Overcoming Obstacles - An open letter from WSS

[vajralight]

Dear Lineageholder,
snip... If you keep insisting that the Dalai Lama is the problem, arent you insinuating something else, because there are other ways of lifting the ban such as promoting Dorje Shugden to those who are not affected by the Dalai Lama's reach. snip
so...if im jumping to conclusions and there is another reason as to why you want to raise the Dalai Lama is the source point so strongly, do enlighten me to rewrite my conclusions

What a weak argument... And to keep insisting on using the word hate to describe the feelings of people who do not believe in this Dalai Lama is also a very strange tactic. Can you read the mind of all these practitioners ?

[Ensapa]

What a weak argument... And to keep insisting on using the word hate to describe the feelings of people who do not believe in this Dalai Lama is also a very strange tactic. Can you read the mind of all these practitioners ?

If it was a weak argument, you could have come up with a better one to counter mine. Instead you give me a one liner. I did not use it to describe the feelings of the people who dont believe in the Dalai Lama at all, if you read it again, but I am just merely pointing out that we should not go head on against the Dalai Lama although he is the source. You dont need to read the minds of the practitioners, you can infer from what they have said. Obviously, selective reading is not a good habit, my friend. Why take my words out of context and hit me with a one liner? Your one liner argument is equally weak, if not, weaker than mine. And of course, you missed the point, yet again.

I was expecting something better from you. hehe.

[harrynephew]

The survival of one party should not mean the destruction of another, its basic logic of survival and cannot be taken lightly. Otherwise what difference does it make of us from the carnivores of the forest? Sometimes our minds are blinded by wrong views and instability which arises from our surrounding and the people we associate.

I personally value HHDL a lot due to the fact that he has single handedly sustained so many people from all walks of life both Tibetan and not in their spiritual and secular endeavors. Why fault him for one thing when we can focus on getting the ban down without hurting anybody?

[Ensapa]

The survival of one party should not mean the destruction of another, its basic logic of survival and cannot be taken lightly. Otherwise what difference does it make of us from the carnivores of the forest? Sometimes our minds are blinded by wrong views and instability which arises from our surrounding and the people we associate.

I personally value HHDL a lot due to the fact that he has single handedly sustained so many people from all walks of life both Tibetan and not in their spiritual and secular endeavors. Why fault him for one thing when we can focus on getting the ban down without hurting anybody?

I agree strongly with this post and statement altogether. Why focus on the Dalai Lama alone. Yes, we all know if he had not banned Dorje Shugden, we would not be subjected to discrimination at all, but as we have read earlier in this thread, the fact that he was pointed out as the 'seed' of the ban has been raised, when it wasnt necessary. Also, there is much evidence elsewhere on the net where WSS or its members has even declared that their mission is to discredit the Dalai Lama in order to bring down the ban on Dorje Shugden and I have read those before. I am saying that I do not agree to this approach at all, although I do think that the protests brought  necessary attention to the whole Dorje Shugden issue and make people question the policies of the CTA (and revealing who and what they are actually doing) and at the same time forcing the Dalai Lama and CTA to do a massive PR cleanup with the westerners.

But yes, i'm tired of discussing this tirade, and i certainly hope that WSS will produce results in a more positive light with regards to lifting the ban instead of zeroing in on the Dalai Lama.

[Lineageholder]

I m sorry to say this, but the actual reason why the ban is in place and adhered to, and the reason why Dorje Shugden practitioners are regarded as demon worshippers. and the mainstream of the Gelugpa tradition is regarded as a 'sectarian wing' and sidelined, is the Dalai Lama's credibility. Most Buddhists simply believe what he says because he is respected as an authority figure. To most non-Buddhists he is the 'pope' of Buddhism.

The problem, therefore, is two fold - what the Dalai Lama says and how he is regarded by the vast majority of people - including mostly the people who post on this website I expect!

I don't believe that people will pay attention to complex arguments regarding the validity of Dorje Shugden practice, they simply follow the power of the Dalai Lama's speech therefore, sadly, the way to solve the problem is to undermine his credibility as an authority on Buddhism by highlighting his hypocrisy. Even so, there is an enormous barrier to be overcome here too because most people simply refuse to believe anything negative about him.  Detractors are labelled as deluded or Chinese agents (a convenient way of distracting people from the main issue of sectarianism and ostracism).

I don't know that the WSS will do, but my own feeling is that as I have said, the Dalai Lama is the sole source of this problem and the solution lies in highlighting his hypocrisy and the injustice of the ban, in contradiction to his words about peace and inclusivity. I have no hatred for the Dalai Lama. I did at one time, but now I that I see his legacy is one of destruction and failure, I feel sorry for him. I feel glad that he has been a conduit for many people to find the Dharma but this doesn't begin the counterbalance the massive destruction that his actions have caused and continue to cause, and will likely cause, for many generations. People here talk about lifting the ban but that will never happen because there is no reason for the DL to do so. Action needs to be taken to protect our spiritual lineage for future generations and, notwithstanding the great contribution of the people who operate this website, it will not be enough for as long as the Dalai Lama's credibility is stronger than this website's voice. People need to receive information about the truth of the Dalai Lama's actions.

[Ensapa]

I m sorry to say this, but the actual reason why the ban is in place and adhered to, and the reason why Dorje Shugden practitioners are regarded as demon worshippers. and the mainstream of the Gelugpa tradition is regarded as a 'sectarian wing' and sidelined, is the Dalai Lama's credibility. Most Buddhists simply believe what he says because he is respected as an authority figure. To most non-Buddhists he is the 'pope' of Buddhism.

The problem, therefore, is two fold - what the Dalai Lama says and how he is regarded by the vast majority of people - including mostly the people who post on this website I expect!

I don't believe that people will pay attention to complex arguments regarding the validity of Dorje Shugden practice, they simply follow the power of the Dalai Lama's speech therefore, sadly, the way to solve the problem is to undermine his credibility as an authority on Buddhism by highlighting his hypocrisy. Even so, there is an enormous barrier to be overcome here too because most people simply refuse to believe anything negative about him.  Detractors are labelled as deluded or Chinese agents (a convenient way of distracting people from the main issue of sectarianism and ostracism).

I don't know that the WSS will do, but my own feeling is that as I have said, the Dalai Lama is the sole source of this problem and the solution lies in highlighting his hypocrisy and the injustice of the ban, in contradiction to his words about peace and inclusivity. I have no hatred for the Dalai Lama. I did at one time, but now I that I see his legacy is one of destruction and failure, I feel sorry for him. I feel glad that he has been a conduit for many people to find the Dharma but this doesn't begin the counterbalance the massive destruction that his actions have caused and continue to cause, and will likely cause, for many generations. People here talk about lifting the ban but that will never happen because there is no reason for the DL to do so. Action needs to be taken to protect our spiritual lineage for future generations and, notwithstanding the great contribution of the people who operate this website, it will not be enough for as long as the Dalai Lama's credibility is stronger than this website's voice. People need to receive information about the truth of the Dalai Lama's actions.

You dont have to target the Dalai Lama's followers per se. Why try to reconvert people who are already very affirmed to the Dalai Lama? The Dalai Lama may already have a lot of followers, but there are even more people who do not follow the Dalai Lama. What about those? Of course, you'll need to be honest and transparent about the whole Dorje Shugden issue wit them because nobody likes to be deceived and if they think that they have been deceived, they wont be happy about it at all. The Dalai Lama's credibility will always be strong, so instead of focusing on bringing down his reputation, why not build up one that as just as strong as his? Defaming others and promoting your own lineage will create the causes for your own lineage to split in the future. Nichiren daishonin criticized every single Buddhist lineage in Japan that was in existence during his lifetime, and his tradition subsequently split 4 times and was embroiled in bitter legal battles.

I'm just kinda pointing out historical evidence that this approach will not work..