Oracle that does healing

[harrynephew]

There's a video of an oracle doing healing circulating in FB lately. I find that some of the information from the video is not accurate. What I dont understand is that they do not even disclose the name of the deity who is taking trance. Could someone shed light on this?

http://youtu.be/lei7gSQJPIQ
	Small | Large

[Ensapa]

This is interesting. This video does not seem to originate from the temple who invited the oracle but from someone else doing a documentary of the oracle, which is probably why they did not get the name of the deity that the oracle takes trance of. If the video was done by the temple, they would have listed the name of the deity clearly. It seems that now even oracles are going around the world, but what I am wondering is whether or not this oracle was approved or trained by a qualified Lama? If she is not trained or approved, wouldnt it be a little dangerous as we would not know who would be taking trance?

[Big Uncle]

I believe that there are many protector deities that exist in the Tibetan pantheon and not all of them are enlightened. The unenlightened deities are mostly oath-bound deities that were subjugated by Guru Rinpoche or other High Lamas and placed under oath to protect the Dharma. Besides that, like people, these powerful spirits, nagas and so forth manifest their presence through those with oracular abilities.

Like ordinary people, these beings have personalities and abilities, some have the ability to heal and are very powerful healers. The Lamas of the past encourage oracles with this ability because they are able to help people to heal and collect positive karma in this way. They are no part of the 3 Jewels and should not be prayed to in the manner of how we pray to the Buddha. However, we do make offerings to them to thank them for the assistance that they have rendered to us.

[WisdomBeing]

Oh dear, this video appears to have been removed by the user. What a pity - i am fascinated by oracles and wanted to take a look. I guess I should come back to the forum more often LOL

In any case, how do oracles heal people? If people have the karma to be sick, can the protector deity change that karma by alleviating or even curing the illness? Or is the answer that the sick person has the karma to meet the oracle to get healed? I remember reading somewhere that Buddha said that he could not remove someone's negative karma, so can the protector deities change people's karma? I'm curious what people think.

[Ensapa]

Oh dear, this video appears to have been removed by the user. What a pity - i am fascinated by oracles and wanted to take a look. I guess I should come back to the forum more often LOL

In any case, how do oracles heal people? If people have the karma to be sick, can the protector deity change that karma by alleviating or even curing the illness? Or is the answer that the sick person has the karma to meet the oracle to get healed? I remember reading somewhere that Buddha said that he could not remove someone's negative karma, so can the protector deities change people's karma? I'm curious what people think.

I'm thinking that the oracles heal people by providing the condition to where the disease might heal, much like how modern medicine heals the body by removing the condition for the disease to arise (i.e. killing bateria, boosting white blood cells in the body) but I could be wrong. I dont think so any being can tamper with one's karma but at the same time it could happen that the deity might have caused a shift in karma that might cause positive karma to ripen instantly but leave a vacuum of negative karma in the future.

[dsiluvu]

Errrmmmm looks like the video has been removed! Anyways it is not uncommon to hear of oracle healers and in there are still many cultures and faiths up till today still practicing this type of spiritual trance healing.

The question I have is where are these deities coming from? I have heard some of them are spirits or worldly gods that after doing you the favour requires you to pay them back!?! They are not always nice and certainly not "enlightened" beings like Dorje Shugden who is an Enlightened deity that does not require you to worship or pay him back/make offerings/built temples etc for them, and would not even get angry with you if you don't. But some of these other deities they can get very upset if you do not pay them back for helping you. I am not too sure and would not be too keen seek such oracles. Usually people fall for this due to desperation and when they do not know any better. In this sense I am glad I have met the Dharma and know of this difference. This is probably why we should strongly educate people on oracles so they know the difference.

One of my favourite inspirational reads is this autobiography of His Eminence Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama http://www.dorjeshugden.com/great-masters/recent-masters/autobiography-of-his-eminence-choyang-duldzin-kuten-lama/

From reading the article above, you realise a true practitioner of Dorje Shugden is never biased or sectarian and so is Dorje Shugden! They care and heal just about anyone who comes to them and request their help. So why all this fuss about sectarianism?

[dsiluvu]

And why would you need any other deities which you are unsure of to help or heal you when you got an "enlightened" within your own lineage?

Oh this is one of my all time favourite video of Dorje Shugden taking trance into the oracle. Dorje Shugden taking full trance in Shar Gaden monastery to officiate the grand opening of SHar Gaden! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/official-opening-of-shar-gaden-monastery-confirmed/

The Oracle taking trance of wrathful Dorje Shugden at Shar Gaden Monastery, Oct 2009	Small | Large

[Rihanna]

Oh dear, this video appears to have been removed by the user. What a pity - i am fascinated by oracles and wanted to take a look. I guess I should come back to the forum more often LOL

In any case, how do oracles heal people? If people have the karma to be sick, can the protector deity change that karma by alleviating or even curing the illness? Or is the answer that the sick person has the karma to meet the oracle to get healed? I remember reading somewhere that Buddha said that he could not remove someone's negative karma, so can the protector deities change people's karma? I'm curious what people think.

I believe the sick person needs to have the karma to be healed, just like how they "need" to have the karma to suffer the disease. Even if they are healed, they will still suffer the karma of their illnesses somewhere else down the line. Do not forget that we have many more lives ahead of us before we reach enlightenment, so it does not necessarily mean that just because the illness doesn't happen now, it will never happen. Karma can be accumulated and the effects can be spread out over a period of time. For example, if I am supposed to get into a bad car accident and die, perhaps the protector might save me from death and I walk away from the accident with a broken leg, some bruises. But the shock of the incident will purify some of my karma to receive that harm, and perhaps I might receive the remainder later on. So just because an oracle can heal someone, does not mean they might not suffer ill health later. It is just a matter of when, and the severity.

[Ensapa]

I believe the sick person needs to have the karma to be healed, just like how they "need" to have the karma to suffer the disease. Even if they are healed, they will still suffer the karma of their illnesses somewhere else down the line. Do not forget that we have many more lives ahead of us before we reach enlightenment, so it does not necessarily mean that just because the illness doesn't happen now, it will never happen. Karma can be accumulated and the effects can be spread out over a period of time. For example, if I am supposed to get into a bad car accident and die, perhaps the protector might save me from death and I walk away from the accident with a broken leg, some bruises. But the shock of the incident will purify some of my karma to receive that harm, and perhaps I might receive the remainder later on. So just because an oracle can heal someone, does not mean they might not suffer ill health later. It is just a matter of when, and the severity.

Thank you for your explanation there on how they heal on a karmic level. Yes, that is the danger when we heal with oracles who are not enlightened: they do not know whether or not if healing us now would bring about karmic vacuums in the future. The deity itself may have good intentions, but they have their limits in understanding karma and seeing the future, and thus they might have altered something in the arrangement of how karma would eventually ripen. So in that aspect, oracles are dangerous, especially the unenlightened ones. The better thing to do would be to liberate lives and to do purification practices if possible.

[Manjushri]

I am sure that oracles can heal, especially if the oracle is legit and taking trance of an enligtened being such as Setrab, Dorje Shugden, etc. I have seen it with my eyes. I heard that Gangchen Rinpoche was also healed by an oracle in trance when he was really sick at one point. So definitely, oracles can heal when taking trance of an enlightened being.

Of course, as what Rihanna said, the person has to have the merits to receive such a great honour, but it definitely does not mean that they are protected forever. Merits run out, karma catches up, that's the way of life.

With response to what Wisdom Being said:

"Oh dear, this video appears to have been removed by the user. What a pity - i am fascinated by oracles and wanted to take a look. I guess I should come back to the forum more often LOL

In any case, how do oracles heal people? If people have the karma to be sick, can the protector deity change that karma by alleviating or even curing the illness? Or is the answer that the sick person has the karma to meet the oracle to get healed? I remember reading somewhere that Buddha said that he could not remove someone's negative karma, so can the protector deities change people's karma? I'm curious what people think."

I guess the merit lies in the hands of the person in that they have the chance/karma/fate/destiny to be healed by the oracle. The Buddha cannot take away what we created and deserve, but through our actions and merits gained, I guess a Buddha or one's guru can lessen the negative karma. It is because of one's blessings from the guru that one is able to meet an oracle..so the blessing lies in one's samaya with one's guru?

Anyways, I stumbled upon a post on oracles that I thought was excellent.:

Brilliant explanation on Oracles:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=826.0

[Ensapa]

I am sure that oracles can heal, especially if the oracle is legit and taking trance of an enligtened being such as Setrab, Dorje Shugden, etc. I have seen it with my eyes. I heard that Gangchen Rinpoche was also healed by an oracle in trance when he was really sick at one point. So definitely, oracles can heal when taking trance of an enlightened being.

Yup, I agree that when oracles take trance of enlightened beings, they can heal because its not just Gangchen Rinpoche that I have saw that happening, but also of my own Lama. He was very sick at one point and his life was in danger but Dorje Shugden told the oracle to come visit my Lama all the way here in the west from Taiwan and took trance and healed him. But those are enlightened beings and not just ordinary deities whose omniscience has their limits, so they're more trustworthy than those who are not enlightened. A lot of cultures around the world have the tradition of oracles where they seek the assistance of nonworldly beings for help, but that does not mean the beings will be okay if you dont pay them the way they want you to. Enlightened beings will not give such issues.