Can a human being enter into another human being's mind body continuum?

[Ensapa]

Yup, I agree that it would be a little freaky. But, there are cases of human possessing another human being or other beings. This happens when one astral travels, while your mind has left your body, it is possible for another human being or any being at all to also occupy your body at the same time. You do not have to be really really dead to be able to "possess" someone else.

But in this case it would mean that the state of the mind being able to astral travel, being at a another place without the physical body. When one astral travels they will be at places where they might even be an alien. But, I guess people that do not astral travel will not know until they start doing it.

Having the mind to travel or being depicted as something else is explained in one of the parts of clairvoyance. This would be the clairvoyance of having the ability of miracle powers. In other words, it would be having the power to emanate with thought. Even emanating as things that we "normal" people/beings would be looking at.

Yeah I know about astral travelling, but it is usually warned that during astral travel other beings can come and occupy the  body, and not another human. Most humans are already unable to handle their own minds and bodies, so how is it that they can possess another person's body? If it is possible i'd like to try because having 2 bodies would be so much more fun than just having one, and controlling a person is fun too. But I still cannot logically deduce on how does another human being 'possess' another human being in that way...you astral project into another person's body?

[Rinchen]

Yeah I know about astral travelling, but it is usually warned that during astral travel other beings can come and occupy the  body, and not another human. Most humans are already unable to handle their own minds and bodies, so how is it that they can possess another person's body? If it is possible i'd like to try because having 2 bodies would be so much more fun than just having one, and controlling a person is fun too. But I still cannot logically deduce on how does another human being 'possess' another human being in that way...you astral project into another person's body?

Like what you said Ensapa, "most humans" so there are still that small percentage that are able to do that. There are good and bad human beings, hence, those that are being trained and have the ability to possess another fellow human being. But it is just a handful cases.

The ultimate decision to believe or not is still up to individuals because just like spirits, UFOs, gods, demi-gods, and even existence of Buddha, is up to each individual to trust and believe. Even so for the oracles to say something, if we believe and follow instructions is up to us.

Personally I would believe as there are many stories out there that are logical and do not seem fake. Apart from that there are people that has a third eye. There are even some people that have captured these paranormal activities on tape.

But the ultimate decision for one to believe or not is up to us, because there are still no concrete evidences of it.

[Ensapa]

Like what you said Ensapa, "most humans" so there are still that small percentage that are able to do that. There are good and bad human beings, hence, those that are being trained and have the ability to possess another fellow human being. But it is just a handful cases.

The ultimate decision to believe or not is still up to individuals because just like spirits, UFOs, gods, demi-gods, and even existence of Buddha, is up to each individual to trust and believe. Even so for the oracles to say something, if we believe and follow instructions is up to us.

Personally I would believe as there are many stories out there that are logical and do not seem fake. Apart from that there are people that has a third eye. There are even some people that have captured these paranormal activities on tape.

But the ultimate decision for one to believe or not is up to us, because there are still no concrete evidences of it.

Yes, the ones who are capable of doing that would probably not do that anyway because they know that it is unethical and there is not much of a reason to do so. But is there a place were I can sign up to learn on how to possess another human being? where do I sign up because it would be a lot of fun. For example, I can possess someone to make generous donations to a Dorje Shugden temple. It is a very fab idea if it was possible. Merits for everyone! Even though the methods are deplorable and questionable. I dont doubt the existence of the paranormal at all, but i do know what is possible and what is not.

[Rinchen]

There are also people that have these abilities and they do possess others for a motive. Like what you said Ensapa, you would possess them and then make them do huge donations, that is also a form of stealing although the motive behind it is a good motive, but it is still wrong to do so.

It is said that people that have spirits or other beings following/possessed them that are able to make them astral travel to take have that human possess another human. It is really freaky, but we there are so many things that with our limited knowledge that we do not know and might not even find out till the day we have died.

[Ensapa]

There are also people that have these abilities and they do possess others for a motive. Like what you said Ensapa, you would possess them and then make them do huge donations, that is also a form of stealing although the motive behind it is a good motive, but it is still wrong to do so.

It is said that people that have spirits or other beings following/possessed them that are able to make them astral travel to take have that human possess another human. It is really freaky, but we there are so many things that with our limited knowledge that we do not know and might not even find out till the day we have died.

Personally, I do feel skeptical as there has not been any testimonials or cases where this is possible, but what is obvious is that the people who are able to do this will not do this even if given a chance because of the said moral implications that i have said earlier, which means that there will never be any mention of this happening. But since the possibility is there, perhaps the line in the text is to cover this possibility to make sure that all grounds are covered and it is only for theoretical reasons.

[Rinchen]

I guess what is said in the books is correct, just that we do not know that if what is being said is correct or not. Even so, when we have evidences that is shows that what is written in the book is accurate, with our limited knowledge we are not able to understand and comprehend it.

[Ensapa]

I guess what is said in the books is correct, just that we do not know that if what is being said is correct or not. Even so, when we have evidences that is shows that what is written in the book is accurate, with our limited knowledge we are not able to understand and comprehend it.

It is more like the books cover the theoretical possibilities of what might possibly happen even though in reality chances of it happening are next to none. But it does educate us and make our minds open. That is something that is important, having an open mind. Learning the possibility of something can really make you think further on how the  mind works and how our mind works, and what is it capable of. When our minds' limits have been lifted, we can understand and accept the Dharma more.

[Rinchen]

It is more like the books cover the theoretical possibilities of what might possibly happen even though in reality chances of it happening are next to none. But it does educate us and make our minds open. That is something that is important, having an open mind. Learning the possibility of something can really make you think further on how the  mind works and how our mind works, and what is it capable of. When our minds' limits have been lifted, we can understand and accept the Dharma more.

I believe what is stated in books are more then just the theoretical possibilities, it is just that these are the happenings that science has yet to prove and verified.

Just like sleep paralysis cases, there are such cases where there is really possession that has occurred or even being pressing the people on their chests, is just that scientist and doctors have yet to find a scientific explanation of it and covering them up with terms saying that it is just all in the party's imagination.

But when the same situation is being placed to a high lama with clairvoyance, or to someone with a third eye, they can tell you that what the doctors and scientists said is not correct. It would be a totally different ball game all together.

[Ensapa]

I believe what is stated in books are more then just the theoretical possibilities, it is just that these are the happenings that science has yet to prove and verified.

Just like sleep paralysis cases, there are such cases where there is really possession that has occurred or even being pressing the people on their chests, is just that scientist and doctors have yet to find a scientific explanation of it and covering them up with terms saying that it is just all in the party's imagination.

But when the same situation is being placed to a high lama with clairvoyance, or to someone with a third eye, they can tell you that what the doctors and scientists said is not correct. It would be a totally different ball game all together.

It is also important to note that not all sleep paralysis cases are caused by incubuses. They can be caused when the brain wakes up before the electrical signals from the brain reach the body and thus incapacitating the body for a certain period of time. Both have similiar effects, except that in cases of an incubus, the victim will hear a buzzing sound and will see shadows. So it is important to distinguish something that occurs physically and something that occurs paranormally and not just say that it has to be paranormal.

A person may or may not lie about their 3rd eye, and even if they do have it, what they say might or might not be what they really saw.

[Rinchen]

Yes, it is true that sometimes sleep paralysis are not caused by incubuses. But the chances are of that is the same as the chances of those victims of sleep paralysis being cased by incubuses.

Most instances that I have occurred is that people that claim that they have a third eye they are lying or hallucinating.

It is correct to say that those with the third eye may say things that might or might not be true. This is usually because sometimes they are not allowed to say some things as they may be harmed after they said what they should not be saying. At times, people do say what is really there as well but brush it off saying they were joking to lighten up the scenario.

[dsiluvu]

From this definition of spirits, a spirit can be from human, hungry ghost, god, demi gods realms that they can “enter into another being's mind body continuum".

I googled on the “consciousness transference” and found a very good article by Lama Yeshe. http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/Transference_Of_Consciousness.htm
In his articles, he mentioned that “Once you have gained control over your mind there are many things you can do. Not only can you transfer your consciousness from your body but you can also direct it into another body.”

From the article, transference of consciousness are practices (or called Pho-wa) in Buddhism that is used to direct our consciousness to a good rebirth so that we have a better rebirth.

However, anyone have any example of “enter into another being's mind body continuum” while someone is alive and become spirits? Is spirits considered good or harmful to others?

That was a very good link and article by Lama Yeshe on mind transference and Pho-wa... thanks for the link!

To answer your question Lotus1 I would say while someone is still alive, I do not think another human can enter and take over your body unless he or she is some kind of witch. I have heard of entering to control someone's mind or influence but not exactly take over. If anyone knows more, please correct me.

However as to the verse in Dorje Shugden's prayer about humans entering, I think it means those who are like witch doctors who try to take control of one's mind and influence one to believe and do something they want. Sometimes they can come in one's dream or maybe a voice that whisper and confuses your mind

Usually witch doctors would send spirits instead to harm a person as in take over one's body. So in my opinion it is not so much about the another human entering another human's body but more another human harming another human using various methods such as sending a spirit to cause that harm. So this is what I take from the prayers and not so literally as another human enter another human. If someone knows better do share

[Ensapa]

Yes, it is true that sometimes sleep paralysis are not caused by incubuses. But the chances are of that is the same as the chances of those victims of sleep paralysis being cased by incubuses.

Most instances that I have occurred is that people that claim that they have a third eye they are lying or hallucinating.

It is correct to say that those with the third eye may say things that might or might not be true. This is usually because sometimes they are not allowed to say some things as they may be harmed after they said what they should not be saying. At times, people do say what is really there as well but brush it off saying they were joking to lighten up the scenario.

There is also people who suffer from mental illness who suffer from hallucinations and I have met those. The easiest way to tell the difference between someone who really has the 3rd eye and someone who suffers from mental illness is to challenge what they claim to have seen. If they get defensive in a very obsessive way, then you know it is mental illness. It works the same with people who claim to have spirit harm or being cursed because someone who really suffers would be able to tell you what is going on when questioned further, while someone with mental illness who thinks he is afflicted by this will only get angry and defensive when questioned and are unable to describe further.

[Ratna Shugden]

Excepts from "Chod In The Ganden Tradition: The Oral Instructions Of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche"

"Another listing of spirits includes devas (gods), nagas, yakshas (wealth deities), gandharvas (celestial musicians), asuras (aggressive demigods), garudas, kinnaras (diminutive spirits, said to be very handsome), mahoragas (big-bellied serpent spirits), manusas (humans), and amanusas (non-humans). This list come from the text of Cha Sum, the Three-Part ritual performed when people are sick. As part of this ritual, tormas are sent out for spirits, and a short recitation is done. Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."

"Human beings are included in this listing because they can also enter into another being's mind body continuum."" - How is this possible?

After another person entered your mind body continuum, you will observe yourself thinking, speaking and acting like the person. For example, eating his/her favourite food &/or drink, which is not what you normally do. This is how you know that someone has entered your mind body continuum.

Do what that person can't do &/or will not do, and you will regain partial/total
control over yourself.

Engage in physical fitness training before a large mirror with which you can see your entire body with, you will regain partial/total control over yourself.

I have yet to find a permanent solution to this problem.

[brian]

this sounds really scary for me. I think it is possible like everyone else in this room. Thank you for the explanation and i do think it is also possible because of karma. There are instances that we come to know from watching movies in particularly horror movies from Thailand. Couldn't agree more with most of you and it can happen to anyone base on karma. After all it is the consciousness that travels off and to another body not the human.

[psylotripitaka]

This discussion is great. Reminds me of how the Wisdom Beings enter into the practitioner assisting in the deconstruction of the practitioners ordinary conception of self.

People have observed many types of possession through invocation or involuntarily in many different settings and traditions. We ourselves have a retinue of spirits who participate in our mental and physical activities. There are some occult practitioners that are adept at discarnating from the human body and have discussed the activities of entering other people and actively taking over.

There are all sorts of protection practices in Dharma to reduce the influence of such things. What we should be far more worried about is not taking action to exorcise our demon of self-grasping ignorance.