Protest against Dalai by ISC in New York oct 18th and 19th 2013

[donoharm]

Our root guru is His Holiness Trijang Chocktrul  Rinpoche.   HH Trijang Rinpoche will spread Dorje Shugden all over the world, its just matter of time.  No doubt in our mind HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche will  be lot more successful and famous the current dalai.  Long live His Holiness Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche.


The International Shugden Community (ISC)  demonstrating outside the Beacon Theatre, 2124 Broadway, NYC, where the Dalai Lama is due to appear today. The ISC, which includes members of the Tibetan exile community, wants the Dalai Lama to stop inciting fear and division within Tibet.

"To the Western world, the Dalai Lama talks about human rights and religious harmony. But he encourages Tibetans around the world to tyrannize innocent, peaceful people solely because of their religious choices," said Ah Dhar, a Tibetan exile & ISC member. "We want him to stop harming his own people and start respecting the international human rights laws he pretends to represent."

The Dalai Lama has now taken his opposition to a popular and ancient Buddhist practice, the worship of the enlightened Deity Dorje Shugden, into Tibet. He has incited people within Tibet to rise up against these sincere Buddhist practitioners. In a campaign reminiscent of The Cultural Revolution, Tibetans are being pitted against Tibetans. Innocent people are experiencing public humiliation, persecution, and denial of basic human rights, simply because of their religion.

"Millions of people are suffering at the hands the Dalai Lama's followers. They blindly believe everything the Dalai Lama says, and the Dalai Lama says to destroy all connection with Shugden practitioners," said Ah Dhar. "The Dalai Lama is responsible for this suffering. One word from the Dalai Lama and this apartheid within the Tibetan community would stop. But, instead, the Dalai Lama only continues to encourage hatred and fear."

The ISC, and the Tibetan community it represents, will stand up to the Dalai Lama in a series of demonstrations during the Dalai Lama's tour of North America this month. They want the world to pay attention. And they want peace and harmony in their community. Only the Dalai Lama, who is renowned throughout the world for his apparent commitment to peace, has the power to bring peace to his own community. The ISC wants the world to join them in asking the Dalai Lama "why won't you solve this problem?"

[icy]

What an irony - it was reported the Dalai Lama is in New York spreading inter-religious harmony.  I wonder what will Dalai Lama say to the international community now.  The ISC is requesting the Dalai Lama to solve religious harmony at home.  It is within the Dalai Lama's power to free Dorje Shugden. 

[Blueupali]

It's not just at home, and it's not just Tibetans that need this matter resolved; though Tibetans have of course born the brunt of the ban and the violence, there have been western practitioners that also received death threats in the U.S (NKT ones, for example).  Western people have received death threats for publishing the Tibetan Exile Government's books. [Admin: Errant source attribution has been removed, as per Blueupali's request]
  So, I feel terrible for the violence against the Tibetans, and I feel that it is really terrible since they are people in exile trying to deal with these issues without a standard government, and as guests in India and neighboring countries.  It is imperative that the more fanatical Dalai Lama followers stop their nonsense.
  Western people though are also in danger, since they are making death threats to some of our practitioners; also travelling in India, even to holy sites like Bodh Gaya can become problematic; the problem isn't just that the fanatical and political followers are just against Shugden practitioners; basically they are just against anyone who doesn't listen to the Dalai lama above all other people.  So, even western people have to be careful while travelling to Buddha's holy sites, whether they do the Shugden practice or whether they are affiliated with anyone else that wants to maintain their own lineage.  Basically, the Shugden community is the most vilified by the Dalai Lama, so we have the most to fear from his more fanatical followers.
  Dorje Shugden is a full Buddha and already free; it is within the Dalai Lama's power to free Shugden practitioners worldwide from persecution at the hands of his (the Dalai Lama's) followers; he just has to sincerely ask his own followers to stop; he just has to lift the apartheid, he just has to practice what he preaches when it comes to the teachings of Buddha.

 

[WisdomBeing]

i have not heard of the ISC prior to reading this post. Is this a new Dorje Shugden organization or an evolution of the Western Shugden Society? Or is it even an official organization? I am just curious. Was any of the protests covered by the mainstream media also?

It is quite amazing how the mainstream media is able to ignore the injustice that the Dalai Lama's edict has wreaked on Dorje Shugden practitioners - in and out of Tibet. The fanaticism mentioned earlier is pure extremism. We condemn islamic extremism, yet we condone buddhist extremism? Just because it is sanctioned by the Nobel Prize winner HH the Dalai Lama? Something is rotten in the state of Nirvana. Yet nobody is acknowledging it in the world at large. It also reflects on our media who seem to be blinded by delusions of grandeur. Oh well.

HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche will be speaking out more and more as he gets older. Let's hope he manages to capture the world's attention.

[Q]

Well, the CTA themselves do not seem to have a mind of their own... the way things run in their parliament, it would be as if the Dalai Lama's office are the ones that make the policies for Tibetans in exile, if that's the case, what's the point of having CTA? Just to show the world that they have a 'government' but it's function as a puppet?

The very fact that the CTA has FAILED to separate state and religion has already indicated their definite failure as a government, if they can't even do something as simple as this, then they don't have to look forward to more difficult tasks like gaining freedom for their country. For all you know, the Dalai Lama has set up a plan to train the people of CTA to learn how to manage a government all by themselves without always exploiting the Dalai Lama's name for their own benefit or attempt to control the Tibetans. Too bad they are failing to do so.

As long as they do not get their act together, Tibet will never get the independence (or autonomy? see they can't even decide their mission and vision) that they want. The ban on Dorje Shugden is just a play card, the actual people that are holding them back from independence are actually themselves!

The CTA themselves are going all out to instigate fights and hate towards China. Why would a government website, intentionally report new like this: http://tibet.net/2013/10/17/mother-of-3-arrested-for-circulating-pictures-of-his-holiness-the-dalai-lama/

If such news is not to encourage hate between Tibetans and the Chinese, I wonder what's that called... A mother of 3, who's name is Kelsang... a 'nobody' (sorry to say) who's name is not even worth mentioning in full, ends up in the OFFICIAL WEBSITE for Tibetans... gee they must have ran out of news to put on their website.

[Blueupali]

It's not just at home, and it's not just Tibetans that need this matter resolved; though Tibetans have of course born the brunt of the ban and the violence, there have been western practitioners that also received death threats in the U.S (NKT ones, for example). Western people have received death threats for publishing the Tibetan Exile Government's books. (please see the e-book at www.http://falsedalailama.com/ (its in PDF format--- so I couldn't work out the pages, but toward the last 20 percent of the book).
  So, I feel terrible for the violence against the Tibetans, and I feel that it is really terrible since they are people in exile trying to deal with these issues without a standard government, and as guests in India and neighboring countries.  It is imperative that the more fanatical Dalai Lama followers stop their nonsense.
  Western people though are also in danger, since they are making death threats to some of our practitioners; also travelling in India, even to holy sites like Bodh Gaya can become problematic; the problem isn't just that the fanatical and political followers are just against Shugden practitioners; basically they are just against anyone who doesn't listen to the Dalai lama above all other people.  So, even western people have to be careful while travelling to Buddha's holy sites, whether they do the Shugden practice or whether they are affiliated with anyone else that wants to maintain their own lineage.  Basically, the Shugden community is the most vilified by the Dalai Lama, so we have the most to fear from his more fanatical followers.
  Dorje Shugden is a full Buddha and already free; it is within the Dalai Lama's power to free Shugden practitioners worldwide from persecution at the hands of his (the Dalai Lama's) followers; he just has to sincerely ask his own followers to stop; he just has to lift the apartheid, he just has to practice what he preaches when it comes to the teachings of Buddha.

 

Actually, what this looked like it said when I hit 'post' was that we have Western people (NKT ones) who received death threats from doing the Shugden practice.  This was not reported in the book.  I don't know what happened with the computers.  Thanks everybody.

[WisdomBeing]

Well, the CTA themselves do not seem to have a mind of their own... the way things run in their parliament, it would be as if the Dalai Lama's office are the ones that make the policies for Tibetans in exile, if that's the case, what's the point of having CTA? Just to show the world that they have a 'government' but it's function as a puppet?

The very fact that the CTA has FAILED to separate state and religion has already indicated their definite failure as a government, if they can't even do something as simple as this, then they don't have to look forward to more difficult tasks like gaining freedom for their country. For all you know, the Dalai Lama has set up a plan to train the people of CTA to learn how to manage a government all by themselves without always exploiting the Dalai Lama's name for their own benefit or attempt to control the Tibetans. Too bad they are failing to do so.

As long as they do not get their act together, Tibet will never get the independence (or autonomy? see they can't even decide their mission and vision) that they want. The ban on Dorje Shugden is just a play card, the actual people that are holding them back from independence are actually themselves!

The CTA themselves are going all out to instigate fights and hate towards China. Why would a government website, intentionally report new like this: http://tibet.net/2013/10/17/mother-of-3-arrested-for-circulating-pictures-of-his-holiness-the-dalai-lama/

If such news is not to encourage hate between Tibetans and the Chinese, I wonder what's that called... A mother of 3, who's name is Kelsang... a 'nobody' (sorry to say) who's name is not even worth mentioning in full, ends up in the OFFICIAL WEBSITE for Tibetans... gee they must have ran out of news to put on their website.

Dear Q

The CTA is exactly a failure and it was doomed to be a failure.

1. the CTA has no experience running a government. Its leader, Dr Lobsang Sangay, was a Harvard fellow with no political experience. I guess having a Harvard qualification is powerful for one's CV, but i did not realize that it was so powerful as to get one elected into being the head of a government.

2. the CTA technically is no longer a government in exile but an administration. This distinction is important because it means that the CTA has less power than a government, although I think they still refer to the cabinet and the ministers, but technically, they cannot be so if they are only an administrative body? For example, Dr Lobsang Sangay is not the Kalon Tripa (the Prime Minister), which Dr Samdhong Rinpoche was. Dr Lobsang Sangay is now the Sikyong, which is the head of the CTA.

3. the toothless tiger that the CTA is is proven by the lack of action on the Dorje Shugden ban. If the CTA is really for the Tibetans in the secular sense, then they would not discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners for secular matters. Fine if the Dalai Lama does not want Dorje Shugden practitioners at his teachings, that is his spiritual prerogative. However, how can any governing administration, claiming to look after all Tibetans, stop certain Tibetans from getting groceries, from going to school, from getting travel papers etc. If that is not apartheid, i don't know what is.

As long as the CTA does not stand up for Dorje Shugden practitioners to live without fear or favor, the CTA will always be a failure.

[vajrastorm]

The ISC(International Shugden Community) are launching a series of demonstrations during the Dalai Lama's tour of North America. They want the world to pay attention to their plight. As Shugden worshippers, they are being subject to much harassment and persecution, public humiliation and a denial of basic human rights; and all in the hands of Dalai Lama followers, who blindly listen and follow the cue of the CTA.

Many feel that the Dalai Lama need only give the command and lift the ban on Shugden practice and tell his followers to leave Shugden practitioners alone. Then there will be peace and harmony; and Dharma will just grow and spread to China and elsewhere, once internal peace within the Tibetan and Tibetan Buddhist communities is established. 

Yet somehow, there appears to me, a deeper reason for HH Dalai Lama's ban on Shugden. A time will come when the ban will be lifted and all will be revealed, especially the reason why the ban had been imposed to cause so much anguish and suffering. I feel it has to do with a compassionate mind that sees and works for the ultimate, the spread and flourishing of the Dharma that will bring peace and benefit to all ultimately. I believe in the big picture, but do not know how it will unfold.

 

[WisdomBeing]

Does anyone know anything about the ISC? I googled but only found this http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/our-cause/public-announcement/ which is entitled "Public Announcement from the International Shugden Community". This posting on the WSS website leads me to assume that the ICS is yet another face of the Western Shugden Society? If it is, why the change of name? What is the difference between WSS and ISC? Hope someone can enlighten me.

[Lineageholder]

I don't know for sure Kate, but the international Shugden Community is more representative than the Western Shugden Society because WSS implies that it is Western Shugden practitioners only - people think it comprises only Geshe Kelsang's students which is not true - the latest wave of protests is being conducted by Tibetans, and at earlier protests in 2008 Tibetans were involved as well, thus 'International' is more accurate.

[dsiluvu]

Oh wow this is interesting news. I was wondering for awhile where did the WSS go after their last 2008 protest and what they've been up to. I am glad to know the change of name from WSS to International Shugden Society (ISC) and I am glad to see that Tibetans themselves are standing up more and more for their rights and beliefs!!!

They are courageous to do so because I can imagine the risk they are taking to speak up against this ridiculous ban on a practice that has been passed down by our lineage Gurus and is the Enlightened Wisdom Buddha Manjushri in wrathful form. It is awfully wrong how a spiritual practice has been twisted and used to serve political agendas and egos. The lies need to be exposed and the truth needs to be told. I can imagine more lives or livelihood of Tibetans who participated in this protest will be threatened by the CTA. If so, it should be posted up and circulated for all to see. Might as well go all the way with it and if anyone's life is taken from this protest, (bless the devoted practitioner for speaking, may he take a good rebirth in the pure lands) it should be immediately publicized and exposed. UN should take a good look and investigate this matter further.

What in today's sane world is there any Govt. who uses religion to tear their own people a part and possibly create blood shed amongst their own. No need to even talk about Buddha dharma being destroyed because they obvious has no respect, belief or the concept of that. So it's true... they create the cause for the Dharma to die from within. These people I do not consider Buddhist. They put a bad image, name on Buddhism world wide. Shouldn't they be arrested for causing such chaos and disharmony?

[psylotripitaka]

Dsiluvu, you wrote: "What in today's sane world is there any Govt. who uses religion to tear their own people a part and possibly create blood shed amongst their own. No need to even talk about Buddha dharma being destroyed because they obvious has no respect, belief or the concept of that. So it's true... they create the cause for the Dharma to die from within. These people I do not consider Buddhist. They put a bad image, name on Buddhism world wide. Shouldn't they be arrested for causing such chaos and disharmony?"

This is a very succinct way of conveying what I wrote in the thread about The Essence of the Controversy a while back. Beautifully put, thank you!

However, your last point about arresting, well, the Dalai Lama essentially, is not really a solution. As I see it, there are two things happening according to two different minds: disharmony according to common conventions of ordinary beings, and skillful means according to the common conventions of Superior Beings. From the former point of view, in our world society it is generally inappropriate to engage vigorously in religious discrimination and abuse human rights. So such things need to be dealt with accordingly. In this instance, though from the latter point of view the Dalai Lama's actions may be considered skillful means, the former view dictates that the ban is totally inappropriate, lacking common sense and valid logical reasoning, contradicts the Dharma, and is harmful, so the appropriate action to take is being taken here at dorjeshugden.com and by the ISC and others to lift the ban by bringing it to the attention of those possessing common sense and loving kindness so that they can somehow enforce or encourage the Dalai Lama to retract his ban. He or his supporters don't need to go to jail, they need to be continually encouraged to develop loving kindness, respect for the BuddhaDharma, and a sense of shame for their damaging actions.