Discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners at a Monastery

[WisdomBeing]

I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.

[honeydakini]

Kate, this is shocking and so sad to see. That after all this time, there are still signs up like this and in a monastery no less. I said this on facebook: if we call ourselves Buddhists, then shouldn't we be all the more kind to people who we perceive to be enemies or perceive to be difficult? Instead of shunning them and turning them away, we should be all the more kind to them to help them get back on a 'correct' path.

Why is it that we run around saying that we want to help all sentient beings, including spirits and animals of all kinds, but we won't help a fellow human being because he has chosen to do a practice that's different from what we've chosen. Where is the compassion in that? If anyone acts like this and abides by these kinds of "instructions" then they may as well throw out the 8 verses of thought transformation, and any kind of lojong teachings or texts that they own.

I agree with Kate that this is like apartheid. How can we even begin to hope for the 4 immeasurables and equanimity when we cannot even be friends with fellow Buddhists? It has become such a big farce. 

[Losang_Tenpa]

I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.

This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.

I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.

[WisdomBeing]

Thanks for sharing that info, Losang Tenpa. It is so sad that this discrimination is still going on in the Tibetan settlements. Are there still signs condemning Shugden Lamas displayed in public?

[Ganden_follower]

This is extremely saddening to see and learn about. I had been under the impression that things were starting to calm down a bit and that there was a "live and let live" attitude by the majority of people. Especially to hear that people disrespect the sangha jewel out of partisanship and politics by spitting on someone living in the vows simply because they are following their lineage is shocking and sickening.

[Big Uncle]

I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.

This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.

I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.

Ooh! I remember many years ago a story about the monastery's press printing anti-shugden literature and one of the monastery's concrete victory banner was striked down by lightening. It came crashing onto the ground, harming nothing but shaken many of the monks who saw it as a bad omen. If I am not mistaken, it was Drepung and I also heard that Setrap in a trance at Gaden exclaimed that the accident was his doing as he could not stand the injustice done unto Dorje Shugden. That was what i recollect.

Also, I am not surprise that Drepung has signs like that as they probably heeded their Protector's instructions and advice. Their special protector is Nechung and that's probably why they have such signs up. Perhaps, they might even been advice and encouraged by Nechung himself to the monastery placed under his care.

[vajratruth]

I am not sure what to think. I have always thought of monasteries as sanctuaries not centres that practice persecutions, especially when it is a healing centre located on what is supposed to be hallowed grounds. This breaks not only a big handful of monastic codes but also the Hippocratic oath that all medical practitioners have sworn to. And this shows the extent to which the Dorje Shugden ban has caused decay in the moral standards of the Tibetan community creeping even into the sangha.

Such overt discrimination does nothing good for the monastery not Buddhism as a whole, and for this monastery in particular, it would be difficult for the monks and students to understand the concept of Bodhicitta and Equanimity with this discrimination casting a huge shadow over their intended purpose of teaching the Dharma.

Thank you for putting up this picture and post. It's a good reminder than the ban is still in effect and it has just strengthened my resolve to do something about it.

[honeydakini]

Losang Tenpa, I'm so sad to hear of the discrimination you've faced, from lay people no less! I'm so sorry you have had to go through all this. It is so brave of you and all the Shar Gaden monks to persevere in your practices in the face of all that you have to face. Thank you for doing this on behalf of all Dorje Shugden practitioners in the world.

What sad times it is that lay people could feel it is their right to spit on a sangha and act with so much hostility towards ordained monks and nuns, and that they are being virtuous and religious by doing this! Isn't it so very sad that all this is happening in religion BECAUSE of a religious ban? The irony of it all baffles me to no end.

How can any religious edict be justified a being acceptable and well, RELIGIOUS, if it encourages the mistreatment of monks, monastic communities to split and violence of any kind?

As sad as it is though, I am glad we are able to talk about it in this space and thank you Kate for posting this up. I think we can never talk about it enough, raise awareness and let that small CTA-controlled Tibetan community know that the world knows of the kind of discrimination they are encouraging and allowing.

[Ensapa]

This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.

I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.

It's good to know that you have made friends with the more open minded people there and that the Dalai Lama's ban is slowly fading away. I would not expect it to be gone or lifted immediately, but as time passes and there is no reason for the people to uphold the ban and they do Dorje Shugden anyway, and slowly the ban will melt away. Over the years, the Dalai Lama's influence has waned incredibly and when his influence wanes, so will the ban on Dorje Shugden. How kind the Dalai Lama is to sacrifice is influence and his fame for the sake of Dorje Shugden's rise. The Big Picture is getting clearer now.

[DharmaDefender]

I thought all doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath to practise medicine ethically and honestly. Is it according to the oath that the doctors deny treatment to Shugden practitioners? Even when at war, medics are compelled to treat the injured enemy and POWs...but I guess thats not the case in the Tibetan settlements.

[Ensapa]

I thought all doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath to practise medicine ethically and honestly. Is it according to the oath that the doctors deny treatment to Shugden practitioners? Even when at war, medics are compelled to treat the injured enemy and POWs...but I guess thats not the case in the Tibetan settlements.

Tibetans are a special breed of people for many reasons, and this is one of the reasons where they can justify negative actions with "But i'm following the Dalai Lama and this is what he would have wanted" and it seems that it is out of selfishness that the ban is put in place, you know, coz people dont want to be against the Dalai Lama as it would mean going to hell and the like. On one hand, their Guru devotion is admirable, but on the other, they seem to think that it is an easy way out from actually practicing and applying the teachings. But there is good news of the ban slowly melting, so there is hope in the near future that such blatant discrimination be lifted.

[honeydakini]

I'm just wondering if signs like these are put up in monasteries by the monastery officials themselves, or if they are orders issued by the CTA or secular governing bodies? I would understand the pressures that monasteries would feel from political bodies like the CTA and have to therefore comply to putting something like this even if it is against what they believe or is something that they wouldn't particularly wish to do themselves.

I would be a lot more surprised and saddened if this was something done of the monasteries' own volition though. Why would any monasteries put up signs against other practitioners or practices? That goes against the whole basis of the Buddhist teachings which is to be kind to all sentient beings. If they open their doors to help anyone, including all animals and spirits, then what about fellow human beings? Fellow buddhists? The very Dharma brothers that they might have even studied and grown up with? 

Would anyone know what really goes on behind why these signs are put up? and who decides whether to put them up or not?

[WisdomBeing]

Either way, whether instructed or voluntarily placed, the signs are awful and the very antithesis of the inclusiveness and loving kindness of Buddhism. I can just about understand the hostility of lay Buddhists to Dorje Shugden practitioners due to ignorance etc (see http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3179.0) but for discrimination to be so blatantly displaced in a monastic setting is very sad.

As i always try to look on the positive side, i wonder if the sign was deliberately put up to bring attention to the ban. After all, why is it translated to English?? Every monk would be able to read Tibetan (and if they don't, it is unlikely that they would read English either!) so why put the sign in English unless it is to subtly remind westerners that the ban is in place and to please help. Just a thought.

[dsiluvu]

Ooh! I remember many years ago a story about the monastery's press printing anti-shugden literature and one of the monastery's concrete victory banner was striked down by lightening. It came crashing onto the ground, harming nothing but shaken many of the monks who saw it as a bad omen. If I am not mistaken, it was Drepung and I also heard that Setrap in a trance at Gaden exclaimed that the accident was his doing as he could not stand the injustice done unto Dorje Shugden. That was what i recollect.

Also, I am not surprise that Drepung has signs like that as they probably heeded their Protector's instructions and advice. Their special protector is Nechung and that's probably why they have such signs up. Perhaps, they might even been advice and encouraged by Nechung himself to the monastery placed under his care.

BIG Uncle... I really don't get it... IF Nechung was the one who asked Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen to rise as the future protector of Je Tsongkhapa'a teachings... why on earth would he advice HHDL and others to ban Dorje Shugden??? It totally does not make any sense at all. Or could it be that it was not Nechung in the first place since there are many other types of Pehars that could take trance in the oracle. If I am not mistaken Nechung has 5 Pehars/Spirits that serves Tibet??? Correct me if I am wrong.

Also how does anyone know that it was really Nechung who told HHDL that Dorje Shugden is wrong and bad? It could have probably be made up as an excuse... how do we really know? And if it was really Nechung, how do we know if it was the same Nechung as the one that requested TDG to become a Dharma Protector, since there are 5 spirits that can enter the oracle to speak. Everything seems so twisted really.

[dsiluvu]

This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.

I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.

So sorry to hear this Lobsang Tenpa! Why do you think such a huge Human Rights issue have not been addressed by the Indian Govt or the West? Have you yourself tried writing to the authorities like the UN etc and share your personal experience??? If not, really you should!

I guess those that are open minded, you know they have been forced and it was not their will to put up such signs of discrimination... if they do not put it up, they themselves will probably get in to trouble. I suppose your transformation, you being kinder, more helpful, more forgiving, more generous and more patient would show them that Shugden monks are real practitioners of the Buddhas teachings. From you actions that is real and sincere is where people will be inspired. There is really nothing more meaningful and better then to be a true monk and lead by example