An inaccurate Dorje Shugden account

[Ensapa]

I found this from an anti Dalai Lama website:

http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/SDLE/Part-2-07.htm

Dorje Shugden—a threat to the Fourteenth Dalai Lama’s life?
Since 1996 at the latest, Pehar and his Nechung medium have met with embittered competition from among the Tibetan’s own ranks. This is a matter of the tutelary and divinatory deity, Dorje Shugden. In pictures, Dorje Shugden is depicted riding grim-faced through a lake of boiling blood upon a snow lion. It is primarily conservative circles among the Gelugpas (the “Yellow Hats”) who have grouped around this figure. They demand the exclusive supremacy of the yellow sect (the Gelugpas) over the other Buddhist schools.
 
This traditional political position of the Shugden worshippers is not acceptable to the Fourteenth Dalai Lama (although he himself is a member of the yellow sect) because he is working towards an integration of all Tibet’s religious orientations, including the Bonpos. With the same resolve as the “Great Fifth” he sees a one-off chance to multiply the power of his own institution in a collective movement involving all schools. It is therefore not surprising that even the early history of Dorje Shugden features an irreconcilable confrontation between the protective god and the Fifth Dalai Lama, which appears to be repeating itself today.
 
What took place on that occasion, and what has been the history of the recalcitrant Shugden? The “pan-Buddhist” program of the “Great Fifth”, but especially his occult tendency towards the Nyingmapa sect, led the abbot of the powerful Drepung (Yellow Hat) monastery, Drakpa Gyaltsen, to organize a rebellion against the ruler in the Potala. The conspiracy was discovered and was not carried out.
 
   
The two oracle gods at daggers drawn: Shugden [l] and Nechung [r]
 
Most probably at the command of the in such matters unscrupulous god-king, the rebel was murdered first. Whilst the corpse was being burned on a pyre, a threatening cloud which resembled a huge black hand, the hand of the avenger, was formed by the ascending smoke. After his death the murdered lama, Drakpa Gyaltsen, transformed into a martial spirit and took on the fearsome name of Dorje Shugden, which means the “Bellower of the Thunderbolt”. He continued to pursue his political goals from the beyond.
 
Shortly after his death — the legend reports — all manner of unhappy incidents befell the country. Towns and villages were afflicted with sicknesses. The Tibetan government constantly made wrong decisions, even the Fifth Dalai Lama was not spared. Every time he wanted to have a meal in the middle of the day, his victim (Dorje Shugden) manifested himself as an invisible evil force, up-ended the dinner tables and damaged the “ His Holiness’s possessions”. [2] Ultimately it proved possible to subdue the vengeful spirit through all manner of rituals, but he did not therefore remain inactive.

And, another rumor that the Kagyu school that widely spreads against the Gelugs and has been accepted as the truth by some scholars:

With the assistance of a human medium, through whom he still today communicates with his priests, the abbot who had transformed into a protective god organized (from the beyond, so to speak) a oppositional grouping within the Yellow Hat (Gelugpa) order, who wanted (and still want) to enforce the absolute supremacy of their order by magical and practical political means. For example, at the beginning of the 20th century the invocation of Shugden by the powerful Yellow Hat lama, Pabongka Rinpoche, was used to suppress the Nyingmapas and Kagyupas in eastern Tibet. An outright ritual war was fought out: “... whenever this [Shugden] ritual was practiced in the Gelugpa monasteries, the surrounding monasteries of the other schools [performed] certain practices so as to check the negative forces again” (Kagyü Life 21-1996, p. 34).

What do you think?

[Blueupali]

I think it sounds like the person that wrote this doesn't really understand much about Buddhism; sometimes, yes, in history, some members of the Kagyu or the Nyingma have had trouble with the Gelugpa and vice versa (for example, see A Golden Swan in Turbulent Waters by Shamar Rinpoche, about the the life of the 10th Karmapa, contemporary of the 5th Dalai Lama).
  It seemed to me like the article had both the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden pegged wrong--- this happens sometimes; there was an article in a local Virginia paper once after Shamar Rinpoche and some other Kagyus were erecting an enlightenment stupa; it was a very conservative part of Virginia, and they kept getting confused about what Rinpoche was doing; they seemed to find that the weapons that were put in there to pacify obstacles were there for some sort of militaristic reason (sorry--- tiny paper from Virginia 12 years ago-- don't have a link).  This happens sometimes.y
  I wouldn't say that Shugden followers are more conservative Gelugpas at all, and I certainly wouldn't say that we want the supremacy of our school over others.  I would say that when the Dalai Lama wants to merge the tradtions all under him, that that is a supremacy of another sort; I think the Shugden follower just like to keep their tradition pure.  Penor Rinpoche's Nyingmas always liked to keep to their tradition when I studied with them; in both cases they have a complete set of teachings that leads to full Buddhahood, so I think they just want to continue with the one that works for them so that they get to Buddhahood.

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Shugden and his compatriot lamas will never rule the Buddhist landscape or even get near it and there is nothing anyone of you can do. Everyone knows Shugden has lost the battle against HHDL. The only lifeline all of the Shugdenites have going is this website!

And all of you are not united anyways as your caught up with your own individual games and romantic views about samsara. Take a good look out there and carefully. Who is doing anything for the fallen 'god' Shugden? Any words, prints, promoters? No one is doing anything for Shugden because everyone knows we should not practice Shugden. Sooner or later you will come to realize also.

Om Vajrakilaya hulu hulu phet!
 

[Big Uncle]

Shugden and his compatriot lamas will never rule the Buddhist landscape or even get near it and there is nothing anyone of you can do. Everyone knows Shugden has lost the battle against HHDL. The only lifeline all of the Shugdenites have going is this website!

And all of you are not united anyways as your caught up with your own individual games and romantic views about samsara. Take a good look out there and carefully. Who is doing anything for the fallen 'god' Shugden? Any words, prints, promoters? No one is doing anything for Shugden because everyone knows we should not practice Shugden. Sooner or later you will come to realize also.

Om Vajrakilaya hulu hulu phet!
 

You obviously have not looked around. The biggest Buddhist organization is NKT or New Kadampa Tradition. I have heard of monasteries mushrooming in Tibet and in China. I think there is a strong group in Singapore that I heard that His Holiness mentioned. Kyabje Gangchen Rinpoche and Gonsar Rinpoche along with Rabten Rinpoche is doing a great job upholding the tradition in Europe.

Meanwhile in Canada and Americas, Kyabje Zawa Rinpoche along with NGAPA organization is kickstarting something wonderful there. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is certainly coming of age, travelling to Mongolia and Europe while giving hope and spreading the lineage to many. In China, Lama Jampa Ngodup and many great lamas are spreading Dorje Shugden to the masses. Meanwhile in India, the great Dorje Shugden monasteries of Shar Gaden and Serpom are doing a great job maintaining the lineage and they will spread it far and wide.

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Shugden and his compatriot lamas will never rule the Buddhist landscape or even get near it and there is nothing anyone of you can do. Everyone knows Shugden has lost the battle against HHDL. The only lifeline all of the Shugdenites have going is this website!

And all of you are not united anyways as your caught up with your own individual games and romantic views about samsara. Take a good look out there and carefully. Who is doing anything for the fallen 'god' Shugden? Any words, prints, promoters? No one is doing anything for Shugden because everyone knows we should not practice Shugden. Sooner or later you will come to realize also.

Om Vajrakilaya hulu hulu phet!
 

You obviously have not looked around. The biggest Buddhist organization is NKT or New Kadampa Tradition. I have heard of monasteries mushrooming in Tibet and in China. I think there is a strong group in Singapore that I heard that His Holiness mentioned. Kyabje Gangchen Rinpoche and Gonsar Rinpoche along with Rabten Rinpoche is doing a great job upholding the tradition in Europe.

Meanwhile in Canada and Americas, Kyabje Zawa Rinpoche along with NGAPA organization is kickstarting something wonderful there. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is certainly coming of age, travelling to Mongolia and Europe while giving hope and spreading the lineage to many. In China, Lama Jampa Ngodup and many great lamas are spreading Dorje Shugden to the masses. Meanwhile in India, the great Dorje Shugden monasteries of Shar Gaden and Serpom are doing a great job maintaining the lineage and they will spread it far and wide.

Show me more than just big buildings please? 

[Rinchen]

Show me more than just big buildings please? 

I heard that there are more and more places (not only big buildings) have DS. I have seen it in many places all around the world.

If you say that there are no prints and adverts around then you would be wrong. There are prints about DS teaching and benefiting many.

While I was at Hong Kong last year, I even received DS brochures that introduce and teaches about him.

If you were to put it as that this is the only place that anyone is doing anything for DS, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. There are many people out there doing things that we may or may not know to promote DS.

And there are people like that because we do not just follow an advice from HH Dalai Lama that do not make much sense to us. Since HH DL also prayed to DS for many live time.

It is also said that Nechung is a worldly god. Then if that is the case, why is HH Dalai Lama taking advices from Nechung? It would not make any sense correct?

[Blueupali]

Tenzin quotes:

"Om Vajrakilaya"

Tenzin, my dear one, please relax.  I have karma with Vajrakilia too; I used to study with Penor Rinpoche's Nyingmas in the U.S.; I now do Shugden; Guru Rinpoche doesn't dislike Buddhas, my friend, and Vajrakilia (wrathful Vajrasattva for those who are unfamilar) doesn't act against other Buddhas.
 

[Ensapa]

I think it sounds like the person that wrote this doesn't really understand much about Buddhism; sometimes, yes, in history, some members of the Kagyu or the Nyingma have had trouble with the Gelugpa and vice versa (for example, see A Golden Swan in Turbulent Waters by Shamar Rinpoche, about the the life of the 10th Karmapa, contemporary of the 5th Dalai Lama).
  It seemed to me like the article had both the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden pegged wrong--- this happens sometimes; there was an article in a local Virginia paper once after Shamar Rinpoche and some other Kagyus were erecting an enlightenment stupa; it was a very conservative part of Virginia, and they kept getting confused about what Rinpoche was doing; they seemed to find that the weapons that were put in there to pacify obstacles were there for some sort of militaristic reason (sorry--- tiny paper from Virginia 12 years ago-- don't have a link).  This happens sometimes.y
  I wouldn't say that Shugden followers are more conservative Gelugpas at all, and I certainly wouldn't say that we want the supremacy of our school over others.  I would say that when the Dalai Lama wants to merge the tradtions all under him, that that is a supremacy of another sort; I think the Shugden follower just like to keep their tradition pure.  Penor Rinpoche's Nyingmas always liked to keep to their tradition when I studied with them; in both cases they have a complete set of teachings that leads to full Buddhahood, so I think they just want to continue with the one that works for them so that they get to Buddhahood.

Now that is interesting. There are many traditions and lineages in the Nyingma/Kagyu tradition that advocate rime, and would encourage their students to take teachings from as many places and things as possible. To hear Penor Rinpoche encouraging his own students to stick to his own tradition is quite rare to listen to indeed at this time and age. All traditions have the complete set of teachings that will lead anyone who studies and follow them through to Buddhahood, but it would be not as effective if they were to be mixed with something else.

[Rinchen]

Now that is interesting. There are many traditions and lineages in the Nyingma/Kagyu tradition that advocate rime, and would encourage their students to take teachings from as many places and things as possible. To hear Penor Rinpoche encouraging his own students to stick to his own tradition is quite rare to listen to indeed at this time and age. All traditions have the complete set of teachings that will lead anyone who studies and follow them through to Buddhahood, but it would be not as effective if they were to be mixed with something else.

I have always heard that the students' gurus would make them read and learn from different places so that the students would have a better knowledge not limited by any factor.

[Ensapa]

I have always heard that the students' gurus would make them read and learn from different places so that the students would have a better knowledge not limited by any factor.

But in some cases, they are also encouraged to take as much initiations as possible from many different lamas. Although it could be the students misconstructing the Lama's advice, because i strongly believe that every Lama would want their students to focus and perfect something before moving on to the next. Students have been known to misconstruct the instructions of the Lama to fuel their own delusions so it could be a case of that as well. Which is quite common and may not be reflective of the Lama's advice or the lineage's tradition.