The Dorje Shugden issue in the Tibetan society- source from rainbow builders

[christine V]

The Dorje Shugden issue in the Tibetan society

A model of development with Tibetan characteristics, section 5.4

Another fracture within the Tibetan society is also a serious threat to its development: the controversy around the Shugden deity (or demon) has led to a deep rift between two communities: those who worship Shugden and those who don't. It is difficult to get a clear picture of the consequences of this problem across the Tibetan areas. Such conflicts are often hidden below the surface: everything looks quiet and peaceful, but when you get a deeper insight, you realize that there are two Tibetan communities which avoid any kind of contact.

Read the whole document in PDF format: A model of development with Tibetan characteristics.

Despite language problems and conflicts of interest, the relationship between the different ethnic communities works quite smoothly in the Tibetan areas. I have never heard a Tibetan telling me: "The Han Chinese (or the Hui Chinese) are our enemies". The only time I heard a Tibetan use the word "enemy", she used it to qualify Tibetans who worship the Shugden deity. In that place, this conflict has led to the Tibetan community being split in two, with both sides not even talking to each other. Han and Hui Chinese are the only link between them.

Traditionally, the Tibetan society was always based on religious tolerance. This tolerance is quite common in Asian cultures; however, in most cultures of the continent, religion does not have the huge importance which Buddhism has got in the Tibetan society. Despite this, various Buddhist sects and the animist Bön religion have always coexisted quite peacefully in the past. The conflict around the Shugden cult could potentially have the same catastrophic impact on the Tibetan society as the conflict between the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama which started in the 1920ies and led to a deep rift for several decades.

Such conflicts are extremely harmful to the economic and social development of the Tibetan society. Solving them through mutual tolerance and compassion should be considered to be a priority. The way in which these conflicts materialize at the level of religious and political leaders grabs some attention by Western specialists and media; the consequences on the society in the Tibetan areas are hardly ever mentioned.

http://www.rainbowbuilders.org/tibet-development/shugden

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It was very sad that amongst the Tibetans they are split because of this controversy. Thus, it is clear that why the Tibetan can't be unite and the Chinese are still remain in power in Tibet. Such controversy is so badly influence on the Tibetan, whereby they recognize their own kind of people as enemy whereas the strangers "the Hans" are their link to talk to their own people, very ironic. While, Dalai Lama whom they recognize as their spiritual leader are still remain out of Tibetan by the Chinese.

[Rinchen]

It is just sad to see that the Tibetans are doing this. We should be promoting love and care for all beings, no matter humans or animals. In this case, no matter what type of people they are, and what the practice. With differences in the community, it would be difficult for the community to go economically. It will also be harmful for those that are residing in the area, because all these differences would cause chaos that can be very violent. How would the Tibetans be able to get back their country/land if they continue with such difference? It would only tell the world that they are not ready for their own independence, and if they are on their own, they would not help any other countries, instead drag the other countries down. With this, how would the other countries would even want the CTA to take back their land to govern it on their own?

[Freyr Aesiragnorak]

It is clear that the deep divide within the Tibetan community will hinder the process of regaining Tibet from the Chinese. A fractured movement can never succeed. What is even worse is that the Tibetan community is even fractured on it's goal. Some want complete independence, others choose a middle way and yet even still others back the Chinese. In an already fractured community, His Holiness the Dalai Lama did something to deepen the divide among the Tibetan community, the ban on Dorje Shugden. This divided the Tibetans even more, but perhaps as an enlightened being, His Holiness' real goal is not to regain Tibet soon, but an even greater goal may-hap? Despite all the controversy His Holiness is the one spreading the Buddha Dharma, transmitted in its entirety from India, and now all over the world. Whether or not you practice Dorje Shugden, if you practice Tibetan Buddhism, it is due to His Holiness. I am thankful. I first started to practice the Gelug path in a centre that banned the protector practice, but through my own research I began to realize the true power of Dorje Shugedn.

[WisdomBeing]

It is well-known that a house divided will fall. The Tibetan diaspora is already dispersed throughout the world. Monks have disrobed to become dishwashers in New York - in pursuit of secular dreams. We truly live in degenerate times. The Shugden controversy is pitting Tibetan against Tibetan in an already splintered world. It is pitting Buddhist against Buddhist, even among non-Tibetans. As long as you are a Shugden practitioner, there is an immediate divide. All this caused by the decree of the Dalai Lama. Does he have a bigger picture in mind? Are our minds not enlightened enough to see the bigger picture but are expected to simply have blind faith in him because he is called the Buddha himself? I dare not dispute but regardless of whether he is a Buddha, regardless of whether what he is doing will spread the Buddhadharma so he has a good motivation, the truth is Shugden practitioners are suffering and Tibetans are divided because of schism. And the resulting karma of such schism is the destruction of Tibet as we have known it.

[vajrastorm]

There is no doubt that the cause of Tibet's independence from China, and its future as a nation, cannot be advanced when there is a fracture within the Tibetan community. The deep rift between the Shugden practitioners and anti-Shugdenists that came about because of the ban on Shugden practice also cannot be denied. However, I would pause before I go forward to declare that this split and schism is going to karmically cause the destruction of Tibet or the destruction of all hopes of Tibet becoming an independent nation. The architect of the rift and the creation of the two camps is HH Dalai Lama himself. As an emanation of the compassionate Chenrezig, I cannot imagine him to be capable of such designs as the destruction of Tibet as a country. As Chenrezig, he is beyond karma too.So, to me, the theory of the "Bigger Picture" still holds.

   

[Matibhadra]

As an emanation of the compassionate Chenrezig, I cannot imagine him to be capable of such designs as the destruction of Tibet as a country. As Chenrezig, he is beyond karma too. So, to me, the theory of the "Bigger Picture" still holds.

So please don't forget to include in your “Bigger Picture” the Jewish-British-American psychotic world-domination policies, of which the Dalai is a puppet, in the company of his coleagues, like him “bodhisattvas beyond karma”, such as Pinochet of Chile, Mubarak of Egypt, Suharto of Indonesia, Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Saddam Hussein of Iraq, assorted Latin American and African Banana Republic dictators, assorted butcher tyrants of Persian Gulf “monarchies”, the Talibans of Afghanistan, and so forth.
 
This “Bigger Picture” would make indeed an incredible thangka! Just imagine, Kissinger in the center soaked with the blood of his countless millions of victims, sitting on cushions of Bush and Blair, and, in smaller size, fanning him, the acolytes such as the “Bodhisattva” Dalai and all his above mentioned “Bodhisattva” coleagues!

[dsiluvu]

As an emanation of the compassionate Chenrezig, I cannot imagine him to be capable of such designs as the destruction of Tibet as a country. As Chenrezig, he is beyond karma too. So, to me, the theory of the "Bigger Picture" still holds.

So please don't forget to include in your “Bigger Picture” the Jewish-British-American psychotic world-domination policies, of which the Dalai is a puppet, in the company of his coleagues, like him “bodhisattvas beyond karma”, such as Pinochet of Chile, Mubarak of Egypt, Suharto of Indonesia, Reza Pahlavi of Iran, Saddam Hussein of Iraq, assorted Latin American and African Banana Republic dictators, assorted butcher tyrants of Persian Gulf “monarchies”, the Talibans of Afghanistan, and so forth.
 
This “Bigger Picture” would make indeed an incredible thangka! Just imagine, Kissinger in the center soaked with the blood of his countless millions of victims, sitting on cushions of Bush and Blair, and, in smaller size, fanning him, the acolytes such as the “Bodhisattva” Dalai and all his above mentioned “Bodhisattva” coleagues!

Dear jspitanga,

That would just be a really awful thangka and more over not all of them can be qualified as "Boddhisattvas"! No doubt what the Dalai Lama has done with this ban is seen as damaging many people and sangha lives, however on the hind side, you got to appreciate the growth that Dorje Shugden has become even more so popular and famous because of the ban. There is always 2 perspective to everything although I am not agreeing the Ban is good in any way.

The only good that came out of this is probably the fact that China kind of encourages and has no qualms in supporting, refurbishing and acknowledging Dorje Shugden monasteries and Lamas in Tibet itself. But I guess there will not really be full freedom of practice unless something huge happens like the Dalai Lama forsake the ban, officially announced that it is no longer legit or when China says starts promoting it BIG time and from there flows out to the world. Wonder why does the Dalai Lama still wishes to return to China, knowing fully that He will probably have to stay silence and his power dissolves once He is under the Chinese Govt. He will have no say there yet still He wishes to return to Tibet. What will happen to the ban then?, except dissolve in to emptiness is what I think.

[Blueupali]

 Replying to  "As an emanation of the compassionate Chenrezig, I cannot imagine him to be capable of such designs as the destruction of Tibet as a country"
   Were we dealing with the emanation of Chenrezig, then perhaps you are right, though I don't know that Buddhas are as worried about a country as we might think.  The Buddha wants to lead beings to enlightenment; he is not so worried about who runs a country.
  That said, I would like to say i am really sorry about all that has happened to Tibetans, especially those dealing with the Shugden ban.
   In general, I just want to share, that we can't just say, this guy is a buddha this guy is a buddha and people will really believe that, nor should they.  The Christains have something similar; my whole life people tell me if I don't believe Jesus is the son of God then I will be sent by God to hell.  That never seemed logical, especially since Jesus was supposed to love everyone and since the Christains have a concept of eternal hell.
  Similarly, we have to remember not to judge one another for believing or not believing that a particular being/emanation is a Buddha.  I have no evidence by any actions of his holiness DL that he is a Buddha named Chenresig; he has banned my main practice and caused suffering; he has helped divide the Kagyus.  If I saw him already as a Buddha, I could perhaps mantain view, but only if his actions were really those of the Buddha.  I never had a view like that; others do, and that is fine.  Everyone is entitled to believe what they believe.

[Matibhadra]

Hi dsiluvu, you say

however on the hind side, you got to appreciate the growth that Dorje Shugden has become even more so popular and famous because of the ban.

This is an often repeated assertion, which I find extremely doubtful and unrealistic. I understand that the growth of the practice of Dorje Shugden, before and after the ban, is the result of its cause, the good qualities and the tireless work of the outstanding lamas faithful to their lineage, and that it has happened despite the ban, not because of it.

Otherwise, the ban has just disrupted monasteries and Dharma centers, causing schism within the Sangha and putting thousands of followers of Dorje Shugden lamas against their own lamas and lineage, and caused division and untold suffering among Tibetans inside and outside China -- nothing to rejoice on and a very sad state of affairs.

There is always 2 perspective to everything although I am not agreeing the Ban is good in any way.

The only positive thing I can think about the ban is that it, together with its causes, can be destroyed.

And foremost, among such causes to be destroyed, I believe, is the fraudulent mythology empowering its perpetrator the Dalai -- or, as WisdomBeing so felicitously put it, the new clothes of the emperor.

Now, if even the people who are somehow affected by the ban remain blind to the fact that the emperor has no clothes (or that the Dalai is just a criminal puppet), and that the weavers of such clothes (the Western mass media organized propaganda sanctifying the criminal) are just defrauders, how could the cause of the ban, the fraudulent mythology, be ever destroyed?

The only good that came out of this is probably the fact that China kind of encourages and has no qualms in supporting, refurbishing and acknowledging Dorje Shugden monasteries and Lamas in Tibet itself.

I think that China will encourage and support any monastery or lama who refuses to be used as a separatist puppet by foreign powers aiming at bringing chaos and division to the country through self-immolations, riots, and the like. Therefore, even China's support to Dorje Shugden lamas and monasteries does not have to be seen as a result of the ban.

But I guess there will not really be full freedom of practice unless something huge happens like the Dalai Lama forsake the ban, officially announced that it is no longer legit or when China says starts promoting it BIG time and from there flows out to the world.

The Dalai will forsake the ban, as soon as the enough people realize that the emperor has no clothes.

Wonder why does the Dalai Lama still wishes to return to China, knowing fully that He will probably have to stay silence and his power dissolves once He is under the Chinese Govt. He will have no say there yet still He wishes to return to Tibet. What will happen to the ban then?, except dissolve in to emptiness is what I think.

As a good puppet, the Dalai wishes to return to China in order to bring chaos and division to the country, including though religious persecution, ultimately delivering it into the hands of his bosses, the Western bankster-owned imperialistic powers, in precisely the same way that his predecessor, the 13th Dalai Puppet, already gave a huge chunk of Tibet to the British (South Tibet, now Arunachal Pradesh in India).

The Dalai's religious persecution against practitioners of Dorje Shugden outside China (which affects countless monasteries and families inside China as well) is just a small sample of the wholesale inquisitorial bloody witch-hunting he would promote once inside China, with the full support of the Western imperialistic powers and the Western war propaganda press, which would describe such horrendous deeds in a most favorable way as the “actions of a holy being” (Chenrezig, remember?).

[DharmaSpace]

The ban has poisoned the hearts and minds of Tibetans.

Tibetans once don't even use the word 'enemy' but now DS practitioners the enemy is at the tip of the tongue for many fanatical Tibetans. It is a corruption of the values of Tibetan is something that the ban gave birth to.

It is cultural genocide when u change one culture to one that is totally foreign, what else but the ban brought about such a thing. CTA is practicing religious and cultural genocide of the highest order, their genocide seeks to remove any traces of Dorje Shugden from its culture and people. It is a genocide that does not kill the people, but kills their spiritual path, as once you break your samaya with your guru who gave you the practice what chance do you have to progress spiritually. You have a lot of spiritually stunted practitioners. 

The ban is like the small pox being introduced by the Spaniards and Europeans when they first arrived at the new world. How else did they colonise the Americas so easily. The Spaniards as they walked through the Aztec cities the decomposing bodies of the Aztec warriors were littering the streets, due to small pox.

[icy]

The Shugden ban is such a huge schism orchestrated without any logic but with much success to the bewilderment of everyone.  Berzerk buddhists on a frenzy condoning the Shugden ban have gone physchotic creating great division and ostracsing their own fellow refugees on the soil of their host country.  Such is the absurdity in the midst of their struggle to gain greater autonomy of self rule in their home country.   

Do we know what is the retribution of causing a hideous crime in creating schism within the sangha community?

[lotus1]

I am very sad when I first get to know about the Shugden’s ban too. I just could not believe how this schism happened in the Tibetan community. Besides, this ban is also impacting and splitting the Buddhist community too. Buddhism always taught us to be loving, compassion and develop wisdom. Why Buddhism teaches us to be kind to all sentient beings, including ghost and hell beings but the ban is causing so much pains and sufferings to the Shugden’s practitioners due to the schism?? Not logical at all…..

[Manjushri]

An icon for world peace, togetherness, unity and compassion. But His Holiness's very one decision in banning Dorje Shugden has brought about and caused everything but all that he embodies amongst his people. There is no unity within pro and anti Dorje Shugden camps, there is no kindness, no compassion, no love, no peace. How can one promote all that to the world, but can not bring the one most fundamental thing -harmony between his people. How can Tibet rise, and regain their identity back together when there is such a huge division between them? And that huge division is based on an illogical decision which has obviously been proven unjust and contradictory. China has been and is rising.. their hold on Tibet is only going to tighten, and they have embraced Dorje Shugden with open arms. Does the CTA not realise that they are really going no where at all?

 

[dondrup]

Yes it is unthinkable that the Tibetans are separated by a holy practice that has been practised by them for so many centuries. Can all the pains, sufferings, inconveniences, separations, lost, discrimination, disappointments, hardships, hatred, and etc experienced by Tibetans be justified by the actions of Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) and HH Dalai Lama (HHDL)?

All these happened because of HHDL's  and CTA's ban on Buddha Dorje Shugden! Dorje Shugden must be 'very disappointed' with this! How could your faith for a Buddha suddenly become zero? It only shows your level of practice! Is your faith false? Your guru devotion is questionable too! How very ignorant you are!
I am referring to those detractors of Dorje Shugden practice.

[Matibhadra]

How could your faith for a Buddha suddenly become zero?

Buddha? The Dalai does not care about Buddhas!

The Dalai cares about his boss, mentor and root guru, the Jewish speculator and convicted criminal George Soros, known for “obfuscating [his own] global criminal activity with the cause of 'human rights'”, that is, supporting puppets such as the Dalai, and ultimately serving the neo-colonialist purposes of Western imperialists -- the very same scum harassing and dividing Tibet, and mass murdering Tibetans, since at least the times of the 13th Dalai Puppet.