Funny and delusional comment I found against Shugdenpas

[Ensapa]

I found this really crazy comment at The Hindustan Times article about the Dorje Shugden parcel:
(source:http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab/Chandigarh/Breakaway-Tibetan-Buddhists-threaten-the-Dalai-Lama/SP-Article1-968931.aspx)

Abhinav  Thomas Ythan Jones • 3 months ago
Thomas Ythan Jones. Hi Thomas, i am sure you got this information from South Indian shugden society and let me tell you that i too was one of many who first doubted wether this was true but since then i have been to Mundgod, Bylakupee and Kollegal (three big tibetan settlements in south india) and i even inquired with the locals about the situation, what they told me brought tears to my eyes, the shugden followers were the ones who attacked their home with bottles and stones and even some elders were admitted to the local hospital. Since then the shopkeepers and restaurant owners in the village decided they won't let these criminals inside their territory. And they even informed the then the Tibetan government in exile, nowadays Central Tibetan Administration, although the administration and the Dalai Lam's private office later asked the people to remain calm and requested not to fight back. Few months later the shugden follower asked one international news channel (Al-Jezeera if i am not wrong) to come and see how they were banned from entering the restaurant and shops in the community and they even went as far as saying this is the Dalai Lama's orders. Do you really think that the Dalai Lama would even say something like this, the people just don't follow him blind folded, they follow him with the knowledge that he is the true symbol of a good leader, a leader on whom they know from their heart. I also had a brief talk with one shugden follower ( i won't use his name here) and he told me some interesting facts, he has been shugden devotee for a long time now but he still has faith in Dalai Lama and he thinks there is no other leader that could lead Tibetans like him, he told me that he doesn't know any of the shugden people who attacked the Tibetan village and doubts about their whereabouts. He also went on and said he has a lot of non-shugden followers and they are fine with each other. As for your question, the peoples who killed three monks in Dharamsala and fled were seen in Tibet, later in Beijing with some Chinese officials and last seen in Nepal with some huge amount of cash with them before disappearing. Nobody knows where they went after that. Like i said i studied Tibetan community for a couple of years now which is more than enough for me to get my facts right. What about you Thomas?
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Is this guy for real? I dont think so the Shugdenpas would waste their time attacking the townsfolk and killing anyone...and if that did happen why are there no records of it? Again, perhaps, there are so many weird people on the internet making up stories and such.

What do you guys think?

[Big Uncle]

This is quite sick. How can they lie and twist facts like that. This is such a bad cover up as there are no names, pictures and videos to justify their claims of Shugden involvement in their allegations. On the Shugden side, we have plenty of videos, pictures and names, which are fair evidence for the crimes of the ban and the discrimination suffered by Dorje Shugden practitioners. Therefore, to me this is a very obvious cover up and I think a very poor cover up for what happened. Therefore, this whole piece is an unjustifiable lie and this leads me to think that either they got the information directly from an agent of CTA and they didn't care to investigate the matter or they were bribe into giving this information.   

[Losang_Tenpa]

I have video evidence from when Dokhang Khangtsen was attacked by a mob back in 1998. On the video you can see both laymen and monks throwing rocks and other objects at the khangtsen and monks inside.
I was told that there was a mandate in all of the local Tibetan camps that anyone who failed to show up and protest against Dokhang Khantsen, their family would be fined.
Very disturbing footage.

Dokhang Khangtsen is the Khangtsen that would later become Shar Gaden Monastery.
The protest I mentioned took place as Dokhang Khangtsen was hosting a gathering of Dorje Shugden devotees from all over the world. While the mob outside hurled objects and insults, the monks inside peaceful continued their meeting, dedicating their efforts in the end to lasting peace.

[beggar]

I highly doubt that these attacks would be fabricated to an extent that high Lamas like Trijang Rinpoche would literally have to flee the monastery and leave India for the safety of their own lives. I highly doubt that people would really attack themselves just to prove a point - mostly, Shugdenpas want to just be allowed to practice in peace. There is enough turmoil in not being able to see their teachers or fellow monks, or to be cut off mainstream Tibetan community. Would they really add more strife? It seems highly unlikely.

In any case, there is plenty of other advice as to the discrimination against Shugdenpas, that would certainly not be inflicted by Shugden practitioners. For example,  the shocking incident of the nuns of Gaden Choeling nunnery destroying a DS statue, or the signs being put up all over monasteries and the Tibetan communities denying entry to Shugden practitioners. These could hardly be made up by Shugden people.

[Ensapa]

What I do find really shocking about reading this sort of thing is how people gobble it up whole without any proof and comments like that are left there. It would be great if there was more evidence of violence against Dorje Shugden practitioners so that we can use them as evidence to support our claims. I do find everything about that particular post very disturbing because that particular person has either been misled or bribed to write such comments on the net and what is posted on the net stays there. If only I had some evidence that it is not true, I would have posted there also but that site does not allow anyone to post links or else their posts will be deleted.

[Rihanna]

What I do find really shocking about reading this sort of thing is how people gobble it up whole without any proof and comments like that are left there. It would be great if there was more evidence of violence against Dorje Shugden practitioners so that we can use them as evidence to support our claims. I do find everything about that particular post very disturbing because that particular person has either been misled or bribed to write such comments on the net and what is posted on the net stays there. If only I had some evidence that it is not true, I would have posted there also but that site does not allow anyone to post links or else their posts will be deleted.

Interesting view point but I think what is more shocking is how people gobble all this up without asking any questions! Never mind proof which is up to the anti-Shugden people to produce, but for all the followers of the Dalai Lama who follow unquestioningly and then repeat the same nonsense to everyone else...it is quite sad that for many, they have been given a brain but fail to use it!

[Mana]

If you have videos of the attack on Dokhang Khamtsen, please do post it up for all to see. We will be glad to host the video to bring attention to thousands.

Mana

[Ensapa]

I wonder what is the real intention of the person who posted this comment? is it to defame Dorje Shugden practitioners or to justify their violence against Dorje Shugden practitioners? It makes me wonder on so many levels because the comment never mentions why did the Dorje Shugden practitioners attack the villages and there must be a reason why if it was a real story. The fact that it does not have shows that it is a false story, but why would someone even make such a statement? Is it necessary to spread lies and fairytales about things that you do not like...or simply believe what people say and take them as the truth without further investigation? this is why sometimes i find that supposedly Buddhists are odd.

[Losang_Tenpa]

Here is the video of Dhokhang Khangtsen being attacked by an angry mob.
This was during the Millennium Conference of the Dorje Shugden Society being hosted by Dhokhang Khangtsen back in 1998 I believe ( I will find out for sure the exact date).
This clip is part of a longer video about these types of attacks against Dorje Shugden practitioners.
I will try to upload the remaining video soon.

Violent Protest Against Dhokhang Khangtsen	Small | Large

[beggar]

This is shocking. Where did you find this video from Losang Tenpa? Please do find us more information about the video, the circumstances and what actually happened on the day. It is shocking and extremely sad to hear that there was even a mandate against these people, that they would be fined if they didn't join these protests?

So does this mean that the CTA and authorities are actually behind all this violence? This calls to mind a recent article published on this website about violence within Tibetan Buddhism (using in this case, video evidence about the physical violent attacks in rumtek monastery: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/how-can-there-be-violence-in-paradise/). Indeed, how can there be violence in what is supposed to be paradise?

And why, above all, does the CTA always remain so quiet in cases of violence? In more recent times, they are also keeping extraordinarily quiet about the self-immolations. This could only lead us to think that their silence is compliance / encouragement of these very acts of violence. Could it be? And if so, what kind of government does this - to incite violence against their own people, who they are supposed to protect?

[Ensapa]

This is shocking. Where did you find this video from Losang Tenpa? Please do find us more information about the video, the circumstances and what actually happened on the day. It is shocking and extremely sad to hear that there was even a mandate against these people, that they would be fined if they didn't join these protests?

So does this mean that the CTA and authorities are actually behind all this violence? This calls to mind a recent article published on this website about violence within Tibetan Buddhism (using in this case, video evidence about the physical violent attacks in rumtek monastery: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/how-can-there-be-violence-in-paradise/). Indeed, how can there be violence in what is supposed to be paradise?

And why, above all, does the CTA always remain so quiet in cases of violence? In more recent times, they are also keeping extraordinarily quiet about the self-immolations. This could only lead us to think that their silence is compliance / encouragement of these very acts of violence. Could it be? And if so, what kind of government does this - to incite violence against their own people, who they are supposed to protect?

It seems to me that the CTA is an advocate of violence and that they are proud of their roots of being savage warriors, even if it means going against their state religion, Buddhism. The self immolations are without a doubt started and instigated by the CTA and all these acts of violence are allowed to happen in Dharamsala. How can they hope to get Tibet back when they dont even do anything about violence in their own backyard? How can they rule people and control them if they do not even stop violence from happening in their land? The CTA should work very hard to be an actual government and take care of their citizens irregardless of religion or creed but it seems that they only want the shortcut which is through the attention generated by self immolations...that will crumble soon and when that happens...CTA will go down to a new low.

[Gabby Potter]

This is actually pretty messed up, these people really have nothing better to do in life man. This is not a small matter, we can't just make up stories like that and blame everything on the innocents. In my opinion, I really do not believe that Shugden practitioners did that, as if like they didn't have anything better to do in life? Hello?! Do not forget there's still a ban, who would do things like this when you actually do not even have the time to get the ban lifted? Just some of my thoughts.

[Dondrup Shugden]

There are not many such absurd accusations against the Shugdenpas as there is no proof.  But it is nice that this article is revived so that non Tibetan Shugdenpas will not be shocked when confronted with this type of accusations.

As faithful Shugden devotees, we must not be derailed by such lies as there is nothing in our doctrine that will teach or even mention such unkind acts of lying. The tradition of Dorje Shugden is swift and fast assistance to all in need and a Protector who protects without discrimination.