Discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners at a Monastery

[Barzin]

Actually I find it very amusing and yet very petty.  I do agree if some serious rules passed down from some sort of great power but we are talking about Tibet where as majority of the people wouldn't care less what is going on.  Because of strong faith and religion matters, this has caused them inconveniences and an uproar to have a voice.  Maybe this is why overnight Tibet has been the talk of the town.  This is like a sign telling you do not entering because you have eaten ice cream before.  Well, even if you had I don't think you will turn around and not enter the shop because you require their services.  Yes, I understand the consequences upon the sanghas and lay people if they go against the rules.  As long as the sign stays, it just doesn't make sense how they can detect people in this way.

[Losang_Tenpa]

Just to recount another incident that happened this past year:

One of our senior monks, who attends puja every morning, was walking back in the rain to the labrang where he lives one morning when he slipped and fell on the side of the road. As it turns out, there were no other Shar Gaden monks with him to offer assistance.
As monks walked by from other monasteries, he asked for help from them as he could not get up from the muddy ground on his own. He was completely ignored and left in the mud for almost 10 minutes as monks from other monasteries walked by as if he did not exist.
It wasn't until a monk from his labrang came by that he was helped to his feet and led home.
This broke the hearts of many of our monks as this senior monk is loved and admired by literally hundreds of monks from our monastery.
To this senior monk's credit, he holds no anger or bitterness at those who refused to help him. For those that know him, it would be impossible to fathom this monk holding anything but love and compassion in his heart.



As for me, I still see the monk who spit at me from time to time. He often watches me as I walk by the Shartse bookshop on my way to classes. When I look at him, I try to smile, although he has yet to reciprocate. I will keep trying.

Some of the monks I know have suffered unimaginable things due to this ban. Families have been ripped apart, students split from their teachers and Gurus etc..
What I have experienced in just a speck of what others have gone through.


The over-all feeling I get, and this is just my opinion, is that the worst is in the past.

May this be a new dawn rising.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Losang Tenpa, I have most respect and admiration for you and all the monks in your situation. All of you have chose to continue with DS practice despite all the ill treatments and abuses you are going through. Some of the situations are not even religious based anymore. Yet, you bear no grudges to those who have mistreated you and still have all the love and compassion in your hearts for them. There is so much peace within you and no trace of violence at all.  All these reinforces my faith in Dorje Shugden that he is such a compassionate Buddha and not a spirit as claimed by the many people. May all these contribute to the lifting of the ban and everyone can do their practice openly without any discrimination.

[beggar]

Thank you for sharing your experiences - although I do wish I could be thanking you for something much different than this!

I say thank you because I do think it is important to let people know what is still happening and how the discrimination against Shugdenpas continues to rage. I have seen on other forums and various medias online that anti-shugdenpas maintain this stance that there is no real evidence for discrimination against Shugden practitioners - this is a preposterous and terrible claim that denies every kind of suffering that Shugdenpas have had to endure. I know that many of these wonderful practitioners and lamas in the monasteries will never speak about it nor complain, for they hold no grudges in their heart. But I do think it is important to highlight what is going on - as clear evidence of this abuse of human rights if nothing else, and as evidence to show that the supposed government and secular protector of the Tibetan people (the CTA) are not doing anything to really look after the welfare of all their people equally.

Losang Tenpa, if you have any further visual evidence of what is happening in the monasteries (such as the picture posted on this thread of the sign disallowing entry to Shugdenpas), please do continue to share it here. The world needs to see, plain and simple, what is going on.

[samayakeeper]

Does that mean animal pets are allowed into the monastery but not Shugdenpas? This is not a question but my thinking aloud that Shugdenpas are treated worse than animals (no disrespect or disdain to animals).

Sheesh!

And to think that Buddhism is about practicing compassion and love but the blatant sign in this monastery says it all. Then there are worse signs, words and actions written, spoken and done by the people in CTA and their cronies.

[Ensapa]

thank you for the beautiful update, losang tenpa. It is quite heartening to know how the Shar Ganden monks are not holding any negative emotions against the Ganden Shartse monks who are treating them badly. This shows them the true strength of their Dharma practice. I feel very sorry for the monks who ignored the old monk who slipped and fell -- their negative karma would be immense. I really hope he is recovering well now and he will be okay soon. I can agree that the discrimination is very ugly but all the same, i can say that all of these actions are not necessary and they could have helped him and gone on their way instead of just ignoring him.

[beggar]

Does that mean animal pets are allowed into the monastery but not Shugdenpas? This is not a question but my thinking aloud that Shugdenpas are treated worse than animals (no disrespect or disdain to animals).

There are elaborate rituals and pujas where beings of the spirit / hungry ghost realm are invited to partake in offerings; there are even very extensive torma offerings made to these spirits and potentially harmful, evil beings. We make offerings to appease them and make them happy, and we advise them, through the puja, to listen to the Buddha and receive Dharma.

But Shugdenpas are turned away from even entering the premises.

Why is it that in almost all prayers, we talk about the wish to benefit all mother sentient beings? At the beginning of the lama chopa, we recite a motivation that "for the sake of all mother sentient beings, I will now engage in the guru puja". But we must exclude Dorje Shugden practitioners, shun them and not help them. How is it Buddhist, or in any accordance of any of our Bodhisattva or Tantric vows, to exclude any being from our prayers and help? This is what is most baffling.

The Dalai Lama himself welcomes people of all religious faiths, aetheists, even satanic worshippers to his talks, teachings, initiations. But Dorje Shugden practitioners must not even enter the same premise of his talks. How this is logical, fair or in accordance with any Buddhist practice is far beyond me.

[Ensapa]

There are elaborate rituals and pujas where beings of the spirit / hungry ghost realm are invited to partake in offerings; there are even very extensive torma offerings made to these spirits and potentially harmful, evil beings. We make offerings to appease them and make them happy, and we advise them, through the puja, to listen to the Buddha and receive Dharma.

But Shugdenpas are turned away from even entering the premises.

Why is it that in almost all prayers, we talk about the wish to benefit all mother sentient beings? At the beginning of the lama chopa, we recite a motivation that "for the sake of all mother sentient beings, I will now engage in the guru puja". But we must exclude Dorje Shugden practitioners, shun them and not help them. How is it Buddhist, or in any accordance of any of our Bodhisattva or Tantric vows, to exclude any being from our prayers and help? This is what is most baffling.

The Dalai Lama himself welcomes people of all religious faiths, aetheists, even satanic worshippers to his talks, teachings, initiations. But Dorje Shugden practitioners must not even enter the same premise of his talks. How this is logical, fair or in accordance with any Buddhist practice is far beyond me.

What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, but it is his followers themselves that do so just so that they can gain the Dalai Lama's favor or to get into his good books (or so they think). What's wrong with just leaving the Dorje Shugden practitioners alone and you yourself dont practice it? That sounds like a very nice solution to things. After all, whether or not who is a Dorje Shugden practitioner is not anyone's business because Dorje Shugden is a tantric practice and there is no reason for others to learn about it.

[Losang_Tenpa]

What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, .....

Unfortunately, this is not true. He has specifically ask that they be removed from their monasteries if they do not give up the practice. That, to me, is about as drastic as it gets in terms of alienation.
He has also asked that others not share resources etc....

He was actually very specific and direct on this point.

[Ensapa]

What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, .....

Unfortunately, this is not true. He has specifically ask that they be removed from their monasteries if they do not give up the practice. That, to me, is about as drastic as it gets in terms of alienation.
He has also asked that others not share resources etc....

He was actually very specific and direct on this point.

Hmm. But to the western media and sources outside of Tibet, he only says that people who practice Dorje Shugden should not come to his teachings. So why is it so different when it is for Dharamsala and when it is for the rest of the world? Dharamsala = be inhumane to Dorje Shugden practioners, rest of the world = just dont practice Dorje Shugden. It's a very baffling inconsistency for Cherenzig, i must say. Although in some way the remove from monasteries part i get, but what i dont get is did the Dalai Lama ever said to react violently to people who do not give up Dorje Shugden?

[Manjushri]

I have also seen a sign like this in a temple I went to whilst I visited Asia. Basically, It wrote that if you practise Dorje Shugden, you are not allowed to enter the temple or partake in any of its activities. It was pasted right infront of the main door and it was my first time coming across such a sign.

It's weird how extreme these Buddhist take matters to. As a real practitioner, shouldn't one be all accepting and forgiving. Shouldn't one respect the choices and religion someone else chooses. Ridiculing Dorje Shugden practitioners is exactly the same as ridiculing someone who chooses to believe and follow a different religious faith.. It's unfair isn't it. Would a Shartse monk ridicule someone who is Christian? Of course not! So taking the same analogy, he should not ridicule DS monks too! And best of all..they're both Buddhists.

In today's world, it is sad that occurences such as this is taking place. 

[Losang_Tenpa]

The circumstances concerning how this particular picture was taken are actually a bit ironic. On the day the photo was taken, it was raining very heavy and a friend and I were walking down the road next to the Drepung Loseling Clinic. As we were passing by, a monk sitting on the steps to the clinic waved us over to take shelter with him on the steps of the clinic. It wasn't until we had been standing there for about 15 minutes that we noticed this sign almost directly over our heads. I then asked my friend to discreetly take this picture.
Drepung Loseling is a a bit far from Gaden, at least in terms of normal everyday travel for monks, so none of the monks there seem to know who we are. It is very different near Gaden where everyone has seen us around and knows we are from Shar Gaden.

Anyway, we had a laugh about it. What would the old monk have said if I had indirectly flashed my Shar Gaden I.D. card? Who know, maybe nothing. Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.

[Losang_Tenpa]

I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.

The circumstances concerning how this particular picture was taken are actually a bit ironic. On the day the photo was taken, it was raining very heavy and a friend and I were walking down the road next to the Drepung Loseling Clinic. As we were passing by, a monk sitting on the steps to the clinic waved us over to take shelter with him on the steps of the clinic. It wasn't until we had been standing there for about 15 minutes that we noticed this sign almost directly over our heads. I then asked my friend to discreetly take this picture.
Drepung Loseling is a a bit far from Gaden, at least in terms of normal everyday travel for monks, so none of the monks there seem to know who we are. It is very different near Gaden where everyone has seen us around and knows we are from Shar Gaden.

Anyway, we had a laugh about it. What would the old monk have said if I had indirectly flashed my Shar Gaden I.D. card? Who know, maybe nothing. Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.

[Zach]

Just to recount another incident that happened this past year:

One of our senior monks, who attends puja every morning, was walking back in the rain to the labrang where he lives one morning when he slipped and fell on the side of the road. As it turns out, there were no other Shar Gaden monks with him to offer assistance.
As monks walked by from other monasteries, he asked for help from them as he could not get up from the muddy ground on his own. He was completely ignored and left in the mud for almost 10 minutes as monks from other monasteries walked by as if he did not exist.
It wasn't until a monk from his labrang came by that he was helped to his feet and led home.
This broke the hearts of many of our monks as this senior monk is loved and admired by literally hundreds of monks from our monastery.
To this senior monk's credit, he holds no anger or bitterness at those who refused to help him. For those that know him, it would be impossible to fathom this monk holding anything but love and compassion in his heart.



As for me, I still see the monk who spit at me from time to time. He often watches me as I walk by the Shartse bookshop on my way to classes. When I look at him, I try to smile, although he has yet to reciprocate. I will keep trying.

Some of the monks I know have suffered unimaginable things due to this ban. Families have been ripped apart, students split from their teachers and Gurus etc..
What I have experienced in just a speck of what others have gone through.


The over-all feeling I get, and this is just my opinion, is that the worst is in the past.

May this be a new dawn rising.

This is heart breaking it makes me very sad

[beggar]

Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.

Losang Tenpa - the story is a good one, thanks!

It's interesting what you say about older monks 'ignoring' the issue as much as they can. Do you really think it's because they want to 'avoid having to deal with it' or is it more that they really do not have any ill wish towards Shugden practitioners and wish to just turn a blind eye, as it were - in other words, to continue interacting with them as if there was no problem?

It is however, very saddening to hear that it is the young (and probably more energetic) monks that are implementing these measures. It's likely they'll have far more stamina and energy to keep such strict measures going and far less willing to compromise or turn a blind eye. What do they really get out of it, I wonder?