home and light in Lama Zopa. Because although he has decided not to continue the practice of Dorje Shugden he shows a perfect example of what it means to be firm on your decision but remain respectful and gentle to others, whatever their decisions may be.

Lama Zopa shows us by his own kind behavior that standing our ground does not have to be at the expense of another person’s practice and happiness, and that we never have to disparage another lama, practice or community to strengthen our own position. Finally, he shows us he does understand the difficulty of this situation and that whichever method we have chosen, it is okay insofar as we maintain the basic tenets of our Buddhist practice – kindness, humility, empathy and respect.

*Lama Zopa's letters to his students can be read here:  http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/lama-zopa-advice-book/

[dondrup]

What is being presented below is merely for discussion purposes, it is not meant to be disrespectful.

This article has brought out many essential points about the ban and guru devotion.  Hopefully it will guide those affected by the ban to do the right thing if they have not already done so.  And hopefully it helps those who are new to have a clearer understanding of this issue.

How could HH Dalai Lama ban a sacred protector practice that is beneficial to many for centuries?  How could all the Gelugpa Lineage teachers be wrong?  If they could be wrong, then there is no basis to rely on their teachings and hence Lord Buddha’s teachings!

HH Dalai Lama has placed a dilemma in many practitioners around the World!  The responsibility should not be entirely left to the students who are caught between choosing to continue or discontinue their Dorje Shugden practice.

HH Dalai Lama is Buddha Chenrezig but HH Dalai Lama’s banning of Dorje Shugden practice appears to be “ordinary”. Not all practitioners are at the level to see beyond the “ordinary” behavior of HH Dalai Lama. It would greatly help if HH Dalai Lama can clear away the confusion, anguish, suffering, misunderstanding, disharmony, fear, and so on amongst the practitioners by providing clear and logical explanations on why Dorje Shugden should not be practised and the ban lifted. 

Why is HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche being allowed to practise Dorje Shugden while the rest of the Dorje Shugden practitioners are banned from doing so?

A long awaited decision has to be made NOW to lift the ban.  Can representatives or persons of authority who practise the Dorje Shugden come together to petition for the lift of the ban once and for all? 

[honeydakini]

Hey! You took that line from me for the title of this post! I'm very pleased with that.

You've brought up some interesting questions there beggar and I don't think they can really be answered (or is that the point?). I think the point of all this is that the Dalai Lama has set us up to fail. And why would he do that?

Whether the Dalai Lama or Lama Zopa is our teacher is besides the point. Most of us in the Gelugpa school would be able to trace our lineage back to teachers like Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche. So by the Dalai Lama telling us that this practice is bad already nullifies the very lineage that we're in. Why would he set up what is effectively an entire school to fail and break our samaya like this?

It is an even more delicate situation for the Dalai Lama's own students because then they would definitely also have a connection with Trijang Rinpoche. So whichever way they choose (to keep the practice or to abandon it), they would have broken a link in their lineage. Why would the Dalai Lama allow his own students to create this kind of severely heavy negative karma? It just doesn't make sense.

What I do like in this article though is the way that you have shown Lama Zopa to be so kind and fair, even though he has remained firm in his decision to give up the practice (well, outwardly anyway!). It's encouraging to know that even though it's so difficult to make a decision like this, there are ways to go about it that are still peaceful and create the minimum damage to others.

[vajrastorm]

I do agree that Lama Zopa has shown us the way to go even if one has chosen to support the Dalai Lama and given up the practice of Dorje Shugden. His way is the way of peace and compassion.

Yet, I find myself facing much bewilderment in his advice if I were to choose, like him, to give up my Shugden practice which has been given to me by my own precious Guru, for my own benefit and to benefit all sentient beings.

On the one hand, Lama Zopa says that we have to check out our Guru and make sure he does not practice Shugden. On the other hand ( unlike HH Dalai Lama) he says that it does not mean that his Gurus (who practiced Shugden) like the great Masters - Pabongka Rinpoche , Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche "have made mistakes" or "are wrong". He even goes on to assert that Guru Devotion and having a 100% faith in our Guru as Buddha is of utmost importance,even if, from our ordinary view, we see him making mistakes or performing mistaken actions. He talks of the dire consequences of breaking our samaya with our Guru - being born in hell realms for many many aeons.

Although he advocates being "in harmony with HH Dalai Lama " by giving up the practice of "what is called Dolgyal", the protector Shugden, yet, he says further on :

"Another side of the teaching is that it is mentioned that the protector(Dorje Shugden)is an ARYA BODHISATTVA, a MANIFESTATION of MANJUSHRI. So..THERE IS ALSO THE GREAT RISK OF OUR CREATING HEAVY NEGATIVE KARMA in that context(for having bad thoughts about an enlightened being".

So it's most confusing and bewildering indeed. The only clear thought in my mind is that if I have been given the practice of Dorje Shugden by my Guru, then my utmost faith and trust in my Guru as having given me a beneficial practice, out of pure love and compassion,must count above all else.

 
 

[Big Uncle]

Hahaha! The big Dalai Lama conundrum! His Guru is wrong and this makes all Gurus big and small quiver in fear because such a statement rocks Tibetan Buddhism to the core of its foundation. For centuries upon centuries, Buddhism had been advocating the view of the pure and perfect spiritual guide for the growth of spiritual attainments. But that has worn off over time and it has never come so close to crumbling with this sole statement by the Dalai Lama.

I think that its not about taking sides but assessing the real purpose in surrendering and devoting to an authentic spiritual guide. The thing is that reliance upon the spiritual guide is absolutely necessary because of the method in use is Tantra where the development of pure view and pure perception is essential for the practice of Tantra especially with the way we regard our Guru or Tantric master. Hence, if we can even think that our Gurus has made mistakes on something so important as a lineage practice, one's perception of our Gurus would have been shattered. Therefore, its a view that is bad for practice and bad for the development of spiritual attainments.

Therefore, I would rather stick to Lama Zopa's view of the perfect Guru. His only reason for advocating the Dorje Shugden is to follow along the Dalai Lama's instruction and Lama Zopa has never really denigrated Dorje Shugden or its practice. This is a good view or stance to follow and I think a rather spiritual way to look at this ban if we wish to uphold the Dorje Shugden ban.

[Dulzie Bear]

The Dalai Lama said that his teachers, including Trijang Rinpoche was wrong about Dorje Shugden and yet the one person His Holiness has allowed to practice Gyalchen Shugden is Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, the present reincarnation of his teacher. If the Dalai Lama truly believes that Gyalchen Shugden is a spirit, when let the young Trijang Rinpoche make the same "mistake" again? Either the Dalai Lama himself is mistaken about the Gyalchen Shugden and he knows it, or he is not compassionate enough to stop Trijang Coktrul Rinpoche from a grave error.

It would be interesting to see what happens when Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche conducts more and more public pujas, initiations and empowerments and to a larger crowd. I wonder if those who attended the Dalai Lama's events which Shugden worshippers were prohibited from, will also attend Trijang Rinpoche's initiations and events. Wouldn't it be odd for them to attend events conducted by someone who worships a supposed evil spirit, and rubbing shoulders and taking refuge with the "enemy"? At some point, everyone is going to sit and realize that a lot which has been said does not add up.

And just for comparison, if Trjang Rinpoche's events require people to make a declaration that they believe in Gyalchen Shugden before they are allowed to enter, would that make those sitting on the fence realize how unfair and un-Dharmic the anti-Shugden movements are? Of course, Trijang Rinpoche would never allow it and that was just a cheeky hypothetical situation to highlight how wrong it is to create schisms like that within the Buddhist community.

As for Lama Zopa, we all know when he stands "in opposition" to the ban. I doubt very much is Lama Zopa has really given up the practice.

[beggar]

Hence, if we can even think that our Gurus has made mistakes on something so important as a lineage practice, one's perception of our Gurus would have been shattered. Therefore, its a view that is bad for practice and bad for the development of spiritual attainments.

You've hit on a key point Big Uncle. Once we start doubting the authenticity or correctness of our teacher's practices and advice to us, then everything else is open to questioning and doubt. Then we ask what remains sacred anymore?

There is a huge domino effect once we start proclaiming that this advice or that instruction from our Gurus were wrong. This is not to say that we cannot question the Guru as a way of understanding his instruction better, but we must realize that we should be asking not just to be deny or resist his advice, but because we wish to learn. But to simply claim that one advice or practice is wrong without thorough investigation, debate and logic is very dangerous. We open up everything else to question and this can lead to a situation where we even nullify our entire lineage and corpus of teachings.

For example, this ONE singular pronouncement that Dorje Shugden's practice is bad because he is a demon (and not a Buddha, suddenly!), can lead to toppling the entire Gelug system. It can mean that every practitioner in the world who has ever relied on Dorje Shugden has broken their basic refuge vows and samaya, and therefore, the basis of all their practices and teachings are now without blessings. Gaden, Sera and Drepung are now void of blessings, since almost all of them have come directly within a lineage of Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoche, both great Dorje Shugden practitioners. This is fully explained in this brilliant article, "Has the Gelug lineage lost its effectiveness?" http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/

As lineage is so integral to all Buddhist practices, schools and teachings, any singular advice regarding any of the lineage practices affects not just individual practitioners, but the entire school and lineage, tracing back hundreds of years. So we must be extremely careful when entering this debate and thinking that it's okay to simple claim that our teachers have made arbitrary mistakes like this for something as important as our lineage

[dsiluvu]

There is a huge domino effect once we start proclaiming that this advice or that instruction from our Gurus were wrong. This is not to say that we cannot question the Guru as a way of understanding his instruction better, but we must realize that we should be asking not just to be deny or resist his advice, but because we wish to learn. But to simply claim that one advice or practice is wrong without thorough investigation, debate and logic is very dangerous. We open up everything else to question and this can lead to a situation where we even nullify our entire lineage and corpus of teachings.

It is indeed a very risky point of view to take on. What is the difference really if you think about it... if you had HH the Dalai Lama as your Guru and you also had HH Trijang Rinpoche as you Guru, one way or another you break samaya. And if one decided to take on the side of His Holiness you still break samaya... it this sense whatever prayers or initiation you do and did would be pointless any way. What a HUGE HUGE dilemma I am sure Lama Zopa had to go through. I feel really really sad for Lama Zopa actually that He has to make this awful decision.

However, I believe deep down inside Lama Zopa has not given up on the practice and the lineage Lamas, otherwise He would not have said what He said about the having correct views of our lineage Gurus...  “This does not mean that Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, and His Holiness Song Rinpoche have made mistakes. It does not mean they are wrong. Nor does one have to look at the protector as evil.”

Now seriously how can Chenrezig, Buddha of Compassion set us all up to fail? It does not make any sense. So for me personally I like the view that has been the stance of this website...  http://www.dorjeshugden.com/mission-statement/ For those passing judgment on enlightened Beings (can you REALLY be sure who is and who is not?) – may we remind you of the Lamrim teachings where it is stated that converting anyone at the cost of their faith in their previous teachers or religion is equal to killing a thousand Buddhas.

May we remind you that creating schism within the Sangha is one of the five “crimes of immediate retribution”. May we remind you of the Bodhisattva vow of never giving up Bodhicitta. If something or someone is harmful, misdirected etc., wouldn’t the sign of true practitioners be that their compassion grows?

For those who are influenced by these judgements – their door to Dharma may well close for this life, and who knows when such an opportunity will arise again. Anyone truly concerned could easily avoid the horrible karma created in this way, by truly practicing what they believe is good and becoming a shiny example of goodness and wisdom that speaks for itself.

And I do think that His Holiness has a much bigger reason than just politics to ban something that would create chaos within his own people. Because lets put it this way because of the Ban that is why we're even here talking!

[kris]

I really like this article: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/caught-between-a-rock-and-hard-place/ for a few reasons:

1. We have reached a point where we can't sit on the fence anymore. We need to be clear, at least to ourselves, about our practice.

2. We need to be compassionate towards everyone, including ourselves as well as practitioners from another camp. Personally what I don't like about CTA is that they have totally no compassion towards the Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Let's do our part to bring the ban down and hence remove all the doubts in practitioners...

[honeydakini]

The Dalai Lama said that his teachers, including Trijang Rinpoche was wrong about Dorje Shugden and yet the one person His Holiness has allowed to practice Gyalchen Shugden is Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, the present reincarnation of his teacher. If the Dalai Lama truly believes that Gyalchen Shugden is a spirit, when let the young Trijang Rinpoche make the same "mistake" again? Either the Dalai Lama himself is mistaken about the Gyalchen Shugden and he knows it, or he is not compassionate enough to stop Trijang Coktrul Rinpoche from a grave error.

Oh there's another thing that has been said about this, that Trijang Rinpoche is the only person who can practice Dorje Shugden because he's the only one powerful enough to be able to control this "spirit". If this is the case and Trijang Rinpoche could really "control" him, then why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just subdue the spirit completely and bind him to not cause harm? Why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just do something, like a ritual to completely stop the harm of this terrible 'spirit'? Why would the Dalai Lama allow him to practice something harmful but not request him to do something to lessen his harm? It just doesn't make sense to think that this supposed spirit is more powerful and can have a greater effect on the whole world than any lama in the world.... that no lama has attainments enough to control this one single spirit? I don't think this is possible.

[Ensapa]

Oh there's another thing that has been said about this, that Trijang Rinpoche is the only person who can practice Dorje Shugden because he's the only one powerful enough to be able to control this "spirit". If this is the case and Trijang Rinpoche could really "control" him, then why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just subdue the spirit completely and bind him to not cause harm? Why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just do something, like a ritual to completely stop the harm of this terrible 'spirit'? Why would the Dalai Lama allow him to practice something harmful but not request him to do something to lessen his harm? It just doesn't make sense to think that this supposed spirit is more powerful and can have a greater effect on the whole world than any lama in the world.... that no lama has attainments enough to control this one single spirit? I don't think this is possible.

It does not make sense if Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit either, or that Trijang Rinpoche is the only one that can "control" Dorje Shugden because many Lamas who practiced Dorje Shugden until their deaths such as Lama Yeshe, Geshe Rabten, Zong Rinpoche, Ling Rinpoche and Domo Geshe Rinpoche, to name just a few came back and managed to control their rebirths effectively. So if they were praying to an evil spirit and relying on one throughout their lives, wouldnt it cause them to go to the 3 lower realms and that they cannot come back? Why is it that the Dalai Lama simply ignores these Lamas of high calibre?

[beggar]

Oh there's another thing that has been said about this, that Trijang Rinpoche is the only person who can practice Dorje Shugden because he's the only one powerful enough to be able to control this "spirit". If this is the case and Trijang Rinpoche could really "control" him, then why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just subdue the spirit completely and bind him to not cause harm? Why doesn't Trijang Rinpoche just do something, like a ritual to completely stop the harm of this terrible 'spirit'? Why would the Dalai Lama allow him to practice something harmful but not request him to do something to lessen his harm? It just doesn't make sense to think that this supposed spirit is more powerful and can have a greater effect on the whole world than any lama in the world.... that no lama has attainments enough to control this one single spirit? I don't think this is possible.

Honeydakini, that's very insightful of you. Yes, of course this is yet another contradiction. That is also saying that there is only one lama with this level of attainment throughout the whole world. This is impossible. What about all the many other unmistaken tulkus that the Dalai Lama himself has recognised? The incarnation of the current Lama Zopa himself was acknowledged by both Dorje Shugden AND the Dalai Lama! Can it be that only Trijang Rinpoche has the ability to subdue and control a spirit? That doesn't make much sense either.

I like to think of it in a more positive way. Trijang Rinpoche is permitted to practice and is now coming of age. He begins to rise in the world at a time when the Dalai Lama seems to be withdrawing from the world more and more. He has already stepped down from a political arena, for example. So perhaps there is a passing of the mantel. The Dalai Lama has set the stage for a new generation of lamas to take over. Stir up the controversy about Dorje Shugden, get the world talking, let the name of Dorje Shugden spread all over the world, and then hand the baton over to the next powerful young generation of teachers - Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Ling Rinpoche, Rabgye Tulku - to bring the practice to even greater heights.

It seems way too much of a coincidence that while Trijang Rinpoche is beginning to turn the wheel of Dharma again, and as there is increasing news of Dorje Shugden initiations around the world by various Lamas, the Dalai Lama has also begun to change his tone about Shugden and has even said that he will stop publicly denouncing the practice.

I'd like to hope in something positive about to happen and change.

[Big Uncle]

Hmmm, interesting. If Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche can practice Dorje Shugden because he is capable of handling the spirit, why can't the Dalai Lama practice Dorje Shugden as well. Can't he handle the spirit as well? If he can handle it, why do we need to fear Dorje Shugden harming the Dalai Lama's life? This doesn't really make sense. However, there must be something of a deeper meaning to this issue.

I find it contradictory but perhaps, its a loophole to allow Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to be at the forefront of spreading Dorje Shugden later. Well, I personally think he has already started to spread Dorje Shugden practice. I suppose we will see more of Trijang Rinpoche in the coming months and years, teaching, guiding and spreading Dorje Shugden all over. After all, the empowerment of Dorje Shugden is done 3 at a time. I wonder if an exception can be given in which it is given out en masse to the people. That would be more beneficial to people everywhere. But perhaps, it is given 3 at a time for a reason because there are quite severe commitments attached to it.

Whatever it is, I do see the fact that Trijang Rinpoche would be spread this lineage far and wide very soon to the public.                                                                                               

[beggar]

Hmmm, interesting. If Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche can practice Dorje Shugden because he is capable of handling the spirit, why can't the Dalai Lama practice Dorje Shugden as well. Can't he handle the spirit as well?

That's an excellent point Big Uncle.

And it's brought up a few other questions for me:

If Trijang Rinpoche can practice Dorje Shugden because he can "handle" this spirit, then surely that would mean that he knows better and is more capable / attained etc? If that's the case, and if he really does know better, then why isn't it valid to take HIS advice that Dorje Shugden is a a Buddha and not at all harmful; that this is in fact a very beneficial practice?

If Trijang Rinpoche is able to handle Dorje Shugden, then surely he should be powerful enough to also know the potential harm or benefit of this protector. So if he says that it is a good practice, why don't we listen to him?

Why is it that the Dalai Lama is 'correct' about his 'realisation' that Dorje Shugden is a harmful demon? But Trijang Rinpoche is not correct to say that Dorje Shugden is a good protector and practice?

Why is the Dalai Lama more correct than Trijang Rinpoche and with a clearer insight to the supposed 'harm' and intention of Dorje Shugden, but not able to handle Dorje Shugden? Isn't this contradictory?

The Dalai Lama is regarded as an emanation of Chenrezig; Trijang Rinpoche is regarded as an emanation of Vajrayogini. Who is more powerful and correct - Chenrezig or Vajrayogini?

Thoughts please on how to answer these? (if they can even be answered! Most of these questions are rhetorical!)

[Ensapa]

That's an excellent point Big Uncle.

And it's brought up a few other questions for me:

If Trijang Rinpoche can practice Dorje Shugden because he can "handle" this spirit, then surely that would mean that he knows better and is more capable / attained etc? If that's the case, and if he really does know better, then why isn't it valid to take HIS advice that Dorje Shugden is a a Buddha and not at all harmful; that this is in fact a very beneficial practice?

If Trijang Rinpoche is able to handle Dorje Shugden, then surely he should be powerful enough to also know the potential harm or benefit of this protector. So if he says that it is a good practice, why don't we listen to him?

Why is it that the Dalai Lama is 'correct' about his 'realisation' that Dorje Shugden is a harmful demon? But Trijang Rinpoche is not correct to say that Dorje Shugden is a good protector and practice?

Why is the Dalai Lama more correct than Trijang Rinpoche and with a clearer insight to the supposed 'harm' and intention of Dorje Shugden, but not able to handle Dorje Shugden? Isn't this contradictory?

The Dalai Lama is regarded as an emanation of Chenrezig; Trijang Rinpoche is regarded as an emanation of Vajrayogini. Who is more powerful and correct - Chenrezig or Vajrayogini?

Thoughts please on how to answer these? (if they can even be answered! Most of these questions are rhetorical!)

There is basically no way to answer these mainly because there is no way they can be true. Dorje Shugden cannot harm the Dalai Lama -- if he can then how can Dalai Lama be the Dalai Lama? If the Dalai Lama declares it, maybe he wants people to actually think about his statements before accepting it? But I guess, many people just prefer to accept instead of investigate or question these days...the times of the Kaliyuga. The more baffling question is how come many of these so called knowledgeable practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism only listen to hearsay and rumors about Dorje Shugden and then without investigation, take them to be true? This is more baffling to me.