Very disturbing ......

[donoharm]

http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=336

[icy]

All these are truly a violation of human rights and religious freedom, it is utterly, utterly disgusting.  To deny someone the most basic amenity definitely contravenes universally fundamental human rights laws, observed especially in democratic nations like India.  I wonder how it can happen in India.   Religious apartheid on Shugden practitioners is causing schism in the sangha community, sending out the message of this prosecution as undharmic and unBuddhistic.   Buddhism, is a religion that is known for its tolerance, kindness and middle way path but what is happening now?  It certainly reflects poorly on the Government in Exile as primitive and mentally disarray for implementing this prosecution amongst their own people while the Dalai Lama on the world stage is preaching the holy principles of Buddhism and is seen as the peace maker.  Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.

Shame, shame CTA! Lift the ban now and make peace with Dorje Shugden!

[Matibhadra]

Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.

How fanciful. Then it was the CTA forcing poor Dalai Lama to harshly threat monks if they did not give up the Protector practice, is it?

[Blueupali]

All these are truly a violation of human rights and religious freedom, it is utterly, utterly disgusting.  To deny someone the most basic amenity definitely contravenes universally fundamental human rights laws, observed especially in democratic nations like India. I wonder how it can happen in India.   Religious apartheid on Shugden practitioners is causing schism in the sangha community, sending out the message of this prosecution as undharmic and unBuddhistic.   Buddhism, is a religion that is known for its tolerance, kindness and middle way path but what is happening now?  It certainly reflects poorly on the Government in Exile as primitive and mentally disarray for implementing this prosecution amongst their own people while the Dalai Lama on the world stage is preaching the holy principles of Buddhism and is seen as the peace maker.  Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.

Shame, shame CTA! Lift the ban now and make peace with Dorje Shugden!

So, I think I agree that these are a violation of human rights, and utterly disgusting.  So, I think you know, it is clear that the CTA was headed by his holiness Dalai Lama when the ban first went into effect.  He's stepped down but all he has to do is tell them to lift the ban and they would do it.
  I think though, that as a Buddha teaching in reverse, the Dalai lama would be pointing out that we should totally disregard anything he says, because he is a politician.  he is clearly teaching against us following him around like donkies, but in reverse.  So, I personally take his teaching very much to heart and would never listen to him or take a tantric vow with him, as he is giving the appearance of politics.  That's in case he's a Buddha. I can't tell of course, so I continue to do Vajrasattva for him, so he won't get bad karma.

[fruven]

People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..

[Blueupali]

People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans?  Because he actually declared himself that, this life.  Before he was political leader.  Interestingly, upon meeting the west, he was suddenly in charge of everything spiritual as well.
  So, no, he really isn't supposed to be, and most Tibetans I knew tried to avoid him, unless they happen to be with him.  All due respect to those who like the Dalai Lama--- every authentic Buddhist teacher I've met has encouraged and allowed questions--- even questions of whether or not they are right by thier Bodhisattva and tantric vow holding practitioners.
  It is a sad confusion of tantra to think we have to do whatever someone says just because we've been to an empowerment.  This is never what Shakyamuni or Vajradhara had in mind.... they weren't giving excuses to dictators.  Sometimes teachers can give the appearance of being wrong; it is okay to tell authentic teachers that we disagree.

[vajratruth]

People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..

Unfortunately that is not the case. The people did NOT have a choice. The so-called "choice" not to obey the Dalai Lama comes at a considerable cost. For example, if you are a monk and you do not toe the official line to deny your Guru and abandon Dorje Shugden, you will be expelled (like 450 monks from Dokhang Khangtsen who were forced to separate from Ganden Shartse and then went on to found Shar Ganden. See http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/gaden-monks-forced-to-swear-against-dorje-shugden-video/ ). Similar case with Pomra Khangtsen of Sera Monastery who separated and went on to become Serpom. Even senior lamas like Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche received death threats. Kundeling Rinpoche was accused of being a terrorist and had his ladrang seized. The great Gangchen Rinpoche was ridiculed and put on a 'hit list'. I would not call this a genuine free choice.

If you are a lay person then you literally cannot function in the community, cannot attend social gatherings, get sundries and provisions from shops and also receive public welfare such as medical treatment. ( See http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/religious-apartheid-in-tibetan-communities/ )



There was never a choice. The Dalai Lama, the ex Tibetan Prime MinisterSamdhong Rinpoche, the CTA, and even Tibetan Youth Congress decreed a witch hunt and sanctioned an illegal mass persecution of Shugden worshippers. Hardly a choice regardless of what these people may see in public. The CTA and Tibetan leadership have been proven over and over again to lie blatantly and their conscience were seared a long time ago. Therefore it is wise not to listen to what they say but instead look at what they are doing. Why are so many Shugden practitioners in hiding if there was free choice?

The violation of human rights is not the worst assault on the Tibetan people. The most damaging effect of the ban which the CTA/Dalai Lama's office is still enforcing, is the schism they have created within the sangha, the distortion of the Buddha Dharma, the corruption of the sanctity of the Guru-Disciple oath which has preserved the purity of the various lineages for centuries, and the undermining of the Tibetan cause by weakening the base via disharmony.

If the Dalai Lama is truly divorced from politics, then why isn't the CTA making their own decisions? Why is it that the CTA is completely disregarding the majority of the Tibetan people's wish for full Tibetan independence and instead implementing the Dalai Lama's Middle Way? That are many 'whys' but in truth it is an academic discussion. Academic because ultimately you cannot awaken someone who is pretending to be asleep, just like the CTA is pretending to be a democracy.

[Big Uncle]

Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.

How fanciful. Then it was the CTA forcing poor Dalai Lama to harshly threat monks if they did not give up the Protector practice, is it?

Well, true that... I think that opposing CTA is the best bet right now because they are suppose to be democratic governing body and if you care to look in their constitution, they are suppose to be upholding religious freedom. No secular state would function in this hypocritical manner. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and naturally all the power is in their hands. They can easily overwrite the Dalai Lama by relegating the Dorje Shugden ban to the monasteries but in secular affairs, there should be no ban. I think that as long as we keep publicising the truth and how they can make a difference, there would be a bigger chance for them to start the ball rolling for the ban to come down. Don't you think?

[vajrastorm]

How is it that freedom of choice of worship, which is supposed to be enshrined in any democratic constitution, like the Tibetan one, is not being practiced? How is it that CTA doesn't honor the freedom of choice of spiritual practice?

When freedom of choice is denied and suffering results, then even the basic compassion that is the essence of Buddhism is not practiced by the CTA and its supporters.How can ostracism be practiced to the extent of inflicting pain and suffering? Shugden practitioners are being denied entry into shops to buy their daily groceries and necessities. They are not allowed into monasteries, including  Ganden Jangtse, Sera and Drepung, Loseling,Dhokhang Khangtsen, Goman in Bylakuppe and in Southern India.  Even a library in Southern India is denying entry to Shugden worshippers. The list goes on and on.It is sad to see this happen.

[WisdomBeing]

People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..

Are you saying that the Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans?  Because he actually declared himself that, this life.  Before he was political leader.  Interestingly, upon meeting the west, he was suddenly in charge of everything spiritual as well.
  So, no, he really isn't supposed to be, and most Tibetans I knew tried to avoid him, unless they happen to be with him.  All due respect to those who like the Dalai Lama--- every authentic Buddhist teacher I've met has encouraged and allowed questions--- even questions of whether or not they are right by thier Bodhisattva and tantric vow holding practitioners.
  It is a sad confusion of tantra to think we have to do whatever someone says just because we've been to an empowerment.  This is never what Shakyamuni or Vajradhara had in mind.... they weren't giving excuses to dictators.  Sometimes teachers can give the appearance of being wrong; it is okay to tell authentic teachers that we disagree.

This is an interesting point which i didn't know before. Are you saying that the Dalai Lama was NOT the spiritual AND temporal head of Tibet and he was only the temporal? Perhaps it is like how the Queen of England is seen as the head of the Anglican church but in reality she is just a figurehead.  I don't know enough about the history of Tibetan hegemony to be able to comment on this but perhaps if you could expand further on this?

In any case, i do believe that the Dalai Lama would be able to stop the ostracisation of Dorje Shugden practitioners immediately by lifting the ban or at the very least, condemning the ostracisation. He could still say that people should not do this practice, but it is completely unjustifiable to not allow Dorje Shugden practitioners to purchase groceries at certain shops, attend the mainstream monasteries, send their children to school, have travel papers etc. This is completely contradictory to Buddhist compassion, isn't it? I am amazed that this has gone unchallenged by the majority for so many years.

[Matibhadra]

Well, true that... I think that opposing CTA is the best bet right now because they are suppose to be democratic governing body and if you care to look in their constitution, they are suppose to be upholding religious freedom. No secular state would function in this hypocritical manner. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and naturally all the power is in their hands. They can easily overwrite the Dalai Lama by relegating the Dorje Shugden ban to the monasteries but in secular affairs, there should be no ban. I think that as long as we keep publicising the truth and how they can make a difference, there would be a bigger chance for them to start the ball rolling for the ban to come down. Don't you think?

Probably the ban is an essential part of the Western-supported power architecture which keeps both the Dalai Lama *and* the CTA in power.

And probably this Western-supported power architecture (which goes back at least to the 13th Dalai Lama) is what has to go so that there are no more bans.

[brian]

I think the ban more or less had its benefits as well as disadvantages. The main thing is that Dorje Shugden is being practiced in many places of the world and most importantly the mass population in China. Going on about this, the only thing that I would not stand for is the discrimination against the Dorje Shugden practitioners. They are constantly being mistreated and victimised. Shame on the people who condoned such acts to the harmless. Freedom of religion should be promoted to all human beings and not being just a few who has powers.

May the ban be lifted as soon as possible so that people who are under constant threat and harm be freed from their oain and more and more people will get to practice the sacreed practice of Dorje Shugden!

[dondrup]

Tibetans had experienced so much suffering at the time when China conquered Tibet. Tibetans had endured every conceivable pain of  separation of loved ones, lost of homes, lost of livelihood, deaths due to war, lost of wealth, lost of country and so on. Now Tibetans in exile are stateless! Tibetans in China do no have the complete freedom of life as they see fit.

It is really idiotic that Tibetans want to impose further hardships on their own kind just because they practise Dorje Shugden;  a sacred practice that was passed down by highly enlightened Buddhist Masters like Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche!  CTA, and detractors of Dorje Shugden are adding salt to the already swollen wound by imposing the ban on Dorje Shugden!

These signages prohibiting the Shugden followers from entering the premises concerned are totally unacceptable! It is sheer discrimination of the worst kind ever! Where in the scriptures of Buddhism do you find teachings that reject, discriminate, hate, segregate, divide, ex-communicate, deprive and etc the Tibetan Shugden followers? Buddhism taught to accept and love all beings without exception. This ban is implying Shugden followers are the exception and to be excluded from all beings!

Tibetan Shugden followers should enjoy all the rights as accorded by the constitution adopted by the Tibetans' CTA. NO DISCRIMINATION PLEASE!

What comes to mind when the foreign non-Buddhists were to visit these prestigious Gelug monasteries see these signages?

[Gabby Potter]

I believe that His Holiness has His higher purpose on implementing the ban, we may not have enough faith in His Holiness and therefore it's obvious why we can't see His real intention. As long as we continue to speak up and do whatever we should do, things that doesn't violate peace. As time passes by, I believe that our hard work will pay off.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Inflicting pain and suffering for a higher cause?  Personally I don't buy that anymore especially when it had been on going for more than 20 years.

If the CTA and Dalai Lama do practise Buddhism, then it is time to stop.  I rather not speculate on a bigger cause but to find ways to stop this segregation, division and confusion among lay Buddhists.

The time to lift the Ban is now.