Kache Marpos practice

[DharmaDefender]

Someone asked this on the Dorje Shugden Facebook page and there hasnt been a good answer yet (or any for that matter!)

Can someone tell me whether Kache Marpo is also know as the "Deity wearing a golden armour"?The strange thing is that the Dalai Lama banned the practice of Dorje Shudgen but not Kache Marpo, since they are actually not separable. I do not know anyone who has gotten initiation of Kache Marpo and I have not even seen his sadana only his heart mantra. Is this suppose to be a very secretive deity?

Anyone know the answer? Ive never seen a Kache Marpo sadhana although I guess if hes inseparable from Dorje Shugden, praying to the King automatically propitiates his acolyte too

[dsiluvu]

Kache Marpo is the main attendant to Dorje Shugden alongside Namkar Barzin. He is said to be the direct emanation of Hayagriva. Although Kache Marpo takes the appearance of a wordly form, he is fully enlightened.

Hayagriva is the wrathful form of Avalokiteshvara. His compassion transforms itself as a fierce and strong energy. He manifests his compassion through wrath to force us to overcome both our inner and outer worldly obstacles, in order for us to practice Dharma smoothly.

Therefore, Kache Marpo being an emanation of a Buddha is an Enlightened Protector. He has his own Pujas, Offerings and Rituals separate from Dorje Shugden’s prayers, because he can be practiced as a Dharma Protector on his own.

I would say He is a secretive deity since He is Dorje Shugden's main assistant but the first question about the "golden amour" I am uncertain    

Got it from... http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/kache-marpo/

[dsiluvu]

This is so far the only prayer we have online here...

Praise to Yaksha Khache Marpo, the Doctrine’s Watchman
by the 5th Dalai Lama



Riding on a saddled precious horse
Having the power of the wind,
Traversing the universe in an instant,
Praise to Yaksha Khache Marpo, the doctrine’s watchman.

Furious mighty being biting the lower lip,
Three eyes blazing the sun and moon watching enemies,
Emanating messengers taking the life of false guides,
Praise to the liberator of the ten enemies.

Wearing leather armor, banners, colored garb and
Leather helmet with a victory banner, treasury of 9 good signs,
Tying enemies with a lasso, piercing their hearts with a lance,
Praise to you and your retinue.

You can get it from here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/prayers/dorje-shugden-prayers/praises-by-the-5th-dalai-lama-to-khache-marpo/

[Ensapa]

Someone asked this on the Dorje Shugden Facebook page and there hasnt been a good answer yet (or any for that matter!)

Can someone tell me whether Kache Marpo is also know as the "Deity wearing a golden armour"?The strange thing is that the Dalai Lama banned the practice of Dorje Shudgen but not Kache Marpo, since they are actually not separable. I do not know anyone who has gotten initiation of Kache Marpo and I have not even seen his sadana only his heart mantra. Is this suppose to be a very secretive deity?

Anyone know the answer? Ive never seen a Kache Marpo sadhana although I guess if hes inseparable from Dorje Shugden, praying to the King automatically propitiates his acolyte too

Kache Marpo is an emanation of Tsui Marpo. "Deity wearing a golden armor" refers to Setrab Chen and that is what Setrab means (Se- Golden, Trab - Armor) Kache Marpo has his own set of practices and initiations, and can be a protector of his own but he chooses to serve Dorje Shugden. We can observe here that he has no ego at all and acts completely with the sole purpose of benefitting other beings, which means that he is enlightened.

 However, the Sakyas hold Setrab, Shugden and Tsui Marpo to be unenlightened protectors, and some 'vocal' students of this tradition has been using this as a reason to criticise these 3 protectors.

[Big Uncle]

Yes, that's right. Setrap is Tibetan for literally 'Golden Cuirass' or armor. Kache Marpo on the other hand literally means 'Red Muslim'. However, I don't know of anybody who had received empowerment of Kache Marpo but I believe before becoming Dorje Shugden's minister, Kache Marpo was Tsui Marpo, the other Sakya Protector. Since, that is the case, there must be plenty of Sakyapas who are practicing Tsui Marpo since Tsui Marpo is one of the main Sakya protectors.

[Ensapa]

Yes, that's right. Setrap is Tibetan for literally 'Golden Cuirass' or armor. Kache Marpo on the other hand literally means 'Red Muslim'. However, I don't know of anybody who had received empowerment of Kache Marpo but I believe before becoming Dorje Shugden's minister, Kache Marpo was Tsui Marpo, the other Sakya Protector. Since, that is the case, there must be plenty of Sakyapas who are practicing Tsui Marpo since Tsui Marpo is one of the main Sakya protectors.

Kache Marpo is one of the main emanations of Tsui Marpo. Tsui Marpo is popular in the Sakya tradition as well in the Nyingma tradition. However, internet scholars have since argued that Tsui Marpo is not enlightened and thus should not be relied upon as a Dharma protector (how absurd!) when there are many texts that prove otherwise. Perhaps, these people are trying to create schism in the community? After all they are online and nobody can exactly verify what they say.

[Rinchen]

This is an very interesting thread. Thank you so much for all the knowledge that is being shared here.

I do believe that when the person asked whether Kache Marpo is also know as the "Deity wearing a golden armour" I believe that he/she just mistook Setrap as Kache Marpo. To me I feel that they have many similarities. When I first say the statue image of Kache Marpo, I thought that it was Setrap. Hence, I feel that the party that asked this question might only have mistaken the two deities.

[Ensapa]

This is an very interesting thread. Thank you so much for all the knowledge that is being shared here.

I do believe that when the person asked whether Kache Marpo is also know as the "Deity wearing a golden armour" I believe that he/she just mistook Setrap as Kache Marpo. To me I feel that they have many similarities. When I first say the statue image of Kache Marpo, I thought that it was Setrap. Hence, I feel that the party that asked this question might only have mistaken the two deities.

Its not surprising as Nechung, Setrap and Kache Marpo all look the same to the untrained eye, only holding different implements which is the only thing that differentiates between them. frankly, sometimes even I have difficulties in telling the differences between these 3 deities as all 3 have the same clothing and facial expression, as if the same person but just holding different objects and in different poses, although from the Buddha's level that is precisely what all the different Buddhas and yidams are in reality.

[lotus1]

Yes, both Setrap & Karche Marpo look alike. At times I also have to look carefully to differentiate them.

Would like to share the writeup on the iconography of Kache Marpo that I extracted from http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/kache-marpo/

Iconography
Kache Marpo’s residence is described to be: A brilliant, splendid brown palace made of leather which is surrounded by a red ocean formed by the blood of horses and men.

The colour of his body is similar to that produced when the sun shines on a huge mountain of coral. He has the shape of a “son of devas”, with one face and two hands. In his right hand he brandishes a red, sharp lance, with which he pierces the heart of an oath-breaker. His left hand, holding a snare of the spirit which is wound around the neck of an obstacle-creating demon, rests in front of his breast.

He wears a leathern cuirass and a leathern helmet adorned with a “banner of victory” with pendants of silk in nine colours. His facial expression is very fierce and he gnaws his lower lip.

His eyes have red-gleaming veins, and they stare full of hatred at the evil vighnas. He sits on a very fierce horse, which has spots white like felt and possesses magic qualities – it is mounted with a priceless saddle and carries a front – belt and other horse trimmings.

There is also a very beautiful thangka for download here:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1502.0

[Ensapa]

Yes, both Setrap & Karche Marpo look alike. At times I also have to look carefully to differentiate them.

Would like to share the writeup on the iconography of Kache Marpo that I extracted from http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/kache-marpo/

Iconography
Kache Marpo’s residence is described to be: A brilliant, splendid brown palace made of leather which is surrounded by a red ocean formed by the blood of horses and men.

The colour of his body is similar to that produced when the sun shines on a huge mountain of coral. He has the shape of a “son of devas”, with one face and two hands. In his right hand he brandishes a red, sharp lance, with which he pierces the heart of an oath-breaker. His left hand, holding a snare of the spirit which is wound around the neck of an obstacle-creating demon, rests in front of his breast.

He wears a leathern cuirass and a leathern helmet adorned with a “banner of victory” with pendants of silk in nine colours. His facial expression is very fierce and he gnaws his lower lip.

His eyes have red-gleaming veins, and they stare full of hatred at the evil vighnas. He sits on a very fierce horse, which has spots white like felt and possesses magic qualities – it is mounted with a priceless saddle and carries a front – belt and other horse trimmings.

There is also a very beautiful thangka for download here:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1502.0

Kache Marpo is actually Tsu Marpo in the form of an enlightened protector. As we all know, some enlightened protectors can manifest both worldly and enlightened forms. The face of a yaksha and the golden armor actually symbolizes that the particular protector is actually enlightened as opposed to the other form where he is not in those vestments. Therefore, one can say that Tsu Marpo consolidated himself to serve Dorje Shugden for the benefit of many, and together with Dorje Setrab, they work to promote and protect the Dharma.

[brian]

Thank you for sharing the infos of the practice and iconography here everyone. I learned a lot. Regarding the argument about Tsui Marpo, Setrab Chen and Karche Marpo to be unenlightened protectors, does anyone know why Sakyas would claim that they are not enlightened while the Gelugs do.

Another question is that why is Setrab Chen, Nechung (for Nechung, it is understood that he is not enlightened) and Kache Marpo look alike ie have the same feature? Both protectors are riding horses and yes they are very difficult to be identified. Is it because of this two protectors have the same emanated purpose and that is why they look almost the same?

[Ensapa]

Thank you for sharing the infos of the practice and iconography here everyone. I learned a lot. Regarding the argument about Tsui Marpo, Setrab Chen and Karche Marpo to be unenlightened protectors, does anyone know why Sakyas would claim that they are not enlightened while the Gelugs do.

Another question is that why is Setrab Chen, Nechung (for Nechung, it is understood that he is not enlightened) and Kache Marpo look alike ie have the same feature? Both protectors are riding horses and yes they are very difficult to be identified. Is it because of this two protectors have the same emanated purpose and that is why they look almost the same?

I have already explained that above. It is symbolic of that all yidams, Dharma protectors, Bodhisattvas and Buddhas are one and the same in nature and they are just behaving and appearing differently in order to benefit sentient beings. Some websites do point out that Dorje Drakden is Nechung's speech/activity aspect, but this is not correct as his headgear is the same as Setrab's showing that he is the full form of Nechung in enlightened form. A minister's headgear would be the same as kache marpo's.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Kache Marpo is the main attendant of Protector Dorje Shugden and when the oracle takes trance, it is Kache Marpo who will work hard to assist with the numerous questions to be answered.

Kache Marpo take to tasks practitioners who have broken samaya as mentioned in one of the verses of the sadhana.

Kache Marpo in my opinion is like the Prime Minister to King Shugden.