Dalai Lama accused of seeking 'Tibet independence'

[icy]

The Dalai Lama's so-called high-level autonomy of Tibet is in essence "Tibet independence in two steps", said Zhu Weiqun, chairman of the Ethnic and Religious Affairs Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference - China's top political advisory body - during a visit to Europe on Thursday.

He paid the visit to observe how European countries deal with religious issues and to introduce China's policies on religion and autonomy. Brussels was his first stop.

Recently, the Dalai Lama visited the United States and Mexico to promote his so-called high-level autonomy of Tibet. Zhu said that the Dalai Lama's demand is a breach of China's regional ethnic autonomy law and against the interests of the Chinese people. "We cannot allow it to happen in China," he said.

Zhu said the Dalai Lama once announced in India that his so-called high-level autonomy is a realistic goal for members of the Tibetan ethnic group people.

"In the fundamental sense, 'high-level autonomy' means Tibet's independence. It is separated into two steps. The first step is so-called autonomy. The second one is actual independence," Zhu explained. In China, autonomy law and policy are always consistent and there is no such saying as "high-level autonomy" or "low-level autonomy", he added.

Therefore, Zhu said, the Dalai Lama wants to practice a different "regional autonomy". His so-called high-level autonomy is against China's autonomy system and does nothing but insert secessionist elements into China's regional ethnic autonomy law, he added.

"It's totally separatism and we cannot allow it," Zhu said.

Secession will not bring Tibetan people a better life and stable economy, Zhu stressed. Without a sound foundation of a political environment, the economy and trade cannot have a solid footing. There are many religions in China. In the past, China has handled religious affairs very well, he added.

"The Dalai Lama's recent moves have not affected Tibet's economic growth," he said.

The region's gross domestic product grew 13 percent year-on-year in 2012, marking the 20th consecutive year of double-digit growth.

In contrast to the serfdom and poverty in the past in Tibet, disposable income of residents in Tibet grew 17 percent in 2012, achieving the 10th year of double-digit growth.

Zhu called for people in Europe to better understand China's religious and autonomy policies. "Given the difference between Europe and China, Beijing has to choose its own path," he said.

[Matibhadra]

How unfair it is to say that the Dalai Lama wants the independence of Tibet!

Everybody knows that, as a Western puppet, what he and his entourage of greedy feudal lords ultimately want is not at all independence, but rather to make of Tibet a fully dependent political and economic colony of Western powers, borrowing money from Western banksters, drowning Tibet in debts, signing a ruinous “free-trade” agreement with US and European Union, and, of course, joining NATO to send young Tibetans to die in any of the worldwide US wars against humanity.

[Blueupali]

How unfair it is to say that the Dalai Lama wants the independence of Tibet!

Right, so I don't think that China has much to fear that the Dalai Lama is actually seeking independence in Tibet;
Here is a link to one of the many posts about how the Dalai Lama has not historically sought independence in Tibet:
http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=203

There is also an e-book available with much on this topic available from the following site:
http://falsedalailama.com/

[Matibhadra]

Thanks Blueupali for the valuable links.

Indeed, even going back to the “great” 5th Dalai Lama (and even more to the Desi before him), it is pretty clear that his main strategy was to establish his own absolute power within Tibet, on the basis of placing Tibet under the vassalage of the most bloodthirsty currently available Mongolian butcher.

The “great” 13th Dalai Lama apparently tried the same, but now looking westwards for British colonialists, who would keep him in power as the local tyrant, in exchange for military, economic and political vassalage, plus of course a handsome chunk of Tibet, which he joyfully gave (South Tibet, Tawang, also known as Arunachal Pradesh) to the British Rothschild empire.

The 14th Dalai Lama, in the footsteps of his predecessor in the office, visibly dedicates his life to  establish his own tyrannical rule over Tibet, on the basis of placing it under US economic, political and military vassalage and exploitation, which puts him in the company of criminal puppets such as Reza Pahlavi, Suharto, Pinochet, assorted Latin American dictators and Arabic butchers (also know as “kings”), Mubaraks and so forth.

[Blueupali]

So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.
  So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine.  If he can be a puppet for China, fine.
  So, I always think that if the Dalai Lama is really a Buddha, and I really have no idea, then he is demonstrating what not to do: in this case what not to do is clearly not to mix religion and politics.
  He also demonstrates clearly the issues that Buddha warned about with dogmatism.  So, if we pick a guy, and say, that guys is god, Buddha, whatever, and therefore, no matter what, that guy can do no wrong, then obviously we are creating the causes for dogmatism.
  So we could see this as a warning about things to come.  Both the U.S. and China have been involved in the politics of Tibetans; the mixing of politics and religion under the auspices of the office of the Dalai Lama from the time of the 5th Dalai Lama warns us not to blindly follow the leader.  The U.S. has its interests, China has its interests; if we are interested in dharma we need to free the political sphere from the religious one.
  Shamar Rinpoche gives some ideas about how this could work in his book "Toward a Transparent Democracy," available as an e-book on lulu.com.  Some of what he says I am sure is more for Himalyan countries, and at any rate, I know that Rinpoche always welcomes debate and logic.  He does advocate for the separation of religion and state, as do most people in modern history.  And freedom of religion:).

 

[Blueupali]

Correction:
 Shamar Rinpoche's book is "Creating a Transparent Democracy"

[icy]

The Dalai Lama again said he is seeking autonomy for Tibet


China's new leadership should use 'common sense': Dalai Lama

NEW YORK: China's new leadership should use "common sense" and seek truth from fact, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said here, as he expressed hope for some "indication of change" in approach during Xi Jinping's presidency to bring about harmony and unity in the region.

He gave a public talk yesterday on the 'Virtue of Non- violence' and told a packed theatre of hundreds of followers that he would like to talk with the Chinese government "when the opportunity comes" and stressed that Tibetans are not seeking independence from China but "genuine autonomy".

The public talk by the Tibetan leader capped two days of spiritual discourse which he gave to over 3,000 people in sessions hosted by Hollywood actor Richard Gere's foundation.

Stressing that Tibet's autonomy would be mutually beneficial to Tibetans and the Chinese, the 78-year-old Dalai Lama said he is not seeking a separate Tibet but one which remains within China.

"The middle way is in everybody's interest," he said, referring to his model of Tibetan autonomy which would be on the lines of a Hong Kong or Macau, which have been given political and economic autonomy.

"We want modernised Tibet. Give us meaningful autonomy so that we can carry preservation of Tibet's culture, language and tradition...Preserving Tibet-Buddhist culture is also in the interest of Chinese Buddhists," he said, adding that preservation of Tibetan ecology is in the interest of not only Tibetans but China, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

He added that Tibetans across the world, including in India and the US, have been demanding "complete independence" but do not know how to achieve it.

"We have to be realistic, seek truth from fact." He said the regime of Jinping's predecessor Hu Jintao focussed on a "good idea" of promoting harmonious society but use of censorship and force by the regime was a "wrong method" and only brought more fear in the hearts of people.

"The new leadership (in China) should use common sense and seek truth from fact. Policy of the new leadership should be based on seeking truth from fact," he said, adding that this will help in creating harmonious and united society.

The Dalai Lama said he is "hopeful" that "there is possibility of some indication of change" that the new leadership in China will focus on harmony and unity.

He said that harmony is very essential in a country like China which has a huge population and many ethnic groups.

The Tibetan leader said events of the past like the Tiananmen Square protests created "resentment" among the people and added that harmony is related to trust, which can be build through respect and dialogue.

He said truthfulness and transparency are very important for building trust.

"If you bring more security personnel and censorship, then more fear will come. Fear and trust cannot go together."

He said he is still waiting for an opportunity to return to his homeland and undertake pilgrimage.

"My desire (to return to his homeland) is always there." When asked what advice he would give to his successor, the Dalai Lama laughed and said, "whether there is a 15th Dalai Lama or not nobody knows. If 15th Dalai Lama comes, (it means) I am no longer there."

He added that his advice would be that his successor should focus on his studies.

"When I was young I did not pay much attention to studies. I was too lazy. I still regret that," he said.

[Matibhadra]

So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.

If so, he really wants the West, and not at all China, because China just offers him the full freedom to be a religious leader, but not to exert power as a terrorist foreign agent.

So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine.  If he can be a puppet for China, fine.

In the capacity of a mere religious leader he could hardly be a puppet. Therefore the possibility of being a puppet for China is just illogical.

Both the U.S. and China have been involved in the politics of Tibetans

China is way less involved in the politics of the Tibetans than the US is involved in the politics of the Cherokee, Sioux or Apache, but brainwashed Americans try to see in other countries the faults of their own.

He [Shamar Rinpoche] does advocate for the separation of religion and state, as do most people in modern history.  And freedom of religion:).

I guess Shamar Rinpoche does not include the freedom of acting as an agent of a foreign power in order to promote terrorism in the country in the concept of “freedom of religion”.

[Matibhadra]

He [the Dalai Lama] said truthfulness and transparency are very important for building trust.

So true. That's why he so much avoids truthfulness and transparency.

[Blueupali]

So, I don't think the Dalai Lama really wants the west or China, or really has any agenda, other than his remaining in as much of power as possible.

If so, he really wants the West, and not at all China, because China just offers him the full freedom to be a religious leader, but not to exert power as a terrorist foreign agent.

So if he can be a puppet for the west, fine.  If he can be a puppet for China, fine.

In the capacity of a mere religious leader he could hardly be a puppet. Therefore the possibility of being a puppet for China is just illogical.

I really think it's possible that since people have mixed religion and state for so long over there, and since we have the misuse of tantra with the Kalachakra initiations, we could see a puppet religious guy wield power in Tibet, which is why China was so interested in backing its own Karmapa.  To curry favor, and also to help destabilize the Kagyus, the Dalai Lama, as Gelugpa governments have often done since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, went for another sect, this time the Kagyus.  (In fact, they often go for the Kagyus).  I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama. 
  So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually.  It's harder to be in control in a democracy, unless you are an American bank:).

[Blueupali]

The Dalai Lama again said he is seeking autonomy for Tibet


China's new leadership should use 'common sense': Dalai Lama

NEW YORK: China's new leadership should use "common sense" and seek truth from fact, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has said here, as he expressed hope for some "indication of change" in approach during Xi Jinping's presidency to bring about harmony and unity in the region.

He gave a public talk yesterday on the 'Virtue of Non- violence' and told a packed theatre of hundreds of followers that he would like to talk with the Chinese government "when the opportunity comes" and stressed that Tibetans are not seeking independence from China but "genuine autonomy".

I hope people will notice what he is saying and stop self-immolating.  I wish they would stop self-immolating anyway, but their leader is, again, not asking for independence, so if that is what they want by self-immolating they will not get it anyway....

"We have to be realistic, seek truth from fact." He said the regime of Jinping's predecessor Hu Jintao focussed on a "good idea" of promoting harmonious society but use of censorship and force by the regime was a "wrong method" and only brought more fear in the hearts of people.

If censorship and force are a 'wrong method' then why does the Dalai Lama himself constantly advocate for the censorship of the Shugden practice, the silencing of the voice of the Shugden people and why do people have to go around like donkies saying 'he is Chenrezig he is Chenrezig.  He can do no wrong?" 

He added that his advice would be that his successor should focus on his studies.

Well, he helped pick China's Karmapa, so I guess the idea is that the China Karmapa will be the puppet, the 15th Dalai lama will study?  Let us pray he can take up the Shugden practice in his old age.... this should help Buddhism be free from politics, which might help all the lamas get to teach and study, rather than politiking around.

[Matibhadra]

I really think it's possible that since people have mixed religion and state for so long over there, and since we have the misuse of tantra with the Kalachakra initiations, we could see a puppet religious guy wield power in Tibet, which is why China was so interested in backing its own Karmapa.

Well, the nature of a puppet is to look for a master, as the 5th, the 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas together with their wicked entourages of feudal slave-owners have done through the centuries.

And the only reason why they do not go for a much more handy relationship with the  Chinese is that the Chinese do not offer them the possibility of becoming puppet tyrants enslaving their own people, something the Western bankster regimes, notoriously the US, do.

Which brings us to another related point: that going along with the Chinese (that which you wanted to describe as becoming a “Chinese puppet”) is not an option for Dalai Lama and entourage, specially as long as they find much more promising masters in the West.

To curry favor, and also to help destabilize the Kagyus, the Dalai Lama, as Gelugpa governments have often done since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, went for another sect, this time the Kagyus.  (In fact, they often go for the Kagyus).

I would say, mainly in order to divide and weaken the Kagyupas, and, of course, to get the favor of the faction he supports.

But not that the Dalai Lama is not currying favor with other sects, as he does, specially with the Nyingma, since the 5th.

By the way (and despite the noble attitude of Penor Rinpoche and possibly other Nyingma lamas), the very ban of Dorje Shugden seems to be related to a demand from some Nyingma quarters, which would refuse to offer long life pujas to the Dalai Lama (to support him politically, that is) until the ban was enforced.

I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama.

I think that unfortunately it is the other way round, the Dalai Lama being illegitimately in charge of, or putting his nose in, Gelugpa affairs.

So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually.

If so, please show where is the “democracy” in Western puppet states and bloodthirsty medieval tirannies such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kwait, Egypt and many many others, all of them lavishly supported, both economically and politically, by Western “democracies”, specially US and UK?

Also, there are many other Western-supported pseudo-democracies, with such a fake electoral process that in end it is always the international banksters and their local associates making the day. What is the pseudo-democratic CTA after all?

In other words, the “democracy” farce is hardly an impediment for the establishment of a local US-supported tyranny. Actually, the “democratic” facade is just an ingredient allowing for such spurious regimes, and giving them an air of legitimacy, so that the assault against the people keeps going on.

It's harder to be in control in a democracy, unless you are an American bank:).

Rather the other way round: no regime is more easily manipulated by banksters, mainly through corruption and the private control of mass media, than a so-called “electoral democracy”. Just look at the sad state of the US itself.

[icy]

Dalai Lama aims to rock Tibet's foundation: white paper

BEIJING, Oct. 22 (Xinhua) -- The true aim of the 14th Dalai Lama and his clique in exile is to rock the systemic foundations that have ensured the development and progress of Tibet, says a white paper issued on Tuesday.

The Dalai Lama and his clique are conducting separatist activities for a long time to sabotage Tibet's development and stability, and it aims to "overthrow the socialist system and the system of regional ethnic autonomy that is practiced in Tibet," says the white paper "Development and Progress of Tibet" issued by the Information Office of the State Council.

After the failure of their armed rebellion in 1959, they fled abroad and began to harass China's borders for years. In recent years, they have put forward the so-called concepts of "Greater Tibet" and "a high degree of autonomy," which in fact go against China's actual conditions, and violate the Constitution and relevant laws, it says.

"The development and changes in Tibet are obvious to everyone. Any fair-minded person would be filled with amazement, and anyone who cares about Tibet will be pleased to see all this," it added.

However, a handful of people just turn a blind eye to the facts, and attack and deny Tibet's development path and modernization drive that people of all ethnic groups strive for, says the white paper.

"There are some others in the world who intentionally distort the past and present of Tibet due to their ideological bias or out of consideration for their self interests. They created a 'Shangri-La' myth, wishing to keep Tibet in a backward primitive state forever," it says.

The development and progress of Tibet over the past 60 years has proved that the people in Tibet and the people of the rest of the world have equal right to enjoy the achievements of modern civilization, to improve the quality of life, and to choose their own way of life, the white paper says.

[Matibhadra]

What a sad state of affairs!

While other lamas of all lineages strive to maintain and spread their precious lineages, inside Tibetan areas and outside them, in China and abroad, with little to no consideration for mundane concerns, thus upholding the teachings of the Buddha and benefitting innumerable sentient beings without any bias or discrimination, this disgraceful Gelugpa tulku cannot think of anything except for power and territory, for himself and for a bunch of greedy aristochrats, unhappy to see their former lands generously distributed among their ex-slaves!

What a contrast with the noble example set by true masters such as Lord Buddha and Lord Atisha who, although born as princes with immense power, did not hesitate to give up everything in order to show to others the path to enlightenment!

What a shame! What a disgrace to the Buddha's lineage!

[Blueupali]

[quote author=jspitanga link=topic=4370.msg48164#msg48

But not that the Dalai Lama is not currying favor with other sects, as he does, specially with the Nyingma, since the 5th.

By the way (and despite the noble attitude of Penor Rinpoche and possibly other Nyingma lamas), the very ban of Dorje Shugden seems to be related to a demand from some Nyingma quarters, which would refuse to offer long life pujas to the Dalai Lama (to support him politically, that is) until the ban was enforced.

Do you have a reference for this?  I am just curious.  I would imagine that there was some political nonsense going on there as well; I would doubt the Nyingmas were worried about this deity until it became politically helpful to do so. 

I think most Gelugpas are not like this, but the politicky ones are, and the Gelugpas have been in charge in the office of the Dalai Lama.

I think that unfortunately it is the other way round, the Dalai Lama being illegitimately in charge of, or putting his nose in, Gelugpa affairs.

Point taken:).  Though a lot of Gelugpas are good enough actors that I sometimes forget they didn't all want religion and politics mixed; I have always felt sorry for Gelugpas that they have to deal with the god-king in their sect.  I have to also admit to have very strong imprints of fear when it comes to pandits hats; I sincerely love Je Tsongkapa but only when I see a Dorje Shugden somewhere near his statue. 

So the Dalai Lama doesn't really want what the west wants--- because he's had to have an actual democracy, at least eventually.

If so, please show where is the “democracy” in Western puppet states and bloodthirsty medieval tyrannies such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kwait, Egypt and many many others, all of them lavishly supported, both economically and politically, by Western “democracies”, specially US and UK?

Also, there are many other Western-supported pseudo-democracies, with such a fake electoral process that in end it is always the international banksters and their local associates making the day. What is the pseudo-democratic CTA after all?

In other words, the “democracy” farce is hardly an impediment for the establishment of a local US-supported tyranny.
[/quote]

It may be a democracy farce, but they have to have some attempt at it looking something like a democracy at some point.  Otherwise it would be difficult to continue the mythology associated with manifest destiny (an American concept that everyone needs to be like the U.S. and that the U.S. should spread its ideology around the world.  Similar to what China is allegedly doing with communism, only with capitalist-based democracy).  So I've never thought real democracy is possible with capitalism, since obviously one big way to control people is through money.