Author Topic: Where are all the Nechung articles?  (Read 11994 times)

Blueupali

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Re: Where are all the Nechung articles?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2013, 11:50:02 PM »
Quoting Ensapa:

"Which is odd, as his sadhana was widely available a while ago, back in 2012 but suddenly was pulled out from the net. But I guess it is also this inconsistency that makes the Nechung subject very confusing to tackle."
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Hi Ensapa,
  So are you thinking maybe that since the Tibetan governement had followed the Nechung oracle's advice, and since they now seem to want to go back to Tibet, but without independence, that they are trying to downplay Nechung now?
  Whether or not a person thinks of Nechung as enlightened, and honestly, I had never heard of him in any context than of the Dalai Lama's oracle, it would be sad to blame a deity, enlightened or not for political decisions.

Ensapa

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Re: Where are all the Nechung articles?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2013, 07:24:28 AM »
Quoting Ensapa:

"Which is odd, as his sadhana was widely available a while ago, back in 2012 but suddenly was pulled out from the net. But I guess it is also this inconsistency that makes the Nechung subject very confusing to tackle."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ensapa,
  So are you thinking maybe that since the Tibetan governement had followed the Nechung oracle's advice, and since they now seem to want to go back to Tibet, but without independence, that they are trying to downplay Nechung now?
  Whether or not a person thinks of Nechung as enlightened, and honestly, I had never heard of him in any context than of the Dalai Lama's oracle, it would be sad to blame a deity, enlightened or not for political decisions.


You are right. There is no room to blame a deity for anything at all in any context, simply because the responsibility lies with people and not with the deity. It is quite interesting however, to see how the CTA reacts to this by removing Nechung and its references all over, and also the reaction of those that are aligned with the Dalai Lama on this issue. Oh well, the only way to know more information is to wait for him to complete his research:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/859811179/nechung-the-god-of-a-tibetan-monastery

But during then, i wonder if he would still be persistent on his quest to find out more about Nechung? We shall see.

Ensapa

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Re: Where are all the Nechung articles?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2013, 11:06:44 AM »
More proof that Nechung has been removed from CTA's website. I mean, if Nechung is indeed the state oracle, why be ashamed?

From an older thread:

Quote
In early times it is believed that there were hundreds of oracles throughout Tibet.

Today, only a few survive, including those consulted by the Tibetan government. Of these, the principal one is the Nechung oracle. Through him manifests Dorje Drak-den (Nechung), the principal protector divinity of the Tibetan government and the Dalai Lama (see History of Nechung Monastery). It is because of this that Nechung Kuten is given the rank of a deputy minister in the exiled Tibetan government hierarchy.

http://www.tibet.com/buddhism/nechung_hh.html


http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=228.0

Clicking the link to CTA's site will reveal that it is broken, and a search on their website will reveal that they no longer have any Nechung articles in existence.

vajrastorm

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Re: Where are all the Nechung articles?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 09:28:16 AM »
It is only logical for us to conclude that now that the CTA have lost faith in Nechung, articles of Nechung, re- his origin and reasons why he is held as an Enlightened Protector, have been removed from the CTA websites.

The CTA have lost their faith in Nechung because of the many mistakes Nechung has made in his prophecies, including those concerning Tibet's independence. BU asked questions like "If Nechung were enlightened, why has he made so many mistakes in his prophecies?" and " If Nechung were enlightened, why does Dorje Shugden need to take over as Chief of Dharma Protectors in the prophecy of Changing of the Guards?"

I would like to address all this by way of looking at it as part of 'a bigger picture '. Tracing back to how Duldzin Dragpa Gyeltsen made the promise to arise as a Protector to protect the lineage teachings of Je Tsongkhapa , and later how Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen arose as Protector Dorje Shugden, i see a  play of enlightened activities in the minds of enlightened beings that we ordinary beings cannot fathom. Nechung appeared a s a bird that hovered over Je Tsongkhapa while he was teaching, causing Duldzin(Tsongkhapa's direct disciple) to notice it. Then Nechung transformed from the bird and revealed himself to Duldzin and asked if he could promise to arise as a Protector to protect Je Tsongkhapa's teachings, especially in these degenerate times. Duldzin agreed.

When it was time for the promise to be fulfilled and carried out, Nechung appeared to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and asked him to honor and fulfill the promise that Duldzin had made to him. Nechung said he would create the conditions for Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to arise as a Protector, and he did. He created the negative circumstances of the chief attendants of the 5th Dalai Lama  becoming jealous of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to the point of wanting to kill him to remove him as a possible threat to the 5th Dalai Lama's position as spiritual and political Head of the Tibetans . Thus ,we can say that Nechung was a key figure in the whole process of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen  arising as a Protector.Indeed, it was with Nechung's intervention that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen arose (successfully) as the Protector of Je Tsongkhapa's teachings.

To me, there is no doubt about Nechung as an  Enlightened Protector when we see him playing a vital and most effective role in ensuring that Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen remembered and kept the promise of Dudzin, and also in helping to ensure his arising as a Protector. That was in the time of the 5th Dalai  Lama.

 Fast forward to the present, the 14th Dalai Lama, like his predecessor, has relied heavily on Nechung to advise on personal matters and matters of state.But now,  it is time for Nechung to fade away and for Dorje Shugden to arise. So Nechung keeps making mistakes. So the prophecy of the Changing of the Guards will be fulfilled.

Enlightened beings, like the Dalai Lama and Duldzin and Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, do not need oracles of Dharma Protectors to advise them; but the Tibetan people need to see them consult  Dharma Protectors. So now the stage is set for Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to arise, as even the people can see that the  'power' of Nechung is fading.

 

Ensapa

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Re: Where are all the Nechung articles?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 02:55:22 PM »
It is only logical for us to conclude that now that the CTA have lost faith in Nechung, articles of Nechung, re- his origin and reasons why he is held as an Enlightened Protector, have been removed from the CTA websites.

The CTA have lost their faith in Nechung because of the many mistakes Nechung has made in his prophecies, including those concerning Tibet's independence. BU asked questions like "If Nechung were enlightened, why has he made so many mistakes in his prophecies?" and " If Nechung were enlightened, why does Dorje Shugden need to take over as Chief of Dharma Protectors in the prophecy of Changing of the Guards?"

I would like to address all this by way of looking at it as part of 'a bigger picture '. Tracing back to how Duldzin Dragpa Gyeltsen made the promise to arise as a Protector to protect the lineage teachings of Je Tsongkhapa , and later how Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen arose as Protector Dorje Shugden, i see a  play of enlightened activities in the minds of enlightened beings that we ordinary beings cannot fathom. Nechung appeared a s a bird that hovered over Je Tsongkhapa while he was teaching, causing Duldzin(Tsongkhapa's direct disciple) to notice it. Then Nechung transformed from the bird and revealed himself to Duldzin and asked if he could promise to arise as a Protector to protect Je Tsongkhapa's teachings, especially in these degenerate times. Duldzin agreed.

When it was time for the promise to be fulfilled and carried out, Nechung appeared to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen and asked him to honor and fulfill the promise that Duldzin had made to him. Nechung said he would create the conditions for Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to arise as a Protector, and he did. He created the negative circumstances of the chief attendants of the 5th Dalai Lama  becoming jealous of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to the point of wanting to kill him to remove him as a possible threat to the 5th Dalai Lama's position as spiritual and political Head of the Tibetans . Thus ,we can say that Nechung was a key figure in the whole process of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen  arising as a Protector.Indeed, it was with Nechung's intervention that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen arose (successfully) as the Protector of Je Tsongkhapa's teachings.

To me, there is no doubt about Nechung as an  Enlightened Protector when we see him playing a vital and most effective role in ensuring that Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen remembered and kept the promise of Dudzin, and also in helping to ensure his arising as a Protector. That was in the time of the 5th Dalai  Lama.

 Fast forward to the present, the 14th Dalai Lama, like his predecessor, has relied heavily on Nechung to advise on personal matters and matters of state.But now,  it is time for Nechung to fade away and for Dorje Shugden to arise. So Nechung keeps making mistakes. So the prophecy of the Changing of the Guards will be fulfilled.

Enlightened beings, like the Dalai Lama and Duldzin and Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, do not need oracles of Dharma Protectors to advise them; but the Tibetan people need to see them consult  Dharma Protectors. So now the stage is set for Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen to arise, as even the people can see that the  'power' of Nechung is fading.

The funny part is that although Nechung is traditionally linked to Nyingma, as like what blueupali has said, his presence has since faded away from that tradition. Why are the Nyingmas not that happy with Nechung and drop him that quick and easily? Given that Nechung's popularity and importance was established by a Gelug Lama (Nechung monastery was built by the abbot of Deyang monastery), it would still not be that Nechung is so quickly forgotten from the annals of Nyingma because Nyingma is after all a resident of Samye monastery. But it seems that even the CTA is phasing out Nechung, based on their actions on the CTA website.